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12-12-2016 09:25 AM
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  1. quikmantx's Avatar
    There are a lot of issues with the future of W10M, but outside of the mainstream social apps, people haven't really mentioned the lack of prominent educational apps. There are a few (Khan Academy, Brain Pop, Lynda.com, etc.), but there are also many others out there not on W10M.

    It's obvious MS has moved towards targeting the business sector over the direct consumer sector. However, MS should also be targeting the education sector as well. The education sector has been moving in a digital direction for awhile now. MS provides software, tools and resources for students, but it still seems MS lacks a comprehensive suite of solutions for this sector. Meanwhile, young children and adults are getting more familiar with Chromebooks, Macs, Google Docs, and other solutions from competitors as institutions are turning away from MS in many cases. Losing out on the education sector is bad.

    I was reading a recent article by my local newspaper and they listed the 10 best apps that teachers and students find helpful for studying and active participation in the classroom. None of them have an app on W10M.

    • ClassDojo - iOS, Android, Kindle Fire, "any computer" (probably browser) [source]
    • Schoology - iOS, Android, Kindle Fire [source]
    • StudyBlue - iOS, Android, Web, Evernote [source]
    • TickTick - iOS (iPhone, iPad), Android (phone, tablet), Web, Mac, Chrome, Firefox, Chromebook, Android Wear, Apple Wear [source]
    • SoftChalk - content viewing has been tested only on iOS and Android 2+ higher; eReader app only supports iOS, Android, Windows 7+, Chromebooks, Chrome Browser [source]
    • XtraMath - iOS, Android, Amazon [source]
    • Kahoot - iOS, Android [source]
    • Trello - iOS, Android, Web, Slack; claims they support most mobile browsers including Safari on iOS 8, the Android 4.0+ browser, and Internet Explorer on Windows Phone. Not sure if W10M is included with "Windows Phone". [source]
    • eBackpack - iOS, Android, Windows 8+ (source: via web search for "ebackpack download")
    • Mathway - iOS, Android [source]


    How to request a W10M app:
    • ClassDojo - Click "Contact Us" to submit a request via a web form.
    • Schoology - Select "General Company Inquiry" and hit "Submit" to submit a request via a web form.
    • StudyBlue - Submit request via a web form.
    • Tick Tick - Continue adding comments onto this request or maybe even this request. You can search for all Windows 10 requests too in the search box on the main forum page.
    • SoftChalk - There are 5 to pick from on their contact page including General Information (learnmore [at] softchalk.com), Marketing (marketing [at] softchalk.com), Support (support.softchalk.com), Sales (sales [at] softchalk.com), and Webmaster (webmaster [at] softchalk.com). I picked General Information.
    • XtraMath - Email Erika directly to request the W10M app: erika [at] xtramath.org. According to XtraMath's FAQ, they don't plan to release an app for other platforms, but they will if there's enough feedback asking for it, and they provided Erika's email.
    • Kahoot - They have a UserVoice forum. This is the leading Windows 10 app discussion so far. 3 votes per person max.
    • Trello - press [at] trello.com; [source]
    • eBackpack - Submission form.
    • Mathway - Submission form.


    I think it's important the W10M community continue pushing other companies directly to support W10M. Whether its via submission forms on their websites, social media, email, phone, etc. Being vocal on tech sites doesn't help W10M when it's the outside companies/organizations that need to hear this.

    UPDATE: Here are the responses from the companies as of 2016-11-06:

    1. ClassDojo: No plans for a W10M app; suggests using their website on W10M
    2. Schoology: No response.
    3. StudyBlue: No response.
    4. TickTick: W10M app is in development!
    5. SoftChalk: No response.
    6. XtraMath: No plans yet, but might do it if more people request it. Here's a snippet from what their reply: "What we decide to implement and when depends in large part upon how often that feature is requested and how it fits in with our long-term vision for the program."
    7. Kahoot: No response.
    8. Trello: No plans for a W10M app.
    9. eBackpack: Plans for a WUA; states that the eBackpack Parent website is fully responsive and works great on W10M in their tests; "We do anticipate launching a Windows Universal App based on this in the future although exact product plans are always subject to change. That app should provide a wonderful experience on Surface tablets and phones alike. Windows phone currently comprises about 0.4% to 0.7% of the overall market depending on where you look (and less than 0.01% of traffic we have detected). I wanted to share this as while you should have no problems using it in a modern browser on these platforms, we do not consider it to be a major platform and is not part of any explicitly tested and supported platform nor a focus of ours going forward. Microsoft has stated their phone focus is on business users and accordingly, there should continue to be a decline in the consumer market and almost no utilization in schools."
    10. Mathway: No plans for W10M, but may consider it in the future.
    Last edited by quikmantx; 11-06-2016 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Updating with latest data
    10-15-2016 03:58 PM
  2. matt john2's Avatar
    This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.
    xandros9, techiez, EspHack and 3 others like this.
    10-15-2016 04:41 PM
  3. xandros9's Avatar
    This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.
    Same.

