02-11-2017 08:44 AM
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  1. Alyeldiin's Avatar
    Is it? And if not, which is probably true, why won't they realise it before it's too late?

    Isn't the reason Windows 10 Mobile is getting less popular by the minute the fact that it gets 0 Marketing? And why couldn't Microsoft release a device or two at least just to keep the forum alive until they release the supposedly epic-game-changer Surface Phone? Wouldn't that make more sense?
    Last edited by Alyeldiin; 02-03-2017 at 07:08 AM.
    02-02-2017 06:12 AM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    History:

    Sometime during the last two years, WCentral started reporting on MS' "retrenchment strategy", meaning MS was focusing their MOBILE efforts on the ENTERPRISE and abandoning consumers. The reporting implied MS was going to market W10M based smartphones to corporations. That's what most of us understood anyway. I know a few people in these forums who never really believed that, or at least felt it sounded fishy (including yours truly) but even if it was true, it was not true for very long. Rather than trying to market smartphones to corporations, as the reporting implied, MS gave up on smartphones entirely. If that wasn't always the plan, then it at least became the plan very early on in the "retrenchment phase".

    The present:

    There is no plan to popularize W10M smartphones with corporations. Period. Whether through OEMs or directly. Since there is no plan that involves smartphones, MS' smartphone plan isn't failing and there is also nothing for MS to realize. It's us that hasn't yet fully realized what is happening!

    And guess what? The surface "phone" won't be called a phone (edit: although it will have cellular functionality)! Even if it is phablet sized, it will not be marketed as a phone. However, whatever we end up calling the device, it will be a MOBILE device that is focused on the needs of the ENTERPRISE (that's probably the main raison d'être for W10oA). It will be quite some time yet before a pocketable surface device is introduced to the market, so it is far too early to tell whether or not that plan is failing.

    MS is done with smartphones. There will be no marketing for W10M and MS will not push OEMs to pick up the slack, but MS apparently won't stand in the way if some crazy OEM wants to give it a shot anyway.

    W10M will continue to exist as a lightweight (compared to full Windows) platform for running UWP apps. Whether a notable number of consumers ever again become interested in a W10M device depends on whether or not the UWP ever takes off.

    Wait and see...
  3. libra89's Avatar
    Is it? And if not, which is probably true, why won't they realise it before it's too late?

    Isn't the reason Windows 10 Mobile is getting less popular by the minute the fact that it gets 0 Marketing? And why couldn't Microsoft release a device or two at least just to keep the forum alive until they release the supposedly epic-game-changer Surface Phone? Wouldn't that make more sense?
    I think they might believe that it is pointless (at this time) so they want the OEMs to do it for them.
    Guytronic and Shamshi-Adad like this.
    02-02-2017 07:55 AM
  4. tgp's Avatar
    I think they might believe that it is pointless (at this time) so they want the OEMs to do it for them.
    Possibly, but if it pointless for Microsoft, then why should the OEMs do it?
    libra89, theefman, a5cent and 1 others like this.
    02-02-2017 08:19 AM
  5. aximtreo's Avatar
    If I thought MS had a business plan for mobile, I could probably give you an answer. I truly don't they have the foggeist idea what they are doing in mobile; sadly.
    libra89, Guytronic and xandros9 like this.
    02-02-2017 08:51 AM
  6. libra89's Avatar
    Possibly, but if it pointless for Microsoft, then why should the OEMs do it?
    I agree. Not sure really but we have seen good devices since the last Lumia was released.
    tgp and a5cent like this.
    02-02-2017 09:08 AM
  7. a5cent's Avatar
    History:

    Sometime during the last two years, WCentral started reporting on MS' "retrenchment strategy", meaning MS was focusing their MOBILE efforts on the ENTERPRISE and abandoning consumers. The reporting implied MS was going to market W10M based smartphones to corporations. That's what most of us understood anyway. I know a few people in these forums who never really believed that, or at least felt it sounded fishy (including yours truly) but even if it was true, it was not true for very long. Rather than trying to market smartphones to corporations, as the reporting implied, MS gave up on smartphones entirely. If that wasn't always the plan, then it at least became the plan very early on in the "retrenchment phase".

