03-25-2016 01:42 PM
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  1. Xaxxus's Avatar
    This decision was made by the INSIDER program. People were complaining about the poor performance on low end devices so microsoft decided to axe support.
    03-22-2016 08:30 AM
  2. Nelle Douville's Avatar
    This is getting silly. MS explained why, but evidently some would rather see it as a duplicitous conspiracy to shut them out of the upgrade. I'm no tech wizard, but the reasoning makes sense. At some point there is a matter of diminishing return on the effort expended.

    You can upgrade for a reasonable cost without going near a 950, although I went out and bought a 950 Saturday for this very reason. I accepted their rationale and dealt with it by buying a phone that fit their criteria, rather than whining and moaning about it.
    03-22-2016 08:33 AM
  3. slysy's Avatar
    I don't think poor performance on these devices is an acceptable excuse. This is basically admitting that they developed and released a software upgrade which performs worse than the previous version. If it doesn't perform well enough, they should improve the software. They are a software company after all :p
    Last edited by slysy; 03-22-2016 at 09:30 AM.
    theefman likes this.
    03-22-2016 08:37 AM
  4. jrdatrackstar1223's Avatar
    I think there is a division of people who are upset. Some are upset simply because of what Microsoft said about updating all devices officially (and at the minimum, through the Insider Program), while some are upset because they aren't updating PERFECTLY CAPABLE devices through the INSIDER program (ie Lumia Icon, HTC M8, Ativ SE, etc), while . I understand there are also limitations even with these devices (perfectly capable ones) because most OEMs didn't play ball with providing drivers, stock images, etc. However, the devices that had been receiving updates from the Insider Program (of the newer devices I mentioned) should not be cut off from updates. I also believe that it should be at the discretion of the USERS. I understand they have to code against any device they (Microsoft) "officially" support through the Insider Program (hence the whole reason for cutting so many devices), but devices with specs that are perfectly capable (that Microsoft KNOWS are perfectly capable) should be included (ESPECIALLY Lumia devices, seeing as Microsoft purchased Nokia).
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-22-2016 08:38 AM
  5. Andrew Fore's Avatar
    I agree with those saying that the reasons provided by MS were acceptable. Of course, now I am awaiting the expected class action lawsuit over this, even though it ought to be tossed out on it's ear.

    We have come to think that every pre-release promise is going to actually be followed through with. Companies have made pre-release promises for ages in all sorts of industries, only to find that when it comes to brass tacks, the technical implementation is not sustainable.

    Sure some of these phones can run the Windows Insider Preview (like the Icon, for instance), but in order to get updated firmware they have to be on an official release track from the cellular provider. If the providers aren't going to allow it because they don't feel that the certification process on their side is worth the man-hours when compared to the number of customers affected then don't blame Microsoft, blame the provider.
    03-22-2016 08:42 AM
  6. Sick Freak's Avatar
    Microsoft didn't cheat anyone.
    If anyone feels cheated then you misunderstand.

    Microsoft simply can no longer coddle devices from 2013.
    Continued support for these boat anchors just wasn't in the cards.
    We bought them we liked them we should appreciate what we have.

    Things die.
    Tires wear out.
    The weather constantly changes.
    Electronic devices reach end of life.

    Microsoft has done what they can and finally realized there was a need for a cutoff.
    It's time to enter the next room.
    You can stay here or you can embrace a better future.
    If someone makes a promise and then chooses not to fulfill that promise, we (or at least most of us) call that a lie. Microsoft made a promise and chose not to make good on that. I know multiple people that bought new Lumia devices late last year and were promised on Microsoft's own website that they would be eligible for the upgrade. But now those customers are stuck with a device that Microsoft refuses to officially upgrade W10 - and the devices were bought less than 4 months ago from the store.
    Kubanarin, theefman and hardywang like this.
    03-22-2016 08:57 AM
  7. Sick Freak's Avatar
    Thanks!

    Old business proverb:
    What's promised by word of mouth and what's guaranteed in writing are two different things.
    Actually, it was promised in writing too... multiple times.
    03-22-2016 08:58 AM
  8. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    Actually, it was promised in writing too... multiple times.
    You're wrong. Microsoft wrote "despite OEM, carriers and single models iussues"
    03-22-2016 09:01 AM
  9. levy shikukui's Avatar
    To end this and to bring back peoples trust on Microsoft devises ,I think on my opinion is to start manufacturing other cheap,mid and high end phone which can support windows 10,Microsoft has resource ,they should not give excuses of not producing phones like fellow competitor Samsung,Htc and Lg among others, for sure it is a shame for a big company like this to keep as waiting for 1 year only to lunch lumia 950,which still cant hustle with other manufacture,I speak so because we have been here since Nokia and we loved the hardware ,so please do something.
    03-22-2016 09:02 AM
  10. Sick Freak's Avatar
    You're wrong. Microsoft wrote "despite OEM, carriers and single models iussues"
    I personally saw it advertised on their own store for the devices and they also posted it on their official Twitter account. It was also in a PPT presentation made by MSFT. Others have shared screenshots & videos. I've also heard mention of multiple other sources of Microsoft officially stating, in writing, that they'd upgrade all Lumias running WP8.1.

