1. lg102's Avatar
    I like new software, I really do. But: Windows Mobile 10 is so incredibly unpolished. I wonder if there is anyone at Microsoft actually using the builds they ship out on a day to day basis. I've been on the fast ring since it became available. I was eager to upgrade, mainly because of Edge. I don't really care about apps, I just want the web to work right. Performance and battery life weren't great after the migration, so based on the Windows Central recommendation I'm doing a hard reset. The experience is horrible.

    This is about build 14322 on a Lumia 930.

    Just some of my issues:
    - The setup makes you accept the EULA for Windows Phone 8.1. Did nobody notice this?
    - There is no way to know whether data is actually included in the backup. Pictures are, but saved files are not. Whatsapp data is not (?), and the Whatsapp backup is *not* restored when the app is reinstalled. Thanks, guys. The registration for my banking app is lost. Texts *seem* gone.
    - All apps that shipped with the phone are reinstalled. All apps. This includes Lumia Camera, which they don't want us to use, the Here apps, which aren't supported anymore and which I had uninstalled. MixRadio, Line, Lumia creative Studio, App Social, News. I had all this cruft uninstalled and it is just reinstalling. It also installs Facebook, which I'm not using.
    - It does these re-installs even when restoring a backup. I ran hard reset twice, once restoring the backup, then again without. If I barely get any data back I might as well start entirely with a clean slate.

    Now, I know the recommendation is not to use the insider builds on daily use phones, and losing this data doesn't hurt me. But when this ships out to the general public, they'll face these issues too. Such a bad (first) impression.

    /rant
    Last edited by lg102; 04-17-2016 at 05:49 AM. Reason: typo
    Joe920 likes this.
    04-17-2016 05:44 AM
  2. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    OMG
    Whatsapp is a 3rd app. And as all 3rd apps, they got an indipendent backup system user must use before resetting / upgrading phone.
    That's not o.s. responsability if user forget to backup everything EVEN if WARNED to do before.
    Backups oncludes ONLY Windows o.s., apps list, config data, settings, messages (last week messages doesn't works well)
    If you don't like apps, that's clear you must uninstall them before updating, elsewhere backup system assumes you WANT all these apps again.
    Logic,isn't it?
    Evidently, you never got a smartphone, and you havent any idea of the meaning of bulk apps included when you open the box. Exactly as a new laptop / desktop.

    You are complain like you are buyin a new car, and then you notice later there's not enough space for your legs. IMHO.

    Buy an Android. Syncerely. Not an offence, I'm sorry ;)
    Last edited by Maurizio Troso; 04-17-2016 at 12:06 PM. Reason: mispelling
    Nicholas Ek likes this.
    04-17-2016 11:00 AM
  3. ScorpioJonesy's Avatar
    OMG
    Whatsapp is a 3rd app. And as all 3rd apps, they got an indipendent backup system user must use before resetting / upgrading phone.
    That's not o.s. responsability if user forget to backup everything EVEN if WARNED to do before.
    Backups oncludes ONLY Windows o.s., apps list, config data, settings, messages (last week messages doesn't works well)
    If you don't like apps, that's clear you must uninstall them before updating, elsewhere backup system assumes you WANT all these apps again.
    Logic,isn't it?
    Evidently, you never got a smartphone, and you havent any idea of the meaning of bulk apps included when you open the box. Exactly as a new laptop / desktop.

    You are complain like you are buyin a new car, and then you notice later there's not enough space for your legs. IMHO.

    Buy an Android. Syncerely. Not an offence, I'm sorry ;)
    He does raise a lot of valid points though.
    Joe920, Peeteris and Corwin_Amber1 like this.
    04-17-2016 12:17 PM
  4. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    He does raise a lot of valid points though.
    These are the same points on every out-of-the-box device.
    We assume if you can't use something, first you read user guide (or surf web for info). I'm a windows pc technician, and everyday I see that. And we work for making people smarter with their pc's. First question: antivirus? what is it? A device used by companies to telemetry us?
    But enough is enough.
    If someone does an hard reset without even understanding what to do before and after, well, that reminds me the old sad story of the lady she took his cat in a microwave for dryin him. And later she said "No one told me don't put animals in a microwave! I'll charge maufacturer!!"
    The Extreme G and Nicholas Ek like this.
    04-17-2016 12:40 PM
  5. lg102's Avatar
    I "evidently" never got a smartphone? Hehe :)

    If you don't like apps, that's clear you must uninstall them before updating
    What I'm saying is, default system apps are reinstalled, even though I did uninstall them.

