03-25-2016 01:42 PM
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  1. Paul1266's Avatar
    Common sense and the ability to see things clearly. If something doesn't work well on your phone why do you want it? If it was me and I was that worried about it I would call or send MS a very nice polite detailed grievance. Maybe they will do something for you. You never know.
    Because it's easier to come on here, complain and start chucking insults about.
    CrownSeven likes this.
    03-22-2016 02:47 PM
  2. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    OK. Let's see if I understand what's going on.

    - Certain devices were left out of receiving something called "Windows 10 Mobile, Official Update" because Microsoft determined that upgrading them could cause problems.
    - Those same phones, if the user wants, can download an app "Windows Insider" and receive the exact same build that was released as "Official."
    - Those same phones, if the user doesn't want, can continue running the current OS.

    Further:
    - If a user installed W10M Insider on their old device and it runs like crap, that's their fault.
    - If Microsoft automatically upgrades them and it runs like crap, that's Microsoft's fault.

    I really don't get all the whining and complaining. If you want Windows 10 Mobile on your device, what in the world is stopping you from getting it?
    03-22-2016 02:53 PM
  3. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Common sense and the ability to see things clearly. If something doesn't work well on your phone why do you want it? If it was me and I was that worried about it I would call or send MS a very nice polite detailed grievance. Maybe they will do something for you. You never know.
    This right here is the problem: when you say "I'll give you 3 years worth of updates" that's a selling point. People buy into your product ecosystem because they trust you keep your word. This is no different than promising a 20 megapixel camera, and installing a 5 megapixel one, except this cheat would be obvious on the day of release.

    So if Microsoft says "I promise you 10 years worth of updates on this device" I'm supposed to not take their word for it; I'm supposed to say "common sense says they can't keep their word on that". Sure, I'll say that. But that still makes Microsoft a crappy, lying company, that doesn't deserve my trust. Isn't it?
    Sick Freak and theefman like this.
    03-22-2016 02:54 PM
  4. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    OK. Let's see if I understand what's going on.

    - Certain devices were left out of receiving something called "Windows 10 Mobile, Official Update" because Microsoft determined that upgrading them could cause problems.
    - Those same phones, if the user wants, can download an app "Windows Insider" and receive the exact same build that was released as "Official."
    - Those same phones, if the user doesn't want, can continue running the current OS.

    Further:
    - If a user installed W10M Insider on their old device and it runs like crap, that's their fault.
    - If Microsoft automatically upgrades them and it runs like crap, that's Microsoft's fault.

    I really don't get all the whining and complaining. If you want Windows 10 Mobile on your device, what in the world is stopping you from getting it?
    I'll answer that: I am the guy who knows about the Insider program. I am a tech savvy guy. The rest of those using these devices, that maybe were recommended by us, are not going to get them after us telling them they'll receive 36 months of updates.

    It's not just about Windows 10 Mobile. As a matter of fact I'm not installing it and will keep running 8.1 until my 1320 runs out of juice, and then I'll decide to either choose an iPhone or an Android - most likely the latter. That's not even the point. The point, my friend, is the stream of broken promises; ones that keep happening over and over.

    Furthermore, if the update Microsoft promised for 3 years after release cannot be deemed good enough to run on my 2 year old device, it's their fault. They said we will update you for 36 months, and then their update is so bad that they themselves don't recommend it to the point they won't officially release it.

    You think everything is alright there?
    03-22-2016 02:59 PM
  5. Guytronic's Avatar
    Buyer beware...

    I'd still really like to see something written in a guarantee from Microsoft specifically promising continuing updates for older models.
    A talking head on a stage or a tweet or a blog means nothing against a legal promise inked somewhere in the bowels of the companies policy.

    I ask again where is the update promised or specified in writing?
    Show me the words?

    This disclaimer is all I see:
    capture.jpg
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-22-2016 03:10 PM
  6. MorganRW's Avatar
    If anyone has not figured it out yet, Lumia is dead. They released the 950 to zero fanfare and with an incomplete OS. They are focusing entirely on Surface Phone and are putting all their efforts into making a device and OS that is truly innovative. Now do you want that or do you want them to waste time working on 1 year or older devices that quite honestly are nothing special? If you want this platform to survive and grow then moving forward on something that was just a mind blowing as the Surface is the right call. If you insist that they spend time on hardware that was decent a year ago, then enjoy switching over to Android or iPhone in a couple of years when M decides to just develop apps for those platforms. Should M offer a discount on Surface phone to anyone who early adopted the Lumia platform? Sure but this is not likely. So stop whining and save your money for the Surface Phone.
    Pablo O likes this.
    03-22-2016 03:27 PM
  7. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Buyer beware...

    I'd still really like to see something written in a guarantee from Microsoft specifically promising continuing updates for older models.
    A talking head on a stage or a tweet or a blog means nothing against a legal promise inked somewhere in the bowels of the companies policy.

    I ask again where is the update promised or specified in writing?
    Show me the words?

