11-03-2016 12:01 AM
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  1. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    I really hate that WC post articles that showcase the failure of Windows Phone as some sort of grand scheme from Microsoft to rise again stronger and better. Failure is never in the grand scheme of success. It happens along the way but it is never in the plan. Windows Phone is doing bad right now and anyone can see this. As a WP user It's bugging me because I really love the platform but how long are we going to ignore the elephant in the room? There's no enterprise strategy that's going to save WP. There's no Surface Phone that's going to save WP. The issues with WP have nothing to do with Microsoft creating bad hardware because the HP elite has great hardware, the Lumia 950 and 950xl both have great hardware specs as well. The issue is Windows 10 mobile. If anyone at all on Microsoft's Windows 10 mobile team used a WP as a daily driver they would be able to spot the many bugs, inconsistencies and just straight problems and limitations of W10M with ease. I hate to have to go back to iPhone after the life of my 950 but the platform is dead. This explains why Lenovo refuses to make a mobile product running it. How long are we going to ignore the obvious? Even around here It's easy to note the absence of users. Microsoft has done a lot to push us away. We have great devices running bad firmware and bad software with no sort of fix in sight. We ask for features and fixes and we get ignored or have to endure years worth waiting as if Microsoft isn't a software company first. We have poorly supported apps, Wi-Fi bugs, Bluetooth bugs, half us can't get Groove to recognize our SD cards, the whole 950 series has heat issues, even the great 1520 had well documented phantom taps. The sad part is It's been years and it seems the 1520 on W8.1 was probably the most stable we'd get. How long are we going to ignore the elephant in the room here. W10M is bad, it could be great but it's just bad. We're just finding ways to circum navigate through the good parts of it. Like many others, I would love to see the platform rise but I would hate for Microsoft to create a great Surface Phone only to have the whole Surface brand image tainted for running the same bad OS with the same issues. I just can't continue to ignore the obvious. I'm still on the platform but it's clear my next phone will not be on the same platform and based off the direction of things that probably won't even be by choice.
    10-27-2016 04:59 AM
  2. boky69's Avatar
    Bravo.
    My lumia 930:
    Microphone issues (only primary work ok)
    Wifi issues ( no conect ,restart required)
    Display flickering on edge network,sometime on second refresh start screen
    Heating
    Camera in low level light is terrible.

    This is flagship?
    No.
    10-27-2016 05:32 AM
  3. Blade800's Avatar
    Failure is part of the recipe for success.
    10-27-2016 06:08 AM
  4. cnashx's Avatar
    Bravo.
    My lumia 930:
    Microphone issues (only primary work ok)
    Wifi issues ( no conect ,restart required)
    Display flickering on edge network,sometime on second refresh start screen
    Heating
    Camera in low level light is terrible.

    This is flagship?
    No.
    Your phone is over 2 years old...

    But coming from someone that has been on the "new" windows mobile/phone for only a year when I pre-ordered my 950xl (coming from mostly iOS, and only dealt with Windows Mobile back in the CE days). The platform is no worse off than any other. Bugs are going to be on any platform. I enjoy Windows Mobile and haven't even thought about leaving. I am actually considering getting an hp elite x3. Granted, I am waiting for the next "big" thing, but who isn't in today's technology centric society?
    10-27-2016 06:44 AM
  5. boky69's Avatar
    Your phone is over 2 years old...

