02-20-2017 01:05 PM
44 12
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  1. HM84's Avatar
    Personally my dream is that all computing devices i own will have thunderbolt, so that one monitor setup can accept any device and be ready to go in a second. I want that, and for me it would mean that as i walk past my desk i can plug in my phone and hammer out an email in a full Windows environment, with synced files at the ready.

    Backing up your iPad to your Windows phone using iTunes. Ok, that last one was a joke. :)
    You reminded me of a promotional video done by MS showing their vision of the future. It had a scene where the user would swipe something on a laptop screen, and it would show on the table, allowing for a projection to everyone on the table. Ergonomic issues aside, it suggests that your hub-at-home idea is something that someone has in the backburner over at Redmond, with or without thunderbolt.

    On the iTunes front, I discovered that unlike me, lots of people here make it a habit of having multiple phones, often with different OS. So it might be possible that you have your WoA device handy when you think of wanting to work on say, iTunes Remote, or SmartSwitch.

    Maybe my inexperience in iOS and Samsung's ecosystem are failing me in my explanation, but you're onto something here. I mean MS develop apps for iOS and Android, we might as well benefit from having things work the other way around.

    I wonder how this affects using Google services. Since Google Maps is a chore and Youtube is too basic to use on Edge, third party apps are the way to go. Would WoA supersede them, and the need for them in the first place?
    02-05-2017 10:28 AM
  2. terdferguson3's Avatar
    Id probably complete complex computing tasks while on the can.
    mountainman likes this.
    02-05-2017 11:41 AM
  3. Sedp23's Avatar
    Nothing different honestly the app problem is still going to be there

    Sent from Idol 4s
    02-07-2017 08:18 PM
  4. HM84's Avatar
    Nothing different honestly the app problem is still going to be there

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Is that really the case? Aside from games, most apps are just ways to get to what's on a website. I would rather have an official wikipedia app similar to the ones on iOS and Android. But the website is still there.

    Treating a mobile as a mobile limits its functionality. I think that was the entire point of this thread. Apps are slowly being replaced by bots or other methods, and might soon be a thing of the past. All the hip kids who complained about not having apps will soon complain about apps which are... "sooooooo totally last iPhone". Maybe I'm more "manual-gearbox" than most other users, but I prefer to see as much of the insides as I can. Apps are are nice to have when they are there but they shouldn't be the only dimension we are looking at. If we can have functionality that sidesteps or even leapfrogs our inherent fault, then all the better.
    02-08-2017 12:19 AM
  5. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Nothing different honestly the app problem is still going to be there

    Sent from Idol 4s
    How so? You'd have all the desktop apps running in addition to non-desktop apps.
    02-08-2017 12:33 AM
  6. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    So loosely summarizing it seems that people hope to get thin, light, affordable tablets out of it, or have a phone that can be a full (but maybe slow) PC when docked. So great, assuming we can have either, what would people do differently? Just do the same things as before, but saving money on an extra device?
    Well, one somewhat esoteric example I can give is when I've done a job and get asked to revise it but am away from my desktop computer. I work on professional audio for TV mostly, and not long ago I had several commercials that were done where changes might have been requested. So, rather than lug a large laptop with me I could instead have brought a phone and borrow a monitor and keyboard to do changes (depending on what type they are of course).

    Now, the obvious issue is computation power, but I'm still able to use my 5-6 year old quad core computer for this (though I need a new one), so running it on a brand new Snapdragon 835 shouldn't be tremendously slower. In addition, I would easily make up the time I lose using a slower device by not having to go back home to a more powerful one. So for the job I mentioned I was roughly 1 hr away from home using public transit, and maybe around 20-25 minutes in a cab. So even if rendering final files took 10x longer I'd still save time and money with a device that ran W10 on ARM.

