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  1. DaQuantumFro's Avatar
    HoloLens they pump a lot more work in but Mixed reality is a jumbled mess in terms of norms and direction
    04-25-2017 08:59 PM
  2. Mark Richey's Avatar
    I do agree, using an old Nexus 5x now.....but.....it is not the phone I wanted and many of the reasons relate to Windows Phone and the 950. I am waiting to get an unlocked Sony Xperia....

    1) Camera button!
    2) Improved superior camera
    3) Expandable memory

    I am already loaded with MS apps on my Android. pleasantly surprised. And my LG Urbane does most of what my Band 2 did.

    But I will always miss my live tiles, the old Windows Phone 7 Hubs were a superior navigation and I still find myself trying to swipe to other menus. I finally got Groove Music loaded, but need the MicroSD to free myself when WiFi is not available.

    So to be honest, with new phones still coming out with the Snapdragon 820, what is outdated on the 950/950XL? And I have swapped out the battery when I needed extra juice. Many Android users would kill for that option.
    04-25-2017 09:30 PM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    That is complete BS from MS as any and everyone knows that in order to gather interest or garner it that there has to be something that peaks the consumer's interests. Had MS put more effort into the OS then all the constant marketshare talk would be null and void because there would be continued interest and as such the devs would've been updating and creating apps for the OS. There's no one in the history of business that will create for a non-existing consumer base. Who at MS actually have degrees in commonsense? WHO!!! All MS had to do was to make the latest update to the Windows10 Mobile OS a true creator's update by bringing more functionality to it and bring back gestures, tweaking the home screen tiles, bringing font style change system wide along with making the OS feel truly like "Windows 10" with it's fluidity and speed. That's all MS had to do and the interest would have started to grow.

    Did either Google or Apple query market share when they started or did they build and build and improve and improve to get the market share to where it is now. So what's the %$#@ issue MS?
    Yeah, apple did. They spent quite a number of years cutting costs, and minimising things, abandoning products while they waited for the next big thing, the ipod. Responding to a failure, by accepting it, re-trenching, pivoting, in market is a massive part of apples history.

    I'm always surprised that people don't know that as common knowledge, but I guess I am old, lol.
    raycpl likes this.
    04-25-2017 11:03 PM
  4. darrell reimer's Avatar
    I LOVE my 950 XL! Camera is amazing; battery life is awesome; great screen; expandable memory; iris scanner; double tap to unlock AND lock! Absolutely no complaints. I don't feel the 'app gap'. I've got a Galaxy S5 sitting on the corner shelf that i keep up to date and compare with my phone. Even with Arrow launcher, it is nothing compared to the Windows 10 start screen. No dark theme. No live tiles; the launchers that try to copy live tiles are terrible. I have almost the same apps on my S5 as i do on my 950 XL. I don't need all the 'missing' windows phone apps. I just pin the mobile web site pages to my start screen, and they work just as well as an app. I pulled out my old iPhone 4 to compare screen size; my XL screen seems almost twice the size. Back in the old days, you had to have apps; the screens were so small. Now, my 950 XL is almost like a small tablet compared to them; i can use the mobile web sites for my transit, banking, mobility provider and all sorts of others; i don't need the apps.
    The 'specialty' apps (for my grocery, pizza, and other local stuff) in the Google play store get terrible reviews; mostly 2 out of 5 stars. The adds in media paint a one-sided picture. I'm super happy where i am!
    04-25-2017 11:22 PM
  5. monedetoune's Avatar
    So to be honest, with new phones still coming out with the Snapdragon 820, what is outdated on the 950/950XL? And I have swapped out the battery when I needed extra juice. Many Android users would kill for that option.
    smartphones has reached its theoretical wall.

    android is moving towards adding more functions, exceeding of those of the core smartphone functions to its base os.

    ios having a great library of apps that offers additional function, is happy to stay where it is.

    windows mobile is torn between being android and apple - mostly because of the perception and expectations given by its own users. lets be real here, nobody cares about windows phone, let alone talk about it, except for us, the small group of people known as the windows phone/mobile users.
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-25-2017 11:39 PM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    With all due respect, I do believe that android/ios offer a better user experience hence this is why its adopted more readily than windows phone, not everyone wants to take a chance with an os that cannot support their needs (snapchat??). However you are right regarding advertising.
    For this to be true, the average smartphone consumer would have had to try every smartphone OS. I don't really see major differences between smartphone OSs. bb10 had, and has better touch gestures, its a breeze to use. The hub as a centralised messaging platform, was pretty much perfect from the get go. Maps are still more fluid/better traffic predicition to this day. Least popular operating system ever.

