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03-25-2016 01:42 PM
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  1. Paul1266's Avatar
    Well I am sorry that both of you feel that you were unsuccessful in shutting the dissenters down. C'est la vie.

    I hold people an companies and individuals to a reasonable, in my opinion, ethical standard and Microsoft has failed with flying colours several times. It saddens me that there are people out there that back up this behaviour and I consider it a sad reflection on modern society and the tech community.

    It is certainly not helpful for Microsoft in the long run that they receive feedback that leads them to behave in such a way. It is not sustainable to alienate significant numbers of your customers so regularly.

    People seeking to excuse or post rationalise this behaviour should consider its implications in the long run.
    Final final post on this thread (I promise) but I just had to stand back and admire the pompous, condescending tone of this post - read it back to yourself preferably in your approximation of James Earl Jones voice...see what i mean? kudos my friend and adieu..
    03-25-2016 08:06 AM
  2. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Final final post on this thread (I promise) but I just had to stand back and admire the pompous, condescending tone of this post - read it back to yourself preferably in your approximation of James Earl Jones voice...see what i mean? kudos my friend and adieu..
    The only thing coming close to "pompous behavior" - in a skewed mind nonetheless - in that paragraph was the one sentence "I hold people an companies and individuals to a reasonable, in my opinion, ethical standard" and he included the "in my opinion" part to give it a balanced tone!

    This goes to show how skewed and unpredictable people's minds are and how weird of a grasp they have on logic.
    I was wondering how Trump is winning the Republican nomination despite EVERYTHING he stands for, and then you come here and realize that Trump actually is not unexpected, but a completely natural result of a large part of of humanity's way of thinking.
    Kubanarin and theefman like this.
    03-25-2016 08:36 AM
  3. John20212's Avatar
    If you want to be exact the 1020 was a Windows Phone 8.0 device not a Windows Phone 8.1 device.
    No, this is being exact:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...vwjQLAN08#t=33

    "to all devices running WP8.1"

    Not all devices released with 8.1.

    The Lumia 1020 is running WP8.1.
    AdrianGroza and kubiaxk like this.
    03-25-2016 09:01 AM
  4. erictrinh276's Avatar
    Wrong. I am not a fan boy, just level headed and someone who runs their own business.

    The quote in your post mentions support for three years. People are getting confused. Support DOES NOT mean the company is obliged to offer OS updates. The only support they are obliged to provide are security updates and patches. There has been a recent court case where Samsung were put in the dock to answer why phones of 12 - 18 months old weren't updated to latest OS. It turns out the only OS they have to support is the one it came with by providing security and patches / bug fixes. I have a couple of android phones. A Galaxy ace, as a spare, that came with 4.2.2. It's just a year old. Have I seen an OS update? No! Just patches. I also have a Galaxy tab, around 18 months old, that's stuck on Jelly Bean. Any OS update? Nope.

    Support for older devices also means fewer new ones sold. How is a software company or an OEM supposed to recoup, or ofset costs for development. All of this can also be read along with the so called promise by MSFT. There was no promise. People once again see something shiny and go into Magpie mode without reading the caveat's quite clearly posted. Admittedly it isn't nice to be left out, but a device 3-4 years old is going to start lagging behind. As said in a couple of posts in this thread, the older devices are chewing through batteries. I guess they are having to work harder.
    watch this and tell me if they promised or not:


    When you said this: "Support for older devices also means fewer new ones sold"
    means you're paid to defend M$.
    As a consumer/customer, why do you care if they sell more new phones?
    I don't care if Apple sells millions of iPhones, or Samsung sells millions of Galaxy phones.
    All I care is my phone is supported as stated by its maker.
    And why do you compare with Android OEMs?
    Why don't you compare with Apple who updates its 4 year-old phone?
    Why don't you compare with the Nexus line which gets updated as soon as new Android version is released?
    John20212 and theefman like this.
    03-25-2016 09:03 AM
  5. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    so now Microsoft is getting hammered for not living up to their promises... If they would have released it to those phones, they'd be hammered for delivering an OS that's crap because it doesn't run "buttery smooth"... People will always find something to b1tch about on Microsoft.

    To be clear : I agree on the part that Microsoft had issues on the communication part during the whole Insider Program and that they shouldn't have actually made the bold promise that Windows 10 Mobile would come to all Lumias...

    But again, what would you rather have : Windows Phone 8.1 running decent on your phone or a crippled version of Windows 10 mobile where features were removed because of the phone hardware?

    Then to all people talking about moving to Android or iOS : getting updates on Android phones is just as rare as the Loch Ness monster (see this thread on Android Central) and if you want to go to iOS, good luck finding a phone sub 300 € (don't bother looking, I just checked the Apple website and the cheapest is the 6 SE at 489 €). So no, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

    Also people : it's just a phone. The quality of life won't degrade if you don't get Windows 10 Mobile. If you do want it, get a new phone.
    People would have accepted acceptable performance. If the 5S doesn't run as smooth as an 6S it's OK. You still have the hardware you paid for, you still have the apps you need, and the 5S will actually continue to be just as usable as the SE. I don't believe the performance of the 5S will degrade to the point of uselessness even two major iOS versions down the road.

    So Microsoft doesn't release anything for 2 years, and the next version that arrives won't be released for half the market...and will absolutely render half the market completely obsolete due to the restart of the Store.

    How come you guys never talk about the fact that Microsoft leaving older devices behind is not comparable to the way Apple updates its devices? Which version of iPhone is now unable to download and use the latest WhatsApp because of a restarted App Store? Which version of the Galaxy S series lacks WhatsApp? (WhatsApp is available to Android friggin' 2.2 and up!) I believe the SIII more or less has access to all the apps in the Play Store. Hell, the S2 has official upgrade to 4.1 JellyBean and that gives the 2011 phone access to almost all of today's apps!

    Care to do a comparison?

    As I said before, I find the best running version of Windows 10 Mobile a disgrace to the legacy of Windows Phone 8 and 8.1. It's a half-baked, app-less, glitchy Android wannabe. The 1000th failure - the recent forced obsolesce of devices - is just the cherry on top of Microsoft's betrayal of trust.
    Last edited by AgentTheGreat; 03-25-2016 at 09:36 AM.
    03-25-2016 09:14 AM
  6. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    No, this is being exact:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...vwjQLAN08#t=33

    "to all devices running WP8.1"

    Not all devices released with 8.1.

    The Lumia 1020 is running WP8.1.
    I never said anything about running 8.1 I said the 1020 was ane 8.0 device out of the box that was later upgraded to 8.1
    03-25-2016 09:15 AM
  7. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Apple have to deal with their own issues 5S and above is 64-bit and older stuff is 32-bit.
    03-25-2016 09:29 AM
  8. AdrianGroza's Avatar
    As an owner of a Lumia 435 I must say I am a bit staggered by the fact that Microsoft chose not to upgrade all the powerful lumias to an official windows 10 build.I bought the cheapest Windows phone and I find that I get an official windows build and others don't,all of this while my lumia has like 2010 specs (a dumb dual core 1 gb ram and a medicore at best screen).While getting an official w10m build makes me happy,it also makes me sad because with so many windows phones left in the dust developers will go away even more (Microsoft already has a minuscule mobile market share),making my phone a dinosaur (from certain points of view it already is).As far as UWP is concerned,don't be fooled,yes it is meant to hasten the process of migrating and running apps on a variety of devices but supporting an app on w10m still requires aditional coding,UWP or not,and with such a small user base developers simply have no reaseon to work extra hours to port the app.
    theefman, kubiaxk and John20212 like this.
    03-25-2016 09:33 AM
  9. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    As an owner of a Lumia 435 I must say I am a bit staggered by the fact that Microsoft chose not to upgrade all the powerful lumias to an official windows 10 build.I bought the cheapest Windows phone and I find that I get an official windows build and others don't,all of this while my lumia has like 2010 specs (a dumb dual core 1 gb ram and a medicore at best screen).While getting an official w10m build makes me happy,it also makes me sad because with so many windows phones left in the dust developers will go away even more (Microsoft already has a minuscule mobile market share),making my phone a dinosaur (from certain points of view it already is).As far as UWP is concerned,don't be fooled,yes it is meant to hasten the process of migrating and running apps on a variety of devices but supporting an app on w10m still requires aditional coding,UWP or not,and with such a small user base developers simply have no reaseon to work extra hours to port the app.
    I can only say from my experience. My 735 worked great on win10 but while my wife's icon, a flagship, ran win10 decent it wasn't as smooth or as fast as the cheaper 735.
    I've tried to figure why but I can't find an answer. It has to be something with the older hardware, maybe. I Suppose it could even have something to do with Verizon's network, just guessing.
    03-25-2016 09:45 AM
  10. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    I can only say from my experience. My 735 worked great on win10 but while my wife's icon, a flagship, ran win10 decent it wasn't as smooth or as fast as the cheaper 735.
    I've tried to figure why but I can't find an answer. It has to be something with the older hardware, maybe. I Suppose it could even have something to do with Verizon's network, just guessing.
    Same glitches and delays can be seen on an unlocked, international version of 1520. When it has issues running on the more powerful hardware, the only thing to blame is the software.
    theefman and John20212 like this.
    03-25-2016 09:58 AM
  11. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    Same glitches and delays can be seen on an unlocked, international version of 1520. When it has issues running on the more powerful hardware, the only thing to blame is the software.
    It could also be that since win10 is a fairly new OS not everything is sorted out. She kept win10 cause she loves it.
    I figure as win10 grows it will be force. Either way if our phones don't get upgraded I can understand and respect the decision MS makes.
    03-25-2016 10:05 AM
  12. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Microsoft said it plans to make an upgrade of W10M available to all WP8.1 devices. Fine, I'll give you that. They never said existing devices would get Redstone, or later upgrades.