    So I for one am excited about the prospect of being able to do this.
    Joe920 and Axeelant like this.
    02-08-2017 12:40 AM
  7. Sedp23's Avatar
    How so? You'd have all the desktop apps running in addition to non-desktop apps.
    The Facebook apps would still be missing features, no Snapchat, no Chase quick pay , no uber drives app. Windows 10 on arm solves none of those problems and those are big apps

    Sent from Idol 4s
    02-08-2017 05:02 AM
  8. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    You assume it solves nothing. But first of all Windows on ARM would make anyone who is on the fence and who doesn't really care about those apps but cares about other solutions reconsider. Secondly, anyone who does work on PCs that demands sufficiently little CPU power and who is considering upgrading to a new desktop or laptop would consider getting Win10ARM instead, because they'd be mobile. Even if they get an iPhone it would still make sense to reconsider buying a laptop depending on how they work and on just what the ARM device looks like. Thirdly, don't underestimate the tremendous amount of Windows users out there. It's a huge amount of users. Even a fraction of them considering an ARM device will be a large group of people.

    Lastly, taking that into account I would then argue that rather than Facebook coding poorly for Mobile, well for iOS and Android, one presumes separately, they could code once for mobile and adapt for UWP, using Xamarin for example. That way they'd automatically increase the app user base tremendously with relatively little 'cost'. The reason they'd then be encouraged to do so is because despite you complaining about those apps there will be many others who won't and who will get the W10ARM device for other reasons, and they are now a realistic target along with everyone on Windows 10, using UWP. In other words this all comes down partially to what amount of users one can expect to see and how developers will react to it, in addition to how we view our devices. W10ARM will allow people to view their phones less and less as pure phones. Most of what we already do is NOT using the phone as a phone, but using it as a small form-factor always-connected computer.

    So the "app-gap" will literally shrink by a very large amount. And the "app problem" is something I think will be alleviated to a significant degree, not because of the technology itself, but because of what I think is the inevitable adoption of it.
    Axeelant and TgeekB like this.
    02-08-2017 12:50 PM
  9. Sedp23's Avatar
    You assume it solves nothing. But first of all Windows on ARM would make anyone who is on the fence and who doesn't really care about those apps but cares about other solutions reconsider. Secondly, anyone who does work on PCs that demands sufficiently little CPU power and who is considering upgrading to a new desktop or laptop would consider getting Win10ARM instead, because they'd be mobile. Even if they get an iPhone it would still make sense to reconsider buying a laptop depending on how they work and on just what the ARM device looks like. Thirdly, don't underestimate the tremendous amount of Windows users out there. It's a huge amount of users. Even a fraction of them considering an ARM device will be a large group of people.

    Lastly, taking that into account I would then argue that rather than Facebook coding poorly for Mobile, well for iOS and Android, one presumes separately, they could code once for mobile and adapt for UWP, using Xamarin for example. That way they'd automatically increase the app user base tremendously with relatively little 'cost'. The reason they'd then be encouraged to do so is because despite you complaining about those apps there will be many others who won't and who will get the W10ARM device for other reasons, and they are now a realistic target along with everyone on Windows 10, using UWP. In other words this all comes down partially to what amount of users one can expect to see and how developers will react to it, in addition to how we view our devices. W10ARM will allow people to view their phones less and less as pure phones. Most of what we already do is NOT using the phone as a phone, but using it as a small form-factor always-connected computer.

    So the "app-gap" will literally shrink by a very large amount. And the "app problem" is something I think will be alleviated to a significant degree, not because of the technology itself, but because of what I think is the inevitable adoption of it.
    The app gap problem won't be going away because of windows 10 on arm. They said the same thing with Windows phone 8, 8.1 and Windows 10 Mobile. Most users that would even make a big deal about it wouldn't be a large amount of users. Right now and at least for the new few years it's going to be a app driven Mobile world. Windows 10 on arm is great but the average consumer won't care if they can't get Snapchat and major apps our outdated

    Sent from Idol 4s
    xandros9, libra89 and aximtreo like this.
    02-08-2017 11:11 PM
  10. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    The app gap problem won't be going away because of windows 10 on arm. They said the same thing with Windows phone 8, 8.1 and Windows 10 Mobile. Most users that would even make a big deal about it wouldn't be a large amount of users. Right now and at least for the new few years it's going to be a app driven Mobile world. Windows 10 on arm is great but the average consumer won't care if they can't get Snapchat and major apps our outdated

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Clearly you missed the points I was making.
    02-09-2017 12:41 PM
  11. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Honestly, don't even know... definitely wouldn't install any Torrent client.

