01-09-2017 12:26 PM
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  1. bucfan11's Avatar
    Hey guys,
    I switched to android about 6 months ago after I gave up on W10M. I loved W8.1M and really liked W10M but it just was/is too unstable. I would love to return to the Windows world but I think that W10M is not going to get any real updates as MS will make all mobile devices full blown Windows 10 in the next year or so. I just purchased a Nuvision 8" Windows 10 Tablet which blows me away. I now believe that is the way to go for mobile. Do you guys think W10M will be replaced by ARM?
    12-27-2016 08:14 PM
  2. xandros9's Avatar
    Not in the near future I'd say.

    While capable, W10 on ARM has some major and minor issues to surmount before it can really go toe-to-toe in the mobile field.
    I would think that the next couple years would be about getting it 10 up and running well on tablets and laptops. And then we can start thinking about a mobile flagship. But that's my prediction.

    Even then, I think W10M will continue to exist since we'll always need lower-cost devices and W10 on ARM is not going to work on that price point for a while after it launches on mobile, assuming it does.
    12-27-2016 11:07 PM
  3. milkyway's Avatar
    I think W10 on ARM is the future and the Surface Mobile ("Phone") will run it and not W10M. All future first party hardware from MS will probably run it and will be high end. That's why they killed Lumia. They want to get as far away from this brand as possible and do not want to be associated with low end hardware.
    But yeah, like xandros9 said, it will take a while and not every phone (or mini mobile PC) can have such high end specs to run it and so W10M will stay for a while
    12-28-2016 12:58 AM
  4. EspHack's Avatar
    Not in the near future I'd say.

    While capable, W10 on ARM has some major and minor issues to surmount before it can really go toe-to-toe in the mobile field.
    I would think that the next couple years would be about getting it 10 up and running well on tablets and laptops. And then we can start thinking about a mobile flagship. But that's my prediction.

    Even then, I think W10M will continue to exist since we'll always need lower-cost devices and W10 on ARM is not going to work on that price point for a while after it launches on mobile, assuming it does.
    well yes lower cost products, something microsoft doesn't want to do, I don't think they would want to make a separate OS(w10m) just for oems to make cheap devices that will simply look like win RT vs full win all over again

    aaand, 8" atom tablets can be found for 40-60$ same as lumia 640-830
    12-28-2016 01:30 AM
  5. kaktus1389's Avatar
    I think it would be kind of silly to think they are going to put full*Windows 10 on a small phone screen, in my opinion it is more likely that*Windows 10 on*ARM is the future of Continuum.*If they were just to put the full Windows 10 on a phone, then there would be no point in updating*Windows 10 Mobile*and they are doing that*at this very moment.
    12-28-2016 11:03 AM
  6. faisalbaba's Avatar
    I think we should wait for Microsoft what's future of windows mobile 10.there are lot same thing wm10 that are available in w10,store,Cortana,setting page,edge

    Sent from mTalk
    Last edited by faisalbaba; 12-28-2016 at 12:41 PM.
    12-28-2016 11:09 AM
  7. Krystianpants's Avatar
    People are really confused about what "full windows" is.

    Windows 10 on desktop = Windows 10 + windows 7 mixed in together.
    Windows 10 = UWP stripped of win32 and executable support.

    Anything else is just a shell. So full windows 10 is still without win32 support from a technical stand point.

    The ultimate goal for MS is to remove that win32 support. And It will by making UWP better, promoting new hardware initiatives that take advantage of UWP and working with software partners to use this new hardware. A good example is surface studio with sketchable. The dial has a lot more support on the UWP version than adobe on win32. Of course adobe is already showing signs of moving things over.

