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04-14-2017 08:48 PM
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  1. greedo_greedy's Avatar
    ^ Microsoft may be updating Windows 10 Mobile with bug fixes and security updates on a monthly basis. And yes, our phones are receiving the Creators Update this month.

    It is not clear however if we are ever going to get Redstone 3 this year.

    Also why isn't Microsoft pushing Windows 10 Mobile to eligible phones like the Lumia 640 and Lumia 830? They're opting instead that users manually opt in to get the update - This significantly reduces the market of potential Windows 10 Mobile users.

    This also does not encourage developers to make their apps and games for Windows 10 Mobile since not all eligible Windows Phones are on Windows 10 Mobile.

    Microsoft should engage with the developers more and create more incentives for them to create more apps.

    Just some observations.

    If MS pushes Windows 10 mobile to all eligible phones such as the Lumia 640, 730/735, 830, 930, 1520 we would see an increase of about 2 million Windows 10 mobile users.
    aximtreo, slivy58 and kaktus1389 like this.
    04-01-2017 11:01 AM
  2. TgeekB's Avatar
    ^ Microsoft may be updating Windows 10 Mobile with bug fixes and security updates on a monthly basis. And yes, our phones are receiving the Creators Update this month.

    It is not clear however if we are ever going to get Redstone 3 this year.

    Also why isn't Microsoft pushing Windows 10 Mobile to eligible phones like the Lumia 640 and Lumia 830? They're opting instead that users manually opt in to get the update - This significantly reduces the market of potential Windows 10 Mobile users.

    This also does not encourage developers to make their apps and games for Windows 10 Mobile since not all eligible Windows Phones are on Windows 10 Mobile.

    Microsoft should engage with the developers more and create more incentives for them to create more apps.

    Just some observations.

    If MS pushes Windows 10 mobile to all eligible phones such as the Lumia 640, 730/735, 830, 930, 1520 we would see an increase of about 2 million Windows 10 mobile users.
    .

    Good points.
    I'm not sure they want to push Windows 10 to devices where performance is subpar. That won't impress anyone. I have a 640 updated to 10 and am having storage issues as it's only 8gb.
    I think that's why they're not pushing devs yet either. As the platform becomes more used, more devs will (hopefully) gain interest. Them MS has to do the right thing and work with them. I know it's hard to be patient, but if it's not the right time it will never work.
    Appreciate your response. We need more back and forth conversations and less WM is dead threads.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    04-01-2017 11:37 AM
  3. greedo_greedy's Avatar
    I agree, constructive discussions are better than outright declarations based on ones feelings.

    Regarding MS not pushing Windows 10 Mobile because of "performance is subpar".
    Let us remind ourselves that MS pushed Windows 10 to hundreds of millions of desktop users.

    What is roughly 2 million Windows Phones compared to that?

    By pushing more users to Windows 10 mobile, more devs will be encouraged to move on from WP8.1 to W10M.
    Perhaps we might even see better progress from the Facebook and Messenger app.
    04-01-2017 12:36 PM
  4. TgeekB's Avatar
    I agree, constructive discussions are better than outright declarations based on ones feelings.

    Regarding MS not pushing Windows 10 Mobile because of "performance is subpar".
    Let us remind ourselves that MS pushed Windows 10 to hundreds of millions of desktop users.

    What is roughly 2 million Windows Phones compared to that?