    Also ya missed Canvas and Blackboard Collaborate.
    libra89 and TechFreak1 like this.
    10-15-2016 05:14 PM
  4. cracgor's Avatar
    This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.
    I used to use the same logic the OP has for trying to get apps to the system. You either like W10M as is or you choose something else. The apps I need for my work have been missing for as long as I used WM.

    Makes me mad that they develop then abandon a hardware or software system...means developers have to start all over again and again. Can't blame them for quitting.
    10-15-2016 06:36 PM
  5. D21K's Avatar
    This topic has been beaten to death, Windows Phone lacks apps and practically dead, that's the reality and you just got to accept that. And it's actually a lot easier to jump ship to other OS than it is to wait for these apps to miraculously pop in the store.
    I agree on that, but maybe asking for uwp windows 10 app instead, some of those app could be useful for windows tablets and parents/students desktops, idk that could work
    quikmantx likes this.
    10-15-2016 07:45 PM
  6. quikmantx's Avatar
    Thank you. I did miss Blackboard. Haven't heard of Canvas.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    10-16-2016 05:01 AM
  7. quikmantx's Avatar
    This specific topic hasn't been beaten to death. I was specifically mentioning educational apps. I could only find one other post mentioning specifically educational apps. Please read my post more carefully.
    Kevin Rush, libra89 and FXi2 like this.
    10-16-2016 05:02 AM
  8. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    My local credit union didn't have a banking app for Windows phone so I wrote to them and asked for a Windows phone app and explained about universal apps. Now, months later, they introduced a universal app.
    I didn't really expect a Windows app, I really didn't absolutely "need" a banking app, but no harm in asking.
    .
    I have other stories in my life of writing to ask for change, expecting nothing, and then the change has happened. Not often, but some big and some small wins. You can't win, if you don't try. If you care about educational classroom apps, write to them.
    Best Wishes
    Last edited by Kevin Rush; 10-16-2016 at 06:45 AM.
    10-16-2016 06:00 AM
  9. daimv's Avatar
    I have a few stories of asking for an app and getting "not planned sorry" as a sad response. Sucks, but f... them.
    A few of the ones in the list would actually be useful for me, so I will send a few requests indeed.
    10-16-2016 07:58 AM
  10. daimv's Avatar
    And... done. Requested/Voted. Schoology is pretty cool. Kahoot is pretty cool. I hope they do release apps.
    Kevin Rush and quikmantx like this.
    10-16-2016 08:21 AM
  11. FXi2's Avatar
    I think this is a good article highlighting actual named apps needed and yes I'll help work on letting the vendors know. I suspect that many of these apps don't get steadily used on a phone but rather a tablet, so perhaps the UWP angle is a valid consideration here. Calling the platform dead is both wishful thinking (clearly you have no other point in saying that) and were it to happen you'd regret it. Competition is highlighting the weaknesses of all the platforms and that brings about changes and is good for the consumer. All of these vendors are having a positive effect on consumer options. So if you want to help on this topic, help. If not then please take the Glum oriented comments of "we're all doomed" somewhere else.
    10-16-2016 12:19 PM
  12. matt john2's Avatar
    I think this is a good article highlighting actual named apps needed and yes I'll help work on letting the vendors know. I suspect that many of these apps don't get steadily used on a phone but rather a tablet, so perhaps the UWP angle is a valid consideration here. Calling the platform dead is both wishful thinking (clearly you have no other point in saying that) and were it to happen you'd regret it. Competition is highlighting the weaknesses of all the platforms and that brings about changes and is good for the consumer. All of these vendors are having a positive effect on consumer options. So if you want to help on this topic, help. If not then please take the Glum oriented comments of "we're all doomed" somewhere else.
    Why take the hassle to ask these certain app developers to spread their greatness to Windows Mobile ecosystem when in the end they'll just gonna abandon it because of not enough users or (in some cases) no one actually use their products, just look at some big players like banking services that pulled their apps off the store.
    I've seen so many unfinished apps that are left and abandoned that I'm certain, the ones listed above if in some circumstances might bring their apps, will eventually soon be taking their apps down or leaving it unfinished. Now tell me, when's the last time where Windows 10 versions of apps were prioritised first, I personally can't recall such thing. And I'll be glad if they actually made their apps available for Windows Phones at all, which is very rare.

