W10M and the anti OS brigade

[Pete]

My view is that blogging/news sites rely on advertising to generate revenue.

With this in mind, it makes sense for them to write articles that people will want to read and share. It's natural that this should follow the general preconceptions of the target audience in hyping what's popular and trashing what's not popular.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I'll give my two cents here.

Ignoring the bloggers and other media sites lets look at those who are a bit frustrated, those who have been with WP for some time and have done the 'waiting'.

If you look back to October 2012, the introduction of WP8, yeah a little less than four years ago, a lot has changed in MS but little has changed for WP other than the loss of market share and the continual lack of confidence from the consumers or users if you prefer.

There is nothing wrong with W10M on the whole and nothing wrong with the ideas that MS is trying to achieve. There's nothing wrong with them dropping consumer hardware and leaving OEMs to pick up the slack. All good business decision. However, business decisions don't get you users.

I will put it this way, W10M currently does not perform well in what people want in the current market of smartphones, which is in the apps arena. I'm not saying this won't change but that is where we are now. That's why W10M suffers and will continue to suffer while this remains the status quo.

It hasn't helped that it's been continuously shunned by developers. People are going to take a dig at it. Users will get fed up. People won't bother. Regardless how good that OS may be.

It doesn't help that MS has made so many shifts and changes in the last four years either. If you look back over everything it feels and looks like a giant mess of ideas and dead ends. It's not a pretty sight.

I know there is no such thing as the perfect OS. There's no such thing as perfect hardware either. No provider is without it's issues. However seeing the slow implementation of W10M is rather painful. A lot of people wonder if it's worth the pain of the constant updates to stick around. I'm not personally into Stockholm Syndrome myself...

I think MS has a good idea and is doing their best to implement it. They have a very long way to go, which for those who want to do things now are tired of waiting for. I think regular consumers are just getting tired being told to wait more.

The frustrations you see on here is based on those who feel MS has failed them. By not providing official updates for their devices or having updates make a mess of their devices. It's only natural to get upset by these two things. Add in the lack of apps and a feeling that no one really cares about W10M, whether perceived or real, and you can understand why you see the comments you get. Especially if you're a long time user.

As for the bloogers, I'll agree with the others and say it's purely based on money. Then again, what does W10M offer those who believe apps are it?

 

[Ray Robertson]

I think is a ridiculous argument and believe that some folks are brainwashed. Yeah we all know nothing is perfect, but one of the BIG selling points of Windows Phone in the first place was it's stability and the fact that it was able to run smoothly on even a low end device. With WM10 that's gone out of the window. People like myself (Lumia 925\HTC M8 user) are unable to even upgrade to the latest stable version of the OS. Also from a hardware perspective what phone is appealing on the platform currently? I'm not calling the 950 series trash by any means, but I'm not paying all that money for uncertainty. Also I CHALLENGE anyone to tell us any POSITIVE messages that have been coming out of MS in regards to Windows Phone\Mobile. Name one in the last 6 months and I think we can add even more than that. I REALLY want to see MS win in the space. I REALLY want to stay on the platform as I am comfortable with it and not a BIG fan of the other options, but jeez laweez right now the OS is in a BAD STATE. New apps are coming, but mostly for WM10 which is cool, but there is no "real" UPGRADE path for many users and this causes some of us to BOLT. "WAIT WAIT WAIT soon things will be GREAT", is getting old and tired.

As a former Blackberry user I found this site via CrackBerry, so when I moved over to Windows Phone (Lumia 810 at the time) and moved here too. Most phone user don't visit sites like these. We are the minority not the majority. Average everyday users are what keeps things rolling and when their apps aren't there, no tech coverage, no advertising and then the little coverage equaling bad coverage, it equates to lackluster growth. As a former MS employee I waited for the kinks to get worked out before I jumped on board, so I started at Windows Phone 8. 4 years ago. 4 years in the TECH world is like 60 years! The market share keeps dipping and the OS seems to have lost it's way. None of my friends or family have a Windows Phone and in todays day and age smart phone are for doing things other than calling people. APPS MATTER in the space and as developer I know that most folks simply DON'T CARE about Windows Mobile and that sucks, but it's TRUE!!!!! I have yet to meet more than 5 people in 4 years that owns a Windows Phone\Mobile device. When you really want to stay put, but also don't want to be left out you have every right to COMPLAIN!!! BECAUSE IT SUCKS!!!! I think this is one of the BIGGEST GRIPES people have. We spread the word, we've supported the platform and it's in a rut. Simply put WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF WAITING. yes people have complained in the past, but let's be real. It's progressively gotten worse as the state of affairs has. Once again NOTHING is PERFECT. We ALL understand that, but at the end of the day MS was playing catch up out the gate and they keep trying to reinvent and in the process continue to lose market share. The less people use the platform, the less development their will be on all fronts. We need people to keep things moving, but we keep losing people and we didn't have much to begin with. Let's see how great things are when the only Windows Mobile users are the folks who visit this website and wmpoweruser. Let's see what happens then.