    By pushing more users to Windows 10 mobile, more devs will be encouraged to move on from WP8.1 to W10M.
    Perhaps we might even see better progress from the Facebook and Messenger app.
    I'm not an expert so I can't answer to your question. I would guess desktop is their primary market and are more likely to be able to handle it?
    You're right though, it needs as much exposure as possible. I see exposure on TV news, etc., the NFL using Surface Pros. It takes time to build something new and they certainly have the money to do it.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-01-2017 12:48 PM
  5. kaktus1389's Avatar
    Could you be more detailed on lack of interest and proper investment? I truly do want to have a conversation on points like this but see no data to back them up.
    They are currently releasing the new creators update, so can't we say there is interest? As far as investment, I do not know numbers for how much MS is investing in mobile. Perhaps someone else knows and we can debate if its enough or not.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Okay so let me explain the lack of investment:
    1. No mobile hardware for like 2 years
    2. I would expect that MS services would have some extra or at least more refined features for the apps on their mobile OS only while having their services available for other platforms as well
    3. Continuum push is not good enough. Yeah sure you'll say it is because the Continuum is not ready yet. And my question is going to be why isn't it? Because of probable lack of interest of furtherly developing it because there were not many noticeable changes made for Continuum in the Creators update. My point is that they could do bugfixes just in simple comulative updates for production OS, not just call it a whole big update with "lots of new features" (not even a Paint3D app for mobile even though Donna Sarkar said it was in alpha testing in a tweet).
    4. If there was interest for their own OS, why are they marketing Samsung Galaxy S8? Sure, it can run their services and all that but it's not their product nor does it have their major service - the OS. They could have at least done a dual boot or enhanced Continuum in the Anniversary update already so Samsung would have something that would be nearly as good looking as their DEX for the S8.
    5. The lack of investment is the consequence of the lack of interest - they probably do invest in developing office apps for Android and iOS, but I would rather see them investing in APIs/features that are missing in the UWP to make Office UWP apps as feature rich as desktop Office Win32 apps. This way they would already achieve that their own products would run better on their own platform, assuming other platforms wouldn't have the required APIs/features for Office apps to work as good as on Windows.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-01-2017 05:40 PM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    Okay so let me explain the lack of investment:
    1. No mobile hardware for like 2 years
    2. I would expect that MS services would have some extra or at least more refined features for the apps on their mobile OS only while having their services available for other platforms as well
    3. Continuum push is not good enough. Yeah sure you'll say it is because the Continuum is not ready yet. And my question is going to be why isn't it? Because of probable lack of interest of furtherly developing it because there were not many noticeable changes made for Continuum in the Creators update. My point is that they could do bugfixes just in simple comulative updates for production OS, not just call it a whole big update with "lots of new features" (not even a Paint3D app for mobile even though Donna Sarkar said it was in alpha testing in a tweet).
    4. If there was interest for their own OS, why are they marketing Samsung Galaxy S8? Sure, it can run their services and all that but it's not their product nor does it have their major service - the OS. They could have at least done a dual boot or enhanced Continuum in the Anniversary update already so Samsung would have something that would be nearly as good looking as their DEX for the S8.
    5. The lack of investment is the consequence of the lack of interest - they probably do invest in developing office apps for Android and iOS, but I would rather see them investing in APIs/features that are missing in the UWP to make Office UWP apps as feature rich as desktop Office Win32 apps. This way they would already achieve that their own products would run better on their own platform, assuming other platforms wouldn't have the required APIs/features for Office apps to work as good as on Windows.
    1. They are a software company. That's why Alcatel, HP, etc. are making Windows phones.
    2. What extras do you want? I think they're strategy is to get everyone using Office, etc.
    3. I admit I don't know much about Continuum but I imagine its a huge undertaking.
    4. Again, MS services which pays the bills.
    5. Hopefully eventually?

    Good questions and comments. I really think they are moving in the right direction but it's not easy and takes time. Meanwhile, they can't forget their bread and butter which makes them money. I think they care about the big picture while many of us focus only on mobile. I have decided to be patient and enjoy the ride while using a platform that, to me, is better in many ways than Android and iPhone. That's just my humble opinion though.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    04-01-2017 06:44 PM
  7. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    Could you be more detailed on lack of interest and proper investment? I truly do want to have a conversation on points like this but see no data to back them up.
    They are currently releasing the new creators update, so can't we say there is interest? As far as investment, I do not know numbers for how much MS is investing in mobile. Perhaps someone else knows and we can debate if its enough or not.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    They are certainly investing considerable sums in the future of Mobile, even if it is not immediately noticeable. Even if there are few surface level features to be seen in the Creator Update, the investments are in Windows 10 as a whole and how it benefits the Mobile portion in the future. Like I said before, Microsoft is still focusing on polishing what really makes them money, whilst simultaneously building a foundation to make Mobile a real contender. The interest is there in the continued updates. The investment is in the platform as a whole. I don't agree with all Microsoft's methods, but I do understand their strategy.
    TgeekB and aximtreo like this.
    04-01-2017 07:35 PM
  8. Rod Iron's Avatar
    Strategy? Is there one? I hadn't noticed since Window Phone disappeared on my carrier (sprint). Let's face it Nutella pulled the plug on WP. I (and others) were all set to get a 950 but MS pulled the rug out from under us with the moronic GSM only plan. Yeah sure I could switch carriers but why the #@$% should I?? Just because MS wants to prove a point with someone or whatever they're beef is. We've all watched WP, W10M or whatever you want to call it now fad away. From 10% in some markets to nothing now. Yeah great strategy Nutella! Still I'm not ready to walk away just yet, my NEO is barely working, once it quits it's off to roid land for me. Like some I'm waiting until the mythical Surface phone comes out. If MS hasn't opened up CDMA by then screw it.
    04-02-2017 12:43 AM
  9. kaktus1389's Avatar
    1. They are a software company. That's why Alcatel, HP, etc. are making Windows phones.
    2. What extras do you want? I think they're strategy is to get everyone using Office, etc.
    3. I admit I don't know much about Continuum but I imagine its a huge undertaking.
    4. Again, MS services which pays the bills.
    5. Hopefully eventually?

