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07-17-2017 11:05 AM
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  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    Not WM related, but if Office365 becomes UWP-only for all platforms, it should be interesting to see the reaction when people suddenly need a separate license for every person who shares a PC (plus one license for the guest account?) instead of one license per PC.
    That doesn't seem nessasary to me. Surely the download will be free and it'll just be linked just like it is now.
    04-27-2017 08:57 PM
  2. Drael646464's Avatar
    Exactly. It's the US centric view that killed the platform. In Europe, everyone and my sister could get those phones from any carrier. In some countries, it worked. It is not necessary that it has to hit a thereshold in the US first. European (and other regions) people also buy and want apps. For devs, it wasn't that bad, and we got quite some apps.
    It was MS which had no patience to wait for further growth, and made some catastrophic decisions in 2014/2015.
    I actually agree the US centric view isn't helping MS. Windows 10 mobile was more popular in Europe, Australia, asia. Same story with their taking on the chromebook. Outside of the US, schools don't buy into that wholesale, its just a consumer device for people with less cash.
    04-27-2017 08:59 PM
  3. nate0's Avatar
    Time to play Devil's Advocate!

    I know my Priv has color settings and the Galaxy S8, among other phones certainly do.

    The Huawei P9 has a 500 nit display, the LG G6 and iPhone 7 Plus also can smash 500 nits in automatic mode if need be so it's all hardware dependent.

    Pushbullet and other things are a solution for Android, iMessage already works across Apple devices.

    Samsung's DeX and Maru OS are two Android solutions that work, and they're actually being improved I believe.
    @xandros9 I understand, but those are all flagships. The Lumia line from the lowest x50 device to the highest x50 all include those nifty features, minus continuum and brightness I suppose.
    04-28-2017 11:27 AM
  4. technogeek019's Avatar
    May I suggest that you go and buy a Xiaomi Mi5 or Mi6 and compare either of these two phones to any Windows phone, the Mi5 and Mi6 are streets ahead.
    Also download the MIUI Forum app and join in the community, the support is brilliant.
    Then compare that to the support that Microsoft has given to people that have bought a Surface 2 tablet, a Band 2 or a Lumia phone.
    The app experiences, microsoft integration, fluidity of the OS is also better. Win10 for phones right now is just plain buggy and unusable as a daily driver smartphone os.
    04-28-2017 01:55 PM
  5. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Win10 for phones right now is just plain buggy and unusable as a daily driver smartphone os.
    No it isn't. Not even close. You would have to show how I manage to

    - Check email on live tiles, one tile per important mail folder
    - Read/Send emails using Outlook mail client
    - See weather on live tile
    - Send and receive messages
    - Surf the web on Edge
    - See calendar events on live tile
    - Schedule events on calendar
    - Sync with OneDrive
    - Obviously view items on OneDrive in my phone
    - Read PDFs
    - Listen to music on Groove
    - Use tile-groups to reduce space
    - Quickly take photos of really good quality
    - Check Facebook (which I honestly care little about)
    - Watch Netflix (also care little about)
    - Open the door to my bank's ATM locations with my phone's NFC / bank app
    - Use the same to pay at Duane Reade, C-Town grocery, Trader Joe's, NY Yellow (and green) cabs
    - Unlock the phone with an iris scan
    - Get locations and directions using maps
    - Read MS Office docs


    "daily"


    I mean, seriously: Do you people EVER get tired of exaggerating reality??? No wonder the OS struggles when you whine about things to this nonsensical degree.
    Mach_E, TgeekB, mark233 and 3 others like this.
    04-28-2017 03:46 PM
  6. TgeekB's Avatar
    The app experiences, microsoft integration, fluidity of the OS is also better. Win10 for phones right now is just plain buggy and unusable as a daily driver smartphone os.
    Funny, I'm using mine as my daily driver (sold my Android phones) and not having any issues. Maybe I'm dreaming?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-28-2017 04:26 PM
  7. Arthanzar's Avatar
    I love my Lumia 920, except that I can't W10. I'm really looking forward to the Surface Phone.
    04-29-2017 12:23 AM
  8. wgrs's Avatar
    Funny, I'm using mine as my daily driver (sold my Android phones) and not having any issues. Maybe I'm dreaming?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4

    Me too. It does the simple things as mentioned by mattiasnyc. For everything else I use the iPad, tethered to the phone.
    TgeekB and fatclue_98 like this.
    04-29-2017 12:39 AM
  9. Kimmo Toivanen's Avatar
    @xandros9 I understand, but those are all flagships. The Lumia line from the lowest x50 device to the highest x50 all include those nifty features, minus continuum and brightness I suppose.
    In my Honor 7Lite (5C in some countries, currently selling at 149€ including VAT) I can adjust screen colour freely, though not the vividness. And it has night mode, which W10M may or may not get in next update. Screen is bright enough to play Pokemon under sun and dim enough in dark. Screen brightness is somewhere etween 498 and 418 depending on who tested it. Camera is not as good as in 950, but it does it's job and has plenty of shooting modes.

    If messaging everywhere is tied to Cortana (there are more countries where it's not available) or Skype (I'm not using it in private). Well, it was a nice idea :)
    04-29-2017 06:01 AM
  10. Drael646464's Avatar
    In my Honor 7Lite (5C in some countries, currently selling at 149€ including VAT) I can adjust screen colour freely, though not the vividness. And it has night mode, which W10M may or may not get in next update. Screen is bright enough to play Pokemon under sun and dim enough in dark. Screen brightness is somewhere etween 498 and 418 depending on who tested it. Camera is not as good as in 950, but it does it's job and has plenty of shooting modes.

    If messaging everywhere is tied to Cortana (there are more countries where it's not available) or Skype (I'm not using it in private). Well, it was a nice idea :)
    Can't you just change your region and language on your phone to get Cortana working?
    Last edited by Drael646464; 04-29-2017 at 09:04 AM.
    nate0 likes this.
    04-29-2017 06:43 AM
  11. TgeekB's Avatar
    Me too. It does the simple things as mentioned by mattiasnyc. For everything else I use the iPad, tethered to the phone.
    I have an SP4 I do most of my work on.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    04-29-2017 07:45 AM
  12. technogeek019's Avatar
    No it isn't. Not even close. You would have to show how I manage to

    I mean, seriously: Do you people EVER get tired of exaggerating reality??? No wonder the OS struggles when you whine about things to this nonsensical degree.
    Well the OS struggles for a lot more reasons than "exaggerated reality".

    If win10 works well enough for you to use it as a daily driver then fair enough, I know far too many people who had to kick the bucket in regards to windows phone as it became to excruciating to use as a daily driver.

    Now to provide some context none of the phones were lumia 950, however its important to understand that regardless of one's passion for the OS, no one would justify getting a lumia 950 if they no longer believe in the viability of the OS.

    Once again with all due respect, If you consider windows phone to be a viable platform that satisfies your smartphone needs then that's good for you. Just understand that accusing people of "exaggerating reality" just because they think otherwise does not really help the argument.

    Well with smartphones its always about what works for you, Windows phone worked well for me for the last 4 years, now it no longer does hence i switched. If windows phone still works for you then that's great. Apologies if I sounded a bit combative, I just couldn't let the "exaggerated reality" bit slide.

    I still do hope that Microsoft can turn this around and prove me wrong.
    Guytronic and fatclue_98 like this.
    04-29-2017 03:33 PM
  13. technogeek019's Avatar
    Funny, I'm using mine as my daily driver (sold my Android phones) and not having any issues. Maybe I'm dreaming?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    If it works well for you then I am happy for you.
    04-29-2017 03:34 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    If it works well for you then I am happy for you.
    Thanks. We all have different needs.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-29-2017 03:37 PM
  15. Vasil Dechkov's Avatar
    Basically Nadella murdered it.

    Sent from mTalk
    04-29-2017 04:05 PM
  16. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Basically Nadella murdered it.

    Sent from mTalk
    If anything, it was a mercy killing. There's no way Windows on phones was going to survive on the path Nadella inherited. If, and it's a big if, they are able to pull off this Windows on Arm theory then it will be looked at as a stroke of genius.

    Either way, there are 2 years left on the present configuration. That's more than enough time to see what's going to shake out. Anybody who wants to bail out based on the "sky is falling" proclamations of a few "experts", go ahead and knock yourself out.
    04-29-2017 05:41 PM
  17. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Well the OS struggles for a lot more reasons than "exaggerated reality".

    If win10 works well enough for you to use it as a daily driver then fair enough, I know far too many people who had to kick the bucket in regards to windows phone as it became to excruciating to use as a daily driver.

    Now to provide some context none of the phones were lumia 950, however its important to understand that regardless of one's passion for the OS, no one would justify getting a lumia 950 if they no longer believe in the viability of the OS.

    Once again with all due respect, If you consider windows phone to be a viable platform that satisfies your smartphone needs then that's good for you. Just understand that accusing people of "exaggerating reality" just because they think otherwise does not really help the argument.

