(Deja Vu) Palm all over again?

[anon(6078578)]

The device itself will be just fine, maybe with a working OS, but with a resale value lower than 60% of it's current price...at least in EU WP resale prices are very low

For a laugh I remember looking up my Nokia 521, during the time when Windows Phone finally looked like it was going places, on an ecoATM kiosk. This is where you can recycle your phone for cash and it was worth just a few bucks at most lol Admittedly it is a low end phone but even the superior Lumia 640 is still valued at a few bucks.

Interestingly it says there is no market value for the Lumia 950 which would normally cause me to chuckle but of course it's likely due to low volume there isn't enough data for them to ascertain this at the moment.

 

[pjhenry1216]

True. This is what I personally have been doing for more five years now. Unlike a lot of the others though, I have moved on in the meantime. How long do we keep saying this? "What it can be" has been imminent many times already in the last five years. I live and breathe Microsoft in my work, but that doesn't mean I jump all over everything that comes down the pike.

I think a couple things are happening with Windows Phone's apologists; either they now have Stockholm Syndrome, or their hatred of the alternatives is strong enough to keep them here.

Ok, I view Nadella's Microsoft as a new start. Ballmer had different ideas. Nadella took those ideas and made them better. I'm not counting the full 5 years. The vision Microsoft of 2011 had is vastly different than now. I view it more as I've been waiting two years since they started pitching a vision that I find to be a shift in how people will interact with computers of all sizes. The progress I've seen over those two years is admittedly slow, but its going up against phones that have had a consistent vision for 7 or 8 years now. Microsoft didn't have that and yes, that is Microsoft's fault. So, they're at a disadvantage of 5 or 6 years of development. Everyone keeps complaining when every single feature they want isn't addressed overnight when it took years before those features showed up on other phones. Is it acceptable that this hurts them in the market? Yes, that's how capitalism works. it doesn't care you're at a disadvantage. Is it ok to be upset that they don't have an OS that is on par with every other phone in the market? Only if you're upset because you realize its not happening due to a very late start. If you're upset because you think they're not fast enough or you figure they must be ignoring everyone, well that's just ignorance. It was Microsoft of the past that screwed all of us over. The Microsoft of now is really trying to fix that and is doing so at a very realistic pace. Those of us that are being patient realize why the wait is taking this long. We realize what downfalls were there. But you're not a fan if you don't stick with them even during their low points. Just as no one likes someone who's "favorite" team is simply whoever won the Super Bowl, World Series, Finals, etc. of the previous season... they realize a true fan is someone who will stick with the team even when they're not doing well but still can tell that the team is trying. So it's not that we'll just get whatever Microsoft sells. It's that we're fans of Microsoft because we like where they are going and when they release these products, we get them because that is how we can materially support them in their efforts. In fact, not only that, but because we like the path they are on, we'll more than likely agree with the products they release because they'll be on point with what we want. Some of the time, the products are direct results of them listening to us. Are we fanboys/girls? Probably. But we don't just do it because we like the logo.

 

[theefman]

I think a couple things are happening with Windows Phone's apologists; either they now have Stockholm Syndrome, or their hatred of the alternatives is strong enough to keep them here.

My vote goes for Stockholm Syndrome..... :evil:

 

[tgp]

Just as no one likes someone who's "favorite" team is simply whoever won the Super Bowl, World Series, Finals, etc. of the previous season... they realize a true fan is someone who will stick with the team even when they're not doing well but still can tell that the team is trying.

This is not even remotely the same. As the fan of a sports team, it makes absolutely no difference to my personal life if my team wins or loses, other than some ribbing around the water cooler. But when I stick with a company like Microsoft, whose products I use on a daily basis, for the same reason, it absolutely matters. If I use Microsoft's products because I'm a fan who sticks with them through thick or thin, that means that I "put up with" a smartphone that is 5 years behind (by your own admission in the above post), which directly affects me and my productivity.

So yes, you can be a fan of the New England Patriots and Microsoft, but one does not affect your day-to-day life, and the other definitely does.