    Good questions and comments. I really think they are moving in the right direction but it's not easy and takes time. Meanwhile, they can't forget their bread and butter which makes them money. I think they care about the big picture while many of us focus only on mobile. I have decided to be patient and enjoy the ride while using a platform that, to me, is better in many ways than Android and iPhone. That's just my humble opinion though.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    Yes, they are a software company but then why is their software product not getting enough attention? Let me remind you that they made Surface Studio which is targeting very specific population. With a simple Continuum phone running Windows 10 Mobile they would target much bigger population if they would properly update the OS.

    I explained that the extras I want are mostly features for Continuum - like push notifications and upgraded action centre and the full featured taskbar that we can see in the youtube video provided by Windows Central a few months ago (not seeing it in the creators update)- and full Office UWPs + it would be nice to see an UWP app of Visual Studio Code.

    Don't get me wrong - I use Windows 10 Mobile and I plan to use it, the problem is that I feel bad for having whole my family running Windows 10 Mobile and then I see Microsoft marketing an android phone. My family did pay money for their phones, you know, even if the phones are mostly midrange (excluding my 950) it would still be nice of MS to show us, the loyal Windows 10 Mobile users that they are actually trying to make the OS better, to see new things in their updates not just bug fixes.
    greedo_greedy, TgeekB and aximtreo like this.
    04-02-2017 03:28 AM
  10. TgeekB's Avatar
    Yes, they are a software company but then why is their software product not getting enough attention? Let me remind you that they made Surface Studio which is targeting very specific population. With a simple Continuum phone running Windows 10 Mobile they would target much bigger population if they would properly update the OS.
    Well, according to MS, over 400 million devices are running Windows 10. Some are specific devices/audience and some are not but they represent a community that may be interested in the Surface phone when/if it arrives. That's a big number and could make outsiders interested too.

    I'm not trying to defend them, I just don't think the sky is falling like many want to present. I guess I'm happy enough with W10 to sit back and see what the future brings. Others are not and I get that.


    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-02-2017 06:55 AM
  11. FXi2's Avatar
    It's way too soon to judge unless you are aiming for sentiment rather than analysis. Would I love a new flagship now and also have it on VZ too? Yep! But I do love that updates have happened. I do like that mobile follows desktop with little delay. Bluetooth for example got a big redo. We may lament the speed, but things are moving. Does anyone find it amusing that "maybe" iPhone will offer fast charging, wireless charging and USB 3 data speeds years after they were in use by MS? Did anyone notice that the facial camera on the S8 can be fooled by a picture? Maybe we just don't know how good we have it :)
    04-02-2017 11:18 PM
  12. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Think of it this way. MS made a killing on the desktop. They completely missed the Interwebz and spent several years playing catchup. Having conquered the desktop, and become a gaming powerhouse, they need the next big thing. The Surface was a grand idea. I loved my SP3, until it started having memory issues. However, having my Windows Mobile devices, I found I used the surface far less. I take notes on my phone, do most of my interweb browsing on my phone, and even consume media on it.

    Since I work for a huge (100,000+ person) organization, I am very much in with Microsoft and their services. They are definitely focusing on "mobile first/cloud first". It is just that the focus is not on consumers. We have 70,000 hosted email accounts in Office365. We have terabytes of data up in Azure in a private VM. We have thousands of Windows servers and tens of thousands of windows desktops.

    My only concern is this. With BYOD becoming the norm and most people having either IOS or Android devices, they will start clamoring for those devices to be adopted in the enterprise. Neither of my teenagers care about MS Office. They use Google Docs at school to turn in assignments. I'm sure there are many others like them who will not grow up in a MS Office/Windows world.


    Sent from mTalk
    techiez likes this.
    04-03-2017 12:14 AM
  13. techiez's Avatar
    1. They are a software company. That's why Alcatel, HP, etc. are making Windows phones.
    2. What extras do you want? I think they're strategy is to get everyone using Office, etc.
    3. I admit I don't know much about Continuum but I imagine its a huge undertaking.
    4. Again, MS services which pays the bills.
    5. Hopefully eventually?

    Good questions and comments. I really think they are moving in the right direction but it's not easy and takes time. Meanwhile, they can't forget their bread and butter which makes them money. I think they care about the big picture while many of us focus only on mobile. I have decided to be patient and enjoy the ride while using a platform that, to me, is better in many ways than Android and iPhone. That's just my humble opinion though.

    Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S
    They are a software company yet they screwed up W10M launch, the production builds were horrible and eventual sufferer was Lumia 950, but then the hardware took the blame for its failure whereas the real reason was software.

    We are getting updates for now but what features it is bringing? None, not even fixing long standing bugs, the only reason we get updates is because the desktop version gets updates and mobile version just catches up to have the same code base.

    They introduced continuum but its now lagging or almost forgotten, I think that's intentional, because of Windows on Arm thing. so another reboot, and every reboot hits the consumers but MS doesnt yet consider its impacts, they would nt dare to do the same with enterprise but they are ok to lose consumers, but eventually they lose consumer confidence.

    At this moment W10m hardware is hardly available except for a few countries, so indeed pulling back Lumia was a mistake, they inherited deep distribution networks of Nokia and destroyed it, Alcatel/HP devices are again available in limited countries, same would be the case with surface phone, in short they can never capture consumer space again without a dedicated hardware partner like Nokia.
    04-03-2017 04:36 AM
  14. SlideWRX's Avatar
    1. They are a software company. That's why Alcatel, HP, etc. are making Windows phones.
    I would argue they are a hardware company, even though they proclaim otherwise. They have been making Xboxs for 15 years, they are making the surface line, they are making hololens.

    Nadella likes iphones and keeps saying 'we need to put windows mobile in a grave', and someone in marketing mis-took that as 'retrenchment'. They talked to the guy that does the teleprompted speeches, and next thing you know, Nadella is reading it right off the prompter. He's like Ron Burgundy like that.

    Apple and Samoogle (Goosung?) both release their phones on a schedule; everyone knows there will be a new one next year and the year after that. MS doesn't do that, so very few manufacturers/developers feel secure investing there.
    04-03-2017 01:40 PM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    They are a software company yet they screwed up W10M launch, the production builds were horrible and eventual sufferer was Lumia 950, but then the hardware took the blame for its failure whereas the real reason was software.

    We are getting updates for now but what features it is bringing? None, not even fixing long standing bugs, the only reason we get updates is because the desktop version gets updates and mobile version just catches up to have the same code base.

    They introduced continuum but its now lagging or almost forgotten, I think that's intentional, because of Windows on Arm thing. so another reboot, and every reboot hits the consumers but MS doesnt yet consider its impacts, they would nt dare to do the same with enterprise but they are ok to lose consumers, but eventually they lose consumer confidence.

    At this moment W10m hardware is hardly available except for a few countries, so indeed pulling back Lumia was a mistake, they inherited deep distribution networks of Nokia and destroyed it, Alcatel/HP devices are again available in limited countries, same would be the case with surface phone, in short they can never capture consumer space again without a dedicated hardware partner like Nokia.
    I don't believe MS, at this time, is focused on the consumer market and I think that's smart.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Captain_Eric likes this.
    04-03-2017 03:29 PM
  16. techiez's Avatar
    I don't believe MS, at this time, is focused on the consumer market and I think that's smart.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    As far as windows mobile is concerned, they arent focused on any market. Its foolish to think they will win enterprise with continuum. Windows on Arm might save them but it will be a PC with cellular capabilities which is ok, but if fans are expecting a phone replacement, its not gonna happen not even with surface phone.
    a5cent and aximtreo like this.
    04-04-2017 03:46 AM
  17. SlideWRX's Avatar
    As far as windows mobile is concerned, they arent focused on any market. Its foolish to think they will win enterprise with continuum.
    I agree. They conned HP into believing the Continuum thing, then let it sit with basically no updates for 2 years. HP is now burned, and probably won't bring the rumored consumer phone to market because of the sketchy support from MS.

    Yeah, my phone gets updated regularly. The bugs I have don't change though. They really need to remove the feature that adds a bug/freezes/reboots anytime W10M hears 'let me show you on my windows phone'.
    techiez, xandros9 and aximtreo like this.
    04-04-2017 08:58 AM
  18. ssgklu's Avatar
    I don't think the 'reentrenchment' or whatever it was and is currently has been strong enough from a Mobile perspective.
    Microsoft squandered Nokia, lost Windows Phone 8.1 momentum. Microsoft still hasn't really changed much on the Mobile front, other than making Mobile bland, removing features that set Windows Phone apart.
    04-04-2017 12:29 PM
  19. MysticForce's Avatar
    Personally, I am satisfied with the strategy. Realistically, what can Microsoft do? There is no money in the world to pay all companies that work applications, most of the develppers won't work on app for a small market.
    Therefore pushing Lumia without success, doesn't make much sense.