    As for apps, the iPhone sold like hotcakes before it even had an appstore. Amazon tablets sell well, terrible app selection. People pretty much brought it before they even used one.

    Lazer disc was better quality than dvd. Beta max better quality than VHS. I think people underestimate the influence of good marketing, pricing, and the easily lead/follower nature of most people and a whole bunch of other factors.

    Phones are (increasingly less, as they are tbh pretty boring) status symbols. So some folks go in for shiny and gaudy. MS should have used its xbox image for consumers, or even its new creators imagine, not its stuff business image. Business aint sexy unless it involves crack and hookers.

    I always hear this user experience thing trotted around, but as much as the concept is useful for developers, it seems more like marketing the way a lot of people use it.
    04-25-2017 11:45 PM
  7. Guytronic's Avatar
    smartphones has reached its theoretical wall.

    Android is moving towards adding more functions, exceeding of those of the core smartphone functions to its base os.

    iOS having a great library of apps that offers additional function, is happy to stay where it is.

    Windows Mobile is torn between being android and apple - mostly because of the perception and expectations given by its own users. lets be real here, nobody cares about windows phone, let alone talk about it, except for us, the small group of people known as the windows phone/mobile users.
    A most relevant reply that most will casually dismiss.
    Astounding truth.
    Drael646464 and MrockNroll like this.
    04-26-2017 01:23 AM
  8. froi francisco's Avatar
    all points to Microsoft's dedication with their mobile platform. perhaps their saying it lately that they are "committed with mobile" this is due to the fact that they have another plan in place to reboot the mobile platform AGAIN. but looking back, aside from marketing, I felt they didn't invested that much for mobile. Granted that they invested with Nokia but where is it now? They are one of the few companies that has billions of dollars but couldn't provide their mobile platform the needed funding (marketing, devs, fund companies to make apps). #justmy2cents
    04-26-2017 01:24 AM
  9. hemanlive's Avatar
    I think I can point fingers on what has gone wrong with windows phones leading to current situation where it is as good as dead barring the life support in terms of regular updates (even that is going down now!)
    MS never really put its efforts and money into gaining market shares. It wanted to compete with Apple. That in itself is not bad, if you want to build the 'ultimate mobile device'. But given that you are a new entrant into the market which is a duopoly, then you got to take some drastic measures. I am talking about subsidizing the phones to entice users to come and 'try out' this new phone OS. Even with the kind of entry level pricing of Lumias (though the specs were quite basic too, and in that sense the pricing was not aggressive at all!) windows mobile got to nearly 10% market share in Europe and was still doing OK in US, LATAM and APAC. What was required back then was further pumping of money to keep coming with even better devices and even lower prices just to take that market share to 20% or more. That would have resulted in paving up the app-gap, which by the way at its lowest during that time. instead MS believed in comparing with iPhone and how much is that charged and believed that we are still charging less, to tally ignoring the delta that existed in apps, which is the biggest reason people were not willing to pick a windows phone at all.
    Instead MS decided to write off its phone business altogether. The developers began fleeing and so did the users. Now it is at its very end. Even with the super phone aka the Surface Phone, there are very little chances of windows being available on phones in coming few years.
    04-26-2017 01:51 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    smartphones has reached its theoretical wall.

    android is moving towards adding more functions, exceeding of those of the core smartphone functions to its base os.

    ios having a great library of apps that offers additional function, is happy to stay where it is.

    windows mobile is torn between being android and apple - mostly because of the perception and expectations given by its own users. lets be real here, nobody cares about windows phone, let alone talk about it, except for us, the small group of people known as the windows phone/mobile users.
    Yeah I think smartphones hit that wall pretty quick. Problem is development money and what people really want from a phone. People will either pay nothing, and get ads, or pay 3-4 bucks for an app. So you get pretty shallow development. 2.8 million apps, but not that much actual power in any of it.

    PC desktop by comparison people will spend 100+ on a game, or hundreds, or even thousands for specialised software. They want that complexity, and they pay for it.

