The Windows 10 April 2018 update has arrived! Get the new Dell XPS 15, starting at $999.99
05-08-2016 02:26 AM
119 123 ...
tools
  1. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Doom and gloom posts are many and widespread, no denying that

    Here are the facts as I see it:
    1. Windows 10 mobile is released for new phones but under constant development to upgrade older phones
    2. Developing for W10M is still ongoing and will before some time as many news seem to indicate
    3. New 3rd party hardware manufacturers are releasing new handsets with W10M, latest being VAIO
    4. Lumia sales have reduced in the past year or so


    Now kindly answer these questions before replying to this thread. Or at least go through these questions and musings before rattling off another W10M is dead post

    1. Are you a Microsoft employee directly or indirectly working in the mobile division or W10M OS development team? If yes, then your job could be at stake if W10M fails and no units are sold.
    2. Are you a person working directly or indirectly at a Nokia/Microsoft customer care centre? If yes, then if MS mobile fails, you could be out of a job.
    3. Are you a Microsoft salesperson working directly or indirectly with the MS mobile division? If yes, then your job could be on the line in the future if the mobile division is cancelled due to low sales
    4. Are you shareholder of MS shares? If yes and your shares portfolio is strictly MS only, then your future shares value could drop by a tiny margin if W10M dies
    5. Are you MS store employee or indirectly work at a MS store selling MS products? If yes, your livelihood could potentially be at risk if W10M is declared dead and buried
    6. Are you a worker at MS repair centres for Windows mobiles? If yes, then your earnings could reduce in the future due to reduced sales and eventual zero sales of Lumia handsets
    7. Are you a MS app developer who depends entirely or nearly entirely on your app revenue from windows mobile apps? If yes, then your source of revenue might reduce if MS mobile sales plummet to 0


    If however you are none of these, then why should it matter to you that Windows mobile sales have fallen?
    You could be a student or an office worker or an electrician or an architect or a retired army major or anything except those above. So if MS sells 4.5 million phones or 45 million, why should it affect you?

    You have a windows phone already, don't you? It's working, isn't it? Even if it doesn't work any more, you can always get a new one, right? The only time you will need to be worried is if all worldwide sales were cancelled and all windows phone stocks were destroyed and all spare parts were also destroyed. Then and only then will you need to start worrying

    And you know what? My lumia still works. My local customer care centre still exists. The telcom companies still support windows phones. The local mobile stores still sell windows phones.

    So kindly reconsider declaring that windows mobile is dead. It's not. It is plain to see it is not. Just this week we got 10586.71 build and there is a rumour of build 10586.104 next week. The platform is evolving, not dying.

    Take this analogy of the caterpillar. MS has collected a lot of information on how to get the mobile right. It's digesting and changing. Right now it is in the pupal stage. Do we know what is inside? We kind of do because of insider program. Do we know the final form? No, we can't know now. The butterfly has yet to fully develop and sprout the wings.

    Let the butterfly develop and grow. Shouting at it while it is developing in the chrysalis that it is dead or dying does not help.

    So be patient, be observant and thank you
    02-04-2016 02:05 AM
  2. Pete's Avatar
    Thread moved to the relevant forum section.
    02-04-2016 02:08 AM
  3. justonlumia's Avatar
    Anyone who has a job tied to the fate of windows phone would rather be spending time looking for a new job than come and rant on a board which will further deteriorate his situation

    The rants are from some customers of WP, people who want to try WP, people who just like to have fun in forums etc

    Its just like how you are defending Microsoft with this topic frustrated with the negative posts, in a similar fashion they are ranting about Microsoft as a disgruntled customer with a phone which has no updates/features coming on WP8 with the promise of W10M while Microsoft stays silent. The premature release of W10M phones adding more people on the frustrated list.