    And as all 3rd apps, they got an indipendent backup
    Apps can hook into the system backup. Whatsapp isn't offering to restore the backup it made.Their support article says to uninstall + reinstall the app to prompt this, but that doesn't work.

    without even understanding
    I'm perfectly capable of understanding what I'm doing. I've got my data backed up manually. I'm just testing the process, which is what these insider builds are for.

    I'm merely pointing out that non-technical users aren't going to understand this process.
    techiez likes this.
    04-17-2016 02:39 PM
  6. Joe920's Avatar
    Agree that backup restore and build install could use a lot of improvements. I made a list of the apps that don't restore just to remind myself which ones to back up individually when possible.

    But apart from the occasional app that hasn't been updated to enable restore, a whole bunch of system settings get lost. That's just annoying. Some examples:

    Haptic feedback - turned back on
    Outlook - email passwords gone, swipe actions reset, theme color reset back to dark, conversation grouping reenabled
    Notification choices - all apps show in action center again
    Kids corner - back to completely empty. It did restore the lock screen photo (hadn't tried recently)
    Maps app - speed alert preferences reset, saved maps that were on SD card are not auto detected
    Keyboard settings - preferences on emoticon suggestions, and probably other settings
    Camera app - preferences lost
    Edge - all settings reset (search provider, smart screen filter)

    A completely minor point, but I found myself installing an update out at Starbucks, and it was just embarrassing to have those giant non-interlocking blocky animated cogs 'spinning'. C'mon guys, that's not how gears work.

    Another thing I find unacceptable is that backups get overwritten with no way to get back an older backup. Example: I had my 950XL on the Fast Build for one terrible day, and it overwrote my backup from before the update. There's no way that I see to keep a backup for longer if you know that's one you might need to get back to.

    Lots of room for improvement as far as I'm concerned.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    04-17-2016 05:54 PM
  7. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    Just one simple thing - tiles layout they can failed to deliver from restore.....

    I have my previous working backup setting 150% font size, enable 4-columns tile layout and all my tiles and arranged all my tiles around this set-up. When I restored from my backup the system still stay in 200% font size and 3 columns layout which chopped the right 1/4 of my tiles and throw them to the bottom of my main screen. I have to manually rearrange them everytime I restore my phone from backup which is just annoying.
    04-17-2016 07:21 PM
  8. T Moore's Avatar
    Just one simple thing - tiles layout they can failed to deliver from restore.....

    I have my previous working backup setting 150% font size, enable 4-columns tile layout and all my tiles and arranged all my tiles around this set-up. When I restored from my backup the system still stay in 200% font size and 3 columns layout which chopped the right 1/4 of my tiles and throw them to the bottom of my main screen. I have to manually rearrange them everytime I restore my phone from backup which is just annoying.
    Why continue with a backup you know is incorrect?
    You can have more than one backup for a device, it is all based on the device name. Change the name of your phone and let it backup.
    04-17-2016 10:12 PM
  9. realwarder's Avatar
    I hope you are using the Feedback feature to report these issues. The OOBE group should be told. I too wish deleted apps are not reinstalled. I delete the AT&T apps every reinstall! Some things like app data is up to the app developer to store data in the right storage folders so Backup saves the data. So for those, talk to the app developers.
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    04-17-2016 10:16 PM
  10. T Moore's Avatar
    Just some of my issues:
    - The setup makes you accept the EULA for Windows Phone 8.1. Did nobody notice this?
    - There is no way to know whether data is actually included in the backup. Pictures are, but saved files are not. Whatsapp data is not (?), and the Whatsapp backup is *not* restored when the app is reinstalled. Thanks, guys. The registration for my banking app is lost. Texts *seem* gone.
    - All apps that shipped with the phone are reinstalled. All apps. This includes Lumia Camera, which they don't want us to use, the Here apps, which aren't supported anymore and which I had uninstalled. MixRadio, Line, Lumia creative Studio, App Social, News. I had all this cruft uninstalled and it is just reinstalling. It also installs Facebook, which I'm not using.
    - It does these re-installs even when restoring a backup. I ran hard reset twice, once restoring the backup, then again without. If I barely get any data back I might as well start entirely with a clean slate.