    Probably, will do the same, as now
    02-10-2017 08:54 AM
  12. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I can not see myself wanting to run x86 programs on a 5 inch phone. Not to mention I have a very high doubt those programs will run in a efficient way. I imagine my hand starting to melt from the heat.
    Agreed with this. Although I NEED to use x86 apps day to day(non-store apps) on a 5 or 6" display most of them will be almost unusable Even a touch screen might be harder to use some of them (a mouse and keyboard would be much quicker than a touch screen).

    X86 apps have their place and not feeling like a mobile device is their place.
    libra89 likes this.
    02-10-2017 09:06 AM
  13. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Agreed with this. Although I NEED to use x86 apps day to day(non-store apps) on a 5 or 6" display most of them will be almost unusable Even a touch screen might be harder to use some of them (a mouse and keyboard would be much quicker than a touch screen).

    X86 apps have their place and not feeling like a mobile device is their place.
    But again, I think people have to put this in context with other technology from MS in order for it to make more sense:

    Suppose you're out and about with your Windows-on-ARM device and you need to correct some work you've done in software that you normally use on your desktop or laptop. The point here isn't only that you can run this on your "tiny" screen, it is that with Continuum and "reverse-Continuum" you'll be able to hook up your mobile to a display and keyboard. For me there will be many cases where I'll be close to just that; basic input devices and a monitor.

    So the experience will be that of a desktop/laptop device because of those connected peripherals, but you're running the software off of something that fits in your pocket and doubles as your "smartphone".

    That's what I think the long-term game is here. It isn't "Oh, I'd love to do Photoshop, CAD/CAM, etc on my 5-inch-screen smartphone", it's "Now I can bring my workstation with me in my pocket, conveniently, and access my content via the cloud, and work wherever I want, especially if there's a dumb terminal nearby".....

    See what I'm getting at?
    02-10-2017 01:08 PM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    The benefits of Windows 10 on ARM are going to be seen mostly in thinner, lighter longer lasting 2 in 1's, on a phone there are hardly any. The question is, if the point is to be more "mobile" why would you want a solution that only works in a static environment that has a keyboard and mouse? It may be good for those rare emergencies when nothing else is available but the advantage will be had from having a truly mobile Windows device.

    The moment your solution requires you to be dependent on anything else it becomes less efficient than a solution that has all components present. Which is the better solution for someone waiting in an airport lounge; having to hunt for a desk with a keyboard and mouse or pulling out your ultra thin 2 in 1 with all your data present and getting to work right away?
    02-10-2017 02:13 PM
  15. Joe920's Avatar
    Which is the better solution for someone waiting in an airport lounge; having to hunt for a desk with a keyboard and mouse or pulling out your ultra thin 2 in 1 with all your data present and getting to work right away?
    Agreed with most of this. Thin and light latops/convertibles/tablets would benefit the most.

    As for the airport scenario, if I'd have an ARM W10 phone, I'd love to be able to pull a low-cost AR headset out of my bag and connecting it wirelessly to the headset. That would give me a huge private viewing area, for either work or let's say catching up on Game of Thrones.

    Benefits: you have the phone anyway, so the added cost for AR goggles might be OK (they would not need to include a CPU like the Hololens). You get portability because instead of a bringing a full laptop, the only extra thing you bring is a pair of goggles.

    Best part: the acronym will be Windows On ARM Holographic, or WOAH!
    libra89 likes this.
    02-10-2017 04:08 PM
  16. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    The benefits of Windows 10 on ARM are going to be seen mostly in thinner, lighter longer lasting 2 in 1's, on a phone there are hardly any. The question is, if the point is to be more "mobile" why would you want a solution that only works in a static environment that has a keyboard and mouse?
    That's not what I said, and that wouldn't be the case. I've already given an example where I would be looking at a benefit rather than anything else, even without peripherals.

    It may be good for those rare emergencies when nothing else is available but the advantage will be had from having a truly mobile Windows device.

