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02-29-2016 02:48 PM
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  1. telomoyo's Avatar
    I am not a person that goes for "the sky is falling" easily. However, with the new report of 49% decrease in WM revenue, is the sky falling for WM? ios and Android remain kings. BlackBerry failed due to lack of innovation, Palm failed due to lack of money, and horrendous support and advertisements from Sprint. Of course, let's not forget the lack of apps in both occasions. Microsoft has the money and the development team necessary for success. Apps? Meh, advertising for phone?...nonexistent. Is the phone arena something that all companies, with the exception of android and IOs, should stop pursuing?
    PCWorld calls the Lumia a "Dead Phone Walking." http://www.pcworld.com/article/30275...e-to-fall.html. For the first time since becoming a WM user, over 3 years, I feel that there may not be any hope left. Your thoughts?
    Last edited by telomoyo; 01-28-2016 at 09:53 PM.
    Joshwin and SeptynAde like this.
    01-28-2016 06:35 PM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    A Deja Vu is a glitch in the Matrix, it happens when they (Nadella) change something (fires the mobile team, releases dodgy "flagships" and focuses on the competition)..... :D
    01-28-2016 06:38 PM
  3. xandros9's Avatar
    The news isn't surprising at all I'll admit. It doesnt seem too urgent, but sure the sky is falling.

    I won't say we have another Palm on our hands, but I guess its interesting to see.

    Also BB10 is what I'd call an innovative product, just didn't garner enough traction. Although I admit I wish there was more of that BB10 magic in their Android flavor.
    01-28-2016 06:42 PM
  4. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    IMHO, the whole leviathan known as Microsoft needs to get it's head out of it's collective backside and smell the roses. The whole thing still reeks of we are right, you, the consumer, is wrong. They carry on as if, we, the end user have no choice in OS's. Not just mobile either. I cannot believe that they buy out a company with a world wide brand name and then ruin it. They are banging on about WM and how it links to the entire ecosystem, and don't bother with any kind marketing! They then release a 'flagship' device that fells like mid range android device (at best!!), with an under developed OS, and everybody in the tech press slate it. I can't believe they 'give' windows 10 away and plug it. They release the surface, and plug it (regular tv spots in UK), yet the device that can link them all together gets nothing. No one knows what continuum is, outside of the teccy's, they release yet another device with the same old 1gig, 8gig setup, and then wonder why things are going tits up!

    The icing on the cake? You have the guy in charge not using 'your' product. What happened to practice what you preach?? Oh, hang on they don't market the phones do they, so you can't accuse him of that!! :)
    01-28-2016 06:55 PM
  5. avlon's Avatar
    Microsoft seems to have lost their way in mobile ever since giving most of the Windows Mobile audience over to Android, and then constantly burning their devoted audience by constantly rebooting their mobile OS.

    I do admit that I like the vision that they've presented, the problem is that it's taking so long that the mobile offering might die before they get the latest vision off the ground.
    01-28-2016 07:21 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Microsoft seems to have lost their way in mobile ever since giving most of the Windows Mobile audience over to Android, and then constantly burning their devoted audience by constantly rebooting their mobile OS.

    I do admit that I like the vision that they've presented, the problem is that it's taking so long that the mobile offering might die before they get the latest vision off the ground.
    I think the biggest problem at this point is: how does Microsoft plan to ever get users who tried Windows Phone/Windows 10 Mobile and left for Android/iOS to return? Even if the apps eventually arrive, why would someone choose to switch back to what he/she left if his/her current mobile platform has all the apps he/she wants, especially if that person has invested money buying apps in the App Store or Google Play? What possibly could compel such a user to return?

    BlackBerry might have a better chance if it makes compelling hardware, since it is now an Android OEM, so previous Google Play app purchases could be installed on the Priv (and future devices) without requiring additional payments. A current Android user would have a more compelling reason to buy an Android device made by BlackBerry than to buy a Windows 10 Mobile device.
    01-28-2016 11:03 PM
  7. pericle's Avatar
    I also think it's over for Windows Mobile. The only people who will be buying it now are only die hard Windows Phone fans, the rest of the world has moved on. Even Microsoft seems to have given up with their attempts at Mobile, with their efforts being only half-hearted at best and lacking any sort of urgency. I personally think there won't be anymore Lumia phones after the 650.