    The present:

    There is no plan to popularize W10M smartphones with corporations. Period. Whether through OEMs or directly. Since there is no plan that involves smartphones, MS' smartphone plan isn't failing and there is also nothing for MS to realize. It's us that hasn't yet fully realized what is happening!

    And guess what? The surface "phone" won't be called a phone (edit: although it will have cellular functionality)! Even if it is phablet sized, it will not be marketed as a phone. However, whatever we end up calling the device, it will be a MOBILE device that is focused on the needs of the ENTERPRISE (that's probably the main raison d'être for W10oA). It will be quite some time yet before a pocketable surface device is introduced to the market, so it is far too early to tell whether or not that plan is failing.

    MS is done with smartphones. There will be no marketing for W10M and MS will not push OEMs to pick up the slack, but MS apparently won't stand in the way if some crazy OEM wants to give it a shot anyway.

    W10M will continue to exist as a lightweight (compared to full Windows) platform for running UWP apps. Whether a notable number of consumers ever again become interested in a W10M device depends on whether or not the UWP ever takes off.

    Wait and see...
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-02-2017 at 04:34 PM. Reason: see edit
    Guytronic, libra89, TgeekB and 8 others like this.
    02-02-2017 09:12 AM
  8. sinime's Avatar
    I think the business side isn't doing well in certain area... in particular areas where companies want affordable phones... there have been a coupe of articles on companies switching away from WP because there are no good affordable options.
    libra89 likes this.
    02-02-2017 04:04 PM
  9. mtf1380's Avatar
    looks to me that Microsoft:

    1> is making Windows Mobile, somewhat universal, so it can be used on iOS and Android - letting Apple, Android and Windows OEMs fight the good fight for hardware, and maintaining the ability to provide the Software.

    and,

    2> hopes to introduce a high end Mobile game changer (Surface Mobile) that is a phone AND something "ELSE" like a phone AND Gaming Station; or, a phone AND High-end Camera/ Communications Hub/ Broadcaster; or, a phone AND folding mini-Tablet/ Personal Assistant (tethered to all your other gear). But, something BEYOND just mobile.
    Shamshi-Adad likes this.
    02-02-2017 04:26 PM
  10. Faisal Islam2's Avatar
    No its not working out at all! Microsoft just abandoning its own mobile platform by rebooting ! Heard that they are going to abandon windows 10 mobile for another reboot! Too much annoying behavior from Microsoft
    02-02-2017 09:48 PM
  11. Mark F24's Avatar
    I really don't mind the thought of a device that is actually a PC but it is mobile, in fact I embrace it but hope it isn't too big, like the 1520 or whatever it was. The 950 XL is about my limit to carry, so we'll see. The UWP idea seems good too. I think the full Windows on a mobile device will bring better networking tools also, like VPN, telnet/PuTTY, Samba, etc.

    That is something I have wanted in a portable device. Continuum is right along those lines, just extremely limited. I don't necessarily want a Surface device (of which I have none) but would still like the OS they are working toward. MS not manufacturing a device isn't a big deal to me as I seem to remember them as a software company.
    02-03-2017 06:05 AM
  12. Chemy JMHT's Avatar
    I think something big need to happen inside MS and in the Market to see more interest from MS in creating a good device, when teh purchased Nokia was weird, Nokia wasn't making the best marketing decisions, the smartphones didn't bring something outstanding beside the camera (which I think wasn't that amazing, I compared pictures from several devices at that time).