    The moment your solution requires you to be dependent on anything else it becomes less efficient than a solution that has all components present. Which is the better solution for someone waiting in an airport lounge; having to hunt for a desk with a keyboard and mouse or pulling out your ultra thin 2 in 1 with all your data present and getting to work right away?
    But it's not limited to those two options though. W10ARM allows a user to access software;

    - using a phone with a sufficient CPU
    - using a phone with a sufficient CPU + dumb terminal (keyboard/mouse)

    Now, already we can see something that mimics real-life currently. People currently use internet terminals at airports,so since that's already there, at least conceptually it'd be an improvement, right? Rather than me using the supplied CPU of the airport I could use my phone and their peripherals. But in addition to that;

    - using a phone with a sufficient CPU + wireless keyboard + VR gear
    - using a phone with a sufficient CPU + dumb laptop (i.e. what the X3 does now, but with full Windows)

    Now, you ask me I would rather get the phone with a W10ARM capable CPU and then ADD any of the above as needed. If I buy this ultra-portable 2-in-1 I'm still stuck with a phone as well. At least now i have the option of choosing what to bring according to my expectations.

    And speaking of that, going back to my previous example, that last time I brought my laptop with me it was a Saturday where I expected to possibly do some work while at the same time wanting to play poker at my friends place. In this case it would have been far better for me to just bring a phone and then be able to borrow my friends peripherals to do the job. The HP X3-type 'dumb' laptop peripheral would be a good choice simply because it'd be lighter and cheaper with fewer components in it (or with a better screen) AND because I could leave it behind if I wanted to.

    Again one can ask a converse question; Why would I not want that flexibility?
    TgeekB likes this.
    02-10-2017 07:10 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    The benefits of Windows 10 on ARM are going to be seen mostly in thinner, lighter longer lasting 2 in 1's, on a phone there are hardly any. The question is, if the point is to be more "mobile" why would you want a solution that only works in a static environment that has a keyboard and mouse? It may be good for those rare emergencies when nothing else is available but the advantage will be had from having a truly mobile Windows device.

    The moment your solution requires you to be dependent on anything else it becomes less efficient than a solution that has all components present. Which is the better solution for someone waiting in an airport lounge; having to hunt for a desk with a keyboard and mouse or pulling out your ultra thin 2 in 1 with all your data present and getting to work right away?
    Think of the cost savings though and the ability to have dummy devices in a lot of places where you might not want to spend the money on a computer. I can see a great benefit to this rather than always having to carry a larger device everywhere.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    02-10-2017 08:28 PM
  18. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Think of the cost savings though and the ability to have dummy devices in a lot of places where you might not want to spend the money on a computer. I can see a great benefit to this rather than always having to carry a larger device everywhere.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    I can imagine a future where corporations choose to get employees one such phone and furnish them with either a dumb laptop and/or a dock at work, which should offer clear savings corporation-wide. If the alternative is getting one iPhone, one laptop and then having an iMac at your office workstation for example then clearly having one W10ARM phone and a dumb terminal is cheaper. Then keep it all on the cloud.
    02-10-2017 10:28 PM
  19. passin's Avatar
    I would use this device for mobile work.

    Since my company uses specific software, I would load that on it so I can hook up to a monitor and check things quickly. I usually have a Bluetooth keyboard I carry around with me so it all works out perfectly.

    We also use an internet based firewall and VPN, I would be able to install those on work devices and keep them more compliant with where I want security to be.

    Next I would get with our help desk system and see if they would design a mobile UWP for it so we could answer tickets from anywhere.

    Once wireless displays auto tether (I'm just assuming after a pair it will auto-tether like Bluetooth) you could use this in place of signing into a PC. Just walk up to the display you use for work and sit down, give the phone time to connect and start working. This would eat a lot of battery to be on though, same with win32 apps running so the battery in this thing would have to be out of this freaking world.

    Other than these more minor changes, which would still be plenty nice to do and help a lot in the long run, it would be the same. Light email and texting on the go. Calendar checks and passing time during the day with little things as I pretend to work.
    Joe920 likes this.
    02-20-2017 01:05 PM
44 12

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