    But coming from someone that has been on the "new" windows mobile/phone for only a year when I pre-ordered my 950xl (coming from mostly iOS, and only dealt with Windows Mobile back in the CE days). The platform is no worse off than any other. Bugs are going to be on any platform. I enjoy Windows Mobile and haven't even thought about leaving. I am actually considering getting an hp elite x3. Granted, I am waiting for the next "big" thing, but who isn't in today's technology centric society?
    My phone not old 2 year
    Version hw 2.0.0.2
    Build creation 15.6. 2015
    In 8 month 2015 use first time
    10-27-2016 07:11 AM
  6. Wolfjt's Avatar
    I really hate that WC post articles that showcase the failure of Windows Phone as some sort of grand scheme from Microsoft to rise again stronger and better. Failure is never in the grand scheme of success. It happens along the way but it is never in the plan. Windows Phone is doing bad right now and anyone can see this. As a WP user It's bugging me because I really love the platform but how long are we going to ignore the elephant in the room? There's no enterprise strategy that's going to save WP. There's no Surface Phone that's going to save WP. The issues with WP have nothing to do with Microsoft creating bad hardware because the HP elite has great hardware, the Lumia 950 and 950xl both have great hardware specs as well. The issue is Windows 10 mobile. If anyone at all on Microsoft's Windows 10 mobile team used a WP as a daily driver they would be able to spot the many bugs, inconsistencies and just straight problems and limitations of W10M with ease. I hate to have to go back to iPhone after the life of my 950 but the platform is dead. This explains why Lenovo refuses to make a mobile product running it. How long are we going to ignore the obvious? Even around here It's easy to note the absence of users. Microsoft has done a lot to push us away. We have great devices running bad firmware and bad software with no sort of fix in sight. We ask for features and fixes and we get ignored or have to endure years worth waiting as if Microsoft isn't a software company first. We have poorly supported apps, Wi-Fi bugs, Bluetooth bugs, half us can't get Groove to recognize our SD cards, the whole 950 series has heat issues, even the great 1520 had well documented phantom taps. The sad part is It's been years and it seems the 1520 on W8.1 was probably the most stable we'd get. How long are we going to ignore the elephant in the room here. W10M is bad, it could be great but it's just bad. We're just finding ways to circum navigate through the good parts of it. Like many others, I would love to see the platform rise but I would hate for Microsoft to create a great Surface Phone only to have the whole Surface brand image tainted for running the same bad OS with the same issues. I just can't continue to ignore the obvious. I'm still on the platform but it's clear my next phone will not be on the same platform and based off the direction of things that probably won't even be by choice.
    You are correct. There is no demand for Win 10 mobile for the enterprise. When you look at the platform it is locked down like iOS. CE was a beautiful OS for because of the development capabilities. Android is supplanting Windows for enterprise grade ruggedized devices. It's a shame but it's the truth. I loved Windows Phone but it left me I didn't leave it.
    aximtreo likes this.
    10-27-2016 07:48 AM
  7. cnashx's Avatar
    My phone not old 2 year
    Version hw 2.0.0.2
    Build creation 15.6. 2015
    In 8 month 2015 use first time
    Lumia 930 was announced April 2014, Released in July 2014... That's over 2 years old...
    10-27-2016 08:52 AM
  8. boky69's Avatar
    Lumia 930 was announced April 2014, Released in July 2014... That's over 2 years old...
    Yes,released first hw version. My phone is second,i think,and made in china...
    10-27-2016 09:47 AM
  9. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    Originally posted by boky69
    Originally Posted by cnashx
    Lumia 930 was announced April 2014, Released in July 2014... That's over 2 years old...
    Yes,released first hw version. My phone is second,i think,and made in china...
    Made in China? There's your problem. The issues you describe have been an ever present since the phone was released. Iffy screen, unnerving heat issues and everyone's favourite, bad battery life etc. Firmware isn't the issue, the device is still over two years old, no matter what.
    10-27-2016 04:14 PM
  10. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    The OP raises some valid points. I have been a long term user of WP now. I have 14 of them in my business, and even I am starting to get twitchy. The devices are good, just not pretty or trendy enough for the fashionistas, whom make up a vast number of the devices sold on the other 2 OS's.

    The idea of windows 10, as a whole, isn't a bad idea perse, but the size of the task in implementing it has caught MS out. You are trying to get a square peg into a round hole when you think of the plethora of desktops, tablets and laptops, all with different specs etc. Then you add in Xbox, holo and Mobile, its a daunting task.