 

[Steve Thackery]

I think we should be careful about labelling those who dislike W10M as "resistant to change". It's a lazy way to dismiss their arguments.

I really dislike using W10M, but I'm not resistant to change. On the contrary, for much of my career in the telecommunications industry I drove change, and by nature I'm impatient for change.

However, like all reasonable people, I only like change if it is change for the better, or at least not a change for the worse. A change for the worse is making progress backwards, right?

My dislike of W10M is solely to do with the user interface. User interfaces are basically subjective experiences, so I do not insist that my opinion is correct. But I can say for sure that FOR ME using W10M is less pleasant than using WP8.1. Thus I mourn the passing of WP8.1's beautiful, elegant and innovative design language, and regret Microsoft's well-publicised decision to deliberately make W10M look and work more like Android and iOS.

I reserve the right to express those views, although I hope I've never thrust them down anyone's throat. And holding those views does NOT mean I am a Luddite and can thus be dismissed with a sneer.

After several months of using W10M on my Lumia 1520, I reverted it back to WP8.1. My big concern is that when my Lumia eventually dies, I won't be able to find a phone that I like using. FOR ME, Android and iOS feel clunky and old fashioned, like something from the last century. And now that W10M has got more like them (it feels like Android-with-live-tiles to me), I'll be stuck with buying a phone that I don't like.

I'm telling you this because I bet there are lots of people who feel exactly the same way.

 

[Cruachan 11]

I've been using Microsoft OSs on mobile devices for near enough 10 years now, firstly as work phones and then my own devices. I started off with an O2 XDA Atmos (HTC S730 rebadged), moved to an XDA Serra (HTC Touch Pro), then an HTC HD Mini. After a brief dalliance with an HTC Wildfire (which is one of the worst phones I've ever used) I returned to Microsoft with an HTC Mozart, then a Lumia 925.

When I left my job I got a Samsung Galaxy Ace as I needed a personal phone quickly and cheaply. Soon went back to my own 925, and now have a 950.

Now I recognise that list may put me into the category perjoratively referred to as ******, but the truth is (IMO!) I'm closer to what Microsoft are now calling a prosumer. In the Windows Mobile days apps weren't really a thing, smart phone meant you could get push email on your phone as well as web access and a few other bits and pieces. I've got used to that being the way I work on my phone - it's pretty much just a phone to me, so as I've stated in other threads there is no app gap for me. I have a Nexus 7 tablet for that.

For me, there has been a gentle but noticeable evolution in the OSs over the years. WinMo was slow to change, and TBH by the end was only really saved by the brilliant TouchFlo interfaces HTC provided on the devices I had. WP7 to me was a bit like Vista, looked nice and got a lot right but what it got wrong was awful. 8 and 8.1 were more steps in the right direction, but were still a bit chaotic in places. For example, the settings menu in 8 is terrible.

I do feel 10 is better than 8.1 in most ways, and I am probably lucky in that whilst there have been wild variations in user experiences on the same devices and builds, I haven't really seen those issues even on my 925 which has been on insider builds since 10149. I think Microsoft are doing the right thing by focusing more on the business market and also making "proof of concept" devices - it's worked well for them on the desktop side. W10M may yet survive in the consumer market as well - what will decide that is if (A) enough OEMs make devices, particularly filling the gaps in the emerging markets where Lumia was doing well and (B) how much traction UWP gets on the desktop, which should close the mobile app gap.

That was long-winded.

 

[Spectrum90]

I think Microsoft are doing the right thing by focusing more on the business market and also making "proof of concept" devices - it's worked well for them on the desktop side. W10M may yet survive in the consumer market as well - what will decide that is if (A) enough OEMs make devices, particularly filling the gaps in the emerging markets where Lumia was doing well and (B) how much traction UWP gets on the desktop, which should close the mobile app gap.

The only benefit of choosing a W10M over Android and iOS is Continuum. The biggest drawbacks are the lack of apps and the immaturity of the OS.

I expect Android and iOS will implement something like Continuum in the next few years. Of course Microsoft still has an advantage because UWP apps are designed to run in Windows 10 PCs. However, for the vast majority of consumers the most important part of the experience in a converged device is Mobile. Microsoft could improve W10M and make it the best mobile OS. However, the UWP strategy was a total failure in solving the app problem. People are not using apps on PCs and the number of W10M users is insignificant. There is no demand for Apps in the Windows platform.

The mobile side of W10M is so weak the I don't thing Continuum could save Windows, not even in the enterprise market. Enterprise users need consumers oriented apps and enterprise specific apps. Companies won't invest in W10M with this level of uncertainty.