    There's really no point of clinging on the Windows Mobile ecosystem anymore when all apps you need are available and FAR more superior on other OS. Like Jaime Rivera said "It's not the phone, it's Windows 10 Mobile that's bottlenecking it"
    Last edited by xandros9; 10-16-2016 at 02:13 PM.
    10-16-2016 01:22 PM
  13. daimv's Avatar
    Whatever you say Matt.
    Some of us like Windows.
    Kevin Rush likes this.
    10-16-2016 02:41 PM
  14. matt john2's Avatar
    Whatever you say Matt.
    Some of us like Windows.
    I know, and that's really sad.
    daimv likes this.
    10-16-2016 03:01 PM
  15. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Voting on apps or contacting developers unless you have a direct interest in the app makes no sense. You shouldn't ask people to spam them just because you want windows to get more apps. You are giving false expectations to developers. You get 20,000 votes for an app that only 3 will use because of some social media ploy. That means the company will spend all this money and lose out in the end and become even more sour about windows mobile. Things have to happen naturally. The app gap would not be a problem if there were a revolutionary feature that draws curiosity from crowds. Something that makes media headlines globally. If a developer sees that something looks like it will become big they will get cracking on it right away.
    10-16-2016 04:53 PM
  16. daimv's Avatar
    Well I voted/requested the ones I have a direct interest in, so no harm done. I believe most people will do the same.
    Kevin Rush and quikmantx like this.
    10-16-2016 08:27 PM
  17. TechFreak1's Avatar
    Voting on apps or contacting developers unless you have a direct interest in the app makes no sense. You shouldn't ask people to spam them just because you want windows to get more apps. You are giving false expectations to developers. You get 20,000 votes for an app that only 3 will use because of some social media ploy. That means the company will spend all this money and lose out in the end and become even more sour about windows mobile. Things have to happen naturally. The app gap would not be a problem if there were a revolutionary feature that draws curiosity from crowds. Something that makes media headlines globally. If a developer sees that something looks like it will become big they will get cracking on it right away.
    The lack of educational apps directly stems from the lack of consumer focus and mind share.

    I partially agree that it doesn't make sense however it's a chicken and egg situation.

    Let me explain (this is not directed at you Krystianpants just my general outlook )

    If you don't have apps - you can't bring users on board - lack of users means - uninterested developers.

    This is why retaining mind share is absolutely critical as perception is THE fundamental principle to anything as it defines how we interact day to day.

    In various sectors it's simply called Brand Awareness and in sales - you're selling a dream, a life style - which is why when you look at Apple adverts it's inherently about life style or the possibilities. So when you combine that with a short and a memorable jingle - you end up with a rather memorable advert. For example the advert where a cyclist is preparing to go out into the rain with his iphone 7. He doesn't go out into the rain in the end (which is genius) and that enables the audience to project their own story, their own "possibilities" - ergo lifestyle {Perception}.

    Should it turn out that Microsoft will go full steam ahead and just focus solely in the enterprise for mobile not consumers (therefore by extension foregoing the consumer educational sector) - they will lose. They would have simply burned too many bridges to come back. It will take a long time for them to come back and that is presuming they throw everything at mobile - given the current trend that is hard to say.

    Axing the Surface Mini just before launch doesn't really fill the average joe with confidence as that can be extrapolated and spun in the way most of the technosphere is doing - that seed of doubt is a powerful notion. Furthermore the average consumer will not know anything about the "ground breaking" features that may have added.

    Let me briefly explain why I have adopted this stance:

    The next paradigm shift is underpinned by mobile, why?

    Continuum.

    Continuum I believe is the transient stage between traditional computing and holographic computing.

    In laymen terms by allowing users to become mobile therefore untethered you completely do away with the traditional desktop and laptop work/home scenario. I'm not saying desktop windows is going away completely but it is in the traditional sense as the majority of the populous no longer need a desktop or laptop day to day to do basic tasks.

