05-05-2016 05:10 PM
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  1. Lee B's Avatar
    "The raw numbers are shocking: Microsoft sold a minuscule 2.3 million Lumia phones last quarter, down from 8.6 million a year ago. Phone revenue declines will only steepen during the current quarter, chief financial officer Amy Hood warned during a conference call. Thats dragged down Microsofts results as a company, too." http://www.pcworld.com/article/3060194/windows/windows-phones-free-fall-may-force-microsoft-to-push-harder-on-windows-10-adoption.html
    04-22-2016 09:26 AM
  2. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    And yet their revenues for most other departments have increased by small to significant margins.
    Azure is up, office is up, search is up, surface is up, xbox is up.
    04-22-2016 12:13 PM
  3. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I don't know what else they can do to improve the low adoption rate in PCs. Microsoft already tried everything, but people aren't interested in the free upgrade or in buying new hardware.

    I think It's a major trend. Windows is declining in PCs, phones, servers, the cloud and even consoles. It seems there is nothing special about Windows anymore to justify its high development cost and license fee. Maybe *nix finally won and made Windows irrelevant.
    nspg likes this.
    04-22-2016 01:06 PM
  4. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Maybe *nix finally won and made Windows irrelevant.
    As evidenced by all the non-Windows computers I continue to not see on anyone's desk.
    04-22-2016 02:20 PM
  5. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    I don't know what else they can do to improve the low adoption rate in PCs. Microsoft already tried everything, but people aren't interested in the free upgrade or in buying new hardware.

    I think It's a major trend. Windows is declining in PCs, phones, servers, the cloud and even consoles. It seems there is nothing special about Windows anymore to justify its high development cost and license fee. Maybe *nix finally won and made Windows irrelevant.
    low adoption rate: people buy computers once and use them as long as they last or until the pc cannot meet their needs any more. I would say a small percentage of pc users would regularly upgrade their machine every year or two. Emerging markets are still emerging and that is where the sales are but purchasing power is not that high. A lot of places do recycling or refurbishing so maybe these pcs are not detected as sales.

    Free upgrade: last figures gave it as 250 million windows 10 devices and rising. Those that haven't upgrade are waiting either for the end of the one year offer so that they can do it then or don't know about windows 10 or don't have the internet to do it. A good percentage of pcs are used in industry for specific purposes and upgrading would mean some processes or programs will not run any more. Additionally, various institutions have dozens to hundreds of pcs under their control and management may not have decided to upgrade. Finally, a good percentage of people are still on systems earlier than 7 and don't want to upgrade fro various reasons
    04-23-2016 12:57 AM
  6. mikepalma's Avatar
    Can't sell stuff if you don't advertise. Seen no commercials for the"flagship" 950XL or 950.
    04-23-2016 01:02 AM
  7. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    low adoption rate: people buy computers once and use them as long as they last or until the pc cannot meet their needs any more. I would say a small percentage of pc users would regularly upgrade their machine every year or two. Emerging markets are still emerging and that is where the sales are but purchasing power is not that high.
    That applies to all countries, not just emerging markets. Unless someone is a hardcore gamer, there isn't a real need to buy/build a new PC or upgrade the one they already have.
    04-23-2016 01:20 AM
  8. robsbrutal's Avatar
    Can't sell stuff if you don't advertise. Seen no commercials for the"flagship" 950XL or 950.

    They won't be advertising phones until/if they release their surface phone this time next year

    Sent from mTalk
    BenGutt likes this.
    04-23-2016 03:54 AM
  9. mikepalma's Avatar
    They won't be advertising phones until/if they release their surface phone this time next year

    Sent from mTalk
    Why?
    04-23-2016 05:06 AM
  10. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    Why?
    Some people believe the 950 was released for the fans and enthusiasts and not as a serious competitor to other company flagships. The 950 phone has been seen to have problems and possibly, MS might not want to advertise something that isn't perfect (or nearly perfect)

    By the way, I have seen several advertisements in the national newspapers in my country for the 950 and 950xl together with the dock. Full page adverts. Posters have also been seen around the city. So advertising is there, just not in all countries and not at all levels
    04-23-2016 07:04 AM
  11. anon(6078578)'s Avatar
    I wonder how much of that 2.3 million is made of of phones such as the Lumia 640 which are being bought, not necessarily because customers wanted a Windows Phone but, because they're a bargain Smartphone?
    04-23-2016 09:29 AM
  12. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I don't know what else they can do to improve the low adoption rate in PCs. Microsoft already tried everything, but people aren't interested in the free upgrade or in buying new hardware.

    I think It's a major trend. Windows is declining in PCs, phones, servers, the cloud and even consoles. It seems there is nothing special about Windows anymore to justify its high development cost and license fee. Maybe *nix finally won and made Windows irrelevant.
    Oh that's why 2-in-1 sales are skyrocketing. That's just their surface line, OEMs are selling even more. And MS is apparently providing free home edition of windows 10 only pro costs. I read that somewhere.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    04-23-2016 10:56 AM
  13. aximtreo's Avatar
    They won't be advertising phones until/if they release their surface phone this time next year

    Sent from mTalk

    My feeling is that next year will too late. My suggestion is to advertise what they have. Biggest thing is to turn on the CDMA bands so it can be used on the largest US Carrier. If the bands don't exist; the death nell can be heard.