    It's really sad that in today's world, so many accept dishonesty as good business.
    theefman likes this.
    03-22-2016 09:11 AM
  11. Paul1266's Avatar
    I personally saw it advertised on their own store for the devices and they also posted it on their official Twitter account. It was also in a PPT presentation made by MSFT. Others have shared screenshots & videos. I've also heard mention of multiple other sources of Microsoft officially stating, in writing, that they'd upgrade all Lumias running WP8.1.

    It's really sad that in today's world, so many accept dishonesty as good business.
    I'd just settle for big businesses paying their taxes. Struggling to remember the Halcyon days of benevolent big business. Could you remind me when that was?
    03-22-2016 09:14 AM
  12. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    This is getting silly. MS explained why, but evidently some would rather see it as a duplicitous conspiracy to shut them out of the upgrade. I'm no tech wizard, but the reasoning makes sense. At some point there is a matter of diminishing return on the effort expended.

    You can upgrade for a reasonable cost without going near a 950, although I went out and bought a 950 Saturday for this very reason. I accepted their rationale and dealt with it by buying a phone that fit their criteria, rather than whining and moaning about it.
    On top of which, they know how many of these earlier devices still get used. So if you add that to the equation, the costs of developing 10 for them would far outweigh the gains.
    03-22-2016 09:22 AM
  13. Matt Dargis's Avatar
    MS kind screwed all there Windows Phone users. w10m still has way too many crashes and inconsistencies. Every time I do a voice search with Cortana, it crashes. Camera crashes a lot. Edge is the worst mobile browser I have used since I went with windows phone over 5 years ago. The maps app gets stuck while giving directions. Etc...

    w10m is a huge disappointment. But I hate apple products and the last Android I had would lag after a month of use.
    Jason Rosenthal likes this.
    03-22-2016 09:27 AM
  14. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    You're wrong. Microsoft wrote "despite OEM, carriers and single models iussues"
    The also added 'carriers, OEM's AND OTHER FACTORS'. Nowhere in the full statement is the word PROMISE seen. Nowhere does it say 'GUARANTEED'.

    The crux of the statement is 'OTHER FACTORS'.

    There is your caveat. Like Maurizio, I have not seen any official documents stating promise. The ones I have seen the word promise, is from tech websites. No doubt added in for click bait.

    A lot of the misunderstanding comes from not reading the full article, to just skimming over the bad stuff and focusing on the positive, which the human brain would choose to do, without seeing the caveats. That's how many companies screw people over. Reading T's&C's is seen as tedious, hence people don't see the 'other factors' shown in the documentation.

    On top of all of this, you have the devices that are stuck with 10586 for good, and then those who get to jump on the Redstone bandwagon. Are we going to have the same moaning when that happens????
    03-22-2016 09:33 AM
  15. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    MS kind screwed all there Windows Phone users. w10m still has way too many crashes and inconsistencies. Every time I do a voice search with Cortana, it crashes. Camera crashes a lot. Edge is the worst mobile browser I have used since I went with windows phone over 5 years ago. The maps app gets stuck while giving directions. Etc...

    w10m is a huge disappointment. But I hate apple products and the last Android I had would lag after a month of use.
    Yes, it is buggy. BUT...the SAME users were criticising MSFT for DELAYING RELEASE. As I posted a long time ago. Be careful what you wish for.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-22-2016 09:37 AM
  16. Paul1266's Avatar
    I do find it strange how many people there are on here with years old (often low end) devices are suddenly going to go out and buy the latest greatest on another platform. All of a sudden spending big bucks on a new device is no longer an issue....what a load of old (insert your own expletive). Simply put, no OEM is going to give much love to customers who cling on to their hardware year after year expecting continued support. Most manufacturers (Apple excluded) are barely making margin if at all. They ALL want you to buy a new phone, as often a as possible and certainly not every 3 years or so.
    03-22-2016 09:38 AM
  17. Srenia Ia's Avatar
    Windows 10 on Mobile should have been restricted to only 64 bit ARM processors. The only reason 32 bit ARMS where included was for IOT developement.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-22-2016 09:42 AM
  18. Pradeep Kumar Reddy Vellampati's Avatar
    Not only Lumia Users, they cheated HTC users also :(
    03-22-2016 09:43 AM
  19. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    Not only Lumia Users, they cheated HTC users also :(
    Maybe HTC shares some blame. The only thing you were probably cheated of was a bad experience on win10. Maybe some devices did have issues. I know my 735 & Toshiba satellite pro do very well on win10 but the wife's Lenovo ideapad kinda sucks on it.
    03-22-2016 09:50 AM
  20. Nelle Douville's Avatar
    I can recall minimum requirements for new versions of Windows. Why is this different from a pc that couldn't upgrade?