    Which is why an x86 phone is not the way to go.

    Enter the advent of VR headsets, Hololens, Ai and Bots now that people have become accustomed to carrying one device to their computing needs. With the proliferation of VR headsets and AR headsets which are bound to follow; Bots will become the defacto method of interaction. You can see it now as you look at the younger generation - they are all glued to a screen. The ramifications of untethered headsets and practicality is a topic for another discussion - want to keep this extremely brief lol.

    To outline the rate of progress:
    When I was growing up - my IT lessons consisted of keyboard with a tiny monochrome screen which had a print function annoyingly close to the back space key, pressing this would completely wipe the memory and print out little strips of data. If you didn't have the printer attached.... you were pretty much screwed lol. By the time I was about to leave school at age 11 we finally got two computers that had dial up.

    These days kids have access to tablets that have more processing power than the computers we had in libraries (IT lessons were 2 hours - you turn the machine on and almost 2 hours later they will boot up... When I left secondary at 16 they got awesome new computers. Now 12 years on we have VR headsets, we have boosters which are capable of returning back to the launch pad).

    So yes, if they do not focus on the consumer market here and now they will not only have undermined the universal app platform but set forth a motion that will become irreversible over time. Apple and Google already have a vast number of apps which through time will be updated to cater to the evolving needs of people. Presuming both Apple and Google will remain stationary is beyond incredibly naive to put it politely and Google's acquisition of API.AI proves this (another example is the 2014 purchase of Deepmind for 400 million).

    The success of hololens hinges on the fact it has a vibrant number of apps when it is released, sure not every app makes sense on Hololens but the age old notion of "larger the number, the better it is" will always be true.

    The crux of it all is battery technology but that is neither here or there as that is a matter for another discussion (otherwise I will end up typing up a novel )

    So yes, it is undeniably a chicken and egg situation - if there is no demand for eggs and chickens why would farmers bother to rear chickens?

    Anyway, I am eager to see what they showcase in the event this month.
    Last edited by TechFreak1; 10-16-2016 at 11:24 PM.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-16-2016 09:02 PM
  18. Krystianpants's Avatar
    The lack of educational apps directly stems from the lack of consumer focus and mind share.

    I partially agree that it doesn't make sense however it's a chicken and egg situation.

    Let me explain (this is not directed at you Krystianpants just my general outlook )

    If you don't have apps - you can't bring users on board - lack of users means - uninterested developers.
    snip....
    .

    Microsoft already tried the approach of paying developers to initially get apps on the platform. The issue with this is that the media attention around these apps leaving the platform make the platform seem worse than if things are quiet. So getting these education devs to make these apps because they believe interest is there will lead to something similar but will also lead the devs to have less trust for the user base. They are after all the ones who screamed for it but when it finally came it was ignored. At least if Microsoft pays the company is not down all that money.

    Satya is right. The ecosystem has to come naturally. It's why he canned the whole Android project. A viable mobile solution shouldn't depend on another ecosystem. So he's targeting the strengths to build the eco system. He's like the Dark Knight. His end goal is to make the Microsoft ecosystem better but he has to make sacrifices and look like the bad guy to get there.

    Again the only thing that will build this ecosystem quickly is that same enthusiasm the iphone gave users when it revolutionized tech. It went from Zero to hero not because it had a massive ecosystem already built up. No, it was unique, different and people wanted it. And MS needs that. Because otherwise it's more of the same thing. And all the press is bad. So no one will take chances.
    By focusing on the strengths the ecosystem has a better chance to grow but it takes time. 1 year just hasn't been long enough. Especially given that windows 10 is not finished and the APIs aren't finished. Gaming APIs, lots of feature apis. And things are changing. A good example is mytube and mytube beta. The developer explained how much the APi changed when anniversary update came. And it actually forces making code changes in order to have things work seamlessly. And that's how it is with an unfinished OS.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-17-2016 01:05 PM
  19. TechFreak1's Avatar
    First of all I will try to be brief as concise as possible otherwise I will end up typing a novel haha.



    1)
    Microsoft already tried the approach of paying developers to initially get apps on the platform. The issue with this is that the media attention around these apps leaving the platform make the platform seem worse than if things are quiet. So getting these education devs to make these apps because they believe interest is there will lead to something similar but will also lead the devs to have less trust for the user base. They are after all the ones who screamed for it but when it finally came it was ignored. At least if Microsoft pays the company is not down all that money.
    Paying developers is not the way go as there is no vested mutual interest.