    All this will go away by itself once the expected potential of W10M picks up sometime in the future
    02-04-2016 02:57 AM
  4. Charles Brown8's Avatar
    A Big Thank You!! Same way I look at it!
    02-04-2016 03:41 AM
  5. gwinegarden's Avatar
    Forums, such as this, tend to bring more negative comments because people feel a need to complain somewhere.
    02-04-2016 08:13 AM
  6. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Re: Chinton Gohel,
    Thank you. I agree.
    .
    People exaggerate and use the word "dead". Dead is defined as non-functioning. I know, they are just exaggerating to make a point, for a purpose. I wonder, what is that purpose?
    .
    The average person who just wants a phone, and doesn't check Windows Central ten times a day, is uninformed, and will likely be put off by such comments.
    .
    Think about what you say and do.
    Last edited by Kevin Rush; 02-04-2016 at 08:42 AM.
    02-04-2016 08:32 AM
  7. Br1t's Avatar
    So I can answer no to all your questions, never declared the platform is dead, yet I still care greatly about the fall in sales. Why? Here's my answer.

    The short answer is that I care, I like and want to use Windows but it's success is in jeopardy. I don't want to use another platform but at what point is the sacrifice worth it. I guess we individually need to ask ourselves what are the sacrifices Vs other platforms. For me it's been the scattershot hardware deployment leaving myself and others without hardware upgrade options at times. And secondarily the app development situation which is restricted directly by windows market share. That's highly subjective, where it's and issue for me it's not for others. It's something I've had to tolerate in using windows rather than enjoy. I want that to change and the only thing that changes it is sales and market share. So this is why is matters to me.
    Kevin Rush, libra89, ven07 and 6 others like this.
    02-04-2016 08:43 AM
  8. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    George Washington is dead. Thomas Jefferson is dead. Martin Luther King is dead. Yet their influence is still with us. This is the proper usage of the term "dead."

    To declare a computing platform "dead" which still has many active users, and is still in active development and support, is premature at best, and wishful thinking at worst.
    02-04-2016 11:30 AM
  9. xandros9's Avatar
    I'd call Windows Mobile as on life support, BlackBerry 10 as dying, webOS as mummified and Palm OS as definitely dead.

    I don't have ties to Microsoft or the OSes success, but after BB10 and webOS, Windows Phone 8 was the last major player I found compelling in the way it worked.
    02-04-2016 11:46 AM
  10. ScrubbyXD's Avatar
    Bottom line for me is Microsoft is doing what they said they would. In the end if the platform was going to grow the needed things have been accomplished.

    By Microsoft limiting releases OEMs can now sell their own phones with a price advantage on the platform.

    As requirements for continuum shrink, more companies can bring phones to more markets that differentiate from ubiquitous android.

    And of course people on the low end like myself have a real choice beyond spam. Some people don't like spam and without windows phone that's the only choice.( see Monty Python's Spam skit as it perfectly shows what choice we would really have.)
    aximtreo likes this.
    02-04-2016 12:25 PM
  11. DarthVedder's Avatar
    I don't get this. Of course we care, even if we are not employees or have a financial stake.

    Why I care:

    1. I like the platform and I want to see it grow and succeed. Microsoft might still be (barely) working on it, but without new users the platform will never be attractive to independent developers and we will never get new experiences with our phones. Sure, I can receive emails, take pictures, make calls and text just fine, but I wan't to be able to do far more than that.
    2. Yes, my Icon still works fine and I can still use it. But it is supposed to be a modern flagship smartphone, so I wan't to be able to do with it the same things other people do with their flagship phones, and I just can't. That affects me.
    02-04-2016 01:18 PM
  12. WillysJeepMan's Avatar
    Doom and gloom posts are many and widespread, no denying that

    Here are the facts as I see it:
    1. Windows 10 mobile is released for new phones but under constant development to upgrade older phones
    2. Developing for W10M is still ongoing and will before some time as many news seem to indicate
    3. New 3rd party hardware manufacturers are releasing new handsets with W10M, latest being VAIO
    4. Lumia sales have reduced in the past year or so