    I think it's easy to make WIN10M great again (no political implies here) just deciding it, but MS is not doing it they are putting more effort in Hololens than WIN10M from my point of view.
    scottakoons likes this.
    02-03-2017 06:59 AM
  13. Alyeldiin's Avatar
    I just find it frustrating that Microsoft would give up so easily on a part of their customers after promising us more, we're not even getting the minimum of what they promised. I mean, I paid money for my phone and now even if I want to sell it and switch I'll lose too much of what I paid. Had I known this was the case I'd have switched earlier. Even though I DIDN'T, and I still don't want to switch, but I see no reason in sticking to a platform (that is being left behind) or investing in it more than I already have. I just find it sad.
    scottakoons and Shamshi-Adad like this.
    02-03-2017 07:16 AM
  14. tgp's Avatar
    I just find it frustrating that Microsoft would give up so easily on a part of their customers after promising us more, we're not even getting the minimum of what they promised. I mean, I paid money for my phone and now even if I want to sell it and switch I'll lose too much of what I paid. Had I known this was the case I'd have switched earlier. Even though I DIDN'T, and I still don't want to switch, but I see no reason in sticking to a platform (that is being left behind) or investing in it more than I already have. I just find it sad.
    I'm not sure how much Microsoft actually "promised". I wonder if what they said, or meant, was blown out of proportion through journalism.

    And, you almost always lose money when buying and selling phones! Or, almost any other product for that matter. Yet, I do understand what you're saying in that the value has dropped dramatically. I usually buy phones at release and sell them 6 months to a year later. I am used to taking a hit, but it is the price I pay for using the latest and greatest.
    libra89 and a5cent like this.
    02-03-2017 07:30 AM
  15. techiez's Avatar
    Microsoft's so called business thing was may be valid about 2 yrs back, now they just have given up on mobile completely, consumer, enterprise, alpha beta gamma everything included.
    Most likely reason of killing Lumia line is probably they plan to kill W10M or just let it die naturally, so at least they dont get cursed the way when they rendered Lumia 800/900 and Surface RT / Lumiaa 2520 as obsolete in months.
    scottakoons and xandros9 like this.
    02-03-2017 08:53 AM
  16. OldMillXxX's Avatar
    Whatever happened to the plan of releasing three variants per year? Low/mid/high end devices?

    This constant retrenching is forcing developers away.
    Alyeldiin likes this.
    02-03-2017 09:57 AM
  17. libra89's Avatar
    Whatever happened to the plan of releasing three variants per year? Low/mid/high end devices?

    This constant retrenching is forcing developers away.
    It seems like they did but then they stopped. 950s = high end, 550 = low end, 650 = kind of mid range, but just turned 1 if I'm not mistaken.
    a5cent likes this.
    02-03-2017 10:55 AM
  18. Alyeldiin's Avatar
    I'm not sure how much Microsoft actually "promised". I wonder if what they said, or meant, was blown out of proportion through journalism.
    And, you almost always lose money when buying and selling phones! Or, almost any other product for that matter. Yet, I do understand what you're saying in that the value has dropped dramatically. I usually buy phones at release and sell them 6 months to a year later. I am used to taking a hit, but it is the price I pay for using the latest and greatest.
    3 Phones per year, Redstone 2 will be more focused on Mobile. "Microsoft is fully committed to W10M" - What's happening now is not what looks like full commitment to me. And sure, you lose money when you buy phones and sell them later. But for me, I upgrade every 1.5 to 3 years, so I don't usually sell my phones. And now if I switch I'll lose too much.

    Plus, really, a few months back switching to Andriod or iOS was never an option to me.
    02-03-2017 12:25 PM
  19. Alyeldiin's Avatar
    Whatever happened to the plan of releasing three variants per year? Low/mid/high end devices?

    This constant retrenching is forcing developers away.
    Exactly my point!
    02-03-2017 12:27 PM
  20. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    From Windows Central, at Is early 2018 too soon for a Surface phone? | Windows Central

    <Begin Paste>

    ...Despite the success of current Surface devices, unique high-end hardware alone is insufficient to make a Surface phone a winner. Unlike the Surface Pro, Book and Studio, a Surface "phone" running full Windows on ARM would be positioned as an ultramobile PC but will also have the challenge of needing to "be a smartphone."

    Though not a smartphone competing directly with rivals' smartphones, as a game changing "ultimate mobile device" positioned to redefine mobile, it will indirectly compete in that space and will need to do what smartphones do....