    I agree that the media coverage has blown things out of proportion however Microsoft did not help the situation by swinging a massive axe to the mobile division and letting go insane amount of talent (or in statistical terms - resources). Unfortunately communication is not Microsoft's strong point for example I remember seeing a presentation about interactive tiles where the presenter point blank said something along the lines of "it allows users to interact with your app without bothering to open up your app"... *facepalm*.... that was well over a year ago. That video has since been pulled If I do find it again I post a link to it in this post.

    Microsoft needs to create excitement about what they are doing and unfortunately they keep cutting sdks, not using the developer tools that they make developers use. For example the band sdk, they used their own tools to code around it and get notifications to work with phones. How do you think that makes developers feel?


    2)
    Satya is right. The ecosystem has to come naturally. It's why he canned the whole Android project. A viable mobile solution shouldn't depend on another ecosystem. So he's targeting the strengths to build the eco system. He's like the Dark Knight. His end goal is to make the Microsoft ecosystem better but he has to make sacrifices and look like the bad guy to get there.
    Yes, the ecosystem has to come naturally however an ecosystem is not grown by solely focusing on the enterprise. You need consumer momentum ergo Xbox Entertainment Studios which could have developed merchandising such as Halo theme wireless chargers, Xbox themed docks now that Xbox runs on a variant of Windows 10. Then you throw in the accessory makers into the mix which also fuels further momentum - What is the point of having a Certified for Lumia moniker when you are going to axe the Lumia brand?

    The reason why Nokia was insanely successively they have had an insane amount of accessories and accessory makers; I can recall going through the market and seeing stall after stall there were tonnes for Nokia accessories from face plates, stylized keyboards, keyboards that lit up with ringtones and so on.

    Going back to Microsoft, do we have OEMs making accessories en-mass for Lumia phones or windows phones?

    Nope, we do not.

    To add to the conundrum Microsoft has high quality apps on both the competing market place and they even have their own launcher on Android. So how on earth is the ecosystem supposed to grow naturally?


    What happened to Windows best?


    By going to where the users are they inevitably going to cannibalise Phone sales. They needed to draw users to the phone platform for Continuum (I would blame that on lack of forward planning and communication between departments).

    People think Ballmer missed the mobile market, which is incorrect - Windows Mobile (Windows CE) existed long before the Iphone. It lacked a Unified store that was its downfall. Plus without OEM skins Windows Mobile was not even touch optimized.

    Again the only thing that will build this ecosystem quickly is that same enthusiasm the Iphone gave users when it revolutionized tech. It went from Zero to hero not because it had a massive ecosystem already built up. No, it was unique, different and people wanted it. And MS needs that. Because otherwise it's more of the same thing. And all the press is bad. So no one will take chances.
    By focusing on the strengths the ecosystem has a better chance to grow but it takes time. 1 year just hasn't been long enough. .
    They will not be able to grow the ecosystem quickly without any form of consumer momentum.

    To generate that enthusiasm they need to create mindshare and product placements aren’t enough to create mindshare.

    They need to throw hell of a lot more resources at mobile. instead of shying away from the consumer market.


    Microsoft is in the unique position unlike their competitors:
    They have a console, they dominate the desktop, They have a mobile play and until recently a form of wearable (if rumours turn about to be true)

    They easily could have leveraged the One Core aspect and made Windows Mobile central to everything and Zune had makings of that i.e. playlist updating over Wi-Fi. Sure we are seeing a unified store materialise but what good is a unified store if they aren’t going to focus on the consumer space?


    Also Infotainment systems, it boggles the mind that Microsoft is not even in this sector where as Google and Apple are.

    Here are some quick examples:

    You could easily stretch a unified store to the aforesaid systems and have your music, movies and TV show purchases sync across.

    Enable the user to project their phone and play games (You can still do that but I have yet to see an advert showcasing this), sync across contacts, map favourites and routes – save a route on your PC and its automatically synced to your car for when driverless cars hit the main stream. In the interim period of course you could use your phone but do you really want to risk the killing the battery day in and day out?
    Navigation apps usually put intense power drains on your phone and not to mention how hot they can get.

    A Xbox one dock for phones to leverage continuum and the x86 CPU to run repackaged Win32 apps. Not many people need laptops or PC’s but pretty much everyone owns a games console. Another Win-Win scenario.