    So while you do get new crowdsourcing applications, share economies, different ways of using GPSs and databases, smartphones actually hit their software limit pretty quick, primarily because its a small screen, with simple applications, and the only real money on it software wise, is either AAA success, or advertising.

    iOS is slightly better in this regard because of the premium nature of the products, and the odd enterprise/govt development. But not by a wide margin.

    And as you say, google is trying to pick up the slack by doing all the core coding themselves, expanding the phones function by using their own money. I'm honestly not sure how smart an investment that is. Google maps might make sense, as does google docs, but past a certain point, your disabling your internal market, part of what draws people to the platform.

    Google assistant, if voice actually took off, would threaten googles main profit model.

    That's part of why I have a lot of confidence windows as a hybrid OS. Its practically easier to create a system that scale down power and complexity, than create a system that adds power and complexity.

    What google seems intent on doing, is gradually replacing its app market, with itself, in open agknowledgement that otherwise the software quality will never be good enough. iOS seems to float on with its slightly higher third party app quality, hoping that one day, people will just spend more and more and it will go up.

    I guess the every day user doesn't notice much. But over time, other than 'new shiny, pretty', the motivation for device turnover and increased hardware power is pretty pragmatically thin next to say, a gaming PC, or a windows tablet, or most other modern tech.

    At the same time we approach market saturation, and negative growth is occurring in mature markets. Tablets for both Samsung and apple have been in a downward slide, for years, while windows climbs - probably because of these very software development limits.

    It feels to me like, smartphones are kind of a wave that will crash, long before the next big thing replaces it. Limited by one of the things that made them popular- freemium models, and coffee priced software. Nothing major will happen, people will just not bother to upgrade until their phone breaks, and buy a cheaper or midrange model when they do. But that must have, high device turn over, high adoption, premium "wow" "yay" was the whole thing driving the boom. Its that same "meh", that lead PC's to slow down (which co-incidentaly are in an upgrade cycle now).

    Those are probably the same forces that will eventually drive device convergence too. And of course the death nail will be new input methods, output methods and form factors, which all lie on the horizon - but I feel like the wave will crash probably this year or next, or the beginning of it.

    Not without its benefits. The current smartphone has shown us the power of combining GPS, LTE and databases for share economies, crowdsourcing, navigation, social messaging and more. Whatever comes next, will take these and add to them.
    04-26-2017 01:59 AM
  11. Hoangboy's Avatar
    Just switched from android to to Windows Mobile 10 with a nice Lumia 950 xl. I'm going to be blunt, I can't see why Windows phone is having any problems at all. The OS is great. Windows Mobile 10 is amazing. Easy, fast, feeling like Windows on my PC. I kinda can't see why its not doing so good. Now being that my last Windows phone was a dell venue pro witch was WP7, I have missed a lot. I don't know all the dark times. But as someone who I's coming fresh to the new current WP10. It owns. Great hand set. The switch coming from a galaxy s4 was very easy. I got basically everything my old phone had.

    This kinda make me ask, why is WP having such troubled times, and has such a bad rap? Microsoft should be purring everything into this. Not trying do do a 3rd time WP reboot/reset. This OS is great, its got some much potential. If they really tried I could see them, one day, being 15% to 20% of the phone market possibly. Microsoft should be rolling out updates for this OS every week. Is Microsoft not trying or something? Everyone thinks this OS is dead witch is really sad.
    It's weird that you feel the W10 Mobile is fast. I have now on my hand 3 phones, a Lumia 950 with Creator Update, a Galaxy S6 with Nougat 7.0, an iPhone 6 with iOS 10.3.1, what I feel is the Galaxy is the fastest response of those 3, iOS is the most reliable and stable, the Lumia 950 sadly is at the same time not as fast nor stable.
    04-26-2017 03:16 AM
  12. Xanc6's Avatar
    Question to 950XL owners. I have a 950 XL about 2 years old now. I recently purchased 2 MS spare batteries for my phone.
    When device is fully charged and tuned to the max (so battery hungry apps "never allowed I'm background"). I get until 5 p.m. and then device is at 15%. What do you think time to replace battery?
    04-26-2017 03:42 AM
  13. nasznjoka's Avatar
    Yeah I think smartphones hit that wall pretty quick. Problem is development money and what people really want from a phone. People will either pay nothing, and get ads, or pay 3-4 bucks for an app. So you get pretty shallow development. 2.8 million apps, but not that much actual power in any of it.

