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  1. Tom Mein's Avatar
    May I suggest that you go and buy a Xiaomi Mi5 or Mi6 and compare either of these two phones to any Windows phone, the Mi5 and Mi6 are streets ahead.
    Also download the MIUI Forum app and join in the community, the support is brilliant.
    Then compare that to the support that Microsoft has given to people that have bought a Surface 2 tablet, a Band 2 or a Lumia phone.
    04-26-2017 08:36 AM
  2. nCogNeato's Avatar
    Phone will not work on my provider, have have to send it back. Wish I could of tried it longer but just was not in the cards. The OS how ever can be something, it's not to late at all. The smooth looking Windows OS was so easy to get use to. I hope Windows Phone gets better then it has ever been before.
    We all do, buddy.

    But until then, I'll be joining you when the new Nokia 6 releases in the US.
    04-26-2017 09:35 AM
  3. noelito's Avatar
    thats an excellent idea, i have always wanted a w10m rom on an android phone, it would be incredible to escape those awful lumia cameras and its horrid algorithms, its delays in taking photos and wide range of choices in handsets to choose from
    04-26-2017 09:52 AM
  4. ED the new guy's Avatar
    Why is Windows Phone having such a bad time?

    Because of a few things:
    #1 iOS and Android are having a great time.

    It's hard to beat competitors who have all the software and hardware a user could wish for. Apple has ALL the software a user could wish for on rock-solid, premium hardware with a MASSIVE user base.

    Android runs acceptably on CHEAP hardware. Thus, even though its users have little money to spend and margins on hardware are razor thin, it does have a decent sized user base. In line with its position as #2 , it has an acceptable but distinctly inferior selection of software.

    Windows Mobile is just so far behind second place Android that it's not funny. WP runs only on expensive hardware which is VERY difficult to buy. It has an app selection that is non-existent and because its user base is TINY software developers don't bother supporting it.

    PS Global number of users is irrelevant. Android is an ecosystem that is fragmented among dozens of manufacturers and as many major and minor versions of Android. iOS is one version with only one manufacturer. iOS is so much more valuable than the whole of Android that it's not even funny.

    #2 Lack of Developers

    In the early days of tablets there was this thing called a BlackBerry PlayBook. Great hardware. Decent interface (once you got used to it). Incredible security. They could easily go head-to-head with iPads. However, the iPad completely and utterly destroyed the PlayBook. Eventually BB added an Android VM to the BB to allow it to run Android apks, but, all that did was cause the already anemic PlayBook app store to implode.

    It's the same for Windows Mobile. So few mobile devices run Windows that developers just don't want to develop for it.

    #3 Microsoft's support

    Either Microsoft needs to the be the sole source provider of hardware like Apple, or, it needs to have a competitor-based ecosystem like Google.

    A hybrid situation where Microsoft produces hardware AND allows third parties to produce hardware simply isn't enticing to third parties. Why compete with a manufacturer that is likely to give itself all the inside advantages that third parties don't get.

    #4 Android

    Android is free of licencing fees. It's not great. It's insanely fragmented, but, each hand set manufacturer can put their own stamp on Android. It means that the hand set companies are free to do what they feel like (provided the adhere to the requirements to be allowed to pre-install Google's services if they want Google services).

    In a way it behooves Microsoft to fork Android and to use it to build its own Microsoft-centric version of Android. They could put their own stamp on Android and Google would be forced to port their services.

    #5 The future?

    Who knows? The technology Microsoft has is good. The problem is mobile market share. A good idea won't dominate in the face of other established good ideas (and, make no mistake, iOS is great and Android is good).

    For Microsoft to grow Windows Mobile they either need to set Windows Mobile free or they need to become the sole-source provider of hardware. They've abandoned the latter approach, so, are they going to do the former like they did with PCs and the various versions of Windows?
    04-26-2017 09:59 AM
  5. thekonger's Avatar
    The root reason is very simple and I'm surprised how many users here simply don't understand it. Not that some don't and perhaps this has been mentioned, but the real reason Window's Phone is virtually dead is because 5+ years ago when it had a chance to make a mark it didn't or couldn't get all of their phone models on all major carriers. And that, quite simply, resulted in no new market share and a mass exodus of current users from WP. Less users, developers leave, less apps, rinse, lather, repeat.

