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05-08-2016 02:26 AM
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  1. tgp's Avatar
    Microsoft is not Apple, its fortunes are not tied to a miniscule sector like phones. Microsoft is, and always will be, software and services first. Hence the name.
    Exactly! But to a lot of the users of a Microsoft Mobile fan forum such as this one, most of the passion is directly toward WP. We take Windows desktop for granted, and not everyone uses some of their other products such as Office. I do not believe for one second that Microsoft's future success is tied to the success of WM. It can disappear tomorrow, and Microsoft would feel no negative effect on their bottom line. In fact, it would probably help!

    I also do not believe that Microsoft's attempted paradigm shift makes mobile paramount. They haven't had a significant mobile presence since WP7 was released over 5 years ago. Does anyone really think that Microsoft would suddenly change directions to make their future dependent on WM's success? I can just picture a meeting in the board room:

    Satya: "Well folks, up to this point we have not been able to establish a mobile presence with WP. In fact, whatever market share we do have has been slipping lately. Any ideas?"

    Joe: "Let's sell the proverbial farm and hang the entire company's future on W10M!"
    02-10-2016 01:46 PM
  2. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Microsoft is not Apple, its fortunes are not tied to a miniscule sector like phones. Microsoft is, and always will be, software and services first. Hence the name.
    That's so true.

    I was in Starbucks once and spotted two engineers with MacBooks running Visio in Windows. Visio is only available for Windows and is very expensive software.

    Even many other folks I know who are consumers, not enterprise users, run Windows on their Macs or Linux boxes for gaming.

    Microsoft will do just fine with enterprise users and consumers who need Windows and other Microsoft software.
    Guytronic likes this.
    02-10-2016 02:06 PM
  3. dragerfroe's Avatar
    I am on board with adkrish22290.

    1. It is a phone....it should NEVER cost as much as a quality laptop (unless they can pack an i7 in a phone). So, I buy midrange Windows Phones and iPhones are out.
    2. I used to own an Android....never again. I am not going to bash but....they are definitely not for me.
    3. I like the stability of my phone.

    Why does Windows Phone not get any traction?

    1. Go to a phone store and EVERY SINGLE SALES PERSON shows you an Android or iPhone.
    2. The displays in the store are always broken or not functional.
    3. Hello Sprint and Verizon??? (This bleeds into third party phone development support too)
    4. Apps...I guess. (I don't rate this high because not everybody needs SnapChat or whatever new fancy social app is out there - 18% have Instagram installed (2013) so widdle that down to 12% who need it, that still leaves 88% of a user-base)

    These are really end-user store experience issues. I mean....these are just basic issues that any competent or more important SHREWD business man should be able to fix.

    at FatClue: You are right, the phone market might be small bananas but think about this:

    The phone in your hand is tied to the ad space revenue of the world wide web.

    Imagine if Google lost the web search crown? It would be in a hurt locker. The revenue they heap allows them to make big risk investments into their R&D department. This is why Microsoft should stay the course.
    Last edited by dragerfroe; 02-10-2016 at 02:29 PM.
    02-10-2016 02:16 PM
  4. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    I care because windows computers and windows phones are all I have ever known-
    I have played on families iPhones and mac books thought they were dreadful- Never even tried an android anything, I do want to try an android phone. Nexus 6p.
    the app gap which never mattered to me much has become concern lately for me. I hate the thought of leaving but it is becoming a real possibility.
    I am waiting for a finished wm10. I do like w10 on my desktop and laptop though.
    02-10-2016 02:44 PM
  5. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I am on board with adkrish22290.

    1. It is a phone....it should NEVER cost as much as a quality laptop (unless they can pack an i7 in a phone). So, I buy midrange Windows Phones and iPhones are out.
    2. I used to own an Android....never again. I am not going to bash but....they are definitely not for me.
    3. I like the stability of my phone.

    Why does Windows Phone not get any traction?