    They could have used Zune to add enhanced music functionality to the band and for wireless streaming systems.


    They could have used the band as a secondary two factor authentication for pretty much anything.

    In terms of health they could have tied health vault to Xbox fitness and the band to enable additional functionality. Furthermore in conjunction with Kinect and sports you pretty much can simulate a realistic environment such as the friction difference between a clay court and grass court. This would've helped get people exercising more – Win- Win scenario. As they not only get good press they also are able to sell Xbox live subs and Fitness subs.

    This would then perhaps entice game developers think of more imaginative ways to use Kinect or/plus the band i.e. using the heart rate sensor in the band to dynamically create scary situations in horror games therefore increasing replay value and unpredictability.

    This list is endless.

    TDLR: Microsoft cannot forego the consumer market.

    Especially given that windows 10 is not finished and the APIs aren't finished. Gaming APIs, lots of feature apis. And things are changing. A good example is mytube and mytube beta. The developer explained how much the APi changed when anniversary update came. And it actually forces making code changes in order to have things work seamlessly. And that's how it is with an unfinished OS
    This is where Microsoft’s lack of a coherent strategy and the woeful decisions are clearly evident in the mobile space. Windows Phone 7 series when it launched it was unique. BUT they made the crazy decision of completely disregarding the enterprise and not to mention using Windows CE as its kernel. This by then was absolutely ancient.


    If one was to draw a pattern of growth for Windows Phone, instead of a clearly exponential trajectory is it's more akin to a wave. It peaks when Microsoft makes a silly decision and then it tanks.... then it rises then tanks at another silly decision.

    Windows 10 is not finished?


    It won’t be and will continuously evolve however Mobile on the other hand... they had insane amount of time to get it polished.

    Here is why and I'm being incredibly brief here:


    Windows Phone 7 Series:

    1)Windows Phone 7 Series did not support Landscape much (that is understatement)
    2)It ate msd cards by making them part of the O/S and flipping the secure bit so it couldn't be read in msd card readers that did not support "secure msd cards". This resulted in certified for Windows Phone 7 Series to hit the market
    3) Some phones instead of using on board flash memory used msd cards instead!
    4) They did not allow certain WM 6.x phones to be able to update to WP7 because it did not support the navigation ergo not a consistent user experience
    5) The reference design programme did not allow for landscape qwerty phones
    6) The search function was amazing in the US but disgusting everywhere else.
    7) They forced dead UX space by saying that the arrow on top of screen allowed for a cleaner look.
    8) No Copy and Paste support plus other basics until the NoDo update
    9) Still reluctant to add a file explorer
    10) Poor O/S design in terms of social feed attachment resulting in o/s updates per API / back end changes.
    11) No notification centre
    12) No smart dialling despite being available in WM6.x
    13) Back up features almost none existent
    13) Enterprise features pretty much none existent

    Windows Phone 8
    1) Email support was horrendous, adding an attachment defaulted to the photo hub.
    2) You could only attach one file from the office hub and only to a new email
    3) They are still reluctant to add a file picker / file explorer
    4) The UX is progressing well but they started to dismantle it by focusing on telemetry
    5) Poor O/S design in terms of social feed attachment resulting in o/s updates per API / back end changes.
    6) Poor Tap to pay implementation as it relied on carrier support via secure Sims
    7) Still no notification centre
    8) Removal of Zune and Music rebrand
    9) Back up features still woeful

    Wp8.1
    1) UX Dismantling is complete, hubs almost pretty much gone, Me tile is now a glorified social media launcher
    2) We finally have a file picker and notification centre
    Relaxed hardware configurations for OEM's but far too relaxed as some of these OEMs are not using standard buttons. Landscape support still woeful.
    3) The removal of rooms and use of live messenger as it’s messaging back end. They could have integrated groupme and Skype into rooms).
    4) Decent enterprise add-ons but needed a lot more here.
    5) Backup.. essentially no change...

    WM10)
    1) They broke their promise of getting Windows 10 Mobile on all devices (understandably due to the lack of resources)
    2) They pandered to the iOS and droid crowd which has resulted to a mish-mash of a UX.
    For instance To copy and paste in one note now you have to tap and hold for the copy+paste bar, however that is solely changing.
    3) Massive downsizing in the mobile division has lead to slow progress as they only have a certain amount of resources to allocate. This in turn means we have to wait a lot longer for basic features such as landscape panorama support and so on.
    4) You would think that they would focus on decent back up client before rolling out the insider programme...