    Windows 10 is also not finished but will look the same across all devices depending on how it's being used. Continuum will look like windows 10 desktop, because it will be. Of course in the meantime they need emulation while things move over. If it's successful companies will prefer to port their code over for efficiency and performance. Part of the problem is that some newer companies like sketchable can jump in with a better performing piece of software that does the same stuff while the users using the emulated version of something will just move over to the full blown UWP. It's bound to happen. There are companies who are likely working on jumping in on this new territory and creating dinosaurs of those companies that don't move their code over. Many blockbuster's will be created if companies don't adopt. Ms is not backing down and it will use hardware and innovation to drive windows 10 UWP.
    12-28-2016 11:36 AM
  8. Marc Guillet's Avatar
    I don't understand your question. Most SOC mobile processors are ARM architecture based. Windows mobile runs on ARM. Intel, AMD processors are x86 based. They can run full Windows legacy program. Desktop applications. Chrome and apple use ARM based processors for the most part.
    unmorphed likes this.
    12-28-2016 06:37 PM
  9. Marc Guillet's Avatar
    Your nuvision 8 runs Windows on and intel x86-64 atom processor. I have a dell tablet. The operating system is Windows with the metro interface up front. Under the hood it a pc for the most part. Windows Mobile is not the same thing. Perhaps in the future they will merge into one that can run legacy pc application on all hardware.
    12-28-2016 06:45 PM
  10. grahamf's Avatar
    Well...

    Microsoft has announced that they are working on a Win32-on-ARM emulation environment.
    Continuum is an attempt to allow Mobile devices be used as a desktop.

    I think full Windows on phones is literally an eventuality, but it won't be right away.
    Three tasks have to be completed:
    1. Weaning programs off of depending on traditional Win32 apis and the current windowing environment (necessary for them to run on tiny screens)
    2. Having a fully fledged Windows 10 OS running on arm, including some form of legacy app support (necessary for the OS to be useful)
    3. Building all mobile-required features into the OS, while further optimizing it so it runs efficiently (necessary for the phones to be usable as phones)

    All three of these tasks CAN be accomplished and progress IS being made to do so. I have full faith that within five years (or less) 90% of us can literally get by with only owning a Windows phone and remote screens/docks.
    12-29-2016 12:36 AM
  11. Aamir Mustafa's Avatar
    ARM is the future of Windows
    12-29-2016 07:50 AM
  12. techiez's Avatar
    Hey guys,
    I switched to android about 6 months ago after I gave up on W10M. I loved W8.1M and really liked W10M but it just was/is too unstable. I would love to return to the Windows world but I think that W10M is not going to get any real updates as MS will make all mobile devices full blown Windows 10 in the next year or so. I just purchased a Nuvision 8" Windows 10 Tablet which blows me away. I now believe that is the way to go for mobile. Do you guys think W10M will be replaced by ARM?
    in word "Yes".

    They have repeatedly mentioned that they hv lost the mobile race and have no interest in keeping W10M alive. they r just dragging it along.
    bucfan11 likes this.
    12-29-2016 08:38 AM
  13. unmorphed's Avatar
    I don't understand.

    One is an OS. The other is a processor architecture.
    12-29-2016 09:19 AM
  14. DavidinCT's Avatar
    If they want to really have a chance here, they need to find a way to support Win32 on a phone. The limits that corporate users applications that they use.

    If Windows 10 mobile wants to have a solid chance to succeed, as it's not doing it with Apps in the store, then they have to fall back to what makes Windows so great. Even with a x86 version of Windows 10, I can run SOME apps from Windows 95 on it, and they do run for the most part.

    The business world for the MOST part runs off x86 programs and a lot of them are custom that can not be re-created for cheap.

    I don't understand.

    One is an OS. The other is a processor architecture.
    With a different processer architecture the OS needs to be compiled for that type of CPU. In this case, Windows 10 IS NOT Windows 10. With an ARM CPU, We are talking Windows RT and we know how well that did, many applications had issues running on it and performance was not there, although performance will change the apps that didn't run are still not going to run.
    12-29-2016 09:30 AM
  15. Cruncher04's Avatar
    People are really confused about what "full windows" is.

    Windows 10 on desktop = Windows 10 + windows 7 mixed in together.
    Windows 10 = UWP stripped of win32 and executable support.
    I think you make it even more confusing.