    In 2012 WP8 was launched to pretty great reviews. I had my eye on the Lumia 920 but found each carrier had exclusives and some carriers only had the crappiest Windows Phones available. I ended up switching from Sprint to AT&T just to get a 920, even though it cost me more each year. With WP8 seeming to be on a role I figured after my 2 year contract was up there would be a lot more WPs on all carriers and I could go back to Sprint. My enthusiasm (like many other's) was stoked when MS bought Nokia in 2013. They had to be serious if they shelled that kind of money out, right?

    Well, apparently not, because soon after MS started making some pretty idiotic decisions. Instead of improving their relationship with US carriers and making all their models from their best to their budget available in all carrier stores they actually seemed to worsen those relationships. US carriers, who never really pushed WP in the first place, seemed to show even less interest in them. By the time my 2 year contract was up Sprint still had the same WP phones it had 2 years earlier with no new offerings at all. The Sprint store near me didn't even have any WPs on display.

    If I wanted to get a new WP phone on Sprint I had to pay full price for it online and wait for it to get shipped to me. And even then my choice of phones was limited because not all WP phones supported CDMA. Sorry, that doesn't work in the real world. In reality the vast majority of phone buyers want to walk into a store, pick a phone out, set up a payment plan, and walk out with their shiny new phones. Yet for some inexplicable reason MS chose an online, full-price sales model with the exception of a few phones here and there.

    So in 2015 I, like probably many others, reluctantly chose one of the Android (or iPhone) phones I could see and test right there in the store and left WP. I actually hoped MS would get their act together and aggressively start working with carriers so I might be able to jump back when my contract expired. But no, didn't happen, in fact Sprint doesn't even have any WPs listed on their web site anymore. So I once again went Android and got a Samsung S8+. At least I can use Launcher 8 to make my phone look like a WP.

    So in a nutshell, that's why WP is having a hard time. MS may comeback and produce some killer phones, but until they find a way to get all of their models on all carriers and in stores WP will always be a niche device. And even if they do it will be a hard battle, they're going to have to win back consumers and make up for 5+ years of stupidity.
    04-26-2017 12:34 PM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    The root reason is very simple and I'm surprised how many users here simply don't understand it. Not that some don't and perhaps this has been mentioned, but the real reason Window's Phone is virtually dead is because 5+ years ago when it had a chance to make a mark it didn't or couldn't get all of their phone models on all major carriers. And that, quite simply, resulted in no new market share and a mass exodus of current users from WP. Less users, developers leave, less apps, rinse, lather, repeat.

    In 2012 WP8 was launched to pretty great reviews. I had my eye on the Lumia 920 but found each carrier had exclusives and some carriers only had the crappiest Windows Phones available. I ended up switching from Sprint to AT&T just to get a 920, even though it cost me more each year. With WP8 seeming to be on a role I figured after my 2 year contract was up there would be a lot more WPs on all carriers and I could go back to Sprint. My enthusiasm (like many other's) was stoked when MS bought Nokia in 2013. They had to be serious if they shelled that kind of money out, right?

    Well, apparently not, because soon after MS started making some pretty idiotic decisions. Instead of improving their relationship with US carriers and making all their models from their best to their budget available in all carrier stores they actually seemed to worsen those relationships. US carriers, who never really pushed WP in the first place, seemed to show even less interest in them. By the time my 2 year contract was up Sprint still had the same WP phones it had 2 years earlier with no new offerings at all. The Sprint store near me didn't even have any WPs on display.

    If I wanted to get a new WP phone on Sprint I had to pay full price for it online and wait for it to get shipped to me. And even then my choice of phones was limited because not all WP phones supported CDMA. Sorry, that doesn't work in the real world. In reality the vast majority of phone buyers want to walk into a store, pick a phone out, set up a payment plan, and walk out with their shiny new phones. Yet for some inexplicable reason MS chose an online, full-price sales model with the exception of a few phones here and there.

    So in 2015 I, like probably many others, reluctantly chose one of the Android (or iPhone) phones I could see and test right there in the store and left WP. I actually hoped MS would get their act together and aggressively start working with carriers so I might be able to jump back when my contract expired. But no, didn't happen, in fact Sprint doesn't even have any WPs listed on their web site anymore. So I once again went Android and got a Samsung S8+. At least I can use Launcher 8 to make my phone look like a WP.