    Mobile users, as the device is there main interaction for 10-12 hours a day, demand an OS with reliability. They want it to connect to WiFi, without a restart, connect to mobile data reliably and stay in touch with Bluetooth devices. These are just three BASIC area's where W10M still fails. I still get the 'no internet, 'cannot connect', Bluetooth failing during a call, and having a 4G signal that drops to edge as soon as I open Edge browser, this is a regular occurrence, especially at Gatwick or Heathrow. It can't be down to cell overload as my old galaxy note 3 on the same network, connects. Why???? These are the things that just put people off, they are the very basic requirements of a 'phone'. Without reliable WiFi or 4G connections, how are people supposed to twitface etc? How can it be a truly reliable 'mobile' device when a data connect is so unreliable?? The WiFi issue has been present on the 930 since its release, and continues to be so.

    As I said, I am a heavy user of the OS and like it, but these 'basics' shouldn't be an issue. It's not a real issue for my drivers, unless they are stuck at an airport and tracking a flight. As the OP says, it 'feels' as if MS don't know where they are going, or what they want to achieve with the mobile branch. IMHO, they are screwed which ever way they turn.

    The whole Windows Phone moniker is TAINTED, ridiculed and scorned. It's going to take divine intervention to see us around the next few buzz words... Retrenchment, paradigm and curve....

    Me? I'll see it through until my business contracts are nearing their end, and assess the 'curve' then ;-)
    10-27-2016 04:35 PM
  11. gtbuzz's Avatar
    I couldn't possibly agree with this more. Perhaps I'll revisit at some point in the future but Windows 10 Mobile is such a buggy mess that I can't stand using it anymore. It's blatantly obvious that nobody inside Microsoft actually uses this platform as a daily driver, otherwise some of these bugs would never have seen the light of day. And I'm not on a 2 year old phone either, I'm on a 9 month old phone in the L950XL.

    Just some of the bugs
    - CONSTANT hangs / resets. I'd say at least 3-4 times a day
    - Photos app shows numerous duplicates (been like this for 2 months maybe? Inexcusable!!)
    - "Turn wifi back on in..." doesn't work with the wifi toggle
    - Clicking on an email notification usually brings up the last email I looked at, not the one I clicked on (again, if anyone inside Microsoft USED the platform, they would FIX THIS)
    - Notifications sometimes just stop coming in for 3rd party apps until I do a hard reset (power + volume down) of the phone. Just rebooting doesn't fix it
    - Functionality for the flashlight toggle is inconsistent. Sometimes pressing the power button (like in previous versions) would turn it off, now it's a 50/50 proposition. Who knows how it works
    - Text messages on SIM 2 take > 25 seconds to load
    - Resuming.... Resuming... Resuming.... Resuming... How on earth can a simple application like the DIALER take forever to load?

    This is all crap with a 1st party device!

    And while this isn't a bug, Windows 10 is quite often an ugly mess. WP7/8 could be a work of art, nearly everything was laid out beautifully and thoughtfully. WM10 on the other hand... I think this screenshot should speak for itself:

    wm_ugly.jpg

    And on the topic of the above screenshot... I think the Fly Delta app is gone. I did a factory reset of my device in hopes of clearing up some of the issues I've been experiencing, but this time didn't load from a backup. Even as crappy as it was, I depend on that app. Hate to say it but I think that may be the final nail in the coffin.
    aximtreo likes this.
    10-27-2016 05:09 PM
  12. sd4f's Avatar
    I think that MS' rollout of W10M is to blame. Their decision to draw a line and basically throw their WP8 users out into the lurch was a sort of gamble which they lost. Rather than getting existing customers to 'upgrade' they just lost customers.

    Complete and utter failure!

    There were some signs of promise with UWP, but that also appears to not be working. I guess, if they think they need to start again, well there aren't really that many users left to abandon, but I think the critical issue has been that they just haven't been able to stay on track, the chop and change has to have made some large contribution to the failure.
    10-27-2016 05:32 PM
  13. eshropshire's Avatar
    Is that any different from Win 6.5 mobile to Win 7 (this one is understandable 6.5 was a mess, I was stuck on that for 2 years) or Win 7 Mobile to Win 8 mobile. From what I have seen Microsoft has not been really good at upgrades from version to version.
    10-27-2016 05:47 PM
  14. Charles Roddie's Avatar
    There's no enterprise strategy that's going to save WP.
    I agree there isn't but there could be. WP is still good for enterprise with good management and much better exchange support than others.
    There's no Surface Phone that's going to save WP. The issues with WP have nothing to do with Microsoft creating bad hardware because the HP elite has great hardware, the Lumia 950 and 950xl both have great hardware specs as well.
    I think a surface phone could save the platform. 950 and 950xl were very disappointing designs and didn't inspire the love that the 1520 did. Elite x3 looks better but not as great as the Surface phone mockups going around.
    The issue is Windows 10 mobile.
    I disagree. WM10 is in an excellent state with a mix of power and simplicity, a good app platform, and a lot of new features.