    There are 2 versions of Windows 10 that is "Windows 10" and "Windows 10 mobile". While "Windows 10" contains the so called desktop environment, which consist of the Win32 subsystem, .Net/CLI and other runtime support, Network services, Scripting services etc. , "Windows 10 mobile" is stripped down significantly.
    Apparently you can compile both Windows versions for either ARMv7, ARMv8, x86 or x64. If you look at available devices however we only have:
    Windows 10 mobile for ARMv7 and Window 10 for x86 and x64.
    With Windows 8 we also had Windows 8 for ARMv7, which was known under the name "Windows RT".

    In the future we will also have Windows 10 compiled for ARMv8, as Microsoft recently announced.
    Currently there is no indication that Windows 10 mobile will be available for ARMv8 nor that Windows 10 mobile will get the missing runtime support. Even if Windows Mobile would get the x86 emulation, which was announced in the context of Windows 10 for ARM, it would be of no use, because the runtime support for Win32 and .Net/CLI is just not available in Windows 10 mobile.
    01-01-2017 04:36 AM
  16. bucfan11's Avatar
    I should have been more specific in my original post. MS has put full blown Windows 10 on a ARM device (there is a video out.) My question was if I can get full blown Windows 10 on my ARM powered device, why would I choose W10M? I think most people would not, which MS knows too. I think Intel messed up discontinuing the ATOM processor as it was getting powerful enough to run Windows 10. My 8" NuVision (which was a $50 tablet) runs very good on x86 Windows 10. If it had phone/GPS capability it could almost replace a phone.
    01-01-2017 05:01 PM
  17. bucfan11's Avatar
    in word "Yes".

    They have repeatedly mentioned that they hv lost the mobile race and have no interest in keeping W10M alive. they r just dragging it along.
    I fully agree! W8.1M was the best mobile OS in the world. It was very stable, useful and trouble free yet it did nothing to make gains on iOS or Android. MS has to do something different and W10 on your mobile device is it.. One mobile device for all of your computing needs, just some wireless monitors and keyboards at home and work and you're set.
    01-01-2017 05:46 PM
  18. a5cent's Avatar
    People are really confused about what "full windows" is.

    Windows 10 on desktop = Windows 10 + windows 7 mixed in together.
    Windows 10 = UWP stripped of win32 and executable support.
    Completely disagree. First of all "full Windows" is not even really a thing. Nobody at MS uses that term. It is used nowhere except on consumer sites like this, due to the unnecessary confusion caused by some technically challenged people claiming W10 and W10M are the same thing. Because some insist that W10 and W10M are synonyms, we now need an additional term to refer specifically to the OS that supports the Win32 desktop environment. Hence "full Windows".

    Second, there is no edition of Windows called "Windows 10 on desktop". The SKU for the desktop is called "Windows 10". Period. So says MS. It's also incorrect to think of W10 as: "W10 and W7 mixed together". At least it's no more so than W7 was W7 and Vista mixed together. What you think IS Windows 10 (the OS with UWP but without Win32) is almost everything but Windows 10. There are in fact multiple versions of Windows that ship without Win32, for example W10M, W10 IoT and Holographic. Windows 10 (without any suffix) is exactly the version that ships with Win32.

    It looks like you are trying to equate Windows 10 with the UWP. That just doesn't make sense. The later is an SDK and a run-time environment for use by developers. Windows 10 is a product that includes the UWP as one of its many components
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-02-2017 at 09:21 AM. Reason: formatting
    01-01-2017 06:47 PM
  19. a5cent's Avatar
    No. W10M will never be replaced by W10 (on ARM or otherwise). Very few people want to administer a computing device in the way Windows requires. The administrative overhead, malware, and complicated file system, etc. are things most people just don't want, but W10 on ARM will bring all of that baggage along for the ride. Avoiding that is one of the main reasons why MS built WinRT (edit) and the UWP (/edit) in the first place! Those reasons are just as valid now as they were then.