    So in a nutshell, that's why WP is having a hard time. MS may comeback and produce some killer phones, but until they find a way to get all of their models on all carriers and in stores WP will always be a niche device. And even if they do it will be a hard battle, they're going to have to win back consumers and make up for 5+ years of stupidity.
    That explains the US. What about the rest of the world that doesn't use CDMA?

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    raycpl likes this.
    04-26-2017 01:09 PM
  7. Ben Wolgus's Avatar
    Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Microsoft is not trying. I have had Windows phones since the very beginning and unfortunately they just never really tried to win over this market. Each effort is half hearted or they just give up. The OS was slowly gaining momentum in Europe but Microsoft decided it wasn't enough and basically shut down the hardware side of things and ever since then people have speculated that the OS is dead even though to their credit MS does seem to be releasing a good number of updates and a few new features here and there.
    04-26-2017 02:26 PM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Right now it is yes, although you can add Xbox/Hololens more easily into that mix given how one interacts with those device platforms. It's still a thing that fits best on mobile, partly because of how many of these apps are designed as single-task oriented applications and that use innovative controls and gestures on a small screen.

    There are so many traditional x86 apps on the desktop side that are deeply entrenched and critical for business and consumers alike that it'll take a massive shift for that to change, if ever. Also, why would I use a crippled Adobe Reader UWP when I've got Adobe Reader x86 and so it goes on.
    According to the small survey I did on here, over half of people use UWPs on the desktop, tablet and laptop. Some prefer the speed, or the fact they are single task orientated. I'd say most people on a tablet use UWPs. And they are definitely handy on an xbox, or HoloLens.

    There's definitely an entrenched PC user base that is sort of philosophically opposed to UWPs on desktop in some way too. Or maybe they are just more along the lines of power users who browse 50 tabs at a time. IDK, perhaps something in between.

    Sometimes for me on the desktop, the option is clear in favour of one or the other - little difference, okay UWP because it'll be faster, big functional differences, okay x86.

    I use web apps and UWPs and UWAs from the store, primarily on my tablet, but some on my desktop. In some cases, the increased simplicity, dedicatedness is welcome on bigger screens, for me. In particular the lightweightness.

    Keep in mind everything like groove, weather - are UWP too. Edge too I believe. And that's no slouch as a browser, hardly android browser league.

    MS didn't unify the platform just for phones IMO. They unified to create their "one OS on many devices". Something that has only partially taken shape. We will see it taking more form with windows cloud, windows on arm, scorpio, the IoT core etc.

    I'm sure the lightweight nature of UWPs will be equally welcome on wearables.

    Of course there's UWAs as well as UWPs. x86 programs that run on different hardware platforms (like say, console and PC), and that's another platform that'll be extended over time, for example by windows on arm.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-26-2017 at 04:34 PM.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    04-26-2017 04:17 PM
  9. John Christopoulos's Avatar
    Apps.
    Perception.
    Average people have already chosen between iOS & Android.
    plus...
    Poor marketing if any
    Too many promises and no results
    users a-banned-oned again: This created users of 2 OSes WP8.1 and w10mobile with a wall between them and no chance to upgrade your older device (well a few did), you could simply byu a 950 though with a buggy OS!!!
    04-26-2017 04:54 PM
  10. Ben Wolgus's Avatar
    Microsoft should have bought T-Mobile after the AT&T purchase fell through. Instead they spend 26 Billion on linkedin.
    04-26-2017 05:16 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    According to the small survey I did on here, over half of people use UWPs on the desktop, tablet and laptop. Some prefer the speed, or the fact they are single task orientated. I'd say most people on a tablet use UWPs. And they are definitely handy on an xbox, or HoloLens.

    There's definitely an entrenched PC user base that is sort of philosophically opposed to UWPs on desktop in some way too. Or maybe they are just more along the lines of power users who browse 50 tabs at a time. IDK, perhaps something in between.

    Sometimes for me on the desktop, the option is clear in favour of one or the other - little difference, okay UWP because it'll be faster, big functional differences, okay x86.