    The problems is apps. You need to have at least the top 100 apps on the platform. Once you start to lose apps in the top 10 (ebay, amazon) the platform is in critical condition. You can't survive even in enterprise if you don't have those.

    If MS did have a business strategy and made a surface phone and bribed a few companies to continue their apps, it could extend the life of the platform for a couple of years, long enough for the Windows Store to get much better. The technology for UWP apps is only just being finalized (UWP itself recent, .NET native coming in now, Xamarin just bought...).
    10-27-2016 05:53 PM
  15. abhishek singh21's Avatar
    Just some of the bugs
    - CONSTANT hangs / resets. I'd say at least 3-4 times a day
    - Photos app shows numerous duplicates (been like this for 2 months maybe? Inexcusable!!)
    - "Turn wifi back on in..." doesn't work with the wifi toggle
    - Clicking on an email notification usually brings up the last email I looked at, not the one I clicked on (again, if anyone inside Microsoft USED the platform, they would FIX THIS)
    - Notifications sometimes just stop coming in for 3rd party apps until I do a hard reset (power + volume down) of the phone. Just rebooting doesn't fix it
    - Functionality for the flashlight toggle is inconsistent. Sometimes pressing the power button (like in previous versions) would turn it off, now it's a 50/50 proposition. Who knows how it works
    - Text messages on SIM 2 take > 25 seconds to load
    - Resuming.... Resuming... Resuming.... Resuming... How on earth can a simple application like the DIALER take forever to load?
    correct me if i am wrong but i am completely sure that these bugs are not present in the current public build on windows 10 mobile and if you are an insider then you cant judge a devices performance over an incomplete os. the above mentioned glitches were present in early builds but now have been fully resolved, infact the calendar tile bug that left the tile unchanged or killed the live tile has been fixed after a recent app update .
    10-28-2016 01:13 AM
  16. abhishek singh21's Avatar
    from my POV Microsoft is soon going to change the hardware requirements for windows phone, as certain apps like Facebook have already made it clear that they require minimum of 2gb ram to work reliably. this will effect the OS as well, and will force Microsoft to revise the minimum ram required.
    10-28-2016 01:16 AM
  17. xandros9's Avatar
    from my POV Microsoft is soon going to change the hardware requirements for windows phone, as certain apps like Facebook have already made it clear that they require minimum of 2gb ram to work reliably. this will effect the OS as well, and will force Microsoft to revise the minimum ram required.
    Nah I don't think so. The existence of heavy applications like games and 3D tools doesn't mean Windows minimum requirements need to be able to handle those things.
    libra89, aximtreo and a5cent like this.
    10-28-2016 01:27 AM
  18. EspHack's Avatar
    a simple matter really, nadella is new in office, he cant go ahead doing same as ballmer did, thats exactly why investors and co. didnt like him, he was all in on wp and throwing money at the problem, same as he did with xbox and bing etc

    I'm sure as hell he has ideas and would love to push w10m just as badly, but he cant, money wont allow it, and so he has to let go and try later if at all

    just get some perspective, wp was always rising, doing better and better, it just wasnt good enough for the bosses, maybe it was close to, but it was cut off early, I mean we could by all means call it the 3rd major mobile OS back in 2013, if they were still going full steam till today just imagine what UWP and a varying 10-20% worldwide userbase + full on desktop dominance would mean to everyone