    Ultimately, W10M is one of MS' best bets for getting back into he consumer market. If MS' removes W10M from their portfolio, it means they have given up on the UWP and on consumers (XBox would likely also be sold off at that point). That's why W10M will stick around, for now. W10 on ARM is not the future of Windows. It's only purpose is to give us access to the past (Win32 software) on modern/affordable mobile devices.
    Last edited by a5cent; 01-28-2017 at 10:31 PM. Reason: see edit
    libra89, milkyway and Player Piano like this.
    01-01-2017 07:06 PM
  20. bucfan11's Avatar
    No. W10M will never be replaced by W10 (on ARM or otherwise). Very few people want to administer a computing device in the way Windows requires. The administrative overhead, malware, and complicated file system, etc. are things most people just don't want, but W10 on ARM will bring all of that baggage along for the ride. Avoiding that is one of the main reasons why MS built WinRT and W10M in the first place! Those reasons are just as valid now as they were then.

    Ultimately, W10M is MS' only way back into the consumer market. If MS' removes it from their portfolio, it means they have given up on consumers entirely (xbox would likely also be sold off at that point). That's why W10M will stick around, for now. W10 on ARM is not the future of Windows. It's only purpose is to give us access to the past (Win32 software) on modern/affordable mobile devices.
    My question would be why would MS put W10 on ARM if it is not the future? Does not make any sense to me if they do not plan on doing anything with it.
    01-01-2017 08:01 PM
  21. Cruncher04's Avatar
    My question would be why would MS put W10 on ARM if it is not the future? Does not make any sense to me if they do not plan on doing anything with it.
    They will put it on Tablets/2-in-1 devices. They might put it on phablets too.
    I think in mid term Windows might replace Windows Mobile on phones too. And while i see the administrative overhead a5cent is talking about, it is still beneficial for Microsoft to concentrate their efforts on a single SKU from phones to desktops. Of course for phone deployment they need to add the phone UI to Windows.
    a5cent likes this.
    01-02-2017 07:31 AM
  22. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Windows 10 and Windows 10 mobile are mostly the same thing. Of course, there is a segregation of features depending on the form factor in which each variant runs. Continuum breaks that segregation mixing desktop and mobile features in one device, but until now Continuum is severely limited and closer to the mobile side. For the "Creators" update Microsoft is improving the capabilities of Continuum including a more desktop like Shell. The x86 emulation on ARM adds even more possibilities.

    However, the task of combining desktop features and mobile features in a converged device, like the Surface Phone, requires compromises and solving a lot of problems. I think solution could be to define profiles of operation:
    1)A mobile profile that can only run UWP apps. It would provide great battery life, performance, security and low maintenance. Most people should be fine with this profile, both on PCs and Phones.
    2)A mixed profile, that can run a selection of Win32 apps from the store, with security and performance constraints.
    3)A desktop profile, that can run win32 apps without limitations.

    The owner of the device could enable/disable the more advanced profiles when needed, both on PCs and Phones (with the hardware requirements to run Win32 on Continuum).
    01-02-2017 09:31 AM
  23. doghouseriley's Avatar
    I think it's just funny that at the official Microsoft store they refer to all windows mobile devices as "Windows Phone" devices.
    01-02-2017 10:06 AM
  24. greedo_greedy's Avatar
    Don't think it will be replaced. Windows 10 on a phone still needs a "mobile interface" after all.

    It's difficult to imagine controlling Full Windows 10 on a 6" device.

    My guess is it will be merged, W10M will still be utilized when on the go, but when it is docked in continuum mode then we get Full Windows 10.

    The problem though is storage space. So the next mobile device will at the very least sport a 64gb internal storage.
    01-02-2017 10:44 AM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    Don't think it will be replaced. Windows 10 on a phone still needs a "mobile interface" after all.

    It's difficult to imagine controlling Full Windows 10 on a 6" device.

    My guess is it will be merged, W10M will still be utilized when on the go, but when it is docked in continuum mode then we get Full Windows 10.

    The problem though is storage space. So the next mobile device will at the very least sport a 64gb internal storage.
    MS can easily bring the mobile interface from W10M over to W10 (if it isn't already there). You do NOT need a whole new OS just for the user interface. Bring over all the apps that are still unique to W10M, like the dialer, and you're already set.

    On the 6" device you'd only ever see the same UI that we already have on W10M. Nobody is talking about interacting with the Windows desktop on such a small display. The desktop would only be available when hooked up to a larger monitor.
    libra89 likes this.
    01-02-2017 10:50 AM
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