05-03-2017 05:09 AM
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  1. Keith Blackwell's Avatar
    Shame, I know Microsoft has the resources to make this beautiful UI comparable to iOS and Android. I personally believe WP is better. I carry a iPhone work phone with my WP for the past 6 years. WP is better. I reach for it without thinking and not my iPhone.
    We need a superior customizable OS, and WP is really it.
    usman iqbal2 likes this.
    04-15-2017 05:04 PM
  2. Luuthian's Avatar
    If Dona said what she said there... as far as I'm concerned that's as close to confirming the death of their cellphone efforts as we'll get until it's official. That's not even a thinly veiled statement IMO.

    That being said, I don't fully diagree with the "idea" that cellphones are unnatural. No doubt we'll evolve beyond them. A successor technology is so far off though. Good for Microsoft to use augmented reality as their lead-in to the next paradigm shift... that does absolutely nothing for us today though. Windows Mobile fans are going to be left in the dust if that's the most crumbs we're being offered. It sounds like MS has moved on to what they hope will be the next big mobile endeavour.
    04-17-2017 12:43 AM
  3. Devan Hammack's Avatar
    I've had an iPad for a while. Had an iPhone for a year. Its easy to use and all, but I cant get past the fact that Apple makes them and they're so overpriced.
    I was just given a galaxy S5 to test out Android with. I've had android before and didn't like it, but that was back in Doughnut, or the dark days... So I'm willing to give it a shot.
    Well, I've spent two days with it and really don't like it. Sure its flexible and has lots of options, but its also lagged on me a few times (wth?) and the interface is a jumbled mess every idea any has every had thrown at a wall. Jesus, there is no design language.. just put everything in there... everywhere!!! Ugh...

    So I'll be sticking with my 950Xl for a while longer. It doesn't have Clash of Clans, Mint, Southwest, or my banking app... but I can access anything I want quicker and easier than I can on Android.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-17-2017 01:13 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    If Dona said what she said there... as far as I'm concerned that's as close to confirming the death of their cellphone efforts as we'll get until it's official. That's not even a thinly veiled statement IMO.

    That being said, I don't fully diagree with the "idea" that cellphones are unnatural. No doubt we'll evolve beyond them. A successor technology is so far off though. Good for Microsoft to use augmented reality as their lead-in to the next paradigm shift... that does absolutely nothing for us today though. Windows Mobile fans are going to be left in the dust if that's the most crumbs we're being offered. It sounds like MS has moved on to what they hope will be the next big mobile endeavour.
    Given the skype bot idea of a conversational ecosystem under Cortana, I don't actually think voice as a primary or shared input method is far off at all. Products like google assistant and alexa will be primitive next to this sort of technology (incidently MS also purchased a machine learning software for understanding word context from a little start-up - closest thing anyone has gotten to software actually understanding language).

    I could see voice, under this sort of paradigm, growing very rapidly from what is bound to be a close release.

    I can for example ask a news skype bot "whats the latest news in such and such place", and while no assistant can answer that without merely differing me to search, the bot can. Bot software can serve in the place of apps. When there's a bot for uber, traffic warnings, news, weather, mail and so on, a whole ecosystem of them, as there is for touch, you can just use a watch, no need for a bulky phone. Or a credit card sized device. The device can just show info cards, and your earpiece can do the rest.

    No more staring at a screen all day, pinching and twiddling. Just "hey Cortana, have I got any mail?"

    I'm reminded of the movie "her". People used augmented reality, 3d hand gestures, and primarily, voice and machine learning. Touch was basically fairly absent. It seemed very natural.

    I really don't think it'll be long before we see the rise of voice, rather than its more gimmicky but functionally questionable current manifestation. And while I doubt it will take off straight away, seems like HoloLens can't be too much longer.
    04-17-2017 02:24 AM
  5. wgrs's Avatar
    Dona said that???????
    Smartphones won't live much longer??

    Don't take her seriously. She doesn't have any clues. She is the Twitter girl and she even fails that easy job.
    04-17-2017 02:45 AM
  6. usman iqbal2's Avatar
    window mobile operating system is most beautiful and best of all mobile operating system. Unforniteyly i feel very sorry for microsoft how easily they let doom this operating system. Microsoft only need to less their developing fee so that small and creative developer give some interest to develop theiir application.
    04-17-2017 03:22 AM
  7. usman iqbal2's Avatar
    dona sarkar doom the window phone. shame on your. hell with you. mobile is futur of computing. if you lost to andriod phone you will be lose on pc very soon. microsoft you are doom.
    mikepalma likes this.
    04-17-2017 03:24 AM
  8. wgrs's Avatar
    dona sarkar doom the window phone. shame on your. hell with you. mobile is futur of computing. if you lost to andriod phone you will be lose on pc very soon. microsoft you are doom.
    She isn't responsible. She has no clues and she uses personally an iPhone. Better ignore her.
    mikepalma, bing722 and Kevin Rush like this.
    04-17-2017 03:31 AM
  9. andrew-in-woking's Avatar
    Dona said that???????
    Smartphones won't live much longer??

    When Steve Jobs went back to Apple in 1997 to rescue them, everyone was expecting him to immediately pronounce some great big inspiring aim, like regain market dominance in PC sales, but instead he cut the company right back to a niche PC manufacturer, which he had to for the company to survive.

    When he was asked a couple of years later what his strategy was he simply said: "To wait for the next big thing that comes along."

    The next big thing was digital Music and Apple came back to dominance through the iPod and then iTunes. From there is was the iPhone and the iPad.

    I think Microsoft have, quite rightly, admitted defeat in the smartphone (OS) market and that they are trying to emulate what Steve Jobs did with Apple, i.e. conserve their resources, wait for a significant opportunity and then throw everything behind winning in that new market domain.

    Whether they can succeed in this way is yet to be seen but, like all technology, there is no doubt that Smartphones, as we think of them today have a limited lifespan. It is a long term approach which has a short term negative impact.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many W10M users feel similarly today as Mac users felt when Steve Jobs came back to Apple and instead of selling some hugely superior Mac he cut the number of models from 15 to one and significantly limited the sales availability of the device.
    Drael646464 likes this.
    04-17-2017 03:34 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    When Steve Jobs went back to Apple in 1997 to rescue them, everyone was expecting him to immediately pronounce some great big inspiring aim, like regain market dominance in PC sales, but instead he cut the company right back to a niche PC manufacturer, which he had to for the company to survive.

    When he was asked a couple of years later what his strategy was he simply said: "To wait for the next big thing that comes along."

    The next big thing was digital Music and Apple came back to dominance through the iPod and then iTunes. From there is was the iPhone and the iPad.

    I think Microsoft have, quite rightly, admitted defeat in the smartphone (OS) market and that they are trying to emulate what Steve Jobs did with Apple, i.e. conserve their resources, wait for a significant opportunity and then throw everything behind winning in that new market domain.

    Whether they can succeed in this way is yet to be seen but, like all technology, there is no doubt that Smartphones, as we think of them today have a limited lifespan. It is a long term approach which has a short term negative impact.

    I wouldn't be surprised if many W10M users feel similarly today as Mac users felt when Steve Jobs came back to Apple and instead of selling some hugely superior Mac he cut the number of models from 15 to one and significantly limited the sales availability of the device.
    There are numerous parallels one could draw between job's apple, and Nadella's Microsoft. People have been known to say of late "Is MS the new apple?". I think the marketing is similarly values based, the product design is similarly "vision" based, the goal being not to copy, but to lead.

    Of course predicting the next curves is always going to be hit and miss, but they are not far away, and a lot of others have some very half-hearted approaches to the future, with things like smart home products and smart watches with limited application/functionality. An "all in" approach to future product catergories, where you are truly innovating is bound to be more successful.

    MS is very fortunate to have its continued desktop dominance, and its enterprise and server products. If a company like apple lost its iPhone at this point, it could be devastating. For MS to lose a little bit of growth over mostly complimentary mobile phones is not such a big deal.
    04-17-2017 05:37 AM
  11. Devan Hammack's Avatar
    I borrow a galaxy S5 on Friday to use it for a while to see if I could adjust to Android. I haven't used Android for about 5 yrs. After just 3 days of using it, I'm already noticing some serious lagging. Touch events aren't always being recognized, a swipe down to access notifications takes a few seconds to show anything. Swiping left and right through their home screens is delayed, or skips a screen. Simple games (Threes!) are lagging.

    Jesus, this is just 3 days (since Saturday)???
    Pretty bad.
    04-17-2017 12:57 PM
  12. sd4f's Avatar
    I have a hunch and am thinking (maybe more wishful thinking) that MS is just trying to hype up a last ditch effort in mobile phones.

    I just can't see a compelling possibility that would encourage widespread adoption, but more importantly the abandonment of existing devices and ecosystems in favour of MS' offerings. The next big thing isn't going to stop people from using or wanting existing apps, so it would have to offer something rather special to compel developers to support it. A larger screen and decent browser experience will only get the platform so far, too many apps are only available as an app and I think this is the big problem MS will have.

    However, without mobile, windows is kind of stagnant, and hasn't got much to move. I can see with things like the surface studio and creators in mind, MS is targeting entrenched PC use cases which aren't going to be displaced any time soon for multiple reasons, but that isn't going to sustain things for a company like MS.
    04-17-2017 08:46 PM
  13. Drael646464's Avatar
    I have a hunch and am thinking (maybe more wishful thinking) that MS is just trying to hype up a last ditch effort in mobile phones.

    I just can't see a compelling possibility that would encourage widespread adoption, but more importantly the abandonment of existing devices and ecosystems in favour of MS' offerings. The next big thing isn't going to stop people from using or wanting existing apps, so it would have to offer something rather special to compel developers to support it. A larger screen and decent browser experience will only get the platform so far, too many apps are only available as an app and I think this is the big problem MS will have.

    However, without mobile, windows is kind of stagnant, and hasn't got much to move. I can see with things like the surface studio and creators in mind, MS is targeting entrenched PC use cases which aren't going to be displaced any time soon for multiple reasons, but that isn't going to sustain things for a company like MS.
    So you don't think, a voice platform of "skills" (Microsoft bot framework under Cortana as a superapp), or a large screen situation (folding tablets or 3 in 1s/continuum), or augmented reality (glasses with projected screens), woulld make existing apps far less important, and considerably less in vogue ?

    And all of these, folding screens, continuum, augmented reality and total voice control? (All things MS has in the works).

    Existing apps are entirely bound in the form factor and input method. As soon as the FF changes, and the input methods change, those apps are then legacy apps.

    Take something as present as Samsungs DeX. Its a great platform, but the largest complaint is that despite being on android, there are literally no apps in android designed to run on a larger screen with multi-tasking. Its an android device, with a basically zero ecosystem for the application. That problem only compounds when voice, folding tablets, augmented reality and so on come in. Until the point where having this great touch ecosystem, designed for small screens, really isn't the primary thing you want at all.

    Incidentally tablets are a "complimentary" market for the most part (as are phones...ie they don't tend to replace computers but exist along side them), and a new frontier for MS, in which they are the only non-budget player experiencing growth. With year on year growth, and just 5% windows marketshare, there is a great deal of room to expand there.

    Their cloud server products are still experiencing growth. And PCs, being in an upgrade cycle, have just restarted growth last quarter. Not only that but the premium smartphone market will stop growing, and start experiencing negative growth really soon, due to saturation.

    It's not as simple as "you must do smartphones". That boom is ready to start winding down, and everyone is looking for the next wave of tech adoption.

    Really "the next big thing" is exactly what one should be targeting. Because that's where the financial boom will come from. Hence why amazon, google and apple are all trying their hand at assistants, smart watches, smart homes and more, Samsung and apple hybrid forms - they aren't particularly profitable right now, but every one knows that's where the next wave of profit comes from something else, when smartphones slow and get superceeded.

    That's just how the tech world rolls. Apps aren't going to mean squat 30 years from now when we have hard AI, and they'll probably mean a great deal less the moment we get bigger portable screens or full voice ecosystems, neither of which are too far off.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-17-2017 at 10:11 PM.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-17-2017 09:59 PM
  14. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    I have a hunch and am thinking (maybe more wishful thinking) that MS is just trying to hype up a last ditch effort in mobile phones.
    Several fully functional currently updated W10M phones = "dead", and now "dead" = "hype"...?

    I must not be getting my memos.

    I just can't see a compelling possibility that would encourage widespread adoption, but more importantly the abandonment of existing devices and ecosystems in favour of MS' offerings. The next big thing isn't going to stop people from using or wanting existing apps, so it would have to offer something rather special to compel developers to support it. A larger screen and decent browser experience will only get the platform so far, too many apps are only available as an app and I think this is the big problem MS will have.
    Well, if you're a developer of an app that only runs on iOS and Android then there might not be a financial incentive in developing for a tiny W10M phone market. But if MS puts out new devices that are anywhere from 5" and up and millions and millions of users begin to switch over then the customer base is there all of a sudden.

    For all those who use desktops for relatively light applications and mobile phones for communications and light work (email/text/etc) there was no option other than to get a PC and a phone, two separate devices. I'm convinced however that there's a good argument for spending less for more flexibility, which is what I think we'll see over the next two years or so.

    However, without mobile, windows is kind of stagnant, and hasn't got much to move.
    Doesn't look stagnant at all to me. Looks like there's a lot going on, especially under the hood.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-17-2017 11:12 PM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    How can 2017 and 2018 not be great years for MS?

    We have Cortana Microsoft bot framework intergration coming. That'll be this year I am sure. That already has tens of thousands of developers.

    This year will likely see the rumoured CloudBook or Windows Cloud - their UWP based Chromebook competitor, and also Windows on ARM.

    Next year, might finally be the year of the HoloLens, they year Cortana's "skills" platform really takes off and likely IMO, the release of both the surface phone and a new mobile form factor.

    MS has a lot of pies in the oven. And some number of them are pretty close.
    04-18-2017 03:21 AM
  16. Cosmin Petrenciuc's Avatar
    I can for example ask a news skype bot "whats the latest news in such and such place", and while no assistant can answer that without merely differing me to search, the bot can. Bot software can serve in the place of apps. When there's a bot for uber, traffic warnings, news, weather, mail and so on, a whole ecosystem of them, as there is for touch, you can just use a watch, no need for a bulky phone. Or a credit card sized device. The device can just show info cards, and your earpiece can do the rest.

    No more staring at a screen all day, pinching and twiddling. Just "hey Cortana, have I got any mail?"
    That would work very nicely for all the world regions where English is the main language being used. I'm Romanian. It would be amazing if Microsoft just made Cortana read, write and speak Romanian, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen in the next 5 years. So, for me, the probable answer I might get from Cortana to the question if I have any new e-mails would be something like "Yes, you have N new e-mails. Find yourself a computer to read them because I can't do that."

    Yes, this natural language integration is a big and great paradigm shift, but by approaching the Mobile market from this perspective Microsoft won't see a big return of investment any time soon because this approach would be probably limited, as I said, to regions where English is the official language.
    04-18-2017 03:36 AM
  17. Cosmin Petrenciuc's Avatar
    Dona said that???????
    Smartphones won't live much longer??
    Those weren't her exact words but as I said she HINTED those ideas. Listen the podcast from 25:50 to 28:00 and pay attention to 25:25 and 27:00.
    04-18-2017 03:46 AM
  18. nasznjoka's Avatar
    You get this, heck, we all get this. Somehow though, MS doesn't seem to.

    The Galaxy S8 MS Edition was a really low blow. Not because the hardware is bad. Heck, I would argue that the only real shortcoming that phone has right now is Android itself, but that's a different matter. Still, MS could have at least told us something, anything, before going nuclear on user confidence again.
    Android is 8 years ahead of windows... The 10 windows phone fans think IT'S BEAUTIFUL and others are ugly reminds me of a poor man with no shoes and rejected one because he's used to walking shoe less.. I personally think one of the major drawbacks of wp is actually it's UI.. It's so ugly big fonts darkness everywhere the reason the general public rejected that sh"**t.. Generally android has widgets that people can setup to get info at glance but people don't use them alot and this should tell you that the home screen is just a gateway not the whole experience plus we have notifications for that purpose... You guys here live in the world of your imagination but just to let you know that android is beautiful just check most modern websites they use material design
    04-18-2017 04:19 AM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    That would work very nicely for all the world regions where English is the main language being used. I'm Romanian. It would be amazing if Microsoft just made Cortana read, write and speak Romanian, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen in the next 5 years. So, for me, the probable answer I might get from Cortana to the question if I have any new e-mails would be something like "Yes, you have N new e-mails. Find yourself a computer to read them because I can't do that."

    Yes, this natural language integration is a big and great paradigm shift, but by approaching the Mobile market from this perspective Microsoft won't see a big return of investment any time soon because this approach would be probably limited, as I said, to regions where English is the official language.
    1.5 billion people isn't a bad market. I'm sure that's enough for return on investment. And I am sure when it takes off, other languages will be added.

    However because they will most likely be added in order of popularity, things like Spanish, Russian and Mandarin will get added first.

    Which does create a strange scenario, where services get to some places and not others.
    04-18-2017 04:19 AM
  20. Drael646464's Avatar
    Android is 8 years ahead of windows... The 10 windows phone fans think IT'S BEAUTIFUL and others are ugly reminds me of a poor man with no shoes and rejected one because he's used to walking shoe less.. I personally think one of the major drawbacks of wp is actually it's UI.. It's so ugly big fonts darkness everywhere the reason the general public rejected that sh"**t.. Generally android has widgets that people can setup to get info at glance but people don't use them alot and this should tell you that the home screen is just a gateway not the whole experience plus we have notifications for that purpose... You guys here live in the world of your imagination but just to let you know that android is beautiful just check most modern websites they use material design
    Wow. Tell us what you really feel :P hahaha!

    People brought android back when it was a battery saving black (Which personally I preferred), instead of googles current incarnation of white + patronising childlike doodles and cartoons.

    If windows bothers you so much, why not go to an android forum, like say, android central? Plenty of people here use android devices, and people don't generally go full hate mode on it, so its a weird fight your trying to pick.

    Samsung and Microsoft are friends from way back. They co-developed the amazing graphene oled screen. Google and Microsoft even work together, they hashed out network streaming compatibility.

    I don't get the angst.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-18-2017 at 07:02 AM.
    04-18-2017 04:21 AM
  21. nasznjoka's Avatar
    Apps are excuses.. The real deal is an ugly OS with very dull look
    04-18-2017 04:28 AM
  22. Drael646464's Avatar
    Apps are excuses.. The real deal is an ugly OS with very dull look
    -"Chinese people are astronauts. The true chicken is pineapple flavoured potato".

    Maybe its your virtual keyboard autocorrect, but the above sentence made roughly as much sense as your last one did IMO.

    Perhaps you could try that again?

    Or ..

    you could just go back to the land of your favourite UI design, over at android central, and yarn endlessly about how great it all is.

    You know, rather than look like someone looking to badly express supressed emotional issues like general life dissatisfaction by arguing about something as subjective and ultimately trivial as OS UI preference with strangers on the internet, via a forum about a topic you seem to have no interest in.

    Take your pick really, but trust me, its you that gets the bad end of the stick if you pick the wrong one.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-18-2017 at 07:09 AM.
    TgeekB and libra89 like this.
    04-18-2017 06:57 AM
  23. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    That would work very nicely for all the world regions where English is the main language being used. I'm Romanian. It would be amazing if Microsoft just made Cortana read, write and speak Romanian, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen in the next 5 years.
    5 years is a long time and machines can learn more and more by themselves. I'm pretty sure far more languages will be available within the next two or three years.
    04-18-2017 07:44 AM
  24. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Apps are excuses.. The real deal is an ugly OS with very dull look
    Look up "subjective" in a dictionary.
    libra89, aximtreo and Kevin Rush like this.
    04-18-2017 07:46 AM
  25. BrunoMG's Avatar
    I don't agree with w10m being a poor looks OS
    From the 3 (iOS, Android and w10m) I prefer w10m by far.

    Additionally I prefer live tiles much more than widgets that just look like fancy cartoons in the screen.
    Live tiles look very good.......notifications in them are the real problem that is not solved after all this time. This amazes me (on the bad side) because they worked very well in 8.1

    The problem with w10m is pretty much debated here....from lack of apps, to everlasting and not solved bugs, to faulty updates.......and these are MAJOR issues that led to a wonderful global market share of.....well...see for yourselves:



    Damn math.......always being annoyingly true........

    The looks is definitely not the problem.....I wish it was.....

    No need for Donna to tweet anything......nobody really cares what she says.......the numbers speak for themselves. She doesn't have to say a single beep!
    They show the job MS has been doing for the last couple of years in w10m.
    They keep saying they are working on greater things and that there is a light in the end of the tunnel.....
    Well.....newsflash people: that light is a train coming!
    Last edited by BrunoMG; 04-18-2017 at 01:06 PM.
    04-18-2017 10:42 AM
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