    Even the if the Surface Phone materialises, it's still only going to be a niche device and never going to gain any great market share. The only question is whether Microsoft will bother putting resources into making and marketing a device which it knows is never going to make a difference.
    01-29-2016 12:55 AM
  8. Paul Stasik's Avatar
    All this media is giving me an existential crisis to be honest.

    I feel like I'm on the defensive every day, like people go out of their way to link me articles about how bad Windows Phone is, how it's a mistake to have it, how it won't survive, how Apple and Android are superior. It's like I'm being bullied by the internet and society for honestly, truly preferring Windows Phones.

    I have a 950 XL, and I f'in LOVE it. I haven't had problems others claim to, it's stylish as all hell in a Mozo cognac back plate. I have all the apps I want, I use Continuum with a wireless keyboard/mouse as my kitchen PC and have taken it traveling-- leaving my laptop home (it's really nice using it in a hotel room!).

    But then I just get called a fanboy, discarded. I don't get it.

    I like it, I truly do-- but the "forces" out there seem to be doing everything they can to stop me from liking it, marginalizing me, making me feel under attack like by choosing this OS I'm not human or something. /sigh
    01-29-2016 04:37 AM
  9. Pete's Avatar
    The downturn in revenue is kind of expected after Microsoft stopped spewing out tons of low and mid-range Lumias and concentrating on a smaller portfolio of devices.

    We already know where the market share is for Windows Phone, and I don't think that Microsoft spending huge amounts on marketing will really make much of an appreciable dent in that share.

    It makes sense to me for Microsoft to concentrate on Windows as a product (and service) and promote that across a wide range of devices (nice to see that the Surface line is healthy). Sadly, the press (including here at Windows Central) can't really help themselves spinning things in a negative way, which adds yet more nails to the coffin. Everyone loves to bring down the big guy in the room.
    01-29-2016 04:50 AM
  10. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    All this media is giving me an existential crisis to be honest.

    I feel like I'm on the defensive every day, like people go out of their way to link me articles about how bad Windows Phone is, how it's a mistake to have it, how it won't survive, how Apple and Android are superior. It's like I'm being bullied by the internet and society for honestly, truly preferring Windows Phones.

    I have a 950 XL, and I f'in LOVE it. I haven't had problems others claim to, it's stylish as all hell in a Mozo cognac back plate. I have all the apps I want, I use Continuum with a wireless keyboard/mouse as my kitchen PC and have taken it traveling-- leaving my laptop home (it's really nice using it in a hotel room!).

    But then I just get called a fanboy, discarded. I don't get it.

    I like it, I truly do-- but the "forces" out there seem to be doing everything they can to stop me from liking it, marginalizing me, making me feel under attack like by choosing this OS I'm not human or something. /sigh
    My 16 year old son (YES 16!) loves his 950. He didn't want a laptop, as carrying it to school left him 'vulnerable' on his walk. We got him the 950 with the dock to use at home. He took it to school to present his homework and had it confiscated for getting a mobile out. No matter how much he, and I, explained it and how it is a computer, like his classmates laptops, they wouldn't have it! After demanding a meeting with the head, he can now use it. Talk about heath and saftey gone mad, the PSU for the dock had to pass an electrical PAT test!!!
    Maybe, MSFT are so far ahead of the game, that the regular Joe on the street doesn't know what they are capable of!

    As for the tech press continually slating MSFT, it seems to be an ingrained emotion. For as long as I can remember, despite people using windows, they always feel obliged to wine and moan about MSFT, whether it's software or hardware. As for crapple they are just living on, or relying on, the name of Steve Jobs. Reading the press recently, it looks as if the iPhone is losing some of its's gloss. The 6 is still being outsold by the 5 in the UK, so maybe people are wising up and realising that you can only re-invent the wheel so many times.