    <End Paste>

    What's not to understand? MS doesn't want to continue in the Lo, Mid, or Hi end Smartphones market. They want to do Win 10 on ARM Pocket PCs with Smartphone features added. Don't mistake that article to be solely about Surface Phones. It's what they want to do with mobile.

    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    Last edited by Shamshi-Adad; 02-03-2017 at 04:43 PM.
    TgeekB, techiez and a5cent like this.
    02-03-2017 04:04 PM
  21. petvas72's Avatar
    The problem is that Microsoft is struggling to find a way to be successful in the mobile market. I have to say that I am on my first day using a Windows Phone (a Lumia 950xl), but I am not sure if I can continue using it as my daily driver. The OS is good and integration with Windows 10 is really great, but the app situation is disappointing. Somehow I think Microsoft shouldn't give up on Windows Phone so early. While we all know that the future is based on Windows 10 cellular devices, Microsoft is taking a big risk here. By the time we get a Surface Phone Microsoft will be completely irrelevant im the mobile market.
    02-03-2017 04:14 PM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    The problem is that Microsoft is struggling to find a way to be successful in the mobile market. I have to say that I am on my first day using a Windows Phone (a Lumia 950xl), but I am not sure if I can continue using it as my daily driver. The OS is good and integration with Windows 10 is really great, but the app situation is disappointing. Somehow I think Microsoft shouldn't give up on Windows Phone so early. While we all know that the future is based on Windows 10 cellular devices, Microsoft is taking a big risk here. By the time we get a Surface Phone Microsoft will be completely irrelevant im the mobile market.
    What risk are they taking? They currently have 2% of the market or something like that. They are attempting to reinvent the market, which is what innovators do.
    I'm sorry you are finding Windows mobile is not meeting your needs. The app situation is not new and well publicised. It certainly meets core functionality though and the 950xl is a nice phone. Maybe give it a little more time. Best of luck to you.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    02-03-2017 05:28 PM
  23. petvas72's Avatar
    What risk are they taking? They currently have 2% of the market or something like that. They are attempting to reinvent the market, which is what innovators do.
    I'm sorry you are finding Windows mobile is not meeting your needs. The app situation is not new and well publicised. It certainly meets core functionality though and the 950xl is a nice phone. Maybe give it a little more time. Best of luck to you.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    Currently market share is something like 0,1%.

    Before buying a 950XL I knew of course where I was getting into. I also have an HTC 10 and when comparing the two, the HTC 10 is the winner here.
    The worst thing about the Lumia 950XL (apart from its sound), is the uncertain future of the platform.

    As far as the apps concern, if I decide to get rid of my HTC 10 and stay with the Lumia, I will be losing the following functionality:
    • Online banking for my bank (DKB Germany)
    • the ability to buy tickets for tram and busses here in Mannheim (no app available on Windows Mobile)
    • Google Trips. When travelling it is really great to have such an app
    • Great Exchange Server support. Just look at an Android app called "Nine". It is like desktop Outlook.
    • Google Maps. I know there are some alternatives on the Store, but none are so good.


    So, I am still thinking about what I will do..

    The mistake Microsoft is making is that they want to start over from scratch. They should try to strengthen the Windows Mobile platform, invest a lot of money and one day, when the Surface Phone is ready, the world will be ready for it too.
    Now, if Microsoft brings a Surface Phone to the market, nobody will notice (but the blog sites).
    Shamshi-Adad and Alyeldiin like this.
    02-04-2017 02:13 AM
  24. Alyeldiin's Avatar
    What risk are they taking? They currently have 2% of the market or something like that. They are attempting to reinvent the market, which is what innovators do.
    I'm sorry you are finding Windows mobile is not meeting your needs. The app situation is not new and well publicised. It certainly meets core functionality though and the 950xl is a nice phone. Maybe give it a little more time. Best of luck to you.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    I of course knew the situation before buying a Lumia 950. And although I had the chance to switch back then I didn't because I wanted to stay in hope of the platform getting better. And sure, Microsoft can try to reinvent the market all they want. I honestly believe all the Androids and iPhones out there have nothing new to offer to customer except minor UI improvements or new slight features. But at least, Microsoft could've maintained the W10M platform as it "was" until they're ready with their game changer mobile surface PC, is all I'm saying.
    TgeekB likes this.
    02-04-2017 06:32 AM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    Currently market share is something like 0,1%.