    I am using a M8 on Verizon using WP 10. My updates have stopped since my phone did not make the official release list. Even with that, I love it better than my Nexus 6 which I am selling.

    Getting the big MS tattoo off my butt is going to be painful.

    By the way, I've owned two 950 xl's and switched to AT&T. Didn't like leaving my family plan on Verizon, hence the M8.
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-23-2016 11:35 AM
  14. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    My feeling is that next year will too late. My suggestion is to advertise what they have. Biggest thing is to turn on the CDMA bands so it can be used on the largest US Carrier. If the bands don't exist; the death nell can be heard.
    There are other countries in the world and other telcoms besides one or two carriers in one country only.
    04-23-2016 11:50 AM
  15. Krystianpants's Avatar
    My feeling is that next year will too late. My suggestion is to advertise what they have. Biggest thing is to turn on the CDMA bands so it can be used on the largest US Carrier. If the bands don't exist; the death nell can be heard.

    I am using a M8 on Verizon using WP 10. My updates have stopped since my phone did not make the official release list. Even with that, I love it better than my Nexus 6 which I am selling.

    Getting the big MS tattoo off my butt is going to be painful.

    By the way, I've owned two 950 xl's and switched to AT&T. Didn't like leaving my family plan on Verizon, hence the M8.
    Verizon is phasing out CMDA. I think it's more about Verizon's partnerships with MS. And I'm not sure they are happy that MS will be controlling the updates and there's nothing they can do. Verizon also loves branding things. Iphone is the only one in a unique position where they don't have pre-installed software as Apple won't allow it, but only allows the apps to be installed from itunes. They are in a unique position with a phone in big demand.

    AT&T seems to have a good partnership with MS and I hope they are working together to expand AT&T's reach to areas where only Verizon is available. That company needs to be taught a big lesson.
    pdch likes this.
    04-23-2016 12:05 PM
  16. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Verizon is phasing out CMDA. I think it's more about Verizon's partnerships with MS. And I'm not sure they are happy that MS will be controlling the updates and there's nothing they can do. Verizon also loves branding things. Iphone is the only one in a unique position where they don't have pre-installed software as Apple won't allow it, but only allows the apps to be installed from itunes. They are in a unique position with a phone in big demand.

    AT&T seems to have a good partnership with MS and I hope they are working together to expand AT&T's reach to areas where only Verizon is available. That company needs to be taught a big lesson.
    My suspicion is that Verizon never got over the Kin debacle.
    04-23-2016 12:38 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    My suggestion is to advertise what they have. Biggest thing is to turn on the CDMA bands so it can be used on the largest US Carrier. If the bands don't exist; the death knell can be heard.
    No amount of advertising can save W10M in its current state. Advertising only makes sense if you have a unique and/or compelling sales pitch. Every iteration of WP up until W10M has sacrificed more of its uniqueness, and at no point in time did the things that were unique draw a stark enough contrast to the competition. At best, MS could claim that WP/WM is able to do X, Y, or Z better, but "better" never trumps familiarity (with iOS and/or Android). The only way to trump familiarity is by offering something that is unique, or that is clearly and obviously so much better that it is considered unique by most people (as opposed to something that is possibly just slightly better but not worth the hassle of changing ecosystems).

    During all these years, nothing about this dire situation has changed. Until it does, advertising is a complete waste of money. There's just nothing substantial MS could currently advertise. MS can always bring on the dancing and W10M wielding kids, but that won't convince anybody. The billions of dollars required to finance a useful advertising campaign are far better invested into making W10M better, which means:
    • specifying a target market
    • putting together a feature set that is well tailored to that target market, and making sure three to four of those features are unique to W10M, easy to demonstrate on TV, easily grasped, and highly desirable
    • polish those features to perfection (the features you want to build a brand and marketing campaign around must be perfect)

    Then advertise...

    They won't be advertising phones until/if they release their surface phone this time next year
    My feeling is that next year will be too late.
    MS won't be advertising phones again. Ever. That means next year won't be too late, because it's already too late. WP/WM as a phone OS is over. That ship has sunk. If you want an MS phone, then the iPhone or Android/Cyanogen (with MS' apps) are where it's at.

    You might have heard some people say something along the lines of "WP is dead, but WM is alive and well". I never know if that's just meaningless fanboy-bravado, or if there is more thought behind it. From my point of view, that really means MS' efforts to build a phone OS are over and done with. WM will admittedly retain the ability to make phone calls, but we should probably stop thinking of it as a smartphone OS. It's still a mobile OS however, or a more secure Windows Light if you will.

    Some future W10M devices will still look like phones (although some will be tablets), but their primary usage model won't be that of phones as we know them today.