As Google is bringing Android apps to its desktop OS, Microsoft really needs to innovate to survive in the client side. Within the current trajectory Windows dies. A converged Chrome-Android OS is free, simpler, faster and more secure.

 

[Pete]

I'm not sure that an Android OS would ever be as secure as a Microsoft OS any time soon unless Google make fundamental changes to the way it issues OS updates. How many times do ordinary Android users get OS updates for their devices (if at all)?

 

[Laura Knotek]

I'm not sure that an Android OS would ever be as secure as a Microsoft OS any time soon unless Google make fundamental changes to the way it issues OS updates. How many times do ordinary Android users get OS updates for their devices (if at all)?

That would be the Android OEMs, not Google. Nexus devices get monthly updates.

 

[Laura Knotek]

The only benefit of choosing a W10M over Android and iOS is Continuum. The biggest drawbacks are the lack of apps and the immaturity of the OS.

I expect Android and iOS will implement something like Continuum in the next few years. Of course Microsoft still has an advantage because UWP apps are designed to run in Windows 10 PCs. However, for the vast majority of consumers the most important part of the experience in a converged device is Mobile. Microsoft could improve W10M and make it the best mobile OS. However, the UWP strategy was a total failure in solving the app problem. People are not using apps on PCs and the number of W10M users is insignificant. There is no demand for Apps in the Windows platform.

The mobile side of W10M is so weak the I don't thing Continuum could save Windows, not even in the enterprise market. Enterprise users need consumers oriented apps and enterprise specific apps. Companies won't invest in W10M with this level of uncertainty.

As Google is bringing Android apps to its desktop OS, Microsoft really needs to innovate to survive in the client side. Within the current trajectory Windows dies. A converged Chrome-Android OS is free, simpler, faster and more secure.

I believe that it is too early to tell.

Many enterprises still have not upgraded to Windows 10 and won't for a while.

Who's to say that enterprises won't use UWP apps once they complete their upgrades to Windows 10?

 

[Pete]

That would be the Android OEMs, not Google. Nexus devices get monthly updates.

This is true. But anyone using an older device or anything that isn't a Nexus (or certain Samsung devices) is at risk.

 

[Laura Knotek]

This is true. But anyone using an older device or anything that isn't a Nexus (or certain Samsung devices) is at risk.

The BlackBerry Priv also gets monthly updates.

 

[N_LaRUE]

This is true. But anyone using an older device or anything that isn't a Nexus (or certain Samsung devices) is at risk.

Unfortunately in the world of mobile the OEMs don't like to spend money on 'old' products, this means anything older than 6 months from experience.

However, with Android N this will hopefully change where Google will be able to make security updates to the OS without the need for going through the OEM.

Of course this doesn't help the current batch and older phones out there and the issues OEMs have with product life vs ROI.

 

[Pete]

The BlackBerry Priv also gets monthly updates.

There's still at least 87% of active Android devices that don't have up to date software, or any hope of updates.

?Android security a 'market for lemons' that leaves 87 percent vulnerable | ZDNet

The graph at the top of this article is quite telling. New devices get updates for a period and then get overtaken when never devices come on to the market. There might be a point at which users of older devices upgrade, but for many consumers, that will only happen when their devices stop working (my mother has a phone running Android 2.2 and she's ok with that, but she's fairly oblivious of the security risks).

Basically speaking, to be secure in the Android ecosystem, you need a relatively new device from a major manufacturer.

With Windows, you just need to have moved past Windows XP and an internet connection.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I believe that it is too early to tell.

Many enterprises still have not upgraded to Windows 10 and won't for a while.

Who's to say that enterprises won't use UWP apps once they complete their upgrades to Windows 10?

The term enterprise is used very generally I find. What exactly entails an 'enterprise'? Small companies? Medium? Large corps?

Term is fairly confusing to me and I don't think it's my personal 'traditionalist' mindset but I've always seen enterprise as medium to large corps but it seems people use that term for anything 'connected'.

When it comes to upgrades, medium and large corps are the slowest but even some small companies hate change as well. So to suggest 'enterprise' will jump on the W10 bandwagon just because it's 'neat' and there's some 'possible' advantages is moot to most.

Cost is the biggest driving factor when it comes to upgrades followed by possible down time and ensuring that things still work.

Using my company as a small example, a large corporation, we just upgraded to Win 7, Office 2007 fairly recently. Yeah, Office 2007... it was Office 2003 and Xp when I started four years ago.

We just recently have been able to use other internet browsers, with strict access to certain things, for example social media is out. I can't access my Outlook email. Strangely I can access most Google services.