    Before buying a 950XL I knew of course where I was getting into. I also have an HTC 10 and when comparing the two, the HTC 10 is the winner here.
    The worst thing about the Lumia 950XL (apart from its sound), is the uncertain future of the platform.

    As far as the apps concern, if I decide to get rid of my HTC 10 and stay with the Lumia, I will be losing the following functionality:
    • Online banking for my bank (DKB Germany)
    • the ability to buy tickets for tram and busses here in Mannheim (no app available on Windows Mobile)
    • Google Trips. When travelling it is really great to have such an app
    • Great Exchange Server support. Just look at an Android app called "Nine". It is like desktop Outlook.
    • Google Maps. I know there are some alternatives on the Store, but none are so good.


    So, I am still thinking about what I will do..

    The mistake Microsoft is making is that they want to start over from scratch. They should try to strengthen the Windows Mobile platform, invest a lot of money and one day, when the Surface Phone is ready, the world will be ready for it too.
    Now, if Microsoft brings a Surface Phone to the market, nobody will notice (but the blog sites).
    You have brought up some good subjective points. You need to choose what works best for you and meets your needs.
    Doesn't DB have a mobile web site to purchase train tickets and look up arrival and departure times? I've been to Germany a couple of times (love it) and thought I had used it. My bank has an app but yours doesn't.
    I'm not worried about MS marketing the Surface phone when it comes out. They are a global company with millions of users. W10 is up to 25% on computers now so people will be used to the UI. Time will tell.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    libra89 likes this.
    02-04-2017 07:48 AM
  26. Shamshi-Adad's Avatar
    Currently market share is something like 0,1%.
    That's correct

    Before buying a 950XL I knew of course where I was getting into. I also have an HTC 10 and when comparing the two, the HTC 10 is the winner here.
    The worst thing about the Lumia 950XL (apart from its sound), is the uncertain future of the platform.
    The future of the platform IS NOT UNCERTAIN. MS has clearly been saying for a while now that they DON'T want to continue with Smartphones. They've repeatedly been saying they want to COMPETE with Smartphones indirectly with Pocket PCs running Windows 10 on ARM with Smartphone capabilities. WHAT'S UNCERTAIN?

    As far as the apps concern, if I decide to get rid of my HTC 10 and stay with the Lumia, I will be losing the following functionality:
    • Online banking for my bank (DKB Germany)
    • the ability to buy tickets for tram and busses here in Mannheim (no app available on Windows Mobile)
    • Google Trips. When travelling it is really great to have such an app
    • Great Exchange Server support. Just look at an Android app called "Nine". It is like desktop Outlook.
    • Google Maps. I know there are some alternatives on the Store, but none are so good.


    So, I am still thinking about what I will do..
    In the interim could you use banking and tram/busses websites? ON the others, your own recommended alternatives?

    The mistake Microsoft is making is that they want to start over from scratch. They should try to strengthen the Windows Mobile platform, invest a lot of money and one day, when the Surface Phone is ready, the world will be ready for it too.
    You call it "Starting from scratch". Others call it Evolving or Morphing. The thing is we're conscious of it; we're impacted by this "birthing process" AND IT HURTS, I'll admit.

    Now, if Microsoft brings a Surface Phone to the market, nobody will notice (but the blog sites).
    Nonsense. Come on now....


    Peace. Alan
    Galaxy S7Edge [MM6.0.1] Full Dresser
    Lumia ICON [Win10M 15025.1000] Sportster
    Even when I lose, I win.
    Last edited by Shamshi-Adad; 02-04-2017 at 09:57 AM.
    TgeekB and HeyCori like this.
    02-04-2017 09:47 AM
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