    This disclaimer is all I see:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	124132
    And by the way maybe this answers your question:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=17945


    From the source:
    "Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date."
    The end of lifecycle is even listed there as 7/11/2017.

    Explicit referral to "updates...including security updates" trumps "features, apps and services".
    I guess I'll get ready for court.
    03-22-2016 03:28 PM
  8. Paul1266's Avatar
    And by the way maybe this answers your question:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=17945


    From the source:
    "Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date."
    The end of lifecycle is even listed there as 7/11/2017.

    Explicit referral to "updates...including security updates" trumps "features, apps and services".
    I guess I'll get ready for court.
    What about the note? Did you read to the end?? Do you ever read to the end??
    Guytronic likes this.
    03-22-2016 03:34 PM
  9. TheLumaniac's Avatar
    And by the way maybe this answers your question:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=17945


    From the source:
    "Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date."
    The end of lifecycle is even listed there as 7/11/2017.

    Explicit referral to "updates...including security updates" trumps "features, apps and services".
    I guess I'll get ready for court.
    There is always the possibility of receiving minor updates while you're still using WP8.1. Remember WP7.8?
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-22-2016 03:35 PM
  10. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    I don't bother to read beyond the first sentence or two.
    Microsoft EXPLICITLY SAID 36 months of updates. 1320 - my phone - came out February 2014, and therefore HAS TO BE UPDATED THROUGH 2017.
    I don't get you people; you don't own Microsoft. You - most of you - are not shareholders. What is it with you always taking their side? Can it be anything beyond sheer fanboyism?
    Infact you'll be updated till 2017. Insider 10586 should be close at the end of 2016.
    03-22-2016 03:38 PM
  11. Paul1266's Avatar
    Also from the source: "Update availability will also vary by country, region, and hardware capabilities". Don't just select the bits you like the sound of eh?
    03-22-2016 03:39 PM
  12. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    This right here is the problem: when you say "I'll give you 3 years worth of updates" that's a selling point. People buy into your product ecosystem because they trust you keep your word. This is no different than promising a 20 megapixel camera, and installing a 5 megapixel one, except this cheat would be obvious on the day of release.

    So if Microsoft says "I promise you 10 years worth of updates on this device" I'm supposed to not take their word for it; I'm supposed to say "common sense says they can't keep their word on that". Sure, I'll say that. But that still makes Microsoft a crappy, lying company, that doesn't deserve my trust. Isn't it?
    on the surface you're right. I see how one could be upset but I also read that MS would support them on 8.1 through 2017, if I read it right. That would be 3yrs of support on some of those devices.
    what I don't understand is if win10 sucks on those phones why does anyone want it?
    I was an insider and it ran well on the 735 but if sucked I wouldn't want it or ***** about it... Sometimes chit happens..
    If I was really wealthy I would buy all of you complaining a new win10 phone if that's all it took to make you happy and have a better life. So instead I'm going to light one up for all of you and send out positive vibes and karma instead.
    03-22-2016 03:40 PM
  13. chancooluk's Avatar
    And by the way maybe this answers your question:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=17945


    From the source:
    "Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date."
    The end of lifecycle is even listed there as 7/11/2017.

    Explicit referral to "updates...including security updates" trumps "features, apps and services".
    I guess I'll get ready for court.
    "For the Operating System" - Which is Windows Phone 8.1, not Windows 10 Mobile.

    Windows 10 Mobile is a different OS which is being offered to some Windows Phone 8.1 users as an "Upgrade".

    Windows Phone 8.1 may get security updates until 2018, but that doesn't mean it has to be updated to Windows 10 Mobile.
    Laura Knotek and RumoredNow like this.
    03-22-2016 03:43 PM
  14. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Also from the source: "Update availability will also vary by country, region, and hardware capabilities". Don't just select the bits you like the sound of eh?
    Sure, you're right. I won't be able to take them to court. So this "promise" means if I buy the device on day 1, and on day 2 they declare my hardware obsolete, the 36 months of updates is good for nothing. This solves the court issue, but not the trust issue.
    03-22-2016 03:45 PM
  15. chancooluk's Avatar
    So this "promise" means if I buy the device on day 1, and on day 2 they declare my hardware obsolete, the 36 months of updates is good for nothing.
    Hang on. I'm sure that there is some store somewhere in the world that is still selling new Lumia 920s and Lumia 520s. Should people buying those handsets today have a guaranteed 3-year software update plan? Despite the almost 4-year old hardware?
    03-22-2016 03:49 PM
  16. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    "For the Operating System" - Which is Windows Phone 8.1, not Windows 10 Mobile.

    Windows 10 Mobile is a different OS which is being offered to some Windows Phone 8.1 users as an "Upgrade".

    Windows Phone 8.1 may get security updates until 2018, but that doesn't mean it has to be updated to Windows 10 Mobile.
    You do realize that doesn't solve anything, right? When you hear Microsoft say it, and have it on their website to back it up, that "you'd get updates for 3 years" you, as a customer, say "I'll get the next version of this OS if it's released in the next 3 years". Sure you can read the fine print and see what they give you, is what they can get out of with an "update" that doesn't change anything but the font of a certain dialog in the Settings.