    1. Go to a phone store and EVERY SINGLE SALES PERSON shows you an Android or iPhone.
    2. The displays in the store are always broken or not functional.
    3. Hello Sprint and Verizon??? (This bleeds into third party phone development support too)
    4. Apps...I guess. (I don't rate this high because not everybody needs SnapChat or whatever new fancy social app is out there - 18% have Instagram installed (2013) so widdle that down to 12% who need it, that still leaves 88% of a user-base)

    These are really end-user store experience issues. I mean....these are just basic issues that any competent or more important SHREWD business man should be able to fix.

    at FatClue: You are right, the phone market might be small bananas but think about this:

    The phone in your hand is tied to the ad space revenue of the world wide web.

    Imagine if Google lost the web search crown? It would be in a hurt locker. The revenue they heap allows them to make big risk investments into their R&D department. This is why Microsoft should stay the course.
    I wasn't insinuating that mobile is unimportant to Microsoft's overall health. I was just pointing out to a user who thinks the company will wither and die because "Windows is dead" and nothing else is relevant. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    Laura Knotek, tgp, libra89 and 4 others like this.
    02-10-2016 03:26 PM
  6. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    I wasn't insinuating that mobile is unimportant to Microsoft's overall health. I was just pointing out to a user who thinks the company will wither and die because "Windows is dead" and nothing else is relevant. Nothing could be further from the truth.
    I was referring to Nadella's policies towards the mobile division. If you think that everything he's done for the mobile part until now is ok :)) well I have nothing else to say...:))
    02-11-2016 12:34 AM
  7. Pete's Avatar
    well I have nothing else to say...:))
    Sigh. If only... I think pretty much everyone who regularly reads the forum now knows just how unhappy you are with Microsoft's mobile strategy.

    Microsoft understands that it only has a small footprint in the mobile market and it would take an unreasonable amount of investment to make any degree of change (Nokia tried that by flooding the market with countless variations, and that strategy didn't change anything). Windows 10 Mobile isn't going to be a big thing any time soon, there's just too much of a user base for Apple and Android for that to happen. Microsoft need to push Windows 10 as a whole product (which is doing well) and use that momentum to getting app developers to create universal apps.

    Windows 10 has been out for a while now and we still don't see really good major apps being created. I guess that many Windows users are still using the iPhones/Samsung Galaxies for apps and using Windows for browsing/email/Office. It's also entirely possible that Microsoft are ok with this - business and Office 365 are big revenue earners for them.
    02-11-2016 02:15 AM
  8. ajayden's Avatar
    Exactly! But to a lot of the users of a Microsoft Mobile fan forum such as this one, most of the passion is directly toward WP. We take Windows desktop for granted, and not everyone uses some of their other products such as Office. I do not believe for one second that Microsoft's future success is tied to the success of WM. It can disappear tomorrow, and Microsoft would feel no negative effect on their bottom line. In fact, it would probably help!

    I also do not believe that Microsoft's attempted paradigm shift makes mobile paramount. They haven't had a significant mobile presence since WP7 was released over 5 years ago. Does anyone really think that Microsoft would suddenly change directions to make their future dependent on WM's success? I can just picture a meeting in the board room:

    Satya: "Well folks, up to this point we have not been able to establish a mobile presence with WP. In fact, whatever market share we do have has been slipping lately. Any ideas?"

    Joe: "Let's sell the proverbial farm and hang the entire company's future on W10M!"
    Very True.

    Infact, Microsoft is in the right path to increase their bottom line. They will not need so many Lumia based staff for production of device, marketing and other clerical jobs, as they are reducing the number of WM devices. In the future, there will only be one or two WM devices and they will upgrade those device models year-on-year. The hardware task is handled by Panos' team and they don't need Lumia hardware guys.

    This cost cutting will definitely add to the bottom line, along with the increase in the earning from other services.

