04-26-2017 07:28 PM
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  1. TgeekB's Avatar
    I see what you're saying. The problem is that everyone here is a Windows fan, but we all have different user needs that, for the moment, can or can't be filled by W10M depending on who you are. On one side, you have people like me who use lots of apps because they are convenient and often times quick and efficient at getting things done. It doesn't mean that I spend all my time in Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat. It just means that I like having apps. Nothing at all wrong with that. However, if you bring up the lack of apps in these threads, you are immediately labeled as being a social media junkie and it's implied that you're opinion is somehow less than the opinions of people who don't need or care to use apps. These people say things like they are more business minded or do more productive work. On the flip side, whenever I see people defend W10M by saying that they don't use apps or that you can use the browser as an app replacement, I think that they are just grabbing at straws in defense of an OS that has clearly lost the consumer market. I'm just as guilty as the other person. My point is, no matter how we describe our experiences with Windows phones, the numbers don't lie at the moment. The entire population of us would barely fill a large city compared to the populations of Android and Apple users. All of us that are still here are letting that fact and the fact that our expectations have been severely let down by MS get to us. When people get frustrated and desperate they choose sides and become even more convinced that their opinion is the right one. The forum here, like the current state of political affairs in the world, is demonstrating this behavior all the time. Truth is, MS can't afford to listen to us. They have to base their decision on the trajectory of Android's app store. They have to be studying human behavior. Asking questions about why apps are so popular, are there any dislikes about Apps, what can possibly replace an app? And it can't be the browser. Browsing is a web term. The young people that I teach have no use for browsers outside of my classroom, and those kiddos are MS's primary target if they go after consumers. Besides, apps always were convenient replacements for browsers. So the issues here in the forum are really moot. We don't have an app store as good as the competing mobile OSs do and nobody here has the solution if it only includes their own needs, wants, and usage habits...or those of whichever side they are on. MS has to meet all of our needs in order to compete, and they just haven't done that yet. The only thing we can do is wait and see what happens.
    Well said. I do think it depends on your perspective and if you're willing to use what works best for you. I do happen to believe using the browser works extremely well.
    Question about your students. Do you think, if MS cloud builds in the education sector, that students will take to the MS model?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    04-23-2017 09:51 AM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    I see what you're saying. The problem is that everyone here is a Windows fan, but we all have different user needs that, for the moment, can or can't be filled by W10M depending on who you are. On one side, you have people like me who use lots of apps because they are convenient and often times quick and efficient at getting things done. It doesn't mean that I spend all my time in Facebook or Instagram or Snapchat. It just means that I like having apps. Nothing at all wrong with that. However, if you bring up the lack of apps in these threads, you are immediately labeled as being a social media junkie and it's implied that you're opinion is somehow less than the opinions of people who don't need or care to use apps. These people say things like they are more business minded or do more productive work. On the flip side, whenever I see people defend W10M by saying that they don't use apps or that you can use the browser as an app replacement, I think that they are just grabbing at straws in defense of an OS that has clearly lost the consumer market. I'm just as guilty as the other person. My point is, no matter how we describe our experiences with Windows phones, the numbers don't lie at the moment. The entire population of us would barely fill a large city compared to the populations of Android and Apple users. All of us that are still here are letting that fact and the fact that our expectations have been severely let down by MS get to us. When people get frustrated and desperate they choose sides and become even more convinced that their opinion is the right one. The forum here, like the current state of political affairs in the world, is demonstrating this behavior all the time. Truth is, MS can't afford to listen to us. They have to base their decision on the trajectory of Android's app store. They have to be studying human behavior. Asking questions about why apps are so popular, are there any dislikes about Apps, what can possibly replace an app? And it can't be the browser. Browsing is a web term. The young people that I teach have no use for browsers outside of my classroom, and those kiddos are MS's primary target if they go after consumers. Besides, apps always were convenient replacements for browsers. So the issues here in the forum are really moot. We don't have an app store as good as the competing mobile OSs do and nobody here has the solution if it only includes their own needs, wants, and usage habits...or those of whichever side they are on. MS has to meet all of our needs in order to compete, and they just haven't done that yet. The only thing we can do is wait and see what happens.
    Its kind of interesting the comparison between windows 10 and android apps.

    I work with both OSs. Actually app wise they both have strengths. MS apps, Cortana, anything remotely connected to the stylus is better on windows. If you were an artist for example, you'd be better with windows 10 mobile by far. Many areas are similar. Even specialty apps like music writing, or games, there are enough decent games to get one by.

    For my mi band 2, there are more apps on android, but they are pretty buggy, and not that helpful. The one on windows works just as well as anything else. A lot of smart devices have third party apps.

    Then there are things like banking apps, or snapchat, or Spotify, where there are noticeable absences. In that whether current windows 10, or android would suit you does depend quite a bit on ones needs, and which apps, you personally use.

    The main reason, really we use apps over browsers is the tiny touch screen interface, and the speed on mobile networks. Apps are a little quicker, even on desktops, and the UI's tend to be better refined. Theoretically, as network speeds increase, and web coding improves, the difference disappates. For example, on my tablet I run the Spotify web app, the youtube web app etc, and they all run just as well as any other app. Any average person using my tablet would have no idea they were web apps and not regular apps really.

    I think whats really going to replace small screen touch apps however is multiple - bigger screen possibilitys via augmented reality and device convergence. Its slow to take off convergence, but there is an everyday reason not to have six devices that all do similar things in the family home; Money, the awkawardness of syncing, cloud use, set-up. I honestly believe that will slowly drive device convergence into the mainstream. People, at heart, want two or maybe three devices, not one of every catergory. As pragmatism kicks in over wow factor, it'll make more sense to buy a device with more than one role.

    And bigger screen apps, and scalable apps can be more complex. People use less apps, more full browser on a desktop. I use UWPs even on desktop, but I'd never use one for this site for example. Windows tabbing, full desktop sites, more involved UI - all those things emerge as you scale to bigger screen. Simply projecting a smartphone screen onto your wall, or 50 inch monitor, isn't going to cut anyone's sandwich.

    And device convergence for consumers plays in on the console too, and project scopio- between desktop gaming, and xbox, Microsoft actually dominates the gaming space. Bringing those together, and with onecore and the UWP platform proper - that's a window into mainstream consumers lives for mindshare and windows 10.

    The other thing that will drive the death of small screen apps, and indeed some existing profit models, like freemium advertising as a serious money spinner- voice. Neither of these things is as far off mainstream adoption as say, VR, AR, or foldable screens. Convergence and voice control - they are tangibly close.

    I also see us nearing the "peak" of smartphones. Where profits start to thin. I can imagine some serious effort from the other big players into new frontiers too, when this begins. Look at the Samsung tab, and the ipad pro (or the new plain "ipad") for examples of what it looks like when major players start to loose sales.

    I don't see small screen touch apps as an eternal advantage, at all, anymore than sybian apps, or terminal/dos programs. Things will always move. What matters is consumer buzz, and the money call to developers. Fortunately there are some good ways for MS to address the app gap, via bigger screened cheaper cellular connected devices with windows on arm, and windows cloud.

    Ultimately though, technology has become a fashion. Be ahead, or be square.

    When voice takes over, people will sit enviously and curiously on the bus, as they did with smartphones in 2008. Same with folding screens, at, vr. Kids, the kids you talk about don't really care about how things are achieved - they care about how their "leader" peers are achieving it, those early tech adopters. If one kid is playing with the lego, the other kid wants to. People are the same, at a kind of basic level.

    You want the boom adoption profits, and those early tech saavy kids attention, you don't really just want "more apps", you want something even if its limited, with a bit of flair. iPhone when it came out, didn't even have an app store. Amazon spot etc are selling, and they are basically useless novelty devices (especially compared to what voice should be capable of in a few years). Honestly those home devices are mostly a gimmick, as is the curved Samsung screen.

    Its not banking apps that drives consumerism, really. Smartphone users will talk passionately about devices meeting peoples needs - but we don't really need smartphones. Theres a "toy meets convenience" factor that plays as big as any lifechanging tool qualities, probably bigger.

    It's the cult of consumerism.

    In the meantime, use a windows smartphone, don't use a windows smartphone. It's all good, it's just a tool. Use bing if you don't wanna give money to google. Android itself isn't googles profit model. Or throw all your advertising ears at google, if you hate MS. Follow what you believe and don't let the little things bother you.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-23-2017 at 10:23 AM.
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    04-23-2017 10:02 AM
  3. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Thanks.

    I'd be 100% behind a push by our distinct towards the Windows cloud model. Google, unfortunately, got its claws into our classrooms a couple of years ago. I absolutely can't stand using the Chromebooks they bought into. Aside from being junk, the document programs are really poor in my opinion. The only thing I like is the sharing functionality, but Office has that as well. What's even more unfortunate is the fact that the company that writes the ACT state test has an app for Android that we use for testing. We could use the web browser on a PC just as easily, but the common public opinion is that apps are better, safer, etc, etc. I tell ya, Google is a crafty entity. The people in command definitely drank the Google koolaid way before the actual devices were delivered. Google even hosts our district email now. Jeeeez. 😠
    That's pretty much the main reason I've had to move to an Android device this year. After spending 6 years with Microsoft, it was a tough transition.
    TgeekB likes this.
    04-23-2017 10:13 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    Thanks.

    I'd be 100% behind a push by our distinct towards the Windows cloud model. Google, unfortunately, got its claws into our classrooms a couple of years ago. I absolutely can't stand using the Chromebooks they bought into. Aside from being junk, the document programs are really poor in my opinion. The only thing I like is the sharing functionality, but Office has that as well. What's even more unfortunate is the fact that the company that writes the ACT state test has an app for Android that we use for testing. We could use the web browser on a PC just as easily, but the common public opinion is that apps are better, safer, etc, etc. I tell ya, Google is a crafty entity. The people in command definitely drank the Google koolaid way before the actual devices were delivered. Google even hosts our district email now. Jeeeez.
    That's pretty much the main reason I've had to move to an Android device this year. After spending 6 years with Microsoft, it was a tough transition.
    Unfortunately people in education, and my mum is a teacher, don't make the soundest IT choices. They often pick up on consumer trends that might be temporary or in no way reflect universities or enterprise practices. I think schools like to think of themselves as progressive or adaptive in this regard, but it often means they are educating their students in technologies that have little real world application.

    I know a lot of schools use google products, chromebooks, google drive, google docs, and things like ipads. But the moment they step outside that world, they have to learn windows (or at least mac osx if they work in some niche fields) anyway.
    04-23-2017 10:30 AM
  5. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Yep. Totally agree. School districts are like giant 12 year olds easily swayed by glitz and glamour.
    Drael646464 and Guytronic like this.
    04-23-2017 10:40 AM
  6. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Keep being patient and wasting your money if u want

    Sent from Idol 4s
    I already bought my Lumia 950, and it's working very well and I'm very happy with it. The only "waste" I see is frequenting these forums proclaiming that something is dead and that there's no reason to continue investing in it. How is that not a waste of time and energy?
    04-23-2017 10:50 AM
  7. slivy58's Avatar
    I'll add a select few Windows Mobile non-existent, or soon to be defunct apps to the list...

    * Cannon Camera Connect... Connect, control, and access/transfer photos from my Canon camera wirelessly
    * Panasonic Image App... Connect, control, and access/transfer photos from my Panasonic camera wirelessly
    * Verbatim MediaShare Wireless... Access data wirelessly through a media hub
    * Mydlink Light... Access to my wireless security cameras
    * Shaw Free Range TV... Streaming TV content from my service provider
    * GasBuddy... Works as of now but soon to lose support for WM

    Trying to access Mydlink Light via browser results in "Unsupported Browser or Operating System Detected!". Sheesh, even get similar when trying to access certain, very well established companies w/sites in my country. Can't recall this ever being an issue on any other phone I've owned, and only came to light with the advent of W10M. So essentially a web browser isn't always the saviour in every instance.

    And one other point. Apps are usually designed to provide a cleaner, easier to use interface that a browser simply can't accomplish on such a small screen/device, offering the user a more pleasurable experience.
    Last edited by Elky64; 04-23-2017 at 11:20 AM.
    04-23-2017 10:53 AM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    I'll add a select few non-existent, or soon to be defunct apps to the list...

    * Cannon Camera Connect... Connect, control, and access/transfer photos from my Canon camera wirelessly
    * Panasonic Image App... Connect, control, and access/transfer photos from my Panasonic camera wirelessly
    * Verbatim MediaShare Wireless... Access data wirelessly through a media hub
    * Mydlink Light... Access to my wireless security cameras
    * Shaw Free Range TV... Streaming TV content from my service provider
    * GasBuddy... Works as of now but soon to lose support for WM

    Trying to access Mydlink Light via browser results in "Unsupported Browser or Operating System Detected!". Sheesh, even get similar when trying to access certain, very well established sites in my country. Can't recall this ever being an issue on any other phone I've owned, and only came to light with the advent of W10M.

    And one other point. Apps are usually designed to provide a cleaner, easier to use interface that a browser simply can't accomplish on such a small screen/device, offering the user a more pleasurable experience.
    BTW, are you saying none of those devices work with a windows PC? If so, that's pretty bunk. Wlan, dlna etc are standard network protocols, and shouldn't need any apps.

    Well, if this is in anyway helpful, for the cameras you could just get a wireless SD card adapter. You can pick em up real cheap on aliexpress, or buy one pre-cooked like:

    https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Flash...pUvbUpU3654952

    Again, shouldn't need any apps, dlna etc are standard network protocols, only apple has trouble with. All you should need is the IP address pumped into a file browser, whether on android or windows, and the username and password - once connected to the wifi itself (which with the above device has some kind of passthrough to the router which is handy).

    Never got much into local streaming much myself, I like local, wired if I have the choice. Even Bluetooth gets my goat with its glitches and stuttering.

    If its on a mobile, maybe the issue is the browser your using. You could always try another? (There's more than one browser uwp app)

    Agreed on the refined UI, and faster loading of apps. Use em, even on my desktop. Something like kodi, or Netflix for example, its better on a desktop than a browser. Won't argue with you there. Specially useful on small screens. Pity we have those small screens in a way. squinty little fiddly buggers.

    If your locally sharing media like movies, you might try a plex server. The plex UWP app is class, and it can also be made to work with kodi. Or you could just jam a USB stick/hard driver in your router, and hit the DLNA address (most wifi routers have a usb slot these days).
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-23-2017 at 11:25 AM.
    04-23-2017 11:06 AM
  9. slivy58's Avatar
    BTW, are you saying none of those devices work with a windows PC? If so, that's pretty bunk. Wlan, dlna etc are standard network protocols, and shouldn't need any apps.

    Well, if this is in anyway helpful, for the cameras you could just get a wireless SD card adapter. You can pick em up real cheap on aliexpress, or buy one pre-cooked like:

    https://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Flash...pUvbUpU3654954

    Again, shouldn't need any apps, dlna etc are standard network protocols, only apple has trouble with.

    If its on a mobile, maybe the issue is the browser your using. You could always try another?
    Sorry, guess I wasn't clear enough.This all pertains to Windows Mobile. As for the browser, tried multiples with exact same results on my 830, 650 and 950.
    04-23-2017 11:18 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    Sorry, guess I wasn't clear enough.This all pertains to Windows Mobile. As for the browser, tried multiples with exact same results on my 830, 650 and 950.
    Well, for the media sharing, there is always the ol' usb device into the wifi router, assuming yours has a usb slot. Pretty fail safe, standard DLNA streaming. Only works with set filetypes, and it does require some setup on the router settings usually.

    Usually when I am hitting DLNA services (not sure if yours are), I go via file explorer on android or windows, although I do recall some need a browser, because they have a web app at the other end, and that is all sorts of pain in the butt - I had a wifi router set-up once, that worked that way, and it didn't work properly with any browser at all. And similar with some file sharing devices. I guess sometimes they want to give access to settings, not just files, but it can be a real pain in the neck, on any platform if its not coded well for the browser (and browsers are supposed to work the same, but they are all different, mobile browsers being well behind)

    Even the apps on those things can be buggy - often ios gets the preferred treatment in apps with streaming. Probably because it has no microsd option, lol.

    You probably don't want to spend more money setting up a plex server and using the plex uwp. But it is a pretty neat way to access streamed media from a server on a windows device. A cheap little all in one with some decent storage plugged in, and that lovely app on the other end, its your own personal Netflix.
    04-23-2017 11:31 AM
  11. aximtreo's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile had become a internal joke at Microsoft now . This is just terrible

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Maybe in the end, the joke will be on MS when past loyal users don't accept what MS has to offer in the future.
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-23-2017 11:34 AM
  12. slivy58's Avatar
    Well, for the media sharing, there is always the ol' usb device into the wifi router, assuming yours has a usb slot. Pretty fail safe, standard DLNA streaming. Only works with set filetypes, and it does require some setup on the router settings usually.

    Usually when I am hitting DLNA services (not sure if yours are), I go via file explorer on android or windows, although I do recall some need a browser, because they have a web app at the other end, and that is all sorts of pain in the butt - I had a wifi router set-up once, that worked that way, and it didn't work properly with any browser at all. And similar with some file sharing devices. I guess sometimes they want to give access to settings, not just files, but it can be a real pain in the neck, on any platform if its not coded well for the browser (and browsers are supposed to work the same, but they are all different, mobile browsers being well behind)

    Even the apps on those things can be buggy - often ios gets the preferred treatment in apps with streaming. Probably because it has no microsd option, lol.

    You probably don't want to spend more money setting up a plex server and using the plex uwp. But it is a pretty neat way to access streamed media from a server on a windows device. A cheap little all in one with some decent storage plugged in, and that lovely app on the other end, its your own personal Netflix.
    Money, not an issue. Alternatives, sure but why, and what does that say about the platform? If you have to spend more money to accomplish the same feats built into the other platforms (mainly due to app availability), then something is wrong with this picture.

    My point being, WM falls short for many, especially those wanting/requiring more out of their mobile device. Not unrealistic to expect more, especially in today's world.
    EliteMikes likes this.
    04-23-2017 12:19 PM
  13. slivy58's Avatar
    Maybe in the end, the joke will be on MS when past loyal users don't accept what MS has to offer in the future.
    Well if you have some concrete info that can quash all the negativity (past/present) surrounding the platform, and is more than wishful thinking or personal hope, please enlighten us as we're all ears.
    04-23-2017 12:28 PM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    Money, not an issue. Alternatives, sure but why, and what does that say about the platform? If you have to spend more money to accomplish the same feats built into the other platforms (mainly due to app availability), then something is wrong with this picture.

    My point being, WM falls short for many, especially those wanting/requiring more out of their mobile device. Not unrealistic to expect more, especially in today's world.
    Well to be fair, plex offers more functionality than a media sharing device. You can for example access the server remotely, sync content for offline access, access other services like youtube, organise your media. Theres an app for every type of device that exists. Its a pretty complete package for media collectors.

    I've tried those wireless hardrives and share devices. They are pretty clunky next to what plex can do.
    04-23-2017 12:44 PM
  15. slivy58's Avatar
    Well to be fair, plex offers more functionality than a media sharing device. You can for example access the server remotely, sync content for offline access, access other services like youtube, organise your media. Theres an app for every type of device that exists. Its a pretty complete package for media collectors.

    I've tried those wireless hardrives and share devices. They are pretty clunky next to what plex can do.
    You're too focused on one entity and that couldn't be further from my point. And how does plex resolve the issue of me transferring images from my dedicated cameras to my phone out in the wild wirelessly? Basically it doesn't if I'm using a WP.
    04-23-2017 01:13 PM
  16. aximtreo's Avatar
    Sorry, I'm at a loss as well about what MS has to offer us in the near and distant future. I've jumped in and out so many times now my wife is calling me Jack.
    04-23-2017 04:27 PM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    Sorry, I'm at a loss as well about what MS has to offer us in the near and distant future. I've jumped in and out so many times now my wife is calling me Jack.
    Well, since its in the future, you'll have to wait and see.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    aximtreo likes this.
    04-23-2017 05:15 PM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    You're too focused on one entity and that couldn't be further from my point. And how does plex resolve the issue of me transferring images from my dedicated cameras to my phone out in the wild wirelessly? Basically it doesn't if I'm using a WP.
    You said "Alternatives, sure but why, and what does that say about the platform? If you have to spend more money to accomplish the same feats built into the other platforms "

    Plex is not the "same feat" as a media sharing device. It's quite a bit better. A media sharing device can't do half the things plex can. Nor in fact are any of those capabilities "built into other OS's". Third parties who made your devices wrote the software for android, and likely iOS, and neglected windows 10 mobile.

    I was responding to the content of your statements and offering you a few solutions. It's pretty natural for me to problem solve.

    This would be my expectation---

    Products I buy will work with the operating systems and devices they are advertised to, and maybe some they aren't if there is third party software and they are popular enough.

    You know, what a product claims it can do, it can do. You get what's on the box, pretty much.

    My expectation would also be that a product with less that 1% marketshare, will only get any decent support, and still not great, in markets it is popular in. Like say, japan, Europe, or Australia. People are not going to code for small markets, its not economical.

    Thusly people who write UWPs, will largely be writing them for PC and tablet. Mobile will be an afterthought.

    If someone mislead you and told you those things work with windows 10 mobile, or windows 10 mobile has every app under the sun, I think you'd have recourse to return it.

    A lot of people come here for technical advice, and its pretty intuitive to suggest solutions for me, when people bring up problems.

    But if you wanted to vent, I suppose you are doing that. But maybe just switch to another phone OS if you don't like it yeah?

    Go buy and android phone.

    Same goes for anyone else - if you don't like a given product - don't use it. It's not too complicated as far as I can see it. Nothing MS themselves can do about whether Panasonic or whomever deem it economic to code for windows 10 mobile.

    You could also register your desires with those companies.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-23-2017 at 09:31 PM.
    04-23-2017 08:55 PM
  19. bing722's Avatar
    Ebay, PayPal, chase bank, ....theres plenty of app leaving every week

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Popular apps like Spotify, Waze, Viber, and Runtastic have gone into maintenance mode and won't receive updates. Amazon became a web page wrapper. AmEx supposedly became a UWP app, but it disappeared from the store. The Opera Mini browser is gone. Many 8 and 8.1 apps like CVS and Realtor haven't been updated in ages and don't work correctly.
    slivy58 and libra89 like this.
    04-23-2017 09:00 PM
  20. slivy58's Avatar
    You said "Alternatives, sure but why, and what does that say about the platform? If you have to spend more money to accomplish the same feats built into the other platforms "

    Plex is not the "same feat" as a media sharing device. It's quite a bit better. A media sharing device can't do half the things plex can. Nor in fact are any of those capabilities "built into other OS's". Third parties who made your devices wrote the software for android, and likely iOS, and neglected windows 10 mobile.

    I was responding to the content of your statements and offering you a few solutions. It's pretty natural for me to problem solve.

    This would be my expectation---

    Products I buy will work with the operating systems and devices they are advertised to, and maybe some they aren't if there is third party software and they are popular enough.

    You know, what a product claims it can do, it can do. You get what's on the box, pretty much.

    My expectation would also be that a product with less that 1% marketshare, will only get any decent support, and still not great, in markets it is popular in. Like say, japan, Europe, or Australia. People are not going to code for small markets, its not economical.

    Thusly people who write UWPs, will largely be writing them for PC and tablet. Mobile will be an afterthought.

    If someone mislead you and told you those things work with windows 10 mobile, or windows 10 mobile has every app under the sun, I think you'd have recourse to return it.

    A lot of people come here for technical advice, and its pretty intuitive to suggest solutions for me, when people bring up problems.

    But if you wanted to vent, I suppose you are doing that. But maybe just switch to another phone OS if you don't like it yeah?

    Go buy and android phone.

    Same goes for anyone else - if you don't like a given product - don't use it. It's not too complicated as far as I can see it. Nothing MS themselves can do about whether Panasonic or whomever deem it economic to code for windows 10 mobile.

    You could also register your desires with those companies.
    Appreciate your efforts but not so sure this thread was begging for technical assistance. Last I looked it was about WM, the fact MSFT was adding features/apps to Android and iOS while disregarding their own platform. I was responding to that then stating facts from my perspective and experience... WM does fall short in many respects (for me), apps are now becoming a big issue, and products once supported no longer are.

    I've been ridding the Windows phone/Phone wave(s) since 2012 and as you said, yes it was an opportunity to vent. Is it going to make a difference, highly unlikely. Did it make me feel better, somewhat. In the end we were just throwing in our 2-cents worth onto the pile.

    And then we get into the facts that some of what I mentioned, DID work back in the 8.0/8.1 days and partially into the retrenchment w/the advent of W10M. Now they don't which tells me the platform is moving backwards and is steadily heading downwards.

    As an FYI... I use all three platforms and have been for years, hard to substantiate claims if we haven't... Of course these are just my opinions/experiences as many others will differ.
    04-24-2017 05:17 AM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    Appreciate your efforts but not so sure this thread was begging for technical assistance. Last I looked it was about WM, the fact MSFT was adding features/apps to Android and iOS while disregarding their own platform. I was responding to that then stating facts from my perspective and experience... WM does fall short in many respects (for me), apps are now becoming a big issue, and products once supported no longer are.

    I've been ridding the Windows phone/Phone wave(s) since 2012 and as you said, yes it was an opportunity to vent. Is it going to make a difference, highly unlikely. Did it make me feel better, somewhat. In the end we were just throwing in our 2-cents worth onto the pile.

    And then we get into the facts that some of what I mentioned, DID work back in the 8.0/8.1 days and partially into the retrenchment w/the advent of W10M. Now they don't which tells me the platform is moving backwards and is steadily heading downwards.

    As an FYI... I use all three platforms and have been for years, hard to substantiate claims if we haven't... Of course these are just my opinions/experiences as many others will differ.
    Windows mobile has been in decline long before windows 10, it's decline of marketshare began the literal moment the iPhone came out.

    Look at the numbers, its pretty clear that MS lost phones the instant the iPhone was released. It never had a chance as a "me too" proposition.

    Nobody disputes that marketshare is in decline, or that UWP apps are being written primarily for tablet, ultrabook, hybrid and desktop markets now, rather than the now less than 1% global marketshare windows phone users. Those things are all true, just like when its cloudy and rainy, its cloudy and rainy - but some folk want to talk about that more than others (and yeah, spose everyone needs a vent!).

    Microsofts vision from the get go with windows 10, was an OS that was _the same_ on every platform. Software that ran the same on every platform.

    Mobile 10 never was 'the same', you can't run the same software. It was never actually part of microsofts openly pronounced vision.

    Onecore and cshell is the plan, always has been.

    Mobile 10, is more like a holding ground for UI features, like an open beta, while MS performs the herculean tasks of doing what nobody has ever done before - making a single OS that runs your phone, your console, whatever.

    Because they have very ambitious plans, and some real tangible results of that plan come out this year and next - their ambitious plans just involve taking back OS global marketshare, the current smartphone Windows OS is a very background minor concern.

    A market to return to focusing on later. A quite charitable level of maintenaince considering the dropped rock of bb10.

    I btw am a blackberry user. I had the curve, and q5. That gets no updates, no love, and the store is 1/3 of the size of the windows store. There is zero future for a QNX based phone OS. They completely changed the OS, and then went to android lol. There's still hope for MS though. That's a company that has cashflow, and a vision. A good one if you ask me.

    If their plans go really well, maybe android, ios, maybe even osx, will be relics along with windows 10 mobile one day. It's actually quite possible, cards played right.

    Myself, I strongly believe developers will come in their droves to a single unified system across devices. That's obvious to me, because that's what developers have always wanted - to write one set of code for a massive diverse audience pool, rather than one for each OS and platform, with reduced audiences and increased coding hours. A singular system with complete easy connectivity. One OS to rule them all. Write an app for console, have it work on phone, pc, smartwatch, hololens and tablet.

    I feel, in my heart, MS has a real shot at the machine learning wars. I think just like when apple dumped most of its product line, and focused on the future (which turned into the ipod, the iPhone and the ipad) that sometimes in tech, the means are justified by the ends, sometimes the payoff, isn't immediate. That good things in tech can take time.

    But you know I could be wrong.

    But I am on the side of thinking I'd personally much rather MS was doing what it is doing, building a future, having a big picture mentality. I would definitely rather MS was working on onecore as a vision than flagging a dead horse. Making a better horse yes, flagging a dead one, no.

    I guess, like you have to accept that windows 10 mobile, is what it is, I just have to accept that a lot of people have things to complain about MS's vision and direction, particularly mobile and don't see the upsides.

    Its definitely a downer vibe, and not a place I come from at all. My excitement about Microsoft comes directly from Nadella's steve jobs like vision for the company, one about values and direction. And yet the mobile disappointment brigade, they don't particularly like that at all. While people outside this forum are saying "is Microsoft the new apple? The new innovator?", people inside here are chanting "windows phone is dead" (which it is, but only eventually, and only to be replaced by something better).

    Somethings are quite particular to smartphone enthusiast communities, all this brand rivalry, pride, competition and focus on the right now, like quarterly marketshare, or whether a device is made our of glass or aluminium. These proclamations of permenancy remind me of those within fashion. How many times have beards been in and out, but every time, they'll say they are dead. I remember one of the chants of the ninetines was "Rock is dead", and then the naughties "dance music is dead". Both are doing quite fine of course.

    Oh, did you know someone killed someone in Europe over a NVidia versus AMD argument? Sometimes I think people are very strange. But look at my beautiful ramblings, I am certainly no exception.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-24-2017 at 06:59 AM.
    Blackadder_100 likes this.
    04-24-2017 06:08 AM
  22. etphoto's Avatar
    I have heard MS's Dona Sarkar (@donasarkar) in two different podcasts over the last week. Both times she uses the statement on her MS badge as proof on how MS views their goals when addressing it's customer base. The statement (in part) "Empowering Everyone". I tweeted her a few days ago "Empowering everyone unless you're a WP user than you are thrown out with the trash".

    MS will be washing it's hands of WM10 in the somewhat near future I fear.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    04-24-2017 06:54 AM
  23. Sedp23's Avatar
    All of which I have pinned to my start screen and use every day without issue. Sure, it would be nice if they had kept the apps alive but it hasn't affected me negatively at all.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    U can't get notifications from chase when you receive/direct deposit hits, or cash checks with the website...

    U can't get notifications for bidding on the eBay site

    And u can't get notifications for PayPal either by pinning it to the start screen

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    04-24-2017 11:27 AM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    U can't get notifications from chase when you receive/direct deposit hits, or cash checks with the website...

    U can't get notifications for bidding on the eBay site

    And u can't get notifications for PayPal either by pinning it to the start screen

    Sent from Idol 4s
    Yes you can and I do, by email.

    Look. I appreciate your viewpoint. Its different from mine and that's OK. All I know is my life is no less convenient because I use WM, in fact, its more because I have compatibility between devices. I'm glad there are choices and we all get to use what we feel is best for us. I'm going to continue to support MS, not get into hate mongering, and enjoy looking towards the future. I'm done being talked into things I don't need so other people can become wealthy. Let me give you another example. For years I was with AT&T and paid about $90 a month for service. I got into a conversation on a similar forum about MVNO's and how you save money. I argued you don't get the same service/experience over and over again until one day I tried Cricket. That was a couple years ago and now I pay $35 per month and have never noticed a difference and I save over $650 a year. No one will talk me into going back to AT&T.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Scienceguy Labs likes this.
    04-24-2017 03:48 PM
  25. Rambalac's Avatar
    * Panasonic Image App... Connect, control, and access/transfer photos from my Panasonic camera wirelessly
    For Panasonic you can try my GMaster app ;)
    slivy58 likes this.
    04-26-2017 09:19 AM
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