 

[anon(6078578)]

My vote goes for Stockholm Syndrome..... :evil:

Surely the success of Windows 10 mobile for the consumer, won't be OEMs such as Alcatel producing phones in the first place but that they continue to produce a successor and don't just drop out? Just as we would expect with apps ie producing one is not a measure of success but maintaining it is.

 

[Ten Four]

Let's say someone decides to ditch his android/ios device and decides to try a windows phone, a lumia 950/XL or a 650. He is a person used to have it's phone Work, he does not give pretty much importance to apps. What does he get? a nice phone indeed, but with a broken, still beta OS, nowhere specified in the ads.

I've been reading this about W10 on various forums so decided to try it out myself on a Lumia 640 I got for cheap. I have another phone running WP8.1 I can revert to if I have problems. I must say that so far I have not seen all of these horrible problems everyone is complaining about. Yes, the update process was a bit slow, and required a hard reset of the phone to get everything working, but otherwise I am not seeing bugs or major OS issues. In fact, I rather like W10 on the Lumia 640. There are many neat new features that will be very useful to me, like the world time section in the clock, the updated weather and news apps (much nicer), the new settings are much better, lots of tweaks here and there, etc. A bunch of old apps I am running on WP8.1 work perfectly on W10. So far, so good for me with W10.

 

[cracgor]

I've been reading this about W10 on various forums so decided to try it out myself on a Lumia 640 I got for cheap. I have another phone running WP8.1 I can revert to if I have problems. I must say that so far I have not seen all of these horrible problems everyone is complaining about. Yes, the update process was a bit slow, and required a hard reset of the phone to get everything working, but otherwise I am not seeing bugs or major OS issues. In fact, I rather like W10 on the Lumia 640. There are many neat new features that will be very useful to me, like the world time section in the clock, the updated weather and news apps (much nicer), the new settings are much better, lots of tweaks here and there, etc. A bunch of old apps I am running on WP8.1 work perfectly on W10. So far, so good for me with W10.

There are issues, especially if you were a day 1 adopter. I am a Microsoft Mobile fan, but it is not going well and there is no way around it for me. I adopted the 950xl on day 1 thinking I was the type of fan it was intended for. Despite what someone above said, there was no warning that WM10 was not ready for use on that device. I specifically looked into it for the same reason I do not use the insider programs. I did have a L1520 that had a shattered nonworking screen and had stuck by Microsoft for 3 months waiting on the 950xl getting a L640 while I waited.

I think this all added to my frustration with the phone. I had a lot of crashing and battery issues that rendered the phone almost useless to me (it would enter constant reboot cycles that would only stop by taking out the battery). In addition, it lacked visual voicemail because it was dual simmed. So it made it so that I could not use it for my daily phone, and I wanted a nicer phone than the L640...so I left to Android. I have no clue if it is better or not, but I couldn't wait 4 weeks for an update let alone 8 hours since I have to use the phone for call.

I feel like Windows Phone is different than Palm though. Microsoft doesn't really have to have Windows Mobile succeed any time. It kind of sucks reading this site when I was a WM user. I would see news of universal apps or whatever and think it was going to magically fix everything. The apps never come...even if there is an occasional new comer. They are never really updated and any sort of niche app is missing. I think the problem now is that in addition to 3rd parties not developing apps because of lack of user base, Microsoft seems to be slowing the investment in developing for the platform. I do not think this fabled Surface Phone will fix anything, anymore than I believed naming the voice assistant Cortana would cause Halo users to adopt windows mobile. It will be more than likely a midrange business centered phone that won't matter because my company's and profession's apps won't work on it.

 

[mariusmuntean]

We keep discussing here all over and the month of Feb is at it's last day. MS has not delivered what they have promissed, again. Win10mobile is in the same buggy state, and further more, the last 950XL firmware seems to have brought only problems to a friend of mine: lots of restarts, even after doing a hard reset. So, MS I am asking this again: Are you guys capable of delivering a working update?? Seems to me that you are not: the Os is still a mess, now the firmware updates instead of fixing things they broke even more. Not being able to have a fixed day of release proves what kind of interest is in that mobile division. They will delay again the release to 8.1 devices, and again and again. Keep your fingers crossed if anything good will happen until this late summer.