    Now, I know the recommendation is not to use the insider builds on daily use phones, and losing this data doesn't hurt me. But when this ships out to the general public, they'll face these issues too. Such a bad (first) impression./rant
    Read up about what is included in backup.
    Never a doubt in my mind on what is backed up.
    Included in backup, phone settings, start screen layout, installed app list, app data if the developer of the app included this in the app. That's it. SMS is not part of backup. You get your SMS if you have been backing it up, it is not retroactive, it is constantly updating.
    Your documents, music, videos and pictures are not part of backup, never has been.
    A reset returns the phone to an out of the box condition with any updates. It is universal, same for all and it has been this way since WP8.
    Your WhatsApp backup problem is with them, not the backup process.
    Nicholas Maguire likes this.
    04-17-2016 10:32 PM
  11. Tien-Lin Chang's Avatar
    Why continue with a backup you know is incorrect?
    You can have more than one backup for a device, it is all based on the device name. Change the name of your phone and let it backup.
    Because every 4-column layout backup can't be restored correctly in my experience and I just can't stand the ugly, chunky default 2/3-column layout, I think this might due to insufficient backup details (mainscreen layout not included?) or the way w10m taking backup couldn't set correct column layout.

    Anyway beside the messed up mainscreen, the apps are downloaded correctly from my library so I don't have to start over and picking up from them.
    04-18-2016 01:34 AM
  12. Chintan Gohel's Avatar

    Now, I know the recommendation is not to use the insider builds on daily use phones, and losing this data doesn't hurt me. But when this ships out to the general public, they'll face these issues too. Such a bad (first) impression.

    /rant
    when this ships out to the general public as a redstone build, these issues should be ironed out and 99% of the public will not have to do a hard reset like the way you had to do. So the experience you had with hard reset is something that most people will not experience.

    As for apps that you deleted coming back, it's an issue that has been there since 8.1. It's not something new. I have restored my phone a couple of times to 8.1 and I still get news app or sports app which I have to uninstall again. It's the same thing on pc as well

    The backup from my experience restores your texts, contacts, apps that you had installed (or shows you the list of apps you were using), start layout (sometimes) and settings. third party apps have their backup systems which may or may not work. Whatsapp chats should be backed up by you and can only work if the data was backed up to sd card. Internal storage backups can't work as the storage is wiped
    TechFreak1 likes this.
    04-18-2016 01:51 AM
  13. Jaganath Maharajan's Avatar
    hello, could any one help me please! my cellular data is not working ... im using Nokia Lumia 830 updated 14322
    04-18-2016 02:29 AM
  14. Maurizio Troso's Avatar
    hello, could any one help me please! my cellular data is not working ... im using Nokia Lumia 830 updated 14322
    You lost APN settings in SIM. Check and write them back, if you don't know them ask your carrier
    04-18-2016 06:04 AM
  15. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The backup system does allow apps to use it but the app requires to be built for windows 10 and use the proper apis. So if you go to the advanced backup stuff you can turn on which app data you backup. Again only ones that implement the actual functions will actually work. And whatsapp is an old 8.0 version app. Furthermore these are pre-release builds and they don't necessarily function like the production version. This includes the EULA not being updated because that's just a refinement that can be done before RTM. At the same time if your unit originally came with windows 8.1 the factory reset will use the 8.1 EULA since you're not an officially launched windows 10 device.

    It will download everything that your unit had at factory purchase. Hence why it's called factory reset.

    And it's cool to give feedback on your issues but these issues are not a problem on windows 10 purchased devices. Yes, you will get all the apps the device came with when purchased, but that's expected from users who do a factory reset. Updating from 8.1 to 10 is a different experience however. It's just the experience varies between devices based on what the device initially shipped with. They are actually required to do that since a person may want to go back to that initial experience.

    Now if you got windows 10 from your carrier as an update to 8.1, not sure how the experience would vary. But i'm talking about a factory reset of windows 10 production carrier release not insider. Insider is a great way to bypass carriers for 8.1 devices. But as we saw with .218 once your device is on windows 10, MS controls the updates. Which is super cool. :D

    I have reset my device before and got the expected results. But again mine is the 950xl that shipped with windows 10.