    I use web apps and UWPs and UWAs from the store, primarily on my tablet, but some on my desktop. In some cases, the increased simplicity, dedicatedness is welcome on bigger screens, for me. In particular the lightweightness.

    Keep in mind everything like groove, weather - are UWP too. Edge too I believe. And that's no slouch as a browser, hardly android browser league.

    MS didn't unify the platform just for phones IMO. They unified to create their "one OS on many devices". Something that has only partially taken shape. We will see it taking more form with windows cloud, windows on arm, scorpio, the IoT core etc.

    I'm sure the lightweight nature of UWPs will be equally welcome on wearables.

    Of course there's UWAs as well as UWPs. x86 programs that run on different hardware platforms (like say, console and PC), and that's another platform that'll be extended over time, for example by windows on arm.
    Depends on the UWP. Adobe DC is exponentially better than say Perfect PDF Combine, which I consider the best of all the UWP apps for PDFs. Let's not even get into the Office apps.

    As for UWP browsers I would say Monument Browser is a tick better than Edge but the whole equation changes when Edge runs on Continuum. It's as close to a desktop browser as it gets.

    I'm not sold on WoA until I see it live and in color, as it were.
    04-26-2017 05:33 PM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    Depends on the UWP. Adobe DC is exponentially better than say Perfect PDF Combine, which I consider the best of all the UWP apps for PDFs. Let's not even get into the Office apps.

    As for UWP browsers I would say Monument Browser is a tick better than Edge but the whole equation changes when Edge runs on Continuum. It's as close to a desktop browser as it gets.

    I'm not sold on WoA until I see it live and in color, as it were.
    Office 365 is coming to UWP I believe.
    04-26-2017 05:58 PM
  13. AWspicious 13's Avatar
    I like this OS a lot. It's fast. easy, looks nice, customizable. Instagram seems a little watered down, but that's no biggie as of now. The only problem I'm having is not being able to send and receive pictures and videos on text messages. Trying to get it working now. Started a thread on the 950 xl forum about it.

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/mic...ml#post3654620

    Any help I would be very thankful for. I hope Microsoft start to work more on WP, fans want it, and it could really be something great if they bother to try.
    I won't bother to comment on the woes of Windows 10 Mobile....Phone....whatever. I will, however, suggest you check and adjust your carrier info in the network settings in order to fix the picture/video message (MMS) issue you're experiencing. Search your carrier's website or online cellphone forums... or just call customer service.
    Good luck.
    04-26-2017 08:50 PM
  14. sjactivity's Avatar
    Just switched from android to to Windows Mobile 10 with a nice Lumia 950 xl. I'm going to be blunt, I can't see why Windows phone is having any problems at all. The OS is great. Windows Mobile 10 is amazing. Easy, fast, feeling like Windows on my PC. I kinda can't see why its not doing so good. Now being that my last Windows phone was a dell venue pro witch was WP7, I have missed a lot. I don't know all the dark times. But as someone who I's coming fresh to the new current WP10. It owns. Great hand set. The switch coming from a galaxy s4 was very easy. I got basically everything my old phone had.

    This kinda make me ask, why is WP having such troubled times, and has such a bad rap? Microsoft should be purring everything into this. Not trying do do a 3rd time WP reboot/reset. This OS is great, its got some much potential. If they really tried I could see them, one day, being 15% to 20% of the phone market possibly. Microsoft should be rolling out updates for this OS every week. Is Microsoft not trying or something? Everyone thinks this OS is dead witch is really sad.
    After so many years of using windows phone and currently using Lumia 950xl Iam now forced to come out of windows mobile. I cannot believe Microsoft doesn't fully support office 365 on their own phone.It's something to do with where the data sits and encrypted. Due to this my company is pulling support for O365 for work emails. But Microsoft supports it on android and iPhone. I now have to carry my personal phone and an android work phone. Android phone has dual sim so Iam eventually going to move my windows mobile sim into it and stop using windows mobile.

    Secondly maps on windows mobile has become a joke. It's so unresponsive and slow when navigating even on walking.

    Thirdly not many companies has moved their apps from standard to universal app. So all the apps still look ooooold.
    04-27-2017 02:50 AM
  15. SageSage456's Avatar
    Someone mentioned the sheep factor. I have first-hand experience with that. I got the Lumina 735, the only WP at Verizon. My wife got a Galaxy something. I explained to her that WP is easier, syncs to her computer and everything, and was a better choice for a non-techy like her. (She goes to Verizon to get her voicemail cleared when the box is full.) Her reason? All her friends have Android or iOS.

    I have no qualms with my phone. The upgrade from 8.1 to 10 was smooth and it seems crisper overall with WM10. I do not do anything on mobile that links to the bank so the apps that do that are not important. I don't need to keep up to the minute with Facebook, Instagram, Tweet-n-Twit.

    Maybe the difference is the group of people who have their phone in their hand all the time and the other group who have the phone in the backpack. For one it is an extension of self, for the other it is a tool. If you want a good reliable tool that can also play sometimes, the WP is your best option.
    04-27-2017 04:25 AM
  16. sheldon cohn's Avatar
    Just switched from android to to Windows Mobile 10 with a nice Lumia 950 xl. I'm going to be blunt, I can't see why Windows phone is having any problems at all. The OS is great. Windows Mobile 10 is amazing. Easy, fast, feeling like Windows on my PC. I kinda can't see why its not doing so good. Now being that my last Windows phone was a dell venue pro witch was WP7, I have missed a lot. I don't know all the dark times. But as someone who I's coming fresh to the new current WP10. It owns. Great hand set. The switch coming from a galaxy s4 was very easy. I got basically everything my old phone had.

    This kinda make me ask, why is WP having such troubled times, and has such a bad rap? Microsoft should be purring everything into this. Not trying do do a 3rd time WP reboot/reset. This OS is great, its got some much potential. If they really tried I could see them, one day, being 15% to 20% of the phone market possibly. Microsoft should be rolling out updates for this OS every week. Is Microsoft not trying or something? Everyone thinks this OS is dead witch is really sad.
    04-27-2017 08:59 AM
  17. sheldon cohn's Avatar
    As an Insider I find a lot of the OS working great, however each build seems to fix a few items, but breaks a few that has been working. Talking to people working at AT&T store, I hear the App gap is the main problem why people don't want the Windows phone. It appears there are certain apps the people want and are not available on the Windows phone.
    Not all people purchasing the phone are technical advanced, so reset the phone and having to reload it is out of the question. New builds have to be able to load, without problems.
    The phone has to work as a phone first, calling and texting, both outgoing and incoming. I found when at a park walking, seeing who is calling or texting is very difficult, even in the shade.
    I still show the phone to friends and show the good points, but when some good points aren't working, it's difficult to show others. I had trouble with the Edge, far as trying to tap on links, just to find it's not working as well as IE or other browsers.
    04-27-2017 09:12 AM
  18. thekonger's Avatar
    That explains the US. What about the rest of the world that doesn't use CDMA?

    Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk
    I can't speak for the rest of the world, just the market I am in. I would actually be interested to see what other users around the globe witnessed with WP phone sales tactics and environemnt. I believe sales were climbing in 2013/14/15, what changed in 2016?
    04-27-2017 10:12 AM
  19. thekonger's Avatar
    As an Insider I find a lot of the OS working great, however each build seems to fix a few items, but breaks a few that has been working. Talking to people working at AT&T store, I hear the App gap is the main problem why people don't want the Windows phone. It appears there are certain apps the people want and are not available on the Windows phone.
    Not all people purchasing the phone are technical advanced, so reset the phone and having to reload it is out of the question. New builds have to be able to load, without problems.
    The phone has to work as a phone first, calling and texting, both outgoing and incoming. I found when at a park walking, seeing who is calling or texting is very difficult, even in the shade.
    I still show the phone to friends and show the good points, but when some good points aren't working, it's difficult to show others. I had trouble with the Edge, far as trying to tap on links, just to find it's not working as well as IE or other browsers.
    I would question the salesman's knowledge if he tells you it's an app gap problem. Not saying it's a contributor, it definitely is, but that's not the main issue for WP now. If a million new WP apps appeared and covered all the most popular apps you would barely see an uptick in WP sales.

    Why? Well, because where do you go to buy a WP? In my Sprint store they don't have a single WP phone on display. They don't even list any on their website. There are no WP phones on AT&T's site either. Did you even see a WP phone on display when you were there? People can't buy what they don't see.