    Again for each version I could go on and on.


    I can understand that most of these decisions happened when each department acted independently. But seriously no other company has been in this state of flux when it comes to mobile.


    TLDR: Microsoft cannot take a hiatus from the consumer market or they will lose in all sectors.
    10-18-2016 01:35 PM
  20. Kevin Rush's Avatar
    Re: TechFreak1,
    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
    Very well thought out and said. I wish Microsoft would listen to your point of view.
    Last edited by Kevin Rush; 10-18-2016 at 11:04 PM.
    TechFreak1 and libra89 like this.
    10-18-2016 10:53 PM
  21. David Steadson's Avatar
    Satya is right. The ecosystem has to come naturally. It's why he canned the whole Android project. A viable mobile solution shouldn't depend on another ecosystem. So he's targeting the strengths to build the eco system. He's like the Dark Knight. His end goal is to make the Microsoft ecosystem better but he has to make sacrifices and look like the bad guy to get there.

    Again the only thing that will build this ecosystem quickly is that same enthusiasm the iphone gave users when it revolutionized tech. It went from Zero to hero not because it had a massive ecosystem already built up. No, it was unique, different and people wanted it. And MS needs that. Because otherwise it's more of the same thing. And all the press is bad. So no one will take chances.
    Sure, but how are you going to get enthusiasm when you drive away your own fans? We're a startup and use Office365. We also have been using Slack and Asana as they do some stuff better than the O365 solutions. But MS released Planner and we're looking at migrating to that from Asana. Skype Teams looks like it will be better than Slack, so we're hoping to jump on board that.

    Except here I learn that MS is working on Planner apps for iOS and Android, but not Windows Mobile, and today I also discovered the same for GigJam.

    Forget consumer apps, these are enterprise apps, developed by Microsoft as part of Office 365, and they're not supporting the "enterprise focused" Windows 10 mobile either.

    My "enthusiasm" is rapidly draining.
    TechFreak1 and xandros9 like this.
    10-19-2016 07:51 AM
  22. daimv's Avatar
    Planner IS planned as a UWP app.

    Originally posted by daimv
    Also in the office roadmap site, there is this :

    Mobile experiences in Office 365 Planner
    Office 365 Planner will deliver refined mobile web experience*across platforms*and will be available as a Windows Universal App.

    http://fasttrack.microsoft.com/roadmap#I-38611

    Hopefully gigjam will do it too.
    TechFreak1 and David Steadson like this.
    10-19-2016 01:18 PM
  23. Krystianpants's Avatar
    TLDR: Microsoft cannot take a hiatus from the consumer market or they will lose in all sectors.

    Holy man! hahah. That is years of built up frustration.

    First of all, yes windows 10 is not finished. You are arguing with Satya who said it will take 2 years to finish windows 10 and it will act as a service. The initial windows 10 release integrated the new UI and got the servicing model in place to be able to update it easily on the fly. The first real step was merging the core and adding any features planned. This project is not a new OS it's a new OS being built on top of another by migrating things over. This is the best way to allow the public to get it early in order to build momentum and user base but try maintain stability while building it out. Year 1 is the anniversary update and redstone 2 is supposed to be the final complete migration if it doesn't get delayed. But sounds like it could get delayed to Redstone 3. Even moving the control panel over, file explorer and all that stuff. But the base code/apis and all that have to be in a finished state where any changes will not force devs to change things just to maintain stability or performance. When finished api changes will simply fix issues or add new features to use or not use. Once it's finished like all OS's you keep getting new security/bug fixes and all that. But then new versions will add/upgrade new features not just simply move a feature over to the new UI.

    And you know what makes me roll my eyes the most? When people complain that all this time has been passing and the mobile version still has problems, still missing features, etc. Well I don't know if anyone has been paying attention. MS said they will not be focusing on mobile. They are planning to add more mobile focus for redstone 2/3.