I don't see an upgrade to W10 any time soon here. Let alone using UWP apps. There would have to be a very very good reason presented by MS to provide a reason for the change and for out IT services to agree. Not seeing that happening.

I have little doubt this type of scenario is playing out in many companies world wide. Change in OS for PCs is a big thing for most corporations and one they won't do unless they have to. So it's likely that the company I work for will use Win 7 until they're forced to change and I think many others will do that same.

MS has a lot to prove to enterprise that change to W10 is worth it. I don't see that happening.

 

[Pete]

Unfortunately in the world of mobile the OEMs don't like to spend money on 'old' products, this means anything older than 6 months from experience.

However, with Android N this will hopefully change where Google will be able to make security updates to the OS without the need for going through the OEM.

Of course this doesn't help the current batch and older phones out there and the issues OEMs have with product life vs ROI.

This is true. Google in the past has only really rewarded affluent users with the tastiest candy. Hopefully N will change that, but many people will still have to buy new hardware to get it.

 

[N_LaRUE]

This is true. Google in the past has only really rewarded affluent users with the tastiest candy. Hopefully N will change that, but many people will still have to buy new hardware to get it.

Not much different than buying a new handset to get W10M? There are always people wanting the newest thing. The challenge for OEMs and Google is convincing people to upgrade

This goes for any product supplier.

 

[Pete]

MS has a lot to prove to enterprise that change to W10 is worth it. I don't see that happening.

This is the basics of it. I work for a pretty large billion dollar corporation, we're all running Windows 7 here. Corporations will only typically make large changes like this because there's a financial or compliance related reason to do so. Right now, there's no reason to move away from Windows 7.

It's a huge cost in terms of migration. A year ago, we had over 400 corporate applications in use by the business; this is being brought down to under 200, but still requires a huge amount of testing to ensure it all works with Windows 10 (whenever that happens).

Any thought of using apps (in the Windows 10 sense of the word) isn't even on the horizon and won't be until there's a point at which Microsoft kills the desktop/full fat version of MS Office.

 

[Pete]

Not much different than buying a new handset to get W10M? There are always people wanting the newest thing. The challenge for OEMs and Google is convincing people to upgrade

This goes for any product supplier.

The insider program gives customers with some older handsets access to Windows 10 Mobile, but I take your point there. Users of desktop/tablet version of Windows always have had regular security updates. As a side note, Windows Phone 7/8.x was pretty secure out of the box and I've never seen any articles relating to security exploits (at least for people who didn't spend a lot of time and effort in unlocking their devices to install interops or that awful Astoria thing).

 

[N_LaRUE]

The insider program gives customers with some older handsets access to Windows 10 Mobile, but I take your point there. Users of desktop/tablet version of Windows always have had regular security updates. As a side note, Windows Phone 7/8.x was pretty secure out of the box and I've never seen any articles relating to security exploits (at least for people who didn't spend a lot of time and effort in unlocking their devices to install interops or that awful Astoria thing).

The Insider Program is great but it has it's limitations I think.

Oh I don't disagree that Android didn't have issues and still does. I just believe that all hardware/software has a point of change. Windows had it's time and now Android will have it's major shift. I'm sure there will be more in the future.

Google has started to take security a lot more seriously lately and MS has as well. I think that's beneficial to everyone.

I could make a point that Windows on PC is still the most targeted OS in the world for hackers but that's a given considering the number of users.

 

[Cruachan 11]

The only benefit of choosing a W10M over Android and iOS is Continuum. The biggest drawbacks are the lack of apps and the immaturity of the OS.

I expect Android and iOS will implement something like Continuum in the next few years. Of course Microsoft still has an advantage because UWP apps are designed to run in Windows 10 PCs. However, for the vast majority of consumers the most important part of the experience in a converged device is Mobile. Microsoft could improve W10M and make it the best mobile OS. However, the UWP strategy was a total failure in solving the app problem. People are not using apps on PCs and the number of W10M users is insignificant. There is no demand for Apps in the Windows platform.

The mobile side of W10M is so weak the I don't thing Continuum could save Windows, not even in the enterprise market. Enterprise users need consumers oriented apps and enterprise specific apps. Companies won't invest in W10M with this level of uncertainty.

As Google is bringing Android apps to its desktop OS, Microsoft really needs to innovate to survive in the client side. Within the current trajectory Windows dies. A converged Chrome-Android OS is free, simpler, faster and more secure.

Continuum being the only benefit is entirely subjective. As others have pointed out, Android is not a very secure OS for the most part, and if you use iOS you are in Apple's walled garden which means it's much more difficult to put your own media on a device and you are forced to use Apple's proprietry standards for your accessories.

I also think it's far too early to say that UWP is a failure. W10M only launched officially 6 months ago. How much traction in the market did iOS or Android have and how many apps were in their stores after 6 months?