W10 Mobile x86 .exe Emulator

[EspHack]

I bet microsoft can ask intel for a solution, an ARM cpu with a "x86 accelerator" module maybe

 

[xandros9]

"x86 accelerator" module

Is that even a thing?

 

[a5cent]

Is that even a thing?

It doesn't exist yet, so no. But once it's here, you can market it under whatever name you want. Technically it would likely be called a x86 decoder (even intel x86 CPUs use a RISC instruction set internally, and the circuit that translates from x86 CISC to RISC microinstructions is called the decoder). Anyone can license ARMv8, so Intel could certainly build something like that if they felt there was a market for it... or MS asked and payed for it.

 

[EspHack]

Is that even a thing?

not yet, but just as we have h264 decoders for ages now and h265 soon to be common place, a similar thing for x86 is, in my mind, the way to go for this project

 

[speccy]

Can't see Intel going for this. Intel x86 play second fiddle to an ARM processor in the same device, not going to happen. A matter of pride surely.

 

[EspHack]

Can't see Intel going for this. Intel x86 play second fiddle to an ARM processor in the same device, not going to happen. A matter of pride surely.

that's a subjective matter, how about: hah! poor average ARM peasants need intel's x86 help to run REAL APPZZZ"

lol not trying to start a flame war, but we can look at it that way, and if it can be done that'd be a huge step in computing, exactly what the "ultimate mobile device" sounds like to me, at least hardware-wise

but even then, that wouldn't be enough, app gap still a problem, and I believe nadella plans to get rid of that problem for good with his bots master plan before going ahead with the ultimate thing, like, just make every service-app to be software/hardware agnostic, like any decent IT person would do, make your server run all needed/possible code, leave clients to be a simple GUI, so when your boss tells you he wants java app instead of whatever language was used before, you simply make a java GUI, no need to reinvent the wheel(rewrite the code)

 

[Kimmo Toivanen]

Eltechs seems to have had similar technology for a few years (https://eltechs.com/product/eltechs-engine/).

I have never heard of it before. I don't know if it is used anywhere by anyone. But combined with W10M and Continuum (or maybe MS has some project of their own) I guess it could run some Windows programs that do not expect too much from the hardware.

x86 CPUs are designed with CISC (complex instruction set)

x86s aren't what they used to be Instruction set is CISC (with some signal processing additions) but maybe internals of modern x86 cores are not too far from RISC cores.

 

[Rosebank]

I guess it could run some Windows programs that do not expect too much from the hardware.

This is similar to what I had in mind and what I detailed in my first few posts, then from there things could be expanded in development.

 

[speccy]

I can't see how this benefits consumers much if at all, there is limited appeal for business (which is Microsoft's target), but I think HP's approach is fine for this. What x86 apps would one run on their phone anyway? x86 apps generally by their very nature are designed for the desktop. A bit of an oversimplification I realise, but having this when Win10 was released may have been useful, but not having it for another year or more... it'll be pretty much irrelevant by the time it's ready, and the next big thing will hopefully be on it's way by then. That's the wave that Microsoft needs to be on. This is of course my own opinion based on very little actual knowledge or experience, so for those cleverer than me, don't be too hard on me :smile:

 

[Rosebank]

Autocad or Photoshop under emulation lol

 

[BackToTheFuture]

Eltechs seems to have had similar technology for a few years (https://eltechs.com/product/eltechs-engine/).

I don't think they provide an emulator, but a middleware to wrap API calls. That works for game because they mostly call standard C and OpenGL/DirectX functions. Then recompile the code with this middleware for mobile, sort of like the UWP bridge to port iOS code. They do not translate x86 binary code to ARM binary code, that's insane.

x86s aren't what they used to be Instruction set is CISC (with some signal processing additions) but maybe internals of modern x86 cores are not too far from RISC cores.

I think it's the other way, RISC CPUs are getting more complex.

 

[xandros9]

Autocad or Photoshop under emulation lol

 

[mkKozak]

There are hybrid x86-ARM CPUs.
But the problem is not in making a technology, but making money out of it.

