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  1. Mad Cabbie's Avatar
    Hi all.

    Those who may had read my ramblings, will know that I have always seen things in a positive light, and have supported MS in their efforts, but my loyalty is being put to the test.

    I have read all of the news items about the plans, and I am now getting a bit peeved with the perpetual use of new 'buzzwords', to describe or excuse the state of affairs. You know the ones: retrenchment, Paradigm and 'the next curve' etc. These all sound hip and trendy and attempt to make things sound better, but the mean very little to the man on the street. The only thing that matters to the man on the street is there are no real devices running W10M, not even by the guys that make the OS, and there are issues with the basics of connectivity.

    I have many devices in my company, and just lately have started to encounter issues with the 640's and 640XL's. Bearing in mind they are on official release AU, these sorts of issues should just start occurring. I am talking about the 'no internet', Cortana 'no bandwidth', WiFi connection and dropping calls. I HR'd all of them and all was rosy for a day or so, here we go again. The wife took her elderly Note 3 with her to Heathrow today as well as her 950. The 950 showed 4G, as did the Note, both on same network. She opened Edge and couldn't open a web page, just the Mmmm we aren't connected etc. The Note went straight on found the page she needed and displayed all the flight info she needed. She rebooted the 950 and this time it searched through Edge. She tried again this afternoon whilst at Gatwick. The 950 showed 3G and the Note 4G. When she got back to the office, the Note picked up the router immediately, and the 950.......yep, no internet!! I know this isn't scientific by a long chalk, but it happens all over the place. She now takes the Note out and the 950 has found a new home in the drawer!

    Why can't MS get something as basic as that right? For me, a reliable phone and connection is paramount. I don't really need the apps ( that's another story ) but I need a regular and reliable connection. I have just got back myself from Stanstead Airport, and I took the N3 with me, to compare to my 950xl and my old brick 1320 on 8.1 . The N3 was the most reliable signal, the 1320 and then the 950xl. Is there an issue with the radios? I've not heard anything?

    Besides cell reception and WiFi issues, we have the bluetooth issues as well. I was under the impression that the last firmware was supposed to eradicated some issues. I don't know what is going on, but I am going to check my other devices. Drivers have commented about bluetooth dropping out or burbling so I guess I had better investigate further.

    Anyway, 'if' you were someone looking to join W10M and you had read about issues with the basics, would you sign up? And that's on top of the 'app gap' and a distinct lack of quality devices that are affordable. MS aren't new to OS's so why can't they get it right?

    IMHO, I do believe that there is little hope of a phoenix rising from the ashes. WP is toxic, a complete rebranding is in order. W10M is trying to be all things to all men, and even after an official release there are still annoying issues requiring a Soft Reset every other day, if not sooner. It was very reliable on 8.1, admittedly 10 is a new core, but even cortana went from beta to alpha!! Cerulian mobile talks a good fight, but so far they haven't produced anything other than spin that Trump and Clinton would be proud of. The Alcatel looks a promising device, if it is retailed outside of T Mobile to other carriers, but as mentioned in a comment post, it will probably sit collecting dust in the back of the store.

    Am I wide of the mark? I'll stick it out until my carrier business contract is up for renewal, but what happens then? I'm hoping for a successful 'relaunch' but at present I can't see that, despite the fact they keep updating apps i.e camera, Outlook etc.. To top it all off, I have read the news article where the MS engineer couldn't recall what continuum is!

    What do you guys and girls think?
    10-28-2016 02:07 PM
  2. EspHack's Avatar
    well you see, it just doesn't behave in a way we can "expect" because they probably no longer have the manpower to test it thoroughly, and I mean to the point of near perfection like WP7-8 days, back then, even almighty iOS was buggy in comparison, now they backtracked so hard in that regard with this thinking that "form over function is no good" and now we got neither!

    but to give you an idea, my "unsupported" 928 has better wifi-4g reception than high end laptops I see around, same for my icon, but my mom's 640 on the other hand, it can barely see the wifi in front of it, never ever had a problem with bluetooth even on TH2 on either phone, never did a hard reset, ever, coming all the way from WP8 GDR1

    of course I have plenty other issues, which you may have never even heard of, and thats how w10 goes, generally
    10-28-2016 05:31 PM
  3. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    Hi all.

    .........