    Below is a graph showing the strength that Microsoft has - The Desktop/Tablet market. They still control almost 85% of the market. They should focus more on that to improve sales and bottom line.
    windows-desktop-market.png
    02-11-2016 09:51 AM
  9. angusdegraosta's Avatar
    When the Kindle app gets updated and the bank apps show up again we will have liftoff. Make it happen, Microsoft. The Papa John's pizza app can wait. I'm back for the camera and the design language of the OS, which in its current form needs more work. I could have got the mighty flawless Moto X Pure Edition, which also is a rarity because of the American tendency to go with carrier branded Samsungs and Apples. I got the 950 for the camera and the dedicated camera button. Battery life is going great, and Windows 10 Mobile is slowly shaping itself. I'm still not worried about earnings reports. We all know they scaled back, and they just released two flagships with an OS behind schedule. Microsoft is just a mess in general. Maybe they should work on that. Meanwhile, the phone is great. Cortana should stop being dumb, but that's a story for another time.
    02-11-2016 10:27 AM
  10. libra89's Avatar
    When the Kindle app gets updated and the bank apps show up again we will have liftoff. Make it happen, Microsoft. The Papa John's pizza app can wait. I'm back for the camera and the design language of the OS, which in its current form needs more work. I could have got the mighty flawless Moto X Pure Edition, which also is a rarity because of the American tendency to go with carrier branded Samsungs and Apples. I got the 950 for the camera and the dedicated camera button. Battery life is going great, and Windows 10 Mobile is slowly shaping itself. I'm still not worried about earnings reports. We all know they scaled back, and they just released two flagships with an OS behind schedule. Microsoft is just a mess in general. Maybe they should work on that. Meanwhile, the phone is great. Cortana should stop being dumb, but that's a story for another time.
    I'll be looking forward to having the Kindle app updated so much. That and OverDrive. Trying OverDrive on Android for the first time is like whoa, because it's nothing like that on Windows 8.1. However, on Edge, it's pretty good. Can't use Kindle on Edge so that makes me forever sad. :(

    I'm actually on the fence of if I should try the 650 or not really.
    02-11-2016 10:45 AM
  11. dragerfroe's Avatar
    A world that almost without argument, is a far more profitable and growing market than the USA, which by most metrics, is completely saturated/stagnant for mobile sales.

    Race to the bottom is the way to build install/user-base for mobile.
    I agree for emerging markets, make them dirt cheap and basically give them away like hotcakes and create a zombie like infection. In the USA...meh...Microsoft needs phone carrier support more than anything.

    This strategy will drive a large user base which can then drive ad revenue for emerging markets. Some things to note about this strategy:

    1. Microsoft sold some of its Bing Maps technology to Uber,
    Exactly what was sold, I don't know. Generically though, this is a decent deal which will let Uber handle all the heavy development R&D costs and Microsoft can still use the api when it needs - more for developers.

    2. Microsoft offloaded its Ad Display Unit to Yahoo
    Why would you want to offload anything to Marissa Mayer is beyond me. I wouldn't let her manage my toilet seat. I can't really make sense of this because Yahoo is not exactly a darling of the online world anymore and "innovation" doesn't really stick out when you say "Yahoo." (I personally think of a chocolate drink - Yoo-hoo, honestly though, my mom really does like Yahoo)

    Anyway, in the long-run Saijin is right about the low-end phone market and how to turn that into a potential profit.
    Saijin_Naib likes this.
    02-11-2016 03:42 PM
  12. X0LARIUM's Avatar
    One of the biggest reason of the failure: APPS.

    Right now they are going the long way by making Windows 10 "cool". Whereas all they need are the apps. And see how it changes...
    02-12-2016 04:25 PM
  13. mariusmuntean's Avatar
    One of the biggest reason of the failure: APPS.

    Right now they are going the long way by making Windows 10 "cool". Whereas all they need are the apps. And see how it changes...
    Up until now apps were the only reason, WP was fast, slick, unique. With win10 they have another problem besides apps: the OS which is far from what 8.1 was. it's laggy, has lots of issues, broken design etc etc
    Toutou Kay likes this.
    02-14-2016 06:19 AM
  14. Saijin_Naib's Avatar
    I really wish the Enterprise/Business aspect of Windows Mobile (6.5) would come back to Windows 10 Mobile. I want to be able to use my Trimble/ESRI GIS programs on my Windows Phone.

