Windows 10 Mobile and the Year 2038 Problem

[Snowbooks1419]

As some of you may already know, the "Year 2038 Problem" refers to a predicted event in which many (if not all) 32-bit devices will stop working due to a bug with the UNIX timestamp. However, Windows 10 Mobile is currently 32-bit. If I got a Windows 10 Mobile phone (with a 64-bit processor like the 950 or 950 XL, so that a 32-bit processor wouldn't be an issue), would the fact that Windows 10 Mobile is 32-bit mean that it would stop working in 2038?

 

[PGrey]

Seriously?
I get the need, to move everything up to 64-bit eventually, in particular for memory and SD card issues, but I think I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that you won't have to worry about this for 2038. I worked on some of the first Windows 64-bit machines, the old MIPS and Alpha boxes, back in the day, which was nifty, and good stuff for business, but our biggest worry was again storage/memory architecture, not a date (okay maybe 2000, except that as a s/w and h/w engineer, I knew most of that was bogus anyway).
At the very least, think back 22 years, to 1994. How many electronic devices (other than MAYBE a radio or washing machine, debatable things anyway) are you using from then?
I have an old HP Jornada Windows CE device, if anyone's interested, in a nifty 32-bit device? ;-]

-pete

 

[xandros9]

I believe that the OS is still 32-bit so I'm willing to wager the issue persists.

That's 22-something years away though! The first issue would be making them last that long. I presume its possible and not too hard, but how useful will they be I wonder. Will we look at them the way we look at Treo's today? But yea considering I could probably break out my 2001 m500 and use it makes me wonder how it'll turn out in the future.

Who knows, maybe AT&T will be looking at a 4G network shutdown in favor of 5G or Email has evolved so much Exchange Activesync and IMAP are alien. But I think we'll still have that 2038 time issue if it affects Windows 10 Mobile.

 

[EspHack]

4gb ram wont be enough for anything in a few years, so I VERY HIGHLY EXTREMELY UBER ULTRA SUPER DUPER doubt that the problem will affect us in 22 years

 

[rhapdog]

As some of you may already know, the "Year 2038 Problem" refers to a predicted event in which many (if not all) 32-bit devices will stop working due to a bug with the UNIX timestamp. However, Windows 10 Mobile is currently 32-bit. If I got a Windows 10 Mobile phone (with a 64-bit processor like the 950 or 950 XL, so that a 32-bit processor wouldn't be an issue), would the fact that Windows 10 Mobile is 32-bit mean that it would stop working in 2038?

4gb ram wont be enough for anything in a few years, so I VERY HIGHLY EXTREMELY UBER ULTRA SUPER DUPER doubt that the problem will affect us in 22 years

Yeah, I remember back in the 60s and 70s, the people writing software new good and well that there would be an issue in the year 2000. However, it was so far away, they all had the attitude that "nobody will be using this in 30+ years." Amazing how so many never upgraded their mainframe computer from the 70s and never replaced their software in all that time. Then again, when you spend more than $10 million dollars on a computer and software, you expect it to last.

However, Microsoft is already working on 64-bit versions of Windows 10 Mobile. It won't be that difficult, since it shares the same core as Windows 10 which already has a 64-bit counterpart. It is already possible to compile it, but it just isn't seen as needed as yet.

Why is Microsoft still using 32-bit for Mobile? Because the 64-bit version has a higher RAM and storage requirement for the exact same apps, meaning you would be required to install more storage and RAM into each device, which will in turn drive up the price out of reach for the average consumer while making enthusiasts very happy. Well, the enthusiasts are too small a percentage of the already too small percentage of Windows 10 Mobile users.

It's coming within the next few years, don't worry. And if you're still using the same phone in 20 years, well, it won't function on the networks. Verizon has already stated intentions and begun work on migrating away from CDMA in favor of LTE and 5G. 5G, 6G, or something else will have replaced everything by then. There will no longer be access to 2G. GSM and CDMA will both go away within 20 years and everything will run off the higher speed standards. That means you'll need a new phone, and by the time that happens, it will be 64-bit long before and we won't have this issue.

Bigger issue than the date? The fact that GSM and CDMA will be obsolete in 20 years. While my phone from 20 years ago still functions fine, I can't use it because the radio is no longer supported for calls. The phone doesn't even do texts, so don't get me started on it.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

22 years from now, the famed Nokia 3310 will still be functioning and breaking things :winktongue:

 

[Bobvfr]

I will be in my eighties and probably wont care about it anyway...........................

 

[Zulfigar]

So, curiosity sake, but why the year 2038? I mean, I remember the year 2000 (older computers weren't programmed with the year 2000 in mind, so it got a little funky, but nothing too horrible), but why 2038?

 

[Ma Rio]

So, curiosity sake, but why the year 2038? I mean, I remember the year 2000 (older computers weren't programmed with the year 2000 in mind, so it got a little funky, but nothing too horrible), but why 2038?

Unix time. It's the number of seconds that have passed from 1-1-1970. It's stored as an integer value. Currently it's 1 469 895 807. The problem occours since 32-bit machines allow integers to have a max value of 2^32. Unix time is stored in signed binary (and for that reason you can store only 2^31 which is 2 147 483 648 which is 1-19-2038). Now.. if only they have used unsigned integers, we would have time until 2100 to figure it out.

Here's a GIF of that moment.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Year_2038_problem.gif#/media/File:Year_2038_problem.gif

 

[PGrey]

Yeah, I'll be pushing 80, Bobvfr has a great point there.