    Now kindly answer these questions before replying to this thread. Or at least go through these questions and musings before rattling off another W10M is dead post

    1. Are you a Microsoft employee directly or indirectly working in the mobile division or W10M OS development team? If yes, then your job could be at stake if W10M fails and no units are sold.
    2. Are you a person working directly or indirectly at a Nokia/Microsoft customer care centre? If yes, then if MS mobile fails, you could be out of a job.
    3. Are you a Microsoft salesperson working directly or indirectly with the MS mobile division? If yes, then your job could be on the line in the future if the mobile division is cancelled due to low sales
    4. Are you shareholder of MS shares? If yes and your shares portfolio is strictly MS only, then your future shares value could drop by a tiny margin if W10M dies
    5. Are you MS store employee or indirectly work at a MS store selling MS products? If yes, your livelihood could potentially be at risk if W10M is declared dead and buried
    6. Are you a worker at MS repair centres for Windows mobiles? If yes, then your earnings could reduce in the future due to reduced sales and eventual zero sales of Lumia handsets
    7. Are you a MS app developer who depends entirely or nearly entirely on your app revenue from windows mobile apps? If yes, then your source of revenue might reduce if MS mobile sales plummet to 0


    If however you are none of these, then why should it matter to you that Windows mobile sales have fallen?
    You could be a student or an office worker or an electrician or an architect or a retired army major or anything except those above. So if MS sells 4.5 million phones or 45 million, why should it affect you?

    You have a windows phone already, don't you? It's working, isn't it? Even if it doesn't work any more, you can always get a new one, right? The only time you will need to be worried is if all worldwide sales were cancelled and all windows phone stocks were destroyed and all spare parts were also destroyed. Then and only then will you need to start worrying

    And you know what? My lumia still works. My local customer care centre still exists. The telcom companies still support windows phones. The local mobile stores still sell windows phones.

    So kindly reconsider declaring that windows mobile is dead. It's not. It is plain to see it is not. Just this week we got 10586.71 build and there is a rumour of build 10586.104 next week. The platform is evolving, not dying.

    Take this analogy of the caterpillar. MS has collected a lot of information on how to get the mobile right. It's digesting and changing. Right now it is in the pupal stage. Do we know what is inside? We kind of do because of insider program. Do we know the final form? No, we can't know now. The butterfly has yet to fully develop and sprout the wings.

    Let the butterfly develop and grow. Shouting at it while it is developing in the chrysalis that it is dead or dying does not help.

    So be patient, be observant and thank you
    Quite an apologetic piece. I find your attitude regarding customers cavalier and shortsighted.

    Many criticize Apple customers for being "sheep"... they accuse Apple customers of being mindless followers at best, or shallow fashion-seekers as worst. Nowhere in the equation is there consideration that customers are loyal to Apple because of the products they offer and the follow-on service and support. Of course you can point out areas where Apple has fallen short. But the important point is, Apple doesn't have to be perfect... they just have to be better than their competition.

    You can flippantly dismiss the concerns of customers of Windows Mobile devices... or worse, claim that their concerns are not valid. But that will have a ripple effect into other areas of Microsoft's business. How many people who have been left high-and-dry by Microsoft are not only no longer Microsoft customers, but have influenced others to consider the alternatives.

    In these highly competitive markets no company can afford to brush off customers.

    Your claim that "Windows mobile is not dead" rings hollow. The same thing can technically be said for the Surface RT and Surface 2. But it would be foolish for anyone to buy one at regular price now.