    I'm talking about the trust that is broken, not the money I could won in the court.
    03-22-2016 03:50 PM
  17. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Hang on. I'm sure that there is some store somewhere in the world that is still selling new Lumia 920s and Lumia 520s. Should people buying those handsets today have a guaranteed 3-year software update plan? Despite the almost 4-year old hardware?
    No, but they can expect to receive the next version of the OS if the next version is released from the original day their current OS was released. That's what everyone understood the day Microsoft talked about the 3 year update: that from the day Windows Phone 8.1 devices were originally released, if the next version was released within 3 years, they'd get the next version.

    What you all are telling me now is that the 36 month thing is actually nothing. Microsoft can get out of it with almost anything. As I said, trust is broken. Not the law.
    03-22-2016 03:53 PM
  18. Paul1266's Avatar
    Sure, you're right. I won't be able to take them to court. So this "promise" means if I buy the device on day 1, and on day 2 they declare my hardware obsolete, the 36 months of updates is good for nothing. This solves the court issue, but not the trust issue.
    There is no reasoning with you. You've just ignored the bit of "the promise" (your quote marks, why dunno?) that doesn't fit in with your story. You won't even reference it. It clearly says dependent on hardware capabilities. Why doesn't that sink in with you?
    03-22-2016 03:53 PM
  19. Norman Marshall's Avatar
    3 years from when the phone is released. Not 3 years since you bought the phone.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-22-2016 03:58 PM
  20. hedrek's Avatar
    "Overall, very happy with my purchase. I love Windows Mobile versions over the years, but Microsoft has a lot of work to do. The 950s issues were too much for such an expensive flagship. If they do release another flagship or Surface phone, all 950 users should get a hefty discount as an apology."

    MS is way past the point that their semi promises will get a pass. My Trophy ans Surface RT attest to that. They are basically spitting in the face of the people who support them and want them to succeed. NOT leaving is actually a sad commentary on those who stay. Starting to look like the victims of domestic violence who never leave.
    Pablo O likes this.
    03-22-2016 03:59 PM
  21. OmniusOne's Avatar
    Seems like about a third of WP users are screaming "We were promised W10 and aren't getting it, rawr!"
    About another third is screaming "We have W10 and it's slow/ buggy, rawr!"

    Just think about that for a bit...
    Ha ha ha. Geesh; in a nutshell, eh. I was a bit miffed, but over it now myself. I'll just run the preview (TH 10586 build) until I get a newer phone. Fierce XL, I think. Went from surprise, shock, horror, anger, denial, to peaceful acceptance. Lol
    03-22-2016 04:00 PM
  22. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    "Overall, very happy with my purchase. I love Windows Mobile versions over the years, but Microsoft has a lot of work to do. The 950’s issues were too much for such an expensive flagship. If they do release another flagship or Surface phone, all 950 users should get a hefty discount as an apology."
    Ehm, we are talking about Microsoft, not VolksWagen....
    03-22-2016 04:02 PM
  23. Guytronic's Avatar
    And by the way maybe this answers your question:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?p1=17945


    From the source:
    "Microsoft will make updates available for the Operating System, including security updates, for a minimum of 36 months after the lifecycle start date."
    The end of lifecycle is even listed there as 7/11/2017.

    Explicit referral to "updates...including security updates" trumps "features, apps and services".
    I guess I'll get ready for court.
    Seen that link before.
    That's just as vague as what I referred to.
    The update policy never refers to specific devices.

    There's also this incase you missed it in FAQs:
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...dows-phone-faq
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-22-2016 04:03 PM
  24. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    There is no reasoning with you. You've just ignored the bit of "the promise" (your quote marks, why dunno?) that doesn't fit in with your story. You won't even reference it. It clearly says dependent on hardware capabilities. Why doesn't that sink in with you?
    Because the last sentence of a note of a webpage is not "the promise". The "you get updates for 36 months from now" part, and its implication, is the promise. No one said "the 36 months, dependent on hardware, on the type of security or functional update, the region, etc." when people believed them to be saying "if we make another Windows within 36 months, the devices you buy today will get it."

    That's the promise part. If this promise can be technically broken by almost anything...still doesn't exonerate the party that implied that was not the case. And they did, purposely, imply it.
    03-22-2016 04:21 PM
  25. Paul1266's Avatar
    Because the last sentence of a note of a webpage is not "the promise". The "you get updates for 36 months from now" part, and its implication, is the promise. No one said "the 36 months, dependent on hardware, on the type of security or functional update, the region, etc." when people believed them to be saying "if we make another Windows within 36 months, the devices you buy today will get it."

    That's the promise part. If this promise can be technically broken by almost anything...still doesn't exonerate the party that implied that was not the case. And they did, purposely, imply it.
    Oh sorry, "the promise" is part you've decided. That makes sense. You ignore stuff you don't like the sound of and focus on the bits you do. I must try that. What could possibly go wrong...
    03-22-2016 04:28 PM
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