    What do you guys and girls think?
    Over the past 3 months or so I did my due diligence and came up with:

    Galaxy S7Edge [ MM6.01 ] Daily Driver Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [ 14955.1000 ] Daily Toy Austin Healey 3000 class

    Peace. Alan
    libra89 and slivy58 like this.
    10-28-2016 06:42 PM
  4. libra89's Avatar
    I keep rereading your post @Mad Cabbie and what I'm interpreting is that you like W10M a lot, but sadly, it hasn't always worked in the way that it should. In my opinion (and experience), it's one thing to be annoyed with something that you're trying out acting up versus something you actually like. The former can be easily dismissed, the latter just hurts. Because we like the experience (really more so the UI/look/interface/whatever the word is) so much, we care and we want Microsoft to do better so that we can use what we like so much faithfully.

    However, that's hard when the reality is somewhat far from what you believe and that's what a number of loyalists are fighting here with. I think it comes a time when you have to decide if the frustration of not having simple functions work the way they should is worth dealing with in the name of loyalty. To someone curious and on the outside, they might think that we (including myself here) just sound ridiculous. I recall telling my brother that around Windows Central, it is often a commonly suggested solution to hard reset with every update and he looked at me like I had 2 heads and then said, "Whoa that's crazy!".

    You're very much on the mark. Unlike you, my desire to use Windows Mobile because it meets my idealistic aesthetics in design, minimalism/simplicity, and offers customization, just results in me not wanting to ever really let go, I'm not losing any business because of this. I have somewhat retired the idea of using a Windows Mobile device as a daily driver (for this year) but because I'll like to try to make it work, I still try it sometimes, even though I seemingly get the same results, due to app shortcomings.
    10-28-2016 07:55 PM
  5. slivy58's Avatar
    I keep going back to my "play phone" (L830) switching between 8.1 and 10, mostly in an attempt to see how far along the latter has evolved. Needless to say it results in me reverting back in short order to its native OS because as mentioned, MS has problems getting the basics right.

    When it comes to the two WP OSs, I love WP8.1 for its fluidity but certain aspects lack immensely, especially now that I’m using an S7 as my daily drive it becomes pretty evident. W10M fills in those gaps, somewhat, yet feels so departed as a whole, from my experience nothing really seems to gel as it should and then the inconsistencies and quirkiness of the OS itself become a thorn in ones backside, just can’t seem to win for losing.

    After having perpetual issues with 10 PCs as well, on many boxes, I’ve come to the conclusion MS has lost their mojo in the OS department. Just too many things keep going wrong that shouldn’t and as Mad Cabbie said, the basics, I cringe every time a cumulative or major update comes along because we know all too well something will break or be missing.

    Other than the diehards or curious I’m not sure what enticement there is to jump onboard the WP bandwagon especially if one is in the know. Just have to look at Black Berry’s debacle and although different, do believe the results will be the same for Window Phone, no matter what you do from hereon in will be enough to overcome the past, at least not for a very very long time.
    Last edited by Elky64; 10-28-2016 at 11:06 PM.
    10-28-2016 09:58 PM
  6. daimv's Avatar
    Sorry to hear that you are having those problems. I am using a 950 as a daily driver in both personal and work stuff and everything is mostly fine. (I was quite frustrated when I couldn't set a static IP address, but after the interop unlock came out, that has been solved)
    I can't say much about the 4G thing, but it might depend on the specific hardware/channels your carrier uses, mine have been fine so far. I remember having read a test of the radios in diffefent phones, and the 950 wasn't the best of them definitely. But for me it has worked quite well.

    I don't know how the hp elite or the alcatel, or the acer one, nuans neo etc are doing, but they MIGHT have better radios or work better in your specific case, but can't say, that probably depends on the specific hardware and firmware on each phone more than the OS.

    As for routers and wifi, it might be a similar issue. Currently I have been getting better wifi with my cellphone than with my laptop some times. But I can give you an example. A few years ago I had only the crappy router that my Internet Service Provider had given me, and an older laptop. That laptop would work completely terribly with the router, disconnecting so often if it managed to connect at all, that it was unbearable. The laptop worked fine everywhere else (except when there was a similar router involved). My phone at the time (might have been a nokia 808) connected just fine. I ended up changing the laptop's wifi card and got better performance, but still somewhat crappy so I bought a nice router and that was 1000 times better. The ISP's crappy routers tend to suck terribly most of the time, and cause those kinds of problems.

    As for bluetooth, I haven't used it with cars so far, so I can't say there, but my logitech bluetooth audio adapter works fine with the phone. As does the connectivity with my laptop, or with my bluetooth LED bulbs.