    But I get it, it is easier to try to get customers to lower the bar of their expectations than it is to get Microsoft to raise the bar on what they deliver.
    02-04-2016 05:08 PM
  13. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Dead in the marketplace is when the product is so obsolete that there are no spare parts, will not function with any current standard and it's limited to collector status. As far as I know, only analog phones fit this bill. Windows Mobile (WinCE), Symbian, BlackBerry OS 7 and webOS still have functional email clients and web browsers while PalmOS Treos & Centros can still make phone calls. Think about that before calling Windows Mobile 10 dead.
    02-04-2016 05:31 PM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    Ask WebOS users whether it mattered to them when that platform died.
    02-04-2016 05:38 PM
  15. DarthVedder's Avatar
    so the only defense left is to argue semantics and the meaning of the word "dead"... This is really where we are.
    02-04-2016 05:47 PM
  16. xandros9's Avatar
    so the only defense left is to argue semantics and the meaning of the word "dead"... This is really where we are.
    not really.

    If I called iOS dead and people pointed out how dead didn't really cover it then that doesn't mean iOS's only defense is whether dead means this or that.
    Guytronic, a5cent, teckris and 2 others like this.
    02-04-2016 08:14 PM
  17. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Ask WebOS users whether it mattered to them when that platform died.
    I am one of those webOS users. It's not a primary device anymore but my Pre3 still works fine for many tasks. Still does Exchange email better than anything else before or since.
    02-04-2016 08:42 PM
  18. Guytronic's Avatar
    Partially shelved or reduced effort may fit better than "dead" from what I read.

    Who knows what Microsoft's intent is at this point.
    If they get out of the phone manufacturing business and move to support only for the mobile OS I don't believe that would be an expensive program.
    With any luck up and coming hardware manufacturers may embrace WM and help it run circles around Microsoft's earlier effort.
    02-04-2016 08:49 PM
  19. ScrubbyXD's Avatar
    Your claim that "Windows mobile is not dead" rings hollow. The same thing can technically be said for the Surface RT and Surface 2. But it would be foolish for anyone to buy one at regular price now.
    You were doing so well until you got here. You cannot equate products out of manufacture with an OS that is not being developed with products currently being developed, with new ones announced as recently as yesterday with an OS that is actively being developed. Implying that they are equally both dead is ludicrous.

    Apple fans,
    Not everyone can afford your beloved Apple products. For those who cannot(or will not), we have few options and we appreciate windows being one of them. Now I realize for people such as yourself consider us "poor people" beneath your notice. Is it dead to you? Fine. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    "Windows Phone is dead" people,
    Please stop trying to dissuade developers or OEMs who may choose to support the only viable alternative to Spam (read android). That is all this "Dead" bullstuff does.

    I know my comments are inflammatory but consider I realize some may not mean "windows phone is dead" in that way. However, the whole thing is dismissive of the opinions and choices of people who do not have the choice of Apple and face the possibility of only one choice. Those who (as I have said) find Windows Phone a viable and preferable alternative to ubiquitous Android and Big Brother Google. The argument smells of arrogance and I'm out of patience with it.
    02-04-2016 09:00 PM
  20. Kram Sacul's Avatar
    Windows Phone is not dead. I use it every day on my 3 Lumia devices. Even if MS were to pull the plug on the store it would still be my favorite OS and live on as the really great OS that didn't catch on.

    Windows Mobile... I have no idea. Never used it and have no interest in it. From what I've heard I'm not missing much.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    02-04-2016 09:26 PM
  21. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    Try explaining to the anti-Microsoft media out there that wants to spread their hatred and bigotry throughout the internet. Every tech article site on the web wanted to spell its death. So now, most people who read those articles are now even more turned off and won't consider W10 & loyal users are leaving en masse. It's hard to stay optimistic, so I'm glad this post is here. Glad to read optimism on the internet for a change!!!
    02-04-2016 09:39 PM
  22. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    From all these posts, the first thing I can say is I am learning quite a few things

    Before saying anything else, I rather not bring comparisons with Apple or Android. I find quite a number of people have differing opinions about them