 

[Pete]

Microsoft didn't promise anything at the end of February. The local office in Mexico decided to publish an internal milestone date and it's not the first time that a local office has announced something without any authorisation or truth.

Nothing will get published until it's ready. Even publishing a tentative aim-date will result in complaints of broken promises, incompetence, and every other word in the thesaurus under the "failure" heading.

 

[mariusmuntean]

Microsoft didn't promise anything at the end of February. The local office in Mexico decided to publish an internal milestone date and it's not the first time that a local office has announced something without any authorisation or truth.

Nothing will get published until it's ready. Even publishing a tentative aim-date will result in complaints of broken promises, incompetence, and every other word in the thesaurus under the "failure" heading.

Yes they did. Read Here They said in February: mid->late. Stop defending them for no reason.

 

[Bobvfr]

"News of the rescheduling was shared by email with the company’s partners."

Have you seen this EMAIL?

 

[Ten Four]

Win10mobile is in the same buggy state

Not seeing any major bugs running the Insiders Preview build on a Lumia 640. The main things I notice are some polish issues, like the menu labels on Edge are funky, the weather app seems to have the wrong temperature for my location, or the install process stopped and stalled (but worked on a restart). Been running W10 for about four days with no major issues. In fact, I would describe it as much less buggy than production Android Lollipop (haven't tried Marshmallow).

 

[mariusmuntean]

"News of the rescheduling was shared by email with the company’s partners."

Have you seen this EMAIL?

I don't have to see any email. MS's bad reputation so far has proved to be enough...like I've said, I trust more in a tree frog than in Microsoft.

 

[Pete]

Yes they did. Read Here They said in February: mid->late. Stop defending them for no reason.

As is implied in the article, Microsoft has milestone dates for release, which then slip if something isn't ready. It's one of these dates that Microsoft Mexico decided to announced as fact when of course it wasn't.

The key phrase here is in the article

According to the email, which uses a lot of buzzy language to convey the message “not ready yet,” both the service update and legacy handset upgrade will now occur in early to mid February. Microsoft will not be rushed; the situation currently appears to be quite fluid, and this software is only going to hit devices when it’s deemed fully ready.

And (as you rightly repeat 10 or 20 times a day), the software isn't fully ready for public release at this point, so the rolling milestone dates roll onwards.

This isn't new, this release methodology is pretty standard. It's just that Microsoft's more transparent approach is leading to more and more complaints as more people use the preview software.

In the old days, it was a case of "shut up and ship", where we only heard about a new major release just before it was going to drop.

I guess that you'd much rather live in a cave and not be told there was a new release until it was announced. I'd rather run free in the open air and get whacked in the face with a branch every so often.

 

[pjhenry1216]

This is not even remotely the same. As the fan of a sports team, it makes absolutely no difference to my personal life if my team wins or loses, other than some ribbing around the water cooler. But when I stick with a company like Microsoft, whose products I use on a daily basis, for the same reason, it absolutely matters. If I use Microsoft's products because I'm a fan who sticks with them through thick or thin, that means that I "put up with" a smartphone that is 5 years behind (by your own admission in the above post), which directly affects me and my productivity.

So yes, you can be a fan of the New England Patriots and Microsoft, but one does not affect your day-to-day life, and the other definitely does.

Ok, starting 5 years behind is not the same as saying the phone is 5 years behind. If that's the way you're going to have a discussion, there's no point. If you're going to put words into someone else's mouth, you might as well just discuss with yourself. In any case, I disagree entirely. You didn't put forth any reason why those have to be different other than picking an attribute in which they're different. But how does that different attribute make any difference? So what, one affects your life and one doesn't. How is that still not a definition of a fan? Plus, you read through the thread and saw what I was replying to correct? Providing a reason *other* than Stockholm Syndrome or a hatred of iPhone/Android? Or are you one who just wants to complain about Microsoft. I honestly can't even see where you stand on the topic. You use it every day but it doesn't meet your requirements? How are you getting anything done then? Why did you choose it in the first place? Why complain about your own poor choice then?