    Again, I'm sorry for the problems you have had, but I think it is not a problem directly coming from Windows itself. Of course that doesn't make the problem go away magically, but I hope I can give you a different perspective on it.
    Good luck
    10-29-2016 07:30 AM
  7. daimv's Avatar
    (still, sometimes there might be some stuff indeed related to the OS, every now and then OS updates' descriptions say things like "improves performance of bluetooth, wifi, etc")
    Shamshi-Adad likes this.
    10-29-2016 07:35 AM
  8. slivy58's Avatar
    Don't disagree that a router can be the source of many evils yet there hasnt been one update (phone/PC) that hasnt managed to infect at least one or two of my devices. Sometimes it sorts itself out but in most cases it requires my intervention to rectify and all too often, we end up spending more time than should be necessary. Considering connectivity, wifi, cellular and so on, are pretty much a necessity these days to take full advantage of ones devices, when it goes awry it soon become burden that basically disconnects us from todays world, it is sad in one way yet at the same time, reality.

    Ive been around the block enough to know that W10 (mobile & PC) generate enough inconstancies within the OS which IMO, are just unacceptable at this point and time, having to go through the rigmaroles of soft, hard resets, reinstalls, rollbacks, restores or spending hours, days or weeks wading through forums in an attempt to find solutions shouldnt be. In my experience the problems usually equate to multiples and not just one, we can live with the occasional issue but several really tries ones patience. Also, its too far along in the game to use the cards beta, preview or whatever, and the way I see it, a sorry excuse for incompetence.

    Not sure if MS bit off more than they can chew here with W10 in general or what, but playing on the dark side, (Android, iOS, Mac OS, Linux), there is a stark difference in the reliability and consistency end of things Yes I own them all so seeing it, or not, firsthand. This contradicts what Ive been reading about the competition in that many claim they are the worst, just not experiencing it on my end... Maybe its a case of me being just lucky, I think not.
    libra89 and Shamshi-Adad like this.
    10-29-2016 11:14 AM
  9. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    I keep going back to my "play phone" (L830) switching between 8.1 and 10, mostly in an attempt to see how far along the latter has evolved. Needless to say it results in me reverting back in short order to its native OS because as mentioned, MS has problems getting the basics right.

    When it comes to the two WP OSs, I love WP8.1 for its fluidity but certain aspects lack immensely, especially now that I’m using an S7 as my daily drive it becomes pretty evident. W10M fills in those gaps, somewhat, yet feels so departed as a whole, from my experience nothing really seems to gel as it should and then the inconsistencies and quirkiness of the OS itself become a thorn in ones backside, just can’t seem to win for losing.

    After having perpetual issues with 10 PCs as well, on many boxes, I’ve come to the conclusion MS has lost their mojo in the OS department. Just too many things keep going wrong that shouldn’t and as Mad Cabbie said, the basics, I cringe every time a cumulative or major update comes along because we know all too well something will break or be missing.

    Other than the diehards or curious I’m not sure what enticement there is to jump onboard the WP bandwagon especially if one is in the know. Just have to look at Black Berry’s debacle and although different, do believe the results will be the same for Window Phone, no matter what you do from hereon in will be enough to overcome the past, at least not for a very very long time.
    Hey, you're like me, you use an S7 and I use an S7E for the daily driver and then have a Windows phone to play with when the mood strikes.

    I don't know though, I sense myself possibly playing less and less with my ICON and spending more and more time with my S7E as the next month or 2 roll by.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.01] Daily Driver Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [14955.1000] Daily Toy Austin Healey 3000 Class
    libra89 and slivy58 like this.
    10-29-2016 12:00 PM
  10. slivy58's Avatar
    Hey, you're like me, you use an S7 and I use an S7E for the daily driver and then have a Windows phone to play with when the mood strikes.

    I don't know though, I sense myself possibly playing less and less with my ICON and spending more and more time with my S7E as the next month or 2 roll by.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.01] Daily Driver Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [14955.1000] Daily Toy Austin Healey 3000 Class
    Yes having the "full" package w/extras does make my S7 the better candidate for the job for sure and definitely play less with my 830.

    There’s something that keeps me coming back to Windows Phone to try but try as I might, the starkness or lack of extras along with the bugs, mostly w/W10M, soon brings one back to reality. IMO it could’ve, should’ve been much more but to-date it is not. Shame that my 830s demise will probably be from reverting OSs and the soft/hard resets rather than its intended usage.
    Shamshi-Adad likes this.
    10-29-2016 12:42 PM
  11. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    Yes having the "full" package w/extras does make my S7 the better candidate for the job for sure and definitely play less with my 830.