    See MS had a neat model. It rose to the top through OEMs and not their own hardware. And then once OEMs had enough share they were able to add their own hardware. This way MS wasn't directly competing against these top players, and they had enough shares and usage to be known as good brands in the PC world. In the mobile world MS did the opposite by becoming the first and most recognized brand for windows phones. OEMs now have a big issue because MS controls the software so the assumption is the hardware/software combo will always be better than the competition. You can't compete against that. People will always be waiting for the latest MS product. So they wanted to destroy that association and let OEMs have time to start getting a foot in the door. The problem is that it didn't work out so well for them so they stopped putting as much effort into the mobile software. Well there's only so much hardware can do. So the partners who are releasing windows mobile are stuck waiting on MS to get out of hibernation. HP sees potential so they do what they can with the software and they provide a nice solution for companies. And I'm sure that part of their deals promises updates. This sort of lets them roll out slowly to big companies and test themselves out in this market. Gaining experience for when the tech and the software can provide them more. MS makes it a point to mention their focus on enterprise so that consumers aren't waiting for them and deal with OEMs. My guess is that whartonbrooks is a company MS is working with closely because they need to let OEMs take shares in the consumer market before they enter at all. Even if they design the phones with them and work on the whole thing with them, it needs to be known it wasn't MS who did it.

    MS doesn't need to be in the consumer market for hardware. It never was with PC/laptops/notebooks and somehow the consumer shares for windows is higher than mac who does do hardware for consumers. It just needs to develop software for consumers. And it does that. Windows 10 will always be for all audiences. Again feature parity between desktop/mobile will be really as close as it can be.

    It just needs to inspire partnerships with OEMS and all parties must put as much effort into it as possible.

    Heck even for apps a lot of developers are waiting for next year. And that's likely due to windows 10 not being finished. I honestly see all these complaints in ratings/reviews for apps where it is likely the operating system doing it and sometimes you see these exact bugs being mentioned in changelogs when a new release comes. It's not good for developers as a lot of people will never update these ratings once everything is fine. And with the small share in windows there isn't enough newcomers to raise your score once things are patched up.


    Anyways, I see your frustrations with mobile. But honestly it's all these mistakes they made that helped create windows 10. An operating system so modular that it will conform to any hardware, doesn't require a complete rewrite every year to follow tech trends or gain users. And no the UI stuff was for your benefit in a way. It would allow apps to come to mobile while mobile market share is still low. If the apps on the mobile side showed high usage devs could make independent UI changes and put a little more effort into them. Also this would allow devs to port IOS apps a lot easier. The hamburger menu works much better on a PC with a mouse but can also work on mobile. So you publish your app to mobile as well no extra work needed. And again this stuff is constantly being tweaked as they work on windows 10 to see the best design to use. Windows maps is a pretty good example of this. MS first released a version that was similar on both PC and mobile. They tweaked both. And then after updated the mobile version to have a diff UI. That required extra work specifically for mobile.

    Anyways, it's easy to point out someones failures and how you would have done things differently once it's already been done. But all these arm-chair CEOs on the internet think that they would solve the whole windows mobile crisis.

    Honestly I haven't been around on windows long enough to experience all the frustration. In fact, I never knew what it was till I decided to try a cheap 520 i saw in a grocery store... yep a grocery store. And I did end up liking it. I have no frustration about the past because I like the current vision and I like my device for what it gives me. But honestly if I was in your shoes and all I could focus on was these mistakes and negative stuff, I would be back to ios or android. It's like your significant other breaks up with you and you live in misery because you have this small amount of hope that you guys may get back together hehehe.

    For me the positive far outweigh the negative otherwise I would jump ship. And honestly with android nougat and ios 10 evolving, I'll take a good look at all the solutions available in 2017 with what fits me best. If Microsoft continues to be my #1 choice I'll go for them. I buy what fits my needs.
    10-20-2016 02:08 PM
  24. quikmantx's Avatar
    I know the feeling. But it doesn't hurt to try. There are many companies that actually track these type of requests and prioritize based on how many requests they get. This is true for W10M requests as well.
    daimv likes this.
    11-06-2016 03:19 PM
  25. quikmantx's Avatar
    Exactly. Whenever any group in Microsoft prioritizes supporting or adding features on their competitors' platforms over Microsoft's own platform, it's a win-lose situation for Microsoft as a whole. Sure, the users on the other platforms will be happy, but it will also hurt the perception of Microsoft's own platform. Everyone will view it as a weakness of Microsoft's platform, whether you use Microsoft's platform or not.

    The problem lies in the leadership. If the CEO of Microsoft says the mantra is mobile-first and cloud-first, this needs to trickle down to every part of Microsoft. It's unacceptable to see a company so dysfunctional around a market strategy (in this case Microsoft and the smartphone market).
    11-06-2016 03:26 PM
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