    Kevin Rush, good points. Exaggeration is quite the device used by media companies and some posters in this forum and elsewhere
    Br1t: I'm not sure I understood your first point but I got your second point - more customer base lead to better chances of faster app updates and more apps coming to the platform.
    PepperDotNet: your posts are always welcome and enlightening
    DarthVedder: more users, better apps. And increased capabilities and features for flagship phones.
    WillysJeepMan: I hadn't thought the way you have done but I can see your points. My main aim was to understand the underlying reasons why a few individuals would keep saying dead/dying when there is no direct connection. But you are quite right in saying MS needs to raise their bar rather than us consumers lowering our expectations and compromising.
    fatclue_98: Well put and thank you
    aximtreo and aXross like this.
    02-04-2016 11:18 PM
  23. Saijin_Naib's Avatar
    I smelled webOS talk, so I'm here.
    I can rant for days about why webOS phones were the greatest mobile phones ever devised.
    I can also rant for days about why the death of FireFoxOS spells dark times for everyone across every mobile OS.

    As for Windows Phone? I sincerely doubt we'll see it die any time soon. I honestly believe that the UWP apps will revolutionize things and attract more people to the platform, but I also believe Microsoft really need a firm kick in the *** to get their head back in the game. The state of W10M is absolutely shameful and the killing of awesome features that has occurred since WP7.8 is abhorrent.

    Will I move off the platform any time soon? Absolutely not. The device and the OS allow me to work (mostly) fluidly in a way I (mostly) want.

    Is it as nice as webOS was? Nope, nothing is.

    Do I feel like I have ownership and control of my device and data like I did with FireFoxOS?
    Nope.

    Does it prevent me from doing the work I need to do?
    Nope. So I'll stick with it.
    02-05-2016 01:47 AM
  24. Deepak's Avatar
    It'll surely matter to me. I have always openly hated Android and iOS. I always talk negative about both these OSs and the phones which have them installed. When everyone had gone crazy about Moto line up, I was like "what's so special about that ugly stuff!" My sister was a little annoyed with me when she had bought a high-end Samsung phone and I didn't acknowledge it. My bad, I know. But she didn't mind it for too long. Everyone around me has now accepted the fact that Android and iOS don't matter to me at all. Such an attitude of mine took a really amusing turn (not for me) when a friend of mine played a prank on me. He simply put a back cover on his phone which made it look exactly like iPhone 6. And to his surprise, I was like 😶 when he might have expected me to be like 😲 or 😵. Everyone present at that moment were very surprised at my reaction. Lol. They even tease me in the name of Cortana since I had given a presentation on WP in my CS class.

    So, if WM dies, I'll have no option left but to change my choices and attitude which I certainly don't want to do. I hope WM doesn't go BB way.

    I am also hopeful that Microsoft's new strategies will succeed and WM will compete with Android head-to-head.
    Nogitsune Micah likes this.
    02-05-2016 02:24 AM
  25. avengerxp's Avatar
    Actually, My Argument would be that Windows Mobile is the next big thing that is coming... With Windows 10 PCs around the world, The finished Windows 10 OS will become a major hit! No matter if the Lumia line dies out and Surface phones comes into play, Windows as a mobile OS will grow in numbers and so will be the apps.

    Given that people find it easy to sync with their computers and sport a phone that could also double as a laptop (of course MS will make continuum the thing on their next phone lineup) I'm seeing how Windows mobile will become "The phone".. look at the number of 3rd party manufacturers making windows phones...
    02-05-2016 03:48 AM
119 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. Why isn't my task bar working after updating to Windows 10?
    By Windows Central Question in forum Windows 10
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-23-2016, 02:54 PM
  2. I would have loved to seen this design on a Lumia
    By Jefe32 in forum Windows 10 Mobile
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-15-2016, 08:47 AM
  3. Phone stuck in reboot loop (w10m)
    By Windows Central Question in forum Windows 10 Mobile Insider Preview
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-14-2016, 04:57 AM
  4. Is there a character limit in the
    By Windows Central Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-13-2016, 06:18 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD