Microsoft well known for breaking promise

[a5cent]

Windows mobile will be erased by windows 10 on arm.

Wrong... Wrong... Wrong.

W10M will NOT be "erased" by W10oA.

Why not? Because W10oA comes with all the same issues W10 has:

W10 and W10oA require continual maintenance and administration. For "non geeks" it's far too easy to screw something up and nobody likes being dependent on others to get their computing devices fixed. Consumers have no certainty that uninstalling software actually deletes all of it. It's impossible for MS to protect Win32 users from themselves. Win32 software neither knows nor cares about the restrictions typically placed on low power mobile devices... and it never will care (Win32 software is a power hog). Malware abounds... etc. Basically, everything that has given Windows a poor reputation.

W10M exists to remedy all those problems. W10oA remedies none of them! These are two completely different beasts. They technically overlap in only two ways: both run on ARM chips and they both run UWP apps. That's all. That's a pathetic amount of overlap for anything hoping to "erase" something else.

W10oA exists to solve one or more of these (completely unrelated) problems:

a) To reduce the price of portable Windows computers
b) To bring mobile SoC features to Windows computers
c) To popularize the UWP

It is true that W10oA will likely replace W10M on MS' mobile devices (at least for now). However, "replace" does not mean "erase". W10M will continue to be developed for quite some time yet.

If UWP ever becomes successfull (big "if"... I know), then W10M will make perfect sense again.

 

[mtf1380]

Yah that's how MS sees it, like it or not. You sticking around with some old phone instead of getting the latest phone that they reveal means you're not worth it. This phone was the most powerful at the time, had this cool continuum feature and this is the first time they revealed a flagship in YEARS. You still didn't buy it. You had no idea whether the phone was going to have issues or not, you just didn't buy it. The issues were being brought up slowly over time, especially as newer builds came in. But you never knew this at launch and you didn't support them. To them it looked like there was no market for phones even with their hardcore audience. And they started pulling back and getting rid of stock with ridiculous price cuts.

I'm not saying you're a fan or not on my own volition. I'm telling you what it looks like to MS. To MS it looked like it was just a Nokia crowd that didn't care for MS products but wanted to keep that Nokia nostalgia.

My 950XL is great. It took them a year to get it right no doubt. Surface Book had a lot of growing pains too, but it sold like crazy, because there was demand.

There is no demand for windows phone, just accept that. It is dead. I always had some hope but man I realize that it's impossible. Windows mobile will be erased by windows 10 on arm. And a consumer hololens is the only thing that can make UWP really take off if any future mobile devices have any chance of having an app ecosystem.

Well Krystianpants, this is the first time that I can remember that I have disagreed with you, but regarding the above there are areas of disagreement I do feel.

I had waited for 1 1/2 years to find a significant reason to upgrade my L920 (which I had paid $850 for), I passed on a number of perfect contenders, and was pleased at the prospect of a 950/950XL with Windows 10 being released, I started following the news/rumor/spec releases in anticipation of its availability, I even watched the Microsoft Oct 6th, I was so excited. I must say that after watching Panos Panay's lack of enthusiasm regarding the 950/950XL (like he didn't want his name tied to it), gave me reservations. As a matter of fact at that point, I would have normally waited to have a look-see, but because I was soooo sick of my 920, I was one of the first to order. I will say, I think it is fool, or the brave, that buys a pig-in-a-poke (I consider myself the prior), but because I was so damn pleased with all aspect of the 920, I disobeyed my instincts and jumped in, if I had been smart, I would have let the brave lead the way, but of course I did not. I am very happy (now) with the 950XL (I wish I had pay a lesser amount than want I did), but if my 950XL went out today, I'd buy another...period. But I can empathize with those that may not wish to be the guinea pigs, and buy what they needed. I bought the 950XL because I wanted the camera, or I may have bought something less equipped.

Please understand, I mean no disrespect, just another POV...Cheers!

Mike

 

[etphoto]

735 Verizon user here and I went back on the insider program today and installed the creator's update using the slow ring. Seems to be working fine (so far).

I remember doing this with my HTC M8 when it wasn't going to be updated to Windows 10 and it worked for a while. The updates stopped coming though after a while and I fear the same thing will be happening with my 735.



Twitter: @PhotographyET

 

[Nate Silver]

duh!

You're right libra89, my bad. Sorry @Nate Silver, for the bad advice.

Not a problem, man. Few wireless choices is the price I pay for living in the woods. Must be really bad blood between MS and Verizon for them to be willing to shut out quite a chunk of potential customers.

 

[ven07]

Imma take Krystian's side on this one.

If more people upgraded to the 950/XL instead of holding on to whatever they have now it would probably be better. Especially if you're looking for a phone that MS actually wants (seemingly) to release updates for.

But this does make me a hypocrite I have the 640 and I'm not planning to upgrade (unless I can get the 950 for less than 200 lol) until MS provides a decent picture and tangible proof of the future

 

[gjbcapital]

It's Microsoft's fault. They had to make sure for 2 things.

First that at the launch of the platform the 10 most popular apps (facebook etc.) will have a working full version in native code for the platform.

Second that at the launch of the platform the serious bugs will be zero.

If a 500 billion dollars corporation can't ensure that they have allocated enough resources and have the necessary strategic partnerships to achieve this then the heads of the project are amateurs.

 

[Zulfigar]

Microsoft promises 3 years of support for mobile devices. The Lumia 930 came out exactly 3 years ago (April of 2014). So not sure why the hate, Microsoft is just keeping their word on a promise they made.

 

[anon(50597)]

Imma take Krystian's side on this one.

If more people upgraded to the 950/XL instead of holding on to whatever they have now it would probably be better. Especially if you're looking for a phone that MS actually wants (seemingly) to release updates for.

But this does make me a hypocrite I have the 640 and I'm not planning to upgrade (unless I can get the 950 for less than 200 lol) until MS provides a decent picture and tangible proof of the future

You could probably get a refurbished or used 950 for about $200.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

 

[ven07]

You could probably get a refurbished or used 950 for about $200.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

I did check but I'm honestly waiting for some more shape in the w10m landscape. Until that happens my 640 should be sufficient, unless I go on a spending spree lol

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[HM84]

Imma take Krystian's side on this one.

If more people upgraded to the 950/XL instead of holding on to whatever they have now it would probably be better. Especially if you're looking for a phone that MS actually wants (seemingly) to release updates for.

But this does make me a hypocrite I have the 640 and I'm not planning to upgrade (unless I can get the 950 for less than 200 lol) until MS provides a decent picture and tangible proof of the future

Indulge me here. Years ago, European football teams had the habit of releasing new kits before the start of every season. When complaints came up from fans (and their parents) having to pay top euro for the privilege of wearing the newest, whitest Real Madrid shirt, regulators required a minimum two year cycle. All teams held onto their words for a while, and released the home shirts and away shirts in year one, then unleashed a third kit in year two (usually in a blinding shade of slime green), then brought out a new home kit in year three, to keep the dough rolling in. Guess who kept emptying their pockets for the newest, pinkest, Real Madrid alternate strips.

The analogy I am making is that if you want me to be this type of fan, give me something worth the money I am paying. Saying the fans are to blame for not paying 500$ every year is a bit of a stretch.

Oh and for the record, yes, I did get the 950XL as soon as it was available in my country. (Took them three months to get here, though.) And while I did have issues (still do) I do not regret my decision. However electronics companies should realize that, when they were selling PCs that were obsolete in a few months, they rode a wave (of fans) to the bank. If they plan on doing this again on phones, then fair game to them if they get the money, but remember where the PC market is right now; fans get fed up after a while.

 

[ven07]

Meh not saying anyone should shell out $500 bucks every time there is a new phone lol

 

[Anthony McIntosh]

Think its safe to go to slow ring and get the creators update for my Lumia 1520 ?

 

[Anthony McIntosh]

Originally posted by Zulfigar
Microsoft promises 3 years of support for mobile devices. The Lumia 930 came out exactly 3 years ago (April of 2014). So not sure why the hate, Microsoft is just keeping their word on a promise they made.

I don't mind. But I was hoping that I can still risk my phone going on with the insider program. At least that and I would be fine.

 

[LightenSkies]

Get the creators update for your 1520 before Microsoft takes it away. The latest build runs good. Just tiny issues.

 

[HM84]

Meh not saying anyone should shell out $500 bucks every time there is a new phone lol

You're right, you don't. Others on this thread seem to think so, though. And companies are counting on them to do it. You also did mention that...

"If more people upgraded to the 950/XL instead of holding on to whatever they have now it would probably be better."

...which is where my response came in. Not that I mean to hold you or anyone accountable for anything uttered on an internet forum.

What I was trying to say is that, unlike enterprise software, which is always needed and has to be renewed every year or so, consumer electronics are too much of an ask. What any manufacturer needs to do in this case is sell to someone who doesn't already subscribe. This is where Apple's and Samsung's marketing won, and MS' lost.

Forgive me for sidetracking, so to get back to the point of the thread, no. The problem is not broken promises. MS did not promise something they did not give. It is more a case of failure by someone who meant well. It's still disappointing, and if certain individuals intentionally led to this happening, then blame them if you need to blame someone. But as a whole, MS did what they came to do, got somewhere, gave up, packed their bags and went home when the time came to cut their losses.

 

[mtf1380]

But as a whole, MS did what they came to do, got somewhere, gave up, packed their bags and went home when the time came to cut their losses.

@HM84, with all due respect, we don't 'know' this as a fact...just conjecture.

My "conjecture" is that MS saw that 8.1 wasn't going to fully do what they wanted to achieve, and it was decided to rewrite the core hardware to be future friendly, and SECURE! The devices will start to appear once the final architecture is realized, again...my feelings only.

But, regardless...anyone's buying habits is a personal preference and choice, and should be respected by others. If I feel like a product is right for me, and I can afford it, I'll buy it; if not, or can't...I won't. The manufacturers have the onus to make a consumer want to choose the prior, it is not the consumers 'responsibility' to buy $hit, that obligation is reserved for family, friends, and the misfortunate - not a profitable corporation...EVEN if the corporation displays excellent social contributions (for that they get kudos).

 

[a5cent]

My "conjecture" is that MS saw that 8.1 wasn't going to fully do what they wanted to achieve, and it was decided to rewrite the core hardware to be future friendly, and SECURE! The devices will start to appear once the final architecture is realized, again...my feelings only.

I can provide a bit more than "conjecture" on this.

I suspect you meant to say "rewrite the core software". Very little in W10M was really rewritten however, least of all the core. The rewriting that did occur focused mainly on getting the few parts that remained (from WP8) to interface correctly with all the components that were brought over from desktop Windows (W10). Security, although always important, was by no means a major reason or motivator for any of this. WP7 was already the most secure consumer OS ever built. W10M is no more secure than WP7.x. If anything W10M is less secure (in exchange it offers some features that WP7 couldn't for security reasons).

W10M represents the final software architecture of MS' mobile OS line. The foundation is now built. There will be no more major architectural evolutions on that front. On the bright side, MS can now focus on things that, although technically much smaller, simpler and architecturally irrelevant, are much more exciting to consumers. For example, UI innovations like CShell, or anything related to productivity and "creators". You can't build that (edit) economically (/edit) on top of a shaky or evolving foundation. That's why these types of things necessarily come last. Which is now.

Completely agree with everything else you said.

But as a whole, MS did what they came to do, got somewhere, gave up, packed their bags and went home when the time came to cut their losses.

I agree that it could be framed that way. On the other hand, MS has only given up on phones. MS have not given up on mobile, nor have they cut their losses (they are are still investing heavily into W10M, which currently provides no ROI whatsoever).

There is still a plan. It's just that nobody here knows what it is. All we can do is hope that somebody at MS does.

 

[mtf1380]

@a5cent, thank you for your expertise. Yes, I did mean Software (whoops!). I always felt that MS was doing a little/major software finessing, and they were going to focus on that task prior to introducing anything in the phone-ish hardware area...I would think, to avoid another mobile disappointment, and additional bad press?

Thank you again.

 

[HM84]

@a5cent, @mtf1380,

The reason for my statement is specifically that no one hears nearly enough about plans for W10M from MS. Pair that to the speculation on ARM or the Surface phone, then the official news of MS partnering with Samsung to sell an Android phone, and you can see why I referred to cutting losses.

I agree with you both that the OS has evolved greatly from what it was back in WP8, and continues to do so, which is where we stand from a technical view (a sign of action by MS, but this should not be seen as the silver lining here). That said, I still have to note the drop in support and attention from the outside world, and the silence from MS as a result, which is the "real world" view.

 

[a5cent]

@HM84
Agreed. It basically comes down to popular opinion/perception vs. reality. You were talking about the former. We were talking about the later. I prefer to stick with the cold hard facts. If MS is still investing hundreds of millions into W10M annually, then they have not cut their losses, no matter how much appearances suggest otherwise.

However, I'm also fully aware that often times perception is reality, which is where things get fuzzy. Perception and reality are both important.