    Which devices that came with WP8.1 (or were upgraded to WP8.1 over their lifetime) are there not an Insider build available for?

    If you have one of those, Microsoft has let you down. Otherwise, you're just complaining instead of taking the solution which is available for you.
    03-25-2016 10:14 AM
  13. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    You guys have gotten why off topic here, The bottom line is they told us they would support our phones with an update and now they are backing out, and if that was not bad enough they are kicking us out of the insider program also. They just stopped the car opened the door and kicked us to the curb and drove off.It is not so much that I feel they cheated us as they used us.
    kubiaxk, Sick Freak and John20212 like this.
    03-25-2016 10:29 AM
  14. gouboy's Avatar
    MS defender logic : "MS is right by not releasing Win10 to older phone. It will make the phone runs with so many problem that they will be angry at MS by doing so, and the media will write about how MS screw up with their upgrades, how will they trust MS anymore"



    But these same people are angry right now because MS wont upgrade their phones and leave them with a soon to be dead platform, bet they dont trust MS anymore either. oh, and the media is writing about it right now too.



    Either way, MS screw up really hard this time.
    03-25-2016 10:33 AM
  15. jacobdrj's Avatar
    If a company wants to cultivate a cache of goodwill with customers, existing and/or prospective, it is important to remember that while it is often better to ask forgiveness than permission, it is also true that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver than to over-promise and under-deliver...
    03-25-2016 10:34 AM
  16. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    You guys have gotten why off topic here, The bottom line is they told us they would support our phones with an update and now they are backing out, and if that was not bad enough they are kicking us out of the insider program also. They just stopped the car opened the door and kicked us to the curb and drove off.It is not so much that I feel they cheated us as they used us.
    At least they tried to include everyone and even let us consumers have a say. To me that was good enough. Sometimes things just don't work out. I find all the anger to be sad, there's so much more wrong in the world.
    Last edited by groady-ho baluzy; 03-25-2016 at 10:49 AM.
    03-25-2016 10:34 AM
  17. wilks7's Avatar
    now that wp10 has been released to the masses...now its time for wp10 only apps to be unleashed to the new store and apps no longer going to get updated for the old outdated 8.1...let the squeeze begin
    03-25-2016 10:53 AM
  18. 497362's Avatar
    So sad, I thought my 925 would get upgraded. But, I have to admit, I'm not unhappy with a phone where absolutely everything works perfectly, except for some websites. Everything working is more important than an upgrade.
    kubiaxk and groady-ho baluzy like this.
    03-25-2016 10:55 AM
  19. 497362's Avatar
    It's just that this affects so few people. Soon, most wp10 users will be new to WP and not even know earlier versions exist. But there will be us poor left-out small minority with wp8, and never to get a decent web browser.
    03-25-2016 11:11 AM
  20. gouboy's Avatar
    It's just that this affects so few people. Soon, most wp10 users will be new to WP and not even know earlier versions exist. But there will be us poor left-out small minority with wp8, and never to get a decent web browser.