    MS's biggest problem going back to 2011 is it's inability to get all their phones on all carriers and in all carrier stores. People want to walk into a store, pick out the phone they want, set up a payment plan, and walk out with their shiny new phone. The vast majority of cell phone users do this. Yet for most WP phones you have to go online, find a phone that works with your carrier, and pay full price up front. Sorry, that's not going to work with US customers.

    To comeback MS needs to take several necessary steps. And after they have given up so much ground it will still be a huge challenge.


    1. Make some killer phones. The holy grail 'x86' phone, if possible, would a big plus.
    2. Get all their models on all carriers. No exclusives.
    3. Make them available as contract/lease phones. Few people want to pay full price up front.
    4. Get phones in stores in front of customers. Buyers (US at least) like to walk in and try the phones they want to buy.
    5. Get the big name and popular apps on (or back on for those that left) WP
    6. Advertise like crazy.
    7. Subsidize at first, if possible.


    Then hang on, because it's still going to be a hard battle for WP.
    04-27-2017 10:23 AM
  20. Drael646464's Avatar
    After so many years of using windows phone and currently using Lumia 950xl Iam now forced to come out of windows mobile. I cannot believe Microsoft doesn't fully support office 365 on their own phone.It's something to do with where the data sits and encrypted. Due to this my company is pulling support for O365 for work emails. But Microsoft supports it on android and iPhone. I now have to carry my personal phone and an android work phone. Android phone has dual sim so Iam eventually going to move my windows mobile sim into it and stop using windows mobile.

    Secondly maps on windows mobile has become a joke. It's so unresponsive and slow when navigating even on walking.

    Thirdly not many companies has moved their apps from standard to universal app. So all the apps still look ooooold.
    the office 365 uwp is coming this year.
    04-27-2017 10:28 AM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I believe sales were climbing in 2013/14/15, what changed in 2016?
    Simple, The Lumia line was deep-sixed and there were no more Microsoft-branded devices for sale. Leftover stock was it "while supplies last".
    04-27-2017 10:48 AM
  22. thekonger's Avatar
    Simple, The Lumia line was deep-sixed and there were no more Microsoft-branded devices for sale. Leftover stock was it "while supplies last".
    There you go, answered your own question!

    Sad though. The best mobile OS there is and it's almost dead.
    04-27-2017 11:30 AM
  23. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    the office 365 uwp is coming this year.
    Not WM related, but if Office365 becomes UWP-only for all platforms, it should be interesting to see the reaction when people suddenly need a separate license for every person who shares a PC (plus one license for the guest account?) instead of one license per PC.
    04-27-2017 11:35 AM
  24. FirstWatt's Avatar
    That explains the US. What about the rest of the world that doesn't use CDMA?
    Exactly. It's the US centric view that killed the platform. In Europe, everyone and my sister could get those phones from any carrier. In some countries, it worked. It is not necessary that it has to hit a thereshold in the US first. European (and other regions) people also buy and want apps. For devs, it wasn't that bad, and we got quite some apps.
    It was MS which had no patience to wait for further growth, and made some catastrophic decisions in 2014/2015.
    04-27-2017 11:38 AM
  25. sd4f's Avatar
    I suspect that Nokia played a role in the downfall. Being just a distant observer, I have no clue what really happened, but it looks like Nokia didn't meet targets and I suspect there was an agreement for MS to essentially bail them out by buying out the phone making business.

    So I think if MS didn't buy Nokia, they would have bailed anyway, or gone broke.

    Why MS has decided to buy them out and then pretty much immediately give up, I have no clue. If anything, I suspect that the 'growth at any cost' approach of MS is over and they wanted the phone business to be profitable without it being heavily subsidised by other areas of the business.

    The rumoured Nokia 9 looks really good though, and I wish that they wouldn't just completely abandon windows. Maybe there's a glimmer of hope that they could still offer their phones with windows alongside android.

    However, with that, I suspect even this approach isn't going to be as brilliant as Nokia would like. They now enter a highly competitive environment, and we'll see how they manage. I get the feeling that they won't be able to significantly differentiate themselves, and probably have the same problems that they did previously.
    04-27-2017 07:08 PM
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