    As for me, well, I am a windows user who came from droid. We have 5 people in my house using 950's, a 950xl, a 930 and two 640xl. As spares we have a 1320, a 535 and a 435. We also have a couple of 550's and some 640's which we use in our taxi business. They are so reliable compared to a droid. I love the sending texts on a PC as it saves us having to leave the workstation to get a phone and do it

    So there you are. A small company, and a teenager, loving the 'grown up' OS and integration that WP offers. I find, as a business device they are great, reliable and very easy to use with the start screen set properly
    01-29-2016 05:05 AM
  11. Stanleywinston's Avatar
    I don't get what the surprise is here. Microsoft said they were going stop dishing out dozens of different models while they regrouped. In the meantime they'd stick a phone out for the fans to grab if they really couldn't wait
    They've done that haven't they?
    The 950/950xl came out. They've had little or no marketing. They are for the fans. In no way is this meant to attract new people. This is the regrouping stage. This means that the revenues will go through the floor. When you are losing money on the phones that you are selling, maybe it helps to sell fewer phones whilst you work out where you are going.
    Whether it works or not will be seen if/when they bring out a surface phone or a surface phone 2.
    Not everything needs to be hyperbole. It's not either the greatest thing in the world or the worst thing.
    If you like it, great. If you don't, fine.
    The regrouping/not putting out loads of phones faze was never going to be just a couple of weeks in mid winter. It could take a while and it might never happen. We will only know when we look back on it in a few years.
    01-29-2016 05:15 AM
  12. colinkiama's Avatar
    Why is everyone so surprised? What did you think was going to happen even try reduced the number of phones they would sell and barely did any marketing?
    Iain_S, 511pf and Jcmg62 like this.
    01-29-2016 05:38 AM
  13. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Microsoft Phone division was losing $500-$600 million per quarter (10% of their earnings) and that was unsustainable. So, they cut marketing spending and reduced research and development to the minimum. They also limited the distribution of the phones to fewer markets and carriers.
    Microsoft probably saved $400-$500 millions with this new strategy, but the impact in sales was huge. With a 1% of market share, I don't think iPhone developers will be interested in porting their apps to WP or even Universal app developers give much attention to the phone variant.

    Operating expenses decreased $561 million or 14%, mainly due to lower sales and marketing expenses and research and development expenses. Sales and marketing expenses decreased $359 million or 18%, driven by a reduction in phone expenses, partially offset by marketing expenses associated with the launch of Surface Pro 4, Surface Book, and Windows 10. Research and development expenses decreased $179 million or 11%, mainly due to a reduction in phone expenses.
    aXross likes this.
    01-29-2016 06:07 AM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    Doesnt matter whether you're surprised or not, can explain it or not. Offshoot of all this is the number of new devices being sold is falling fast, which will obviously have an effect on developer interest leading to even fewer apps which in turn is going to affect future sales numbers. Sitting around here trying to make out that its somehow all part of the plann is ridiculous when we have seen first hand over the years the results of having fewer apps than the competition. Does anyone honestly belleve that if sales decline to even lower levels that Microsoft will just continue to throw money down the drain keeping mobile alive?
    VetDuarte likes this.
    01-29-2016 06:46 AM
  15. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Does anyone honestly belleve that if sales decline to even lower levels that Microsoft will just continue to throw money down the drain keeping mobile alive?
    It doesn't seem they're losing much money anymore, but sales may continue declining the next few quarters.

    In the long term all depends on the Surface Phone. I don't think they need many units to break even, maybe 500k or a million per quarter.
    01-29-2016 07:13 AM
  16. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Nope, Palm unlike Microsoft did not have other revenue streams to fall back on.

    What killed Palm were a collective number of factors, carriers’ pulling out of deals last minute is one of them and these are extremely costly especially when there is nothing to massage the blow.

    Since there is no UWP without phones, Windows Mobile will still continue whether it becomes a thriving platform or a nascent platform used be a people who fall into in my opinion - two camps.

    a) Dislike Android and IOS
    b) People who have used various mobile o/s’s, have tinkered in the past with ROMs and have decided to settle for a single o/s once and for all.

    What could possible inject some life into this the ROM flashing scene, but that alone will bring some problems which is a given. Generally speaking you cannot have all pros and no cons.

    There is no such thing as a one side coin.

    Right now this how I see it, Windows Mobile 10 was designed to draw in users who were used to the horrible UX elements on IOS and Android; as such there are a lot of UX inconsistencies.

    BUT on the flipside combined with other factors WP growth has shrunk and that is all down to perspective -

    No Users = No Developers = No Apps = No Users = No Developers = No Apps - It's a vicious cycle this what the Tech media keep looping back and forth.

    However you can't blame them for everything, Microsoft have provided them with tonnes excuses to use and spin to their liking.

    Lastly the platform agnostic approach will always cannibalize sales, if you think purely just because people will use Microsoft services on their IOS devices therefore as a result will always get a Windows tablet and a windows phone later on?

    Wrong, that is just being extremely naive.

    There will always be some people who wish to do so to have a cohesive experience but the conversion rate will not be 100%.

    As you need to take in to other factors into consideration:

    1) Family members - example: If all your family members use face time and you’re stuck on Skype, which they refuse to use - what do you do?
    2) Friends - same as above
    3) Gadgets & electronics bought - for example your new Sonos system is not compatible with your phone - what do you do?
    4) Time and money spent on apps - apps / progressed cannot be transferred for those who do not utilise cloud saves - has anyone tried setting their icloud account as thier ms account?

    Plus if you combine the above with everyone's confirmation bias, you have another situation entirely.

    The solution imo:
    1) + 2) Offer a superior solution to face time, they could have incorporated Skype into rooms in my opinion.

    3) Here this where the bridges and UWP platform comes into play

    4)This one is tricky, as that it would require pretty much all Devs supporting cloud sync the way round that would be offer to facilitate this at no extra cost to the developers (Onedrive) and offer partner service hooks so they can use the cloud storage platform of their choice.

    In regards to the confirmation bias, there is no point going there - swimming in an ice bucket across the ocean would be more fruitful.

    Personally It is beginning to look like to me we may get Red Stone 1 not the current retail build for WP8.1 as it would be more polished and much more refined.

    However we will see what happens in February 2016.

    Hmm... Just re-read my post and it does sound rather negative.. Oops.

    Here's a random, just to lighten up the sombre mood

    random-racing.gif
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 01-29-2016 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Spelling
    n7slc, telomoyo, jmshub and 6 others like this.
    01-29-2016 07:21 AM
  17. Marko Marjanovic's Avatar
    I think they want to kill Lumia brand easy and undercover. Why ? For the glory of Surface phone, of course.
    Alfa Kapa likes this.
    01-29-2016 08:29 AM
  18. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I think they want to kill Lumia brand easy and undercover. Why ? For the glory of Surface phone, of course.
    Nothing would be achieved by doing that, don't forget according to adduplex the L520 is still the most popular wp 8.x out there. So the simplest way to bolster user numbers would be upgrade your most popular phone would it not?
    aXross likes this.
    01-29-2016 08:38 AM
  19. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Here we go again. Couldn't this discussion have been put in one of the 100+ existing threads already?

    Suggestion for the moderators: Combine all of the "Windows Mobile is dead, the sky is falling" threads into one. Combine all of the "future is bright for Windows Mobile" threads into one. Sticky both of them and any future discussion on those two topics stays in those two threads. Give infractions if necessary to discourage yet another brand new thread on these topics which have already been beaten to death, resurrected, shot and beaten again ad infinitum. I am all for free speech, but it's gotten hard to find the information amongst all the noise.
    01-29-2016 08:45 AM
  20. telomoyo's Avatar
    Here we go again. Couldn't this discussion have been put in one of the 100+ existing threads already?

    Suggestion for the moderators: Combine all of the "Windows Mobile is dead, the sky is falling" threads into one. Combine all of the "future is bright for Windows Mobile" threads into one. Sticky both of them and any future discussion on those two topics stays in those two threads. Give infractions if necessary to discourage yet another brand new thread on these topics which have already been beaten to death, resurrected, shot and beaten again ad infinitum. I am all for free speech, but it's gotten hard to find the information amongst all the noise.
    I am aware that there are many other "the sky is falling threads." I started this one in response to the new evidence, which is significant, of 49% revenue decrease. It also happens when new evidence is presented regarding other topics, such as global warming, the discussion is resurrected. Let us have a discussion here. There are some really good comments here that would not have been written if this thread was not started.
    theefman and Greg Wenzler like this.
    01-29-2016 08:55 AM
  21. Marko Marjanovic's Avatar
    You think that, me two, person near me too..but they might not. They earn and focus more on other windows product *for now*, but i think after that famous Surface phone they will engage on comercials and apps more then before. After all they work that for money, and without risk there is no profit. Even if they completly lost all phone division, microsoft will still be on the top with OS and other better selling product.
    telomoyo likes this.
    01-29-2016 08:59 AM
  22. Stanleywinston's Avatar
    I am aware that there are many other "the sky is falling threads." I started this one in response to the new evidence, which is significant, of 49% revenue decrease. It also happens when new evidence is presented regarding other topics, such as global warming, the discussion is resurrected. Let us have a discussion here. There are some really good comments here that would not have been written if this thread was not started.
    but if it just rehashes the same stuff there's not a lot of point.
    If the sky is going to fall then it'll happen.