    If you were MS, what would be your preference? Put it on machines and have a herd of people complaining about the upgrade, or confine it to machines that meet minimum standards to run it effectively?
    Guytronic, ladydias and RumoredNow like this.
    03-22-2016 10:16 AM
  21. Kubanarin's Avatar
    It's about direction, consistency and trust. Regardless of how you view Microsofts statements on the upgrade path of existing devices they managed to give a great number of people the wrong idea. That is either poor communication and planning or wilful deception. Unfortunately both yield the same result regardless of intention.

    How can anyone, honestly, say that they trust Microsoft when deciding to invest in a platform. Flip flopping over WM 6.1 to WP7 to WP8 to WM10 as well as Onedrive storage, Office 365 storage limit. I would probably include the Windows 8 with Metro.

    The direction is all over the place and consistency is nowhere to be seen and therefore trust is nonexistent.

    Anyway - the apologists will say that evetything will better now and it is up to each person to decide what to believe.
    03-22-2016 10:34 AM
  22. skydiverian's Avatar
    As for MSFT apologists. Not by a long chalk. I run my own business, and you cannot afford to keep old stuff running. It is business suicide. How Many VCR or TV repair shops do you see these days? Very, very few. Why? Tech has moved on to dvd and bluray and it doesn't make sense to support / repair an older device. Especially when you factor in the price of a new device. TV's are the same. The only exception to this are cd and vinyl. Vinyl has made a huge comeback in the UK!

    Apologists no, realist yes.
    Good analogy and one I can relate to. I worked for the last 6 years at a TV repair shop, until we closed at the end of last year due to lack of revenue (because people didn't want stuff repaired, or we increasingly couldn't get the spares we needed). We attempted to diversify and it didn't work, neither was there any point in continuing when we were losing money - it simply made sense to leave the sinking ship before it sank.

    Weirdly it's the really old stuff we had less reliance on, we had a Betamax recorder in around a year ago that we could fix and plenty of 1970's audio kit that we could repair thanks to being pretty simple inside.

    So far as Win 10 is concerned it seems like the Krait CPU core simply isn't up to the job, or the update is being blocked/held up by the carrier or OEM.

    The only device where there appears to be a good case to complain is the Blu Win Jr LTE - the non US version in particular has the necessary specification to run it (the UK model is 1GB RAM, 8GB SSD, 410 CPU) and is still listed on amazon UK as having 8.1 "but soon after will have a Windows 10 upgrade". I can see big problems if that doesn't get sorted
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-22-2016 10:46 AM
  23. Nelle Douville's Avatar
    Why would they wilfully deceive people? The only way that line of thinking works is if they wanted to get people to buy the devices in hopes of. I doubt many devices were bought for that reason, and I doubt it ever crossed their minds.

    If MS is guilty of anything, it is of declaring phones eligible before wholesale testing. It's a marketing error, which is why when we beg for transparency and information from the company, they are wise to hold their plans close. I hope people remember this next time they complain about a lack of information on the future course of Windows Mobile. Sometimes silence spares future criticism.
    Guytronic and ladydias like this.
    03-22-2016 10:49 AM
  24. zhris's Avatar
    Seems like about a third of WP users are screaming "We were promised W10 and aren't getting it, rawr!"
    About another third is screaming "We have W10 and it's slow/ buggy, rawr!"

    Just think about that for a bit...
    Guytronic and Nelle Douville like this.
    03-22-2016 10:53 AM
  25. djarchow's Avatar
    This decision was made by the INSIDER program. People were complaining about the poor performance on low end devices so microsoft decided to axe support.
    This makes it sound like the decision was totally on the insiders. The way this actually worked was Microsoft looked at the feedback and decided it was going to be too much work, to expensive, etc. etc. to fix the problems so decided not to upgrade that phone. That is a valid business decision but they are going to have to live with the negative feedback.
    03-22-2016 10:57 AM
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