    There’s something that keeps me coming back to Windows Phone to try but try as I might, the starkness or lack of extras along with the bugs, mostly w/W10M, soon brings one back to reality. IMO it could’ve, should’ve been much more but to-date it is not. Shame that my 830s demise will probably be from reverting OSs and the soft/hard resets rather than its intended usage.
    I run nothing but the latest Insider builds on my ICON, but I gotta say I never have any problems with it that a one-time soft reset doesn't fix permanently. It's like I've just grown out of it. It's in mint condition, but I got to the point where I wanted a feature rich phablet. With the browser on that S7E I don't EVER need the server to give me the mobile version - its the FULL version every time. No more small screens for me.
    But when I read the Insider Forums here - these folks are in constant pain and ESPECIALLY the ones with the 950 and 950XL. It's a downer hangin' out with them and it's RARE that I can contribute anything.
    I still have hopes for Windows Phone one day - but I'm 68 and takin my own road now cause I want what I want and I want it NOW !!

    Peace. Alan

    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.01] Daily Driver Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [14955.1000] Daily Toy GT4 Class
    Last edited by Shamshi-Adad; 10-29-2016 at 01:21 PM.
    10-29-2016 01:04 PM
  12. gpobernardo's Avatar
    What do you guys and girls think?
    I was on the same page as you - supporter of MS, a somewhat endorser (unofficial and unpaid, of course) of Windows Phones to my colleagues and relatives, a believer in hope - and if I were to rant I probably would just repeat most of your sentiments. But to cut to the chase, I've moved over to iOS. W10M was so bad that I chose to use an iPhone 4s instead of my Lumia 1020. Now, I'm not seeing any W10M that can compare with the iPhone 6s, nor am I seeing any launch soon.

    My sister has my old Lumia 535 but is not using it. My grandfather has my older Lumia 1020, but he's using it mainly because of the camera. As for me, in place of the photography perks the Lumia 1020 used to give me, I've got a Fujifilm X-T1 and a few lenses (mostly manual and vintage ones).
    10-29-2016 01:45 PM
  13. slivy58's Avatar
    I run nothing but the latest Insider builds on my ICON, but I gotta say I never have any problems with it that a one-time soft reset doesn't fix permanently. It's like I've just grown out of it. It's in mint condition, but I got to the point where I wanted a feature rich phablet. With the browser on that S7E I don't EVER need the server to give me the mobile version - its the FULL version every time. No more small screens for me.
    But when I read the Insider Forums here - these folks are in constant pain and ESPECIALLY the ones with the 950 and 950XL. It's a downer hangin' out with them and it's RARE that I can contribute anything.
    I still have hopes for Windows Phone one day - but I'm 68 and takin my own road now cause I want what I want and I want it NOW !!

    Peace. Alan

    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.01] Daily Driver Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [14955.1000] Daily Toy GT4 Class
    Unlike you Alan my track record with 10 hasnt been so forgiving, wish it wasnt so. You have 10 years on me but, I want it now too, none of us are getting any younger with time just a wastin whilst technology waits for no one, unless youre MS aahahaha.

    Prior to 10s inception I started off with much excitement when purchased the Ativ S in Dec 2012, rekindled that excitement Nov 2013 with the Lumia 1020, then took possession of my 830 late 2014 but by then things were becoming questionable, what direction was the OS heading. After having gone through the Denim debacle it really set the stage, for me anyways, as to what one should expect from hereon in, ten just solidified those uncertainties I had at that time.

    Agree with the downer part and admit Im a contributor on the sad sack side, hard not to be if my experiences are telltale signs, sure it could be worse yet same goes for, it could or should be much better. Yes rare for me to contribute anything constructive, thats because Im on the needy end as well and have to choose between putting my time into helping others or fixing my own woes LOL. As of late that time spent has been insane (phone/PCs), one has to start questioning whether it is worth it or not.

    To put things in perspective and going back to say, 2007 onwards. I had Windows Mobile Phones (WM Pro 6.0), BlackBerrys and Androids, although not every one of them was the greatest performer it was rare that ANY required a complete refresh or hard reset as is the case now w/W10M. Other than me yearning for more features and a better camera they did what was intended of them without all the hoopla in-between. Sure things were simpler but why then can others in today world, keep a reasonable pace yet MS struggles to do so? Is it due to their lack of passion for the platform, not enough people on the team to cope, bit off more than they could chew with this newest OS, or all of the above? Like I said before, if we didnt know better Id be hard pressed to say this was coming from the designated guru of software.