    Well with smartphones its always about what works for you, Windows phone worked well for me for the last 4 years, now it no longer does hence i switched. If windows phone still works for you then that's great. Apologies if I sounded a bit combative, I just couldn't let the "exaggerated reality" bit slide.

    I still do hope that Microsoft can turn this around and prove me wrong.
    Did you notice that in your response to me above you emphasize several times that it's a personal issue whether or not the OS works for the individual, yet in the post I replied to you made no such distinction.

    That is where the exaggeration lies.

    If you don't like the OS, fine. Whatever. If there are functions it can't provide, fine. Whatever. That's something that you want that the OS doesn't provide.

    But to say that it's unworkable daily because of the OS is a blanket statement and it's not true. It simply isn't.

    If I did the same I could say that investing in an Android device is stupid since they're unsafe. How do I know? Ever heard of battery issues? Yeah, well, it's not all of the phones, but for those that suffered those issues the OS has problems.

    See what I did there? I took one example and extrapolated it to the OS in general. Complete exaggeration.
    04-29-2017 06:32 PM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well the OS struggles for a lot more reasons than "exaggerated reality".

    If win10 works well enough for you to use it as a daily driver then fair enough, I know far too many people who had to kick the bucket in regards to windows phone as it became to excruciating to use as a daily driver.

    Now to provide some context none of the phones were lumia 950, however its important to understand that regardless of one's passion for the OS, no one would justify getting a lumia 950 if they no longer believe in the viability of the OS.

    Once again with all due respect, If you consider windows phone to be a viable platform that satisfies your smartphone needs then that's good for you. Just understand that accusing people of "exaggerating reality" just because they think otherwise does not really help the argument.

    Well with smartphones its always about what works for you, Windows phone worked well for me for the last 4 years, now it no longer does hence i switched. If windows phone still works for you then that's great. Apologies if I sounded a bit combative, I just couldn't let the "exaggerated reality" bit slide.

    I still do hope that Microsoft can turn this around and prove me wrong.
    Were any of them phones that were shipped with/designed for windows 10 mobile?

    Just wondering, because perhaps this is a case of the hardware and drivers weren't up to the job....
    04-29-2017 11:07 PM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Were any of them phones that were shipped with/designed for windows 10 mobile?

    Just wondering, because perhaps this is a case of the hardware and drivers weren't up to the job....
    To my knowledge, the phones that shipped with 10 in the US were the Lumia 550, 650 and 950. The Alcatel Fierce XL and Idol 4S, the Acer Liquid Jade Primo and the HP Elite x3.
    04-30-2017 10:32 AM
  20. technogeek019's Avatar
    Did you notice that in your response to me above you emphasize several times that it's a personal issue whether or not the OS works for the individual, yet in the post I replied to you made no such distinction.

    That is where the exaggeration lies.

    If you don't like the OS, fine. Whatever. If there are functions it can't provide, fine. Whatever. That's something that you want that the OS doesn't provide.
    Well to clarify there is a reason as to why I did emphasize about one's own personal experiences, When you did mention the things that you were able to do with your own phone that was you talking about your own personal experience. Though it has been a while since I have last looked at forums here, I am quite confident that a quick scroll through them should reveal some cases where people have had troubles doing the same things that you were able to do.

    This is not an thread regarding what features windows phone does not support, its more about why the OS is struggling so much to seem viable in the present smartphone market. I do believe that the real/"perceived" instability of the OS contributes a lot to the bad rap that win10 has been taking thus making it seem less viable of an OS.

    Now to clarify regarding the real/"perceived" instability based on the personal experiences of several people that I know, I do believe that win10 has certain stability issues that causes concern but I also understand that win10 has been working well for some hence I would like to apologize and take back the blanket statement that I made earlier.

    I would like to give one example to answer questions regarding the devices used. A friend had a lumia 640 which he updated to win10, despite not being on the fast ring, the OS experience was buggy enough for him to go for a cheap android phone instead. Do note that the lumia 640 was eligible for the update.

    OS updates are pretty much the only realistic way that win10 for mobile can retain the greater part of the overall windows phone market share, Considering the fact that Microsoft were wise enough to block the older snapdragon s4 devices from getting that update, expectations were set that win10 mobile should be running smooth for the eligible phones, however as in the example I gave above, not all expectations are going to be satisfied.

    Now here is the point, what is the probability that a user who has had a bad experience with win10 mobile is going to go and buy a phone that comes preinstalled with the OS just because its perceived to run better (In the case of the lumia 550 it does not really help that its also perceived to be a "weaker" phone compared to the 640 ).