    Point being that the new evidence doesn't really change anything and isn't news to anyone that noticed that Microsoft said they weren't going to push in that phase.

    I think the next year or so will be interesting. I don't think the last 6 months was. And by interesting I don't mean it's definitely going to be the best thing ever ever or I think it's going to be the end of civilisation as we know it. It will just move the narrative
    editguy likes this.
    01-29-2016 09:06 AM
  23. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    I'm in the same boat.

    Like I said in another forum, sales were poor, as expected. When you don’t release any phones, don’t advertise, and spend more time developing for competing platforms than your own then yeah, you aren’t going to sell anything. MS continues to punch themselves in the face.

    With that said, who cares. Who cares if their marketshare is low? If WP/W10M only had 100K users, and they were happy and Microsoft continued to support it, then so what? If it only had .5% marketshare, so what? Why does something need to die just because certain tech writers or fanboys thinks it should. I want W10M and Blackberry to do well. Consumers are going to suffer if iOS and Android are the only two options.
    01-29-2016 09:18 AM
  24. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    I think you all are getting way to excited about the end of Windows phone, I think Microsoft is in it for the long haul, and I think they are being very sneaky and smart about how they are changing the way people think of Microsoft products, just look at all the Microsoft App's on other platforms. You can use any smartphone and find Microsoft, Windows 10 and universal App's and the Surface products. You watch, it will not be fast but it will happen and people will not even realise that they are being conditioned to use Windows, It is happening right now.
    telomoyo, DrPuppy and v_emman like this.
    01-29-2016 09:24 AM
  25. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I honestly think that the insider program may have caused many people to move over to android. In fact, there was lots of posts on reddit about the state of w10. The point of the insider program for a lot of people was to see what MS is doing and if they like the direction they are headed in. And for the hardcore users they get to see how things are coming along and what to expect. But even the insiders aren't really getting anything and so it makes it really seem like there's no focus on it. So the hardcore users are also questioning MS's motives.

    Couple that with no globally functioning phones. How many do you think were interested in the new lumias but on Verizon? Verizon has a huge pull of people due to coverage that no one else can provide, not to mention some people get great deals. But MS doesn't seem to care. And MS could have done subsidizing on the phones themselves where people pay in installments to help foster buying a freaking 1000 dollar phone (In canada). But of course they didn't care. Their view is, any hardcore user will buy it. We can show some of the stuff we are working on to the hardcore users. Except they aren't really showing us anything any more.

    I have a 950xl and love the phone. Even before this report came out, I started really getting worried with all the new android/ios apps that are being hammered out by MS. What really did it for me is the word flow one handed keyboard. My guess is that all departments are communicating and they are aware of each others work, but somehow w10 doesn't get this super useful feature?

    My hope would be that the build to insiders is being postponed because they want to include some new features to get people excited again, but somehow I think this won't happen. I'd love to see them implement PC game to phone streaming and do it really well. Possibly show off rise of the tomb raider playing on the phone.

    They are working on a lumia flip cover that will also act as a screen which could turn into a keyboard or anything really. If it is able to turn into a virtual joystick and allow you to game with it, then that would be sweet. But it would really have to be exclusive to the lumia lines. Because if they release it to work with ios or android then honestly there will be no pull. They would make more money sure, but at the cost of their own platform. They need to see that they are not giving people reason to move to w10.

    It's not the actual phone sale stats that have windows users worried. This was expected, it's the fact that MS doesn't care and keeps pushing cool stuff onto other platforms. There's nothing new coming to us.
    01-29-2016 09:58 AM
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