    Have a great day
    libra89 and Shamshi-Adad like this.
    10-29-2016 03:05 PM
  14. slivy58's Avatar
    W10M was so bad that I chose to use an iPhone 4s instead of my Lumia 1020.
    WOE!!! An iPhone 4s competing with a 1020, now that's bad, camera notwithstanding of course or is it hehehe... Got to admit there are several people I know using the elderly iPhones w/o issue.
    gpobernardo likes this.
    10-29-2016 03:11 PM
  15. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar

    To put things in perspective and going back to say, 2007 onwards. I had Windows Mobile Phones (WM Pro 6.0), BlackBerry’s and Android’s, although not every one of them was the greatest performer it was rare that ANY required a complete refresh or hard reset as is the case now w/W10M. Other than me yearning for more features and a better camera they did what was intended of them without all the hoopla in-between. Sure things were simpler but why then can others in today world, keep a reasonable pace yet MS struggles to do so? Is it due to their lack of passion for the platform, not enough people on the team to cope, bit off more than they could chew with this newest OS, or all of the above? Like I said before, if we didn’t know better I’d be hard pressed to say this was coming from the designated “guru” of software.

    Have a great day
    AS far as MS's failings its "all of the above". We've made our choices and bailed, though we wish we hadn't HAD to. I, nor you I suspect will be spending any more money on Microsoft Phones. In a few more months I imagine my ICON will just be laying on a shelf somewhere in my electronics area, close-to-hand, but seldom reached for. And the same with these forums. They just won't pertain any more. I'll sure miss some good people here, but they'll be taking their turns in the road too.
    I can also see where in a month or 2 I'll be able to say I really, really love my S7E. I already carry it all the time - in my right hand - when I need my hand I slide the phone into my right rear pocket which exists solely for that phone. It's like I'm like a teenager and I want to be seen with a phablet lol. The phone just feels so good, but that's the case as well as the size of the phone.
    Anyways, that too will pass and then it'll just be part of my comfortable surroundings.
    Happy Trails.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.01] Daily Driver Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [14955.1000] Daily Toy GT4 Class
    Last edited by Shamshi-Adad; 10-29-2016 at 03:54 PM.
    libra89 and slivy58 like this.
    10-29-2016 03:42 PM
  16. gpobernardo's Avatar
    WOE!!! An iPhone 4s competing with a 1020, now that's bad, camera notwithstanding of course or is it hehehe... Got to admit there are several people I know using the elderly iPhones w/o issue.
    I know, right. Of course, the 4s camera still doesn't compare with that of the 1020 - haha - but I needed a phone that I can rely on - something that will call when I needed to, that will receive calls when someone was calling, that will actually let the other person hear me the first time around, etc.

    My father is actually still using his 4s, while the 4s I used is now with one of our housekeepers. But he's planning to retire it soon with the new iP7 now available.

    But anyway, that's how bad W10M was. I'm fully aware, though, that W10M isn't officially going to be released for the 1020 and that's what's probably causing all those lagging and functionality issues, but even before I went to W10M, back in WP8.1 the L1020 was already struggling in those areas. At first I hesitated even trying the 4s since I know it's older than to 1020, but to my surprise it was almost in every way faster (no LTE though) than the 1020. Fresh install or whatever it was, the 4s was more reliable in what a phone is basically supposed to do in the first place.

    I miss the tiles and having to see everything I need as soon as I unlock the screen, but guess what - those tiles won't help guarantee that my call will push through or that the person on the other side will hear me every single time.
    10-29-2016 07:01 PM
  17. Great deal's Avatar
    I think the main issues are that MS have let go of massive amounts of people many that were part of department dealing with these kind of issues. Coupled with thier detachment of all things Lumia and consumer in the mobile space lends to many more of these issues coming up. A part of me rolls my eyes at the BS articles about 'paradigm **** :P' and think perhaps MS have a hand in influencing what is shoveled out along with the tedious amount of product adverts/half baked reviews. Guess theirs not much to talk about anymore.
    Last edited by Great deal; 10-30-2016 at 06:30 PM.
    Shamshi-Adad likes this.
    10-30-2016 01:44 PM
  18. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    I think the main issues are that MS have let go of massive amounts of people many that were part of department dealing with these kind of issues. Coupled with thier detachment of all things Lumia and consumer in the mobile space lends to many more of these issues coming up. A part of me rolls my eyes at the BS articles about 'paradigm **** :P' and think perhaps MS have a hand in influencing what is shoveled out along with the tedious amount of product sales. Guess theirs not much to talk about anymore.
    Yeah, I think I'm gettin' weary of thinkin' and talkin' WinMobile. I think that's gonna wind down too over the next month or two.
    BUT:

    Happy Dog Here - Retired - I do what I want !!!

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.01] Daily Driver, Luxury Sedan Class
    Lumia ICON [14955.1000] Daily Toy, GT4 Class
    Great deal likes this.
    10-30-2016 03:27 PM

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