    It helps to think about everyone who jumped ship to WP in the first place due to bad experiences with other smartphone operating systems. It also helps to think about the word of mouth marketing that windows phones have relied on for the "golden" years of windows phone 8.

    In conclusion:

    Real/"Perceived" OS stability issues + Real/"Perceived" weak mobile hardware -> Poor word of mouth -> Failing OS


    P.S just to clarify: I am just putting out my two cents as a former windows phone enthusiast regarding the decline of OS. If I was an android fanboy then I would be off to the AndroidCentral forums. Regardless of whether my opinion is needless or not, I still reserve the right to freely share my opinions here.
    nasznjoka likes this.
    04-30-2017 12:57 PM
  21. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Look, you've got whatever rights to express yourself here as the owners of the forum give you, just like everybody else. I'm not disputing that. However, "Poor word of mouth" is one parameter you can control.

    So, when people make generic statements like people here do, then that word of mouth gets around. There is absolutely zero benefit in that to you or anyone else on W10M. Zero.

    Secondly, the perception of issues with the OS is just that, perception. Whether or not it's founded in a real problem is something we could evaluate, but the way things are in contemporary discourse that doesn't appear too interesting compared to just whining about things not working. For example; some here complained about the OS because taking a picture with the included camera app was too slow. Well, the person was taking HDR photos, and by design those take time to process. But it was all worded as an issue with the software or the phone. In truth it's very simple: The phone is capable of taking great pictures using HDR, but at some processing expense which equals time. Turn that off and you get the speed you want. But just complaining about it wouldn't have gotten that person anywhere. Yet that's exactly what a lot of people will see - just the complaint, and neither the reason behind the operation or the alternative.

    And there are several issues like that. People here will complain about the OS being unstable, yet not disclose they're running a pre-release version. If a release version isn't working then fine, that's a valid complaint. But when users imply that the release version has an issue when it fact it does not it just spreads negativity for absolutely no good reason.

    So I hope you understand what my point is. I'm just a bit tired of all the complaints and misrepresentations of the OS.


    PS: The above isn't personal.
    fatclue_98, TgeekB and mark233 like this.
    04-30-2017 02:20 PM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    Well said Matt.
    Fake news doesn't help anyone and just muddies the water, making it harder for people to get help with real issues. We should be about helping and supporting people and the OS rather than spreading FUD.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    04-30-2017 03:37 PM
  23. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Another thing is consistency. Back when I was using a Palm Pilot, the "evil" Microsoft came out with CE devices. Then they changed the design with Windows Phone. Then again with 8.x and now again with Windows 10.

    Meanwhile the Iphone one son uses and the Android-based LG V20 my other son uses are pretty much the same as when those devices were introduced.

    Sent from mTalk
    04-30-2017 03:38 PM
  24. pracker's Avatar
    MS has a plan to make its platform viable for many years to come. Because of this, mobile isn't quite there yet. That doesn't mean they don't care, its dead, or they don't know what they're doing as some will have you believe. It means they're focused on their plan and it will come in due time. I don't think there's anything we can do to speed them up.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4

    I love W10 Mobile, however I see a fundamental problem to MS's strategy, please correct me if I'm wrong...

    Whilst all my services, music, storage, docs etc... All are MS, if I am forced to switch to another mobile platform (which I am dreading) then I cannot use Edge anymore.

    When that happens, a few things fall apart.
    Most importantly, I will need to use Chrome on my PC. Passwords save there would sync down to my mobile I presume. I could use Enpass or the likes but then I am just using another app, and I personally don't believe that that is a good solution/value proposition. I loved being in one ecosystem and having everything seamlessly integrated unlike the ios app concept.
    04-30-2017 03:58 PM
  25. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Another thing is consistency. Back when I was using a Palm Pilot, the "evil" Microsoft came out with CE devices. Then they changed the design with Windows Phone. Then again with 8.x and now again with Windows 10.

    Meanwhile the Iphone one son uses and the Android-based LG V20 my other son uses are pretty much the same as when those devices were introduced.

    Sent from mTalk
    Fair enough, but I've heard very few complaints about the GUI of the OS. The design of W10M is in my opinion one of its strengths and from what I read most seem to agree. The majority of complaints seem to me to be about a lack of apps people say they want, or experiencing issues (which could be because of the OS or the phone).
    TgeekB, fatclue_98 and Drael646464 like this.
    04-30-2017 05:00 PM
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