    This is a really old concept. I don't think any of the details accurately represent where W10M is going, but it does demonstrate a device that can be used to get real work done with software that is a lot more complex than your average app. That is where W10M is headed, and if MS is smart, they won't be marketing it as a phone, but as something entirely different (similar to the way MS calls their 2-in-1 devices "convertibles" rather than "laptops").

    mark233, Guytronic, tgp and 7 others like this.
    04-23-2016 07:14 PM
  18. cracgor's Avatar
    My feeling is that next year will too late. My suggestion is to advertise what they have. Biggest thing is to turn on the CDMA bands so it can be used on the largest US Carrier. If the bands don't exist; the death nell can be heard.

    I am using a M8 on Verizon using WP 10. My updates have stopped since my phone did not make the official release list. Even with that, I love it better than my Nexus 6 which I am selling.

    Getting the big MS tattoo off my butt is going to be painful.

    By the way, I've owned two 950 xl's and switched to AT&T. Didn't like leaving my family plan on Verizon, hence the M8.
    Even if the 950 had CDMA, Verizon said they would prevent the phone from working on their network. So it would have just been an extra unnecessary cost in production.
    04-23-2016 08:34 PM
  19. ttsoldier's Avatar
    People need to realise that windows phone hard ware is not a priority to Microsoft.

    Windows 10 however, is. It will all piece together.
    04-24-2016 01:15 AM
  20. ZuLuuuuuu's Avatar
    I can kinda understand why they didn't advertise latest phones. Windows 10 Mobile was a mess when new phones came out and it showed in reviews. It will be in a much better (stable, fast and fully featured) position in 2017. So maybe they wanted to wait 1 year before doing any aggressive advertisements. And Lumia 950/XL users are kinda insiders for next years real launch :)
    04-24-2016 02:35 AM
  21. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    The raw numbers are not shocking if you actually paid attention to what MS is doing regarding phones.



    MS told everyone they were sailing back there phone production hence the units sold. They are keeping the development of Windows 10 Mobile going.



    Other OEM's will come in and sell phones. MS will continue to sell a small number of phones to the enthusiasts and people outside the USA who want to continue buying MS phones.
    v_emman and angusdegraosta like this.
    04-24-2016 04:52 AM
  22. aximtreo's Avatar
    Even if the 950 had CDMA, Verizon said they would prevent the phone from working on their network. So it would have just been an extra unnecessary cost in production.

    If memory serves me correctly, Verizon cannot refuse to activate a phone with CDMA bands. They can refuse to sell and support but not to activate. MS is already supporting WM phones on Verizon anyway.
    tgp, Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    04-24-2016 10:09 AM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    If memory serves me correctly, Verizon cannot refuse to activate a phone with CDMA bands. They can refuse to sell and support but not to activate.
    Yes. I think this is the first post in this thread that about Verizon that is accurate. Verizon most certainly allows unbranded factory unlocked phones which support their network. In fact, I'm using one to post this.
    Laura Knotek, aximtreo and libra89 like this.
    04-24-2016 02:31 PM
  24. cracgor's Avatar
    Yes. I think this is the first post in this thread that about Verizon that is accurate. Verizon most certainly allows unbranded factory unlocked phones which support their network. In fact, I'm using one to post this.
    I do not refute that you can use unbranded phones. But it was reported on WindowsCentral that they would not allow the 950 or 950xl to work on their networks. I can't find that article, but here is another one.

    Verizon Reportedly Blocking Microsoft?s Lumia 950 And 950 XL: Report : TECH : Tech Times
    tgp likes this.
    04-24-2016 04:31 PM
  25. RumoredNow's Avatar
    The "open devices" rule set by the FCC applies to Block C of the 700 MHz spectrum.

    Verizon operates LTE on Band 13 in the C Block of 700 MHz and cannot, by FCC rules, deny a device access if it is Band 13 capable. Initially, after winning many licences for C Block at auction, Verizon sued the FCC to remove the "open devices" and "open applications" rules. Later Verizon dropped the suit and agreed to the conditions. This was famously played out later very publicly when the FCC ruled that Verizon could not legally request Google to block Apps in Google Play (like tethering Apps being marked "incompatible") for their branded devices.

    What Verizon's FCC tethering settlement means to you (FAQ) - CNET


    Band 12 (700 MHz Blocks A-C) and Band 17 (700 MHz Blocks B-C) have interoperability now or phasing in soon (market/carrier depending). There is no interoperability with Band 13. It is 13 or nothing. Neither the 950 nor the 950 XL has Band 13 LTE.

    CDMA has nothing to do with it. You can enable CDMA on any/every phone. There is no legal precedent to force Verizon to activate that phone onto their network.

    "Open devices" is a new rule and Google forced it to be applied to the C Block of 700 MHz. That is the only place, so far as I can find, in which the condition exists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ectrum_auction

    My feeling is that the end negotiation between Microsoft and Verizon left the best course for Microsoft to not even activate Band 13 LTE or enable CDMA so that users would not be able to force the phone onto a network that not only did not want the devices, but stated clearly they would do everything in their power to disrupt the devices.
    cracgor, Laura Knotek, tgp and 5 others like this.
    04-24-2016 05:57 PM
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