    You'll forgive me if I don't want to do the bulk of my logging with a $9k+ device. I left it on the roof of my car once when I was juggling all of my equipment and log books and drove off.

    O_O Never again.
    02-15-2016 12:37 AM
  15. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I really wish the Enterprise/Business aspect of Windows Mobile (6.5) would come back to Windows 10 Mobile. I want to be able to use my Trimble/ESRI GIS programs on my Windows Phone.

    You'll forgive me if I don't want to do the bulk of my logging with a $9k+ device. I left it on the roof of my car once when I was juggling all of my equipment and log books and drove off.

    O_O Never again.
    TBH, now that we have Universal Apps, I wouldn't mind if we went back to 6.5 completely. With the modern hardware it would probably be a lot better than what we have today. WinMo was very compact and the HD2 showed what was possible with a smidgen of RAM and a capacitive display.
    02-15-2016 01:58 PM
  16. cracgor's Avatar
    Sigh. If only... I think pretty much everyone who regularly reads the forum now knows just how unhappy you are with Microsoft's mobile strategy.

    Microsoft understands that it only has a small footprint in the mobile market and it would take an unreasonable amount of investment to make any degree of change (Nokia tried that by flooding the market with countless variations, and that strategy didn't change anything). Windows 10 Mobile isn't going to be a big thing any time soon, there's just too much of a user base for Apple and Android for that to happen. Microsoft need to push Windows 10 as a whole product (which is doing well) and use that momentum to getting app developers to create universal apps.

    Windows 10 has been out for a while now and we still don't see really good major apps being created. I guess that many Windows users are still using the iPhones/Samsung Galaxies for apps and using Windows for browsing/email/Office. It's also entirely possible that Microsoft are ok with this - business and Office 365 are big revenue earners for them.
    Its also possible that users are just used to using browsers for a lot of functions. Like I use the browser to use windows central and not the app. Same with youtube, facebook, and twitter. On my computer the apps just aren't as good as the web page. The web page works well because it works on macOS, W10, linux, etc. They just have to design one functioning web page. With modern computer browsers, you can still get notifications for sites like facebook if you like, but personally, I like doing most of that social stuff on my phone.
    02-15-2016 04:23 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Its also possible that users are just used to using browsers for a lot of functions. Like I use the browser to use windows central and not the app. Same with youtube, facebook, and twitter. On my computer the apps just aren't as good as the web page. The web page works well because it works on macOS, W10, linux, etc. They just have to design one functioning web page. With modern computer browsers, you can still get notifications for sites like facebook if you like, but personally, I like doing most of that social stuff on my phone.
    Truth be told, until there's some form of ad blocking for Edge Mobile or even IE 11, I would prefer to use as many apps as possible. However, there are many features on popular apps (Android & iOS included) that are accessible only via desktop browsing.
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    02-15-2016 05:02 PM
  18. Canjok's Avatar
    No it doesn't really matter. I think it would be somehow even better if WP died. Microsoft's new strategy is that they release every software on other platforms. So I think MS would release a surface phone like experience with android, get the syncing right and many peoples would be happier. WP users would have more apps without neglecting the hardware.
    mariusmuntean likes this.
    02-16-2016 03:04 PM
  19. Ryujingt3's Avatar
    To me, it does not bother me. I am happy with my 950XL. I don't think Microsoft will let it fail entirely but, more likely, just quietly fade away in to the background whilst they turn their focus more to Android and iPhone. Microsoft are actually doing this right now. It would be interesting though if the so-called 'Surface Phone' makes them change this focus and start afresh with the Surface brand as their mobile leader and dismissing Lumia to history.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    05-08-2016 02:26 AM
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