It's 2038, because of wrap-around (simple version), 32 bit won't be enough to go from 1901 beyond that date. You can look up the Wiki or similar if you're bored/interested ;-]
Edit Wiki pointer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

There are undoubtedly embedded things that will be an issue then, but not our phones.
And like EspHack mentions, 4GB is a much bigger concern than any other issue, really.

The seriously scary thing has probably more to do with things like medical devices and military stuff, that could still be in use then, but fails to function correctly at that date/time.

RS was rumored to be 64, on capable phones, but something happened. Maybe it's the RAM issues/pricing mentioned above, maybe it's the "thunk" that's in the ARM chips and processing/power problems, I'm not sure, I haven't read into it much...
This was a problem in x64/amd64 for awhile, until the processor manufacturers added calls for PhysToVirt and VirtToPhys, and made them part of the core, so that they were highly efficient, before that, there was was concern about thunks on desktop machines, and the big processing cost.

I do remember having this big debate, and being marveled by the couple of 4GB machines, the debate being if we would ever actually need 4GB, for "real world computing", not just some big server ;-]

 

[PGrey]

Here's another great article, I remember working with Dave, which was truly frightening. I was helping OEMs on HAL work, and despite being significantly younger (and in theory, quicker, but not even close) than him, I struggled to follow and have good discussion with him, about changes we needed to look at, as we traversed this in the desktop:
The engineer?s engineer: Computer industry luminaries salute Dave Cutler?s five-decade-long quest for quality | News Center

-pete

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Here's another great article, I remember working with Dave, which was truly frightening. I was helping OEMs on HAL work, and despite being significantly younger (and in theory, quicker, but not even close) than him, I struggled to follow and have good discussion with him, about changes we needed to look at, as we traversed this in the desktop:
The engineer?s engineer: Computer industry luminaries salute Dave Cutler?s five-decade-long quest for quality | News Center

-pete

inspiring story - there truly are geniuses in the world

 

[Snowbooks1419]

I found this interesting article (link here) which states that iOS and Android gray out any dates after January 19, 2038, "but that Windows Phone works correctly." (The article is from January 2013; since then, I believe that 64-bit versions of both iOS and Android have been released, and Windows Phone has been renamed.) Nevertheless, that reassuring article could be an indicator that Windows 10 Mobile hopefully won't have any problems with the Year 2038 bug!

 

[Shamshi-Adad]

Seriously?
I get the need, to move everything up to 64-bit eventually, in particular for memory and SD card issues, but I think I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that you won't have to worry about this for 2038. I worked on some of the first Windows 64-bit machines, the old MIPS and Alpha boxes, back in the day, which was nifty, and good stuff for business, but our biggest worry was again storage/memory architecture, not a date (okay maybe 2000, except that as a s/w and h/w engineer, I knew most of that was bogus anyway).
At the very least, think back 22 years, to 1994. How many electronic devices (other than MAYBE a radio or washing machine, debatable things anyway) are you using from then?
I have an old HP Jornada Windows CE device, if anyone's interested, in a nifty 32-bit device? ;-]

-pete

I've got my old Commodore 64 AND an AMIGA with the ram upgraded to 512K. Floppy drives, Monitors and even the mouse for the Amiga.
I keep waiting for a call from the Smithsonian.

Peace. Alan
MS Lumia ICON 929 [Win10 M, Insider Preview, Redstone 14393.5]

 

[Chintan Gohel]

My cellular data expires in 2036. That's really far away -would we even be settling on Mars then?

 

[Zulfigar]

Thanks for all of the great information!

 

[PGrey]

I've got my old Commodore 64 AND an AMIGA with the ram upgraded to 512K. Floppy drives, Monitors and even the mouse for the Amiga.
I keep waiting for a call from the Smithsonian.

Peace. Alan
MS Lumia ICON 929 [Win10 M, Insider Preview, Redstone 14393.5]

Hah, I've got an old Sinclair (my first actual programming), and our old IIe (the first real significant programming I did, mostly assembly language), or my parents have the IIe anyway, and are trying to downsize and give it to me ;-] This was the only real Apple device I ever did much work on, and Apple probably doesn't even consider it theirs anymore.
Everything in-between has long been jettisoned, but I'm hanging onto these, although the Smithsonian might convince me, gotta' love that place!

My cellular data expires in 2036. That's really far away -would we even be settling on Mars then?

There you have it, I bet they fix the 2038 issue by then, and you can find a used 3310.
They'll probably have a cell-relay or similar from Mars, you're set!

 

[abhishek singh21]

22 years is a long long time, that figure is over my age too. :3

well first microsoft windows PC was released in 1985 , almost 21 years back and today if we look at the technology around us we have progressed so much. So stop thinking about it, the industry is already aware of it and will do their best to nullify the bug. Y2K isn't happening again ;D

But when we are at it, the year 10,000 problem is also round the corner OMG xD

 

[techiez]

As some of you may already know, the "Year 2038 Problem" refers to a predicted event in which many (if not all) 32-bit devices will stop working due to a bug with the UNIX timestamp. However, Windows 10 Mobile is currently 32-bit. If I got a Windows 10 Mobile phone (with a 64-bit processor like the 950 or 950 XL, so that a 32-bit processor wouldn't be an issue), would the fact that Windows 10 Mobile is 32-bit mean that it would stop working in 2038?

Would MS be keeping W10M alive by then or it would have launched a android launcher by then.

 

[EspHack]

lol they already have a launcher