    It affects half of windows phone total users.
    03-25-2016 11:18 AM
  21. Kevin Hill2's Avatar
    The thing is, the insider program is flawed, They are really only going to hear back from the ones having trouble, just take a look at the forums on this site, How many of them praise something compared to how many complain about something.
    Now I'm sure and they did say the lower ram phones would not get the update and that is very understandable and I'm sure a lot of you love your phones just the way they are. But for the rest of us that know anything about hardware and phones,I just can't except the lame excuses they are giving, When I, we know it is a load of Cow excrement.
    03-25-2016 11:26 AM
  22. Tim Stone's Avatar
    Everyone who knows me knows my loyalty to Microsoft, and more recently, the Windows 10 OS. I was a long time WinPhone user, and a part of the Insider program on all platforms from day 1. I've provided substantial feedback to MSFT, which they acknowledged was specific, to the point, and helpful in resolving issues.

    To this end, I used my Lumia Icon as an Insider, and worked with it daily. Unfortunately I had to make another phone my primary for business reasons, but I advocated for those needed apps to be available on the Windows 10 platform, often communicating directly with management and development teams.

    I paid every month to have an extra cellular line so I could continue testing the insider previews. I expected nothing from Verizon, and I was fine with the bugs and issues of preview versions. I had no problem getting updates as an insider, and had no need for my carrier to be involved other than to provide the ongoing connection.

    So after a year of paying for the extra line, providing input, etc., MSFT decides to drop us from the insider program. Am I OK with that ? Nope. Am I willing to invest in a new phone to continue testing for them ? Nope. What to do ? First step was to revert the phones to 8.1 with the available tool, box them up and put them on the shelf, and cancel the line. The second step is to remove my other computers from the Insider program and just work with official releases.

    I'm not out to bash the company, but some of the decision makers are headed down a path which I don't need to follow. I'm not abandoning the brand, but I'm also through investing time and money into the process. My Surface Book, and my desktop, should meet all of my needs for a long time, coupled with an iPhone that does the job and is supplemented by an iPad.

    I've got over 30 years of experience as a developer, and beta tester, for software products. The current approach taken by MSFT and others just doesn't fit my style. No regrets, but no kudos either. And it would be nice if GabeAul would respond to tweets. It's just rude to put something out there and then ignore simple clarification questions.
    03-25-2016 11:28 AM
  23. Florin_Anghel's Avatar
    Hold on, now Skype as UWP is released, that means even more botched experience as they will ditch messaging.
    Talk about being cheated, but now we are robbed!
    03-25-2016 11:32 AM
  24. xandros9's Avatar
    Hold on, now Skype as UWP is released, that means even more botched experience as they will ditch messaging.
    Talk about being cheated, but now we are robbed!
    that's just another way of doing Skype, better suited for tablets and PC's as opposed to the task-focused phone.

    I wouldn't consider it thievery, just Microsoft.
    03-25-2016 11:39 AM
  25. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    It's just that this affects so few people. Soon, most wp10 users will be new to WP and not even know earlier versions exist. But there will be us poor left-out small minority with wp8, and never to get a decent web browser.
    That's assuming people will flock to Windows 10 Mobile in droves...that they will leave their iPhones and Droids behind to get what Microsoft offers on Windows 10 Mobile which is...nothing. Nothing really.

    If your optimism worked it would have worked for WP8. At least with WP8 Microsoft had a story to tell; a clear design language, smooth experience...now the OS is an under-powered Android that can't even perform glitch-free on last year's flagship.

    And the problem with the update is not so much the update itself as it is losing your apps on your 925 just like WP7 people lost the apps on their devices.
    John20212 and AdrianGroza like this.
    03-25-2016 12:14 PM
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