    Honestly I love windows phone and mobile but I do not see them a place in the future because people are afraid of change of OS, even if OS is ok, inovative, people are closed to changes, specialy OS.
    Microsoft lost a lot of money on Lumia, not worth it to them to invest a lot. Lumia are entering a magical circle that never ends and no solutions in sight.

    So they do what they can, and do what is smart to do.
    04-05-2017 04:29 AM
  20. techiez's Avatar
    Personally, I am satisfied with the strategy. Realistically, what can Microsoft do? There is no money in the world to pay all companies that work applications, most of the develppers won't work on app for a small market.
    Therefore pushing Lumia without success, doesn't make much sense.

    Honestly I love windows phone and mobile but I do not see them a place in the future because people are afraid of change of OS, even if OS is ok, inovative, people are closed to changes, specialy OS.
    Microsoft lost a lot of money on Lumia, not worth it to them to invest a lot. Lumia are entering a magical circle that never ends and no solutions in sight.

    So they do what they can, and do what is smart to do.
    After buying Nokia, they shd still have kept it as a separate division headquartered in EU or Asia, shd have retrenched out of US where Lumia was always struggling. Nokia was gaining marketshare in EU and Asia, it could have let W10M stay relevant and given it a fighting chance.

    MS mobile story is like the story of the boiling frog.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
    aximtreo likes this.
    04-05-2017 06:10 AM
  21. mkenyon2's Avatar
    Satisfied? No! And not because of hardware. It's because of focus.

    Microsoft fosters a 'What's next' attitude for developers, especially in-house. (At least as far as I can tell.) They like to develop something new, and put it out there, waiting for others to pick it up and run with it.
    What that means is a host of basic default apps that have little/no support.

    On my 950, running the current production OS, the Messaging, and Podcast apps have major bugs/flaws. I don't always receive texts. Group chats blow up with certain contacts using the wrong type of phone, and the Podcast app just has some really weird crashes that require a phone reboot. I've tried Skype Preview on the phone, but had some messages that just weren't visible. I'd receive notification that I got the message, but the message thread was empty.

    The MS account situation is terrible. In the People App I have random contacts merging and/or unlinking and that's with an @outlook email address. Outlook.com itself is nice, but features are not consistent across devices/platforms. I can do some things in the web client I can't do with Windows Mail.
    I tried 365 a year ago, but that felt like less than Beta, and yet they want to charge me?! Features I signed up for weren't working.

    All-in-all I think MS is focusing on Cloud, that is, Azure, and 365. Windows, weather mobile or desktop is simply becoming a tool to push their services. Like the cheap sale item to get you in the store, advertised but not supported.

    I'm a .Net developer, and MS is pushing .Net Core. It's the latest and greatest but it's not done yet. They keep pushing stuff out the door half-baked.

    TL;DR;
    I hate to say it, but MS needs to do a few things well, not everything half-baked. I've used MS phones since Mobile 5. But I'm tired of trying the latest/greatest, yet it still breaks down as much as it does. Don't sell me what you can't deliver. Once I pay off my 950, I may just look at Android.

    Oh, and don't get me started on OneDrive!
    Last edited by mkenyon2; 04-05-2017 at 12:27 PM.
    xandros9 likes this.
    04-05-2017 11:30 AM
  22. Ma Rio's Avatar
    I'm perfectly OK with all the 'pain and suffering' as long as there is an end goal. If it's all for nothing, and this isn't a plan but actually a lack of one, then screw that.
    04-05-2017 05:16 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    That's me waiting for a new webOS phone.
    xandros9 and aximtreo like this.
    04-05-2017 05:38 PM
  24. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Honestly I love windows phone and mobile but I do not see them a place in the future because people are afraid of change of OS, even if OS is ok, innovative, people are closed to changes, especially OS.
    Funny, that statement reminded me of what I used to say about Linux on the desktop about fifteen years ago. You are absolutely correct.


    Sent from mTalk
    MysticForce likes this.
    04-05-2017 05:56 PM
  25. the_moesiah's Avatar
    I don't like it but I understand why it's necessary. There's no point in them continuing to put out new devices that don't sell. Even their budget models aren't doing well. Just look at the Lumia 640. There's was a ton of hype over that phone in the WP community. I know I waited very impatiently for it for close to a year, if not more. Then it was only available on T-Mobile's website and virtually none of their employees even knew what it was. Then it was at a few Walmart stores, but in both cases they were only sold for a handful of weeks. Less than two months I'd assume.

    The best we can do is to continue waiting and hope that things turn around with the ARM devices. AND hope that this devices come soon.
    04-05-2017 06:04 PM
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