I can't find links to them, but I remember AMDs project "Skybridge" that is dead now and I've seen some more projects, but can't remember the names.

 

[Rosebank]

I think if the development went with continuum then it could possibly be more of a possibility, phone screen off, 1 file running under emulation, keeping the phone temperature down,power supply and of course if they manage to solve this emulation then a full screen could be used, notepad for example would not interest me but paint.exe would, some other programs like the chess program I mentioned I could use, something I just though of, perhaps the dock itself could be a dedicated emulator or contain x86 instruction capability combined with the phone innards ??
edit>> The more I spend time thinking about this the more I think it might be a silly idea, I will also contradict everything I wrote above, I think that unless the phone can run the x86 somehow standalone,? then its a waste of time, what would WOW us is this feature (if it worked well enough)If you need the dock and the big screen then chances are you are at home or the office, where you have your laptop or PC there anyway, we all want BANG for our BUCK and having a powerful phone sized device would be amazing running x86 within reason, sometimes you don't want to carry your laptop around but you always have your phone on your person (well I do anyway) if I could run some x86 files I would be happy and also understand that AutoCAD or the like would likely never ever run on a phone, that's obvious, however if a powerful enough device could run x86 and was no bigger that a Galaxy note sized device with W10M I would be seriously interested. I like windows10 Mobile and its an exciting future ahead.

 

[BackToTheFuture]

There are hybrid x86-ARM CPUs.
But the problem is not in making a technology, but making money out of it.

I can't find links to them, but I remember AMDs project "Skybridge" that is dead now and I've seen some more projects, but can't remember the names.

It was hot topic back in 2014 I think, both AMD & VIA announced their hybrid CPU projects, seem abandoned now. There are a few problems with this approach:
- The CPU die would be rather big.
- Software (specifically OS) must be able to handle two ISAs.
So then, why not use low-powered x86 CPU like Atom? It certainly draws more power than ARM, but its usage can be restricted to big phones with big batteries and avoid all the headache?

 

[a5cent]

^ Exactly what I think. The whole idea of emulating x86 on ARM makes little sense, because there are just simpler/more efficient ways to solve that problem. Either MJF is wrong, or (more likely) we're missing some important part of the puzzle. I just can't imagine what that might be.

 

[EspHack]

I'm all for big phones, I've watched an anime where in a not-so-distant futuristic setting everyone just carries around a 7-8" tablet-phone that's essentially the end all of general computing, I think that's the next step until HoloLens gets perfected

they just have so many pros, devices in that size have amazing battery life, specially in heavy use, they multitask like a boss for such a compact thing

here's my almost-dailydriver asus vivotab 8 https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtnMR9kRrYq05uRV6YQNJDTyYIumEA

only things it needs to replace my phone: real cameras, gsm modem, wordflow keyboard(seriously? microsoft?) and if we can be picky, glance and ddtw

 

[Rosebank]

Sorry but for me that too big as a daily driver, its a tablet, won't fit in my trouser pocket like my phone does without looking obvious,I also have my phone protected inside a sleeve, the size increase probably means more power and productivity but just too big to carry around all day, it might fit in a jacket pocket but then you must carry a jacket around on days you might not want to.

 

[EspHack]

Sorry but for me that too big as a daily driver, its a tablet, won't fit in my trouser pocket like my phone does without looking obvious,I also have my phone protected inside a sleeve, the size increase probably means more power and productivity but just too big to carry around all day, it might fit in a jacket pocket but then you must carry a jacket around on days you might not want to.

nobody has detected my ridiculous "phone" yet, they just get the WTF look when I pull it out

honestly what bothers me the most is also having to carry my phone for the wifi hotspot, that means losing both front pockets

 

[Rosebank]

This is going to sound quite extreme here, and waaaay off topic, worth sharing though, I would be careful having the phone in your front pocket with the wifi and cellular data being used next to your private parts, No joke, my old boss lost both his nuts and he thinks it was because he had a phone in each pocket, I don't normally over react to these type of radiation threats but his case convinced me otherwise. I keep data off always until I need it and well clear of my privates,