    I do find a lot of the quirks in insider builds to be bothersome at times but I do weigh the good with the bad. So far I'm enjoying the new features, but my battery drain and heating of unit is sort of making me want to go back to production. But new builds will be coming much quicker now that MS is done with their build conference. And since the anniversary update is due for summer they will be working on getting it more optimized for the release date. Just like originally windows 10 was full of bugs but once it got closer to RTM it became very stable and usable. And the latest .218 is amazing but of course we all love new features so we take the plunge. :)
    04-18-2016 08:05 AM
  16. Krystianpants's Avatar
    hello, could any one help me please! my cellular data is not working ... im using Nokia Lumia 830 updated 14322
    Try removing the sim while the phone is off. Once it boots up it will complain about sim missing. Power it down. Pop the sim in and boot back up. There's also an "update" button in the sim settings to get the proper apn settings from your carrier. You could try that first before doing all that.
    aximtreo and Chintan Gohel like this.
    04-18-2016 08:07 AM
  17. Ed Boland's Avatar
    Texts *seem* gone.
    I didn't read any of the other posts in this thread other than your OP, but if it helps, the text messages are backed up completely separate from all the other backup options. Under Settings/System/Messaging/History & Sync - make sure "sync messages between devices" is turned ON. Then you can choose to download text messages from "last month, last year", etc.

    Hope this helps!

    edit: of course this option must have been enabled before, on your prior OS ("text message backup" on WP8.1 IIRC)
    04-18-2016 03:56 PM
  18. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I think what this stems down is really this - you signed up to the fast ring builds - this flighting path WILL have tonnes of bugs. When features get added they are going to affect other parts of the O/S. Yes, of course it depends how the code is siloed but invariably all the cogs are interconnected.

    So right now all you can do is embrace yourself for more bugs, if that is too much then you may find the slow ring more comfortable. As if the past anything to go by -> Early TH1 builds buggy -> later stabilised -> Early TH2 builds buggy -> later stabilised. I'm sure you can see the pattern (you also need to consider that the stabilisation for older phones will have to come later as they have finite resources - like any other OEM). However with Android for example how many phones do you know got frequent updates over a 2-3 year cycle?
    04-18-2016 05:00 PM
  19. peter leung 10586's Avatar
    I like new software, I really do. But: Windows Mobile 10 is so incredibly unpolished. I wonder if there is anyone at Microsoft actually using the builds they ship out on a day to day basis. I've been on the fast ring since it became available. I was eager to upgrade, mainly because of Edge. I don't really care about apps, I just want the web to work right. Performance and battery life weren't great after the migration, so based on the Windows Central recommendation I'm doing a hard reset. The experience is horrible.

    This is about build 14322 on a Lumia 930.

    Just some of my issues:
    - The setup makes you accept the EULA for Windows Phone 8.1. Did nobody notice this?
    - There is no way to know whether data is actually included in the backup. Pictures are, but saved files are not. Whatsapp data is not (?), and the Whatsapp backup is *not* restored when the app is reinstalled. Thanks, guys. The registration for my banking app is lost. Texts *seem* gone.
    - All apps that shipped with the phone are reinstalled. All apps. This includes Lumia Camera, which they don't want us to use, the Here apps, which aren't supported anymore and which I had uninstalled. MixRadio, Line, Lumia creative Studio, App Social, News. I had all this cruft uninstalled and it is just reinstalling. It also installs Facebook, which I'm not using.
    - It does these re-installs even when restoring a backup. I ran hard reset twice, once restoring the backup, then again without. If I barely get any data back I might as well start entirely with a clean slate.

    Now, I know the recommendation is not to use the insider builds on daily use phones, and losing this data doesn't hurt me. But when this ships out to the general public, they'll face these issues too. Such a bad (first) impression.

    /rant
    reset and never restore from backup.
    Ed Boland likes this.
    04-18-2016 10:16 PM
  20. Ed Boland's Avatar
    reset and never restore from backup.
    I agree! Especially since everything is so easily re-obtainable once you sign into your Microsoft account. I mean, all your apps that you've purchased are right there in your "my library" in the store, and text messages are easily restored via the "sync messages between devices" option in settings. (Provided you had this ON previously (text message backup))
    04-20-2016 12:04 PM
  21. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    true. The thing about backup and restore is that it does this automatically for you. It downloads and updates your apps automatically without your input, it syncs back messages automatically, Choosing not to restore from backup means you have to install apps manually but this can be a good thing if you don't have time or internet to do a restore
    Ed Boland likes this.
    04-21-2016 04:22 AM

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