    now just see how he also killed the band, he apparently cant take any risks investing in things that dont make a profit next morning, expect the same fate for studio if it doesnt bring any revenue in the near future
    techiez, libra89 and Player Piano like this.
    10-28-2016 03:41 AM
  19. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    I seriously think these are the types of articles WC should be writing. At some point when are we going to hold Microsoft accountable for It's lack of support in It's mobile division? Why aren't they using what's left of the platform to speak out about the many problems I know they see are posted here in these forums all the time. It's the same thing when the Surface Book was released with so many bugs. WC didn't post a review until almost a year after it released. Why aren't they saying things about these issues? It just doesn't make sense as the voice of the users. We can't keep ignoring this thing.
    aximtreo, a5cent, libra89 and 1 others like this.
    10-28-2016 07:34 AM
  20. Christopher Lindsay's Avatar
    Failure is part of the recipe for success.
    Indeed, It's just an ingredient one purposely throws into the mix.
    aximtreo, a5cent and Player Piano like this.
    10-28-2016 07:38 AM
  21. aximtreo's Avatar
    Failure is part of the recipe for success.
    Restated: Failure opens the opportunity to succeed. I don't see anything out of MS that shows me they have learned this yet.
    a5cent, libra89 and EspHack like this.
    10-28-2016 07:47 AM
  22. aximtreo's Avatar
    These are the things that just put people off, they are the very basic requirements of a 'phone'. Without reliable WiFi or 4G connections,

    You misspelled ****. Adds a lot of umph to the sentence.
    10-28-2016 08:04 AM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    Mobile users, as the device is there main interaction for 10-12 hours a day, demand an OS with reliability. They want it to connect to WiFi, without a restart, connect to mobile data reliably and stay in touch with Bluetooth devices. These are just three BASIC area's where W10M still fails. I still get the 'no internet, 'cannot connect', Bluetooth failing during a call, and having a 4G signal that drops to edge as soon as I open Edge browser, this is a regular occurrence, especially at Gatwick or Heathrow. It can't be down to cell overload as my old galaxy note 3 on the same network, connects. Why???? These are the things that just put people off, they are the very basic requirements of a 'phone'. Without reliable WiFi or 4G connections, how are people supposed to twitface etc? How can it be a truly reliable 'mobile' device when a data connect is so unreliable?? The WiFi issue has been present on the 930 since its release, and continues to be so.

    As I said, I am a heavy user of the OS and like it, but these 'basics' shouldn't be an issue. It's not a real issue for my drivers, unless they are stuck at an airport and tracking a flight. As the OP says, it 'feels' as if MS don't know where they are going, or what they want to achieve with the mobile branch. IMHO, they are screwed which ever way they turn.
    Cabbie, I know you've been an outspoken proponent of the WP OS the last while. But I ask, is it really as bad as it sounds here? Because I would think that if you are relying on them for your business, relying on them for your drivers to stay in contact and keep appointments, that issues to this scale would be a huge issue! It seems to me that a few glitches could potentially cost you more in lost business than the cost of throwing the phones away and getting new ones. (I've ridden a cab in London, and I know what it costs! ) You said that your Note 3 (3 year old technology) is reliable where these are not.

    If it was really this bad, wouldn't you be better off to get even older, cheaper devices and use something that "just works"? Do your drivers like the Windows Phones, or do they have them because you like them?

    Kind of another subject, but do you still cook Android ROMs? That is something I've been interested in, but I'm not much of a developer. I've done a little VB, but I don't know much else. Do you have something you cooked on your Note 3?
    libra89, Great deal and aximtreo like this.
    10-28-2016 08:20 AM
  24. 6Kings's Avatar
    I was just talking about this the other day...Microsoft has some kind of issue with their connectivity on all their platforms, not just mobile. Laptops, Surface and phones have a lot of trouble all the time with wifi, bluetooth, and cell services. Whatever team is responsible for connectivity is completely failing in every release and every OS as it is unstable and a pain to connect at times. One thing I do like about apple products is they connect and work!
    10-28-2016 08:40 AM
  25. etphoto's Avatar
    How can this be "the elephant in the room" when this subject gets discussed at nauseam? Lol

    "I am leaving WP if . . .
    "W10 mobile sucks."
    "My next phone is an iPhone"
    Etc.





    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    aximtreo and fatclue_98 like this.
    10-28-2016 09:02 AM
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