    PC desktop by comparison people will spend 100+ on a game, or hundreds, or even thousands for specialised software. They want that complexity, and they pay for it.

    So while you do get new crowdsourcing applications, share economies, different ways of using GPSs and databases, smartphones actually hit their software limit pretty quick, primarily because its a small screen, with simple applications, and the only real money on it software wise, is either AAA success, or advertising.

    iOS is slightly better in this regard because of the premium nature of the products, and the odd enterprise/govt development. But not by a wide margin.

    And as you say, google is trying to pick up the slack by doing all the core coding themselves, expanding the phones function by using their own money. I'm honestly not sure how smart an investment that is. Google maps might make sense, as does google docs, but past a certain point, your disabling your internal market, part of what draws people to the platform.

    Google assistant, if voice actually took off, would threaten googles main profit model.

    That's part of why I have a lot of confidence windows as a hybrid OS. Its practically easier to create a system that scale down power and complexity, than create a system that adds power and complexity.

    What google seems intent on doing, is gradually replacing its app market, with itself, in open agknowledgement that otherwise the software quality will never be good enough. iOS seems to float on with its slightly higher third party app quality, hoping that one day, people will just spend more and more and it will go up.

    I guess the every day user doesn't notice much. But over time, other than 'new shiny, pretty', the motivation for device turnover and increased hardware power is pretty pragmatically thin next to say, a gaming PC, or a windows tablet, or most other modern tech.

    At the same time we approach market saturation, and negative growth is occurring in mature markets. Tablets for both Samsung and apple have been in a downward slide, for years, while windows climbs - probably because of these very software development limits.

    It feels to me like, smartphones are kind of a wave that will crash, long before the next big thing replaces it. Limited by one of the things that made them popular- freemium models, and coffee priced software. Nothing major will happen, people will just not bother to upgrade until their phone breaks, and buy a cheaper or midrange model when they do. But that must have, high device turn over, high adoption, premium "wow" "yay" was the whole thing driving the boom. Its that same "meh", that lead PC's to slow down (which co-incidentaly are in an upgrade cycle now).

    Those are probably the same forces that will eventually drive device convergence too. And of course the death nail will be new input methods, output methods and form factors, which all lie on the horizon - but I feel like the wave will crash probably this year or next, or the beginning of it.

    Not without its benefits. The current smartphone has shown us the power of combining GPS, LTE and databases for share economies, crowdsourcing, navigation, social messaging and more. Whatever comes next, will take these and add to them.
    Microsoft fanboys have really myopic perception of the smartphone.. I wonder why? Is it because MS has failed at it or? Tell you what, the power of the smartphone is not even 20% exploited.. There's so much a smartphone can do only time will tell... I see maybe in the next 30 years the smartphone will be controlling almost everything in our lives... It's begins and ends with it...
    04-26-2017 03:53 AM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    It's weird that you feel the W10 Mobile is fast. I have now on my hand 3 phones, a Lumia 950 with Creator Update, a Galaxy S6 with Nougat 7.0, an iPhone 6 with iOS 10.3.1, what I feel is the Galaxy is the fastest response of those 3, iOS is the most reliable and stable, the Lumia 950 sadly is at the same time not as fast nor stable.
    Well objectively, the ios system has more crashes than android, afaik. At least that was the case the last time I looked.
    04-26-2017 04:22 AM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    Microsoft fanboys have really myopic perception of the smartphone.. I wonder why? Is it because MS has failed at it or? Tell you what, the power of the smartphone is not even 20% exploited.. There's so much a smartphone can do only time will tell... I see maybe in the next 30 years the smartphone will be controlling almost everything in our lives... It's begins and ends with it...
    If you want to actually address any of the points I made about the limitations of development funding in the smartphone market, I'll be here. In the mean time facts speak for themselves- desktop browsers are html5 compatible, extension compatible, smartphone browsers are not. There is nothing of development wise generally that compares to desktop (or windows on tablet)

    If you expect big money to fund real power, smartphone users will have to dish up more than three bucks, or watching a few ads for it. What you are expecting is quality programming on broadcast tv. Money for nothing and your chicks for free.

    Mobile oriented development is great. Its brought us share economies, and useful local databases, better social messaging. But it's limited like everything by dollar bills. When you have one market paying fifty cents per license, and another one hundred, it's pretty clear who gets the depth.

    PS, in case you mistook me, I've never used windows mobile in my life. I work with windows 10, and android for a living. Been into tech since the vic20. And don't call me biased because I hate apples closed system, prefer android customisation and access to the system, but I'll openly admit their software is better than androids, even though I prefer android.

    If anyones the fanboy here it's you. I can list something I like about every OS there is available. Can you?
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-26-2017 at 05:02 AM.
    04-26-2017 04:25 AM
  16. nasznjoka's Avatar
    If you want to actually address any of the points I made about the limitations of development funding in the smartphone market, I'll be here. In the mean time facts speak for themselves- desktop browsers are html5 compatible, extension compatible, smartphone browsers are not. There is nothing of development wise generally that compares to desktop.

    You'll literally never get adobe photoshop or illustrator for smartphone, and that's obvious, and I'd probably stake my life on it. You can order a pizza, or a cab, and honestly, sincerely, that's great.

    But if you expect big money to fund real power, smartphone users will have to dish up more than three bucks, or watching a few ads for it. What you are expecting is quality programming on broadcast tv. Money for nothing and your chicks for free.

    I've never used a windows 10 mobile device _in my life_, and I work with android and windows 10 (home pro) as a job.

    I was pretty wowed by android like you at first. Then the freemium quality development and buggy, shallow programming got old real fast. In terms of software quality, power and depth - android is second rate. ios beats it. Windows 10 is lightyears ahead. And that's a simple reflection of the marker. Smartphone users actually cringe at the idea of paying four bucks. Desktop users will pay over a hundred if the quality delivers.

    Its not a reflection on android. Android is a nice lightweight os, with a simplistic, secure, but flexible focus. It's more stable than ios too. I like it. But its, as a marketplace, driver by smartphone users. And they don't pay. They want their cake and eat it too.

    As much as I hate apples closed model. I'd pick them for software quality. If it wasn't for google's efforts in core apps, android would be well behind the curve.

    Smartphones are getting old in mature markets too, like I said. Slow device turnover, lost growth. The wave crashes, next year or this. The growth turns.

    Next things will be better, google and apple included.
    Agreed about it being limited for now in terms of software quality and it's a good thing it is limited cause that's the power of it I just pointed out... The power of a smartphone is almost infinity and what we are doing right now is a very small portion of that power (I'm a software eng as well).. The desktop software will slowly be transformed into light apps that can deliver the same output in a very convenient way unless the output and inputs can't be convenient enough to be usable in a small form factor which again can change due to improvement in the tech
    04-26-2017 05:00 AM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    Agreed about it being limited for now in terms of software quality and it's a good thing it is limited cause that's the power of it I just pointed out... The power of a smartphone is almost infinity and what we are doing right now is a very small portion of that power (I'm a software eng as well).. The desktop software will slowly be transformed into light apps that can deliver the same output in a very convenient way unless the output and inputs can't be convenient enough to be usable in a small form factor which again can change due to improvement in the tech
    Well if people pay for it, it will. If they don't it won't.

    Currently desktop and tablet markets pay. Smartphone don't. Not unless your juicing with AAA apps and games, and plying with ads.

    Personally I doubt small form factor, in terms of little touch screens will last (voice will rise, folding will come in, and AR). But that's another topic!

    For right now, it's really, the point I was making, about the dollar. Even apple admit that the prices of app purchases are too low to allow depth or quality.

    If say, adobe illustrator were to be a smartphone app - can you see that being funded? Would people even want to spend that money if they could only use it on a small screen?

    It's really similar to the broadcast versus cable paradigm. Celebrity chef versus game of thrones. Android and ios both are held up by a boom. And if you look at software quality barely. Adoption. Which has already turned in mature markets. What happens when the 3 dollar purchases aren't driven by new users and start to shrink? When device turnover shrinks?

    It's the same as tv. Initially broadcast ruled. Then people realised they could pay instead of having low quality and ads. Now we live in the age of cable and streaming. People pay, because they don't want the hassle.

    It's not good for developers, cheap customers. What they want, devs, is maximum users, maximum profit. A hybrid OS, that applies to every new and old innovation. Where you code once, and get console, PC, tablet, smartphone, smartwatch, smartscale, personal dehudimifier, voice, touch and VR sex, lol. Maximum monetary input for each line of code.

    We are at the crest of a boom driven by two dollar purchases. It's platform locked, input locked, and form factor locked. It's not going to last anymore than free to air TV is.

    I don't even think you'll need AI or VR or AR to make it look bad. IMO it'll age before it's even superceeded
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-26-2017 at 05:44 AM.
    04-26-2017 05:11 AM
  18. Jean Claude Lopez's Avatar
    Windows Phone is suffering something called "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy Syndrome". The fans suddenly started panicking when Snapchat decided not to make an app for it, and they started jumping ship in droves because "it was dying". Suddenly other started jumping because other's started jumping. Developers stopped making apps because users were leaving, and now users are leaving because...well, all of the above. But, if you like WP, who cares who's using it? It has a simpler Facebook app, a Twitter, a bunch of smaller apps, ports. There's apps if you're willing to try smaller developers. The OS deserves a chance. WebOS is dead now, Ubuntu Phone is dead, Palm is dead. Google and Apple are jumping of joy watching Windows Phone "die", but I think it's not good for tech if it goes away. #SaveWindowsPhone lol
    04-26-2017 05:48 AM
  19. thomasthomaslai's Avatar
    well said! when webos / bb10 gave up it was very abrupt end. there is still considerable investment in updates (although some thing not enough "new stuff ") but i thought it is fine. if they can emulate android apps then i think that solves really most of the problems.
    04-26-2017 05:57 AM
  20. nasznjoka's Avatar
    Well if people pay for it, it will. If they don't it won't.

    Currently desktop and tablet markets pay. Smartphone don't. Not unless your juicing with AAA apps and games, and plying with ads.

    Personally I doubt small form factor, in terms of little touch screens will last (voice will rise, folding will come in, and AR). But that's another topic!

    For right now, it's really, the point I was making, about the dollar. Even apple admit that the prices of app purchases are too low to allow depth or quality.

    If say, adobe illustrator were to be a smartphone app - can you see that being funded? Would people even want to spend that money if they could only use it on a small screen?

    It's really similar to the broadcast versus cable paradigm. Celebrity chef versus game of thrones. Android and ios both are held up by a boom. And if you look at software quality barely. Adoption. Which has already turned in mature markets. What happens when the 3 dollar purchases aren't driven by new users and start to shrink? When device turnover shrinks?

    It's the same as tv. Initially broadcast ruled. Then people realised they could pay instead of having low quality and ads. Now we live in the age of cable and streaming. People pay, because they don't want the hassle.

    It's not good for developers, cheap customers. What they want, devs, is maximum users, maximum profit. A hybrid OS, that applies to every new and old innovation. Where you code once, and get console, PC, tablet, smartphone, smartwatch, smartscale, personal dehudimifier, voice, touch and VR sex, lol. Maximum monetary input for each line of code.

    We are at the crest of a boom driven by two dollar purchases. It's platform locked, input locked, and form factor locked. It's not going to last anymore than free to air TV is.

    I don't even think you'll need AI or VR or AR to make it look bad. IMO it'll age before it's even superceeded
    Then you're mixing things up... In economics they say you can sell high prices and sell less.. Or you can sell low prices and sell more, in the end low prices with large can be paying more than the other way around. Example in the Play Store Minecraft is the most selling app I was more than 10 million downloads going at $7. I'm not sure about the statistics of the desktop software but I assume it could be less than the mobile sales... Bottom line pricing doesn't matter if the demand is there
    04-26-2017 06:00 AM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    Then you're mixing things up... In economics they say you can sell high prices and sell less.. Or you can sell low prices and sell more, in the end low prices with large can be paying more than the other way around. Example in the Play Store Minecraft is the most selling app I was more than 10 million downloads going at $7. I'm not sure about the statistics of the desktop software but I assume it could be less than the mobile sales... Bottom line pricing doesn't matter if the demand is there
    Tell that to broadcast tv :P

    Minecraft btw, is owned by MS. Seven dollars though, is comparatively a premium price. Get most users to pay that for everything and I think you'll have the recipe for gold, especially considering Netflix is like what, ten bucks a month?

    You are right volume matters too. But be honest - most users won't pay a dime for the average app. And nobody could fund complexity like abode core products, oracle, fruity loops, or a quality fps on 3 dollar chip ins. Like game of thrones, people have to pay proper money if they want it made. There is no gamelofting that shizz. Like tv, in the end pay per view wins over cheap consumers.

    Given the choice, you don't just want three dollar consumers. You want them all. Maximum quality, maximum profit. If cheap got everything done, we'd be living in caves. Its the intersection that drives. The intersection being hybrid.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-26-2017 at 06:17 AM.
    04-26-2017 06:06 AM
  22. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    well said! when webos / bb10 gave up it was very abrupt end. there is still considerable investment in updates (although some thing not enough "new stuff ") but i thought it is fine. if they can emulate android apps then i think that solves really most of the problems.
    I am not a fan of Android emulation as a solution. In the long run, I think that benefits Android, not WP.
    04-26-2017 06:08 AM
  23. envio's Avatar
    Do you think UWP is for mobile devices? Like a market strategy for windows 10 mobile? And do you also think that what MS is doing with UWP and UWA has even really started properly?
    Right now it is yes, although you can add Xbox/Hololens more easily into that mix given how one interacts with those device platforms. It's still a thing that fits best on mobile, partly because of how many of these apps are designed as single-task oriented applications and that use innovative controls and gestures on a small screen.

    There are so many traditional x86 apps on the desktop side that are deeply entrenched and critical for business and consumers alike that it'll take a massive shift for that to change, if ever. Also, why would I use a crippled Adobe Reader UWP when I've got Adobe Reader x86 and so it goes on.
    04-26-2017 06:25 AM
  24. FirstWatt's Avatar
    Why is WP having a hard time?

    - No dedication from the important people at MS since Start of WP7
    - No love from the important people at MS since Start of WP7
    - No awareness that there IS something outside the US that is even spending Money on something called Smartphone. And that this "something" (called customer btw) is wanting to see MS dedicating it a chunk of work (some Keywords: Cortana, Bing)
    - No awareness that the customers pay the bill, and therefore not paying attention to uservoice, which had quite some momentum in 2012/2013
    - after a first "reboot" (WM6.5 to WP7) no roadmap and strategy to migrate SMOOTHLY and AT THE RIGHT TIME to newer platforms. With smoothly I mean to allow the developers build apps which are, at least for some time, backward compatible, and fully forward compatible, perhaps by giving them superior dev tools.
    - too early switch to W10M, before it was mature enough for mobile
    - starting 2014/2015, almost no new handsets and the wrong belief that manufacturers would jump in after the NOKIA dismantling
    - too high revenue goals from the App store, insead of building up momentum first with attracting good developers

    In hindsight, all is easy, I know. But many points have been obvious already at that time.
    It's pretty sad, tbh. What a failure from such a company.
    Guytronic likes this.
    04-26-2017 06:48 AM
  25. envio's Avatar
    Take Facebook for instance. It's available for android, ios and Windows . The windows version is completely out of date. Android and ios get updates every week. The windows 10 Mobile version hasnt been updated in 6 months

    There's also alot of big name apps like chase bank, targets cartwheel app, paypal, ebay, Comcast xfinity app, and plenty others that aren't on windows 10 Mobile at all.

    Sent from Idol 4s
    I used to think like that, frustrated at the lack of updates for tier 1 apps like Facebook but you've already mentioned half the answer. Facebook on iOS and Android is clear - people use the app because the service fits and suits the mobile app platform best and for all the other reasons given, Windows Phone usage is really small.

    Windows as a whole is much more complicated, it covers PC, mobile, holographic, Hub, iOT, Xbox. It might have been easier to have left the Windows Phone Store (nee Marketplace) on its own but Microsoft took the decision to merge all the stores together and the app models. The vast majority of the apps that are in my Store library only work on mobile, have seldom been updated and far fewer have been updated to work on the PC. Why? Well partly because people use their desktops differently, most people don't have touch monitors or want to use gestures on their PC.

    How often do I use the Facebook app on my desktop, almost never since it's actually a better experience on the website which has all the latest rich features. There's little incentive to push the latest into the Facebook app which is now built for PC and Mobile. It's not to say that Facebook couldn't better serve 400 million+ users on Windows 10 PCs with their app but that they already do that in the browser.

    Until devs see the unique potential of the entire Windows ecosystem and aren't as obsessed and intoxicated with mobile, we won't see any explosive growth in UWP. At the same time, until Microsoft figures out a way to sell and harness that unique potential to devs, things won't change either.
    04-26-2017 07:02 AM
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