06-16-2017 07:08 PM
58 123
tools
  1. Drael646464's Avatar
    That's my prediction, MS will demo cshell running on windows 10 mobile and other devices at build in a few weeks.

    This, and some other announcements will spin everyones head. People will be generally impressed how continuum functions, literally just like a desktop shell.

    Everything will move to beautiful neon design.

    They _may_ also talk about Cortana skills api. win10 m naysayers jaws will drop. That's how I am calling it.
    joshcaleb27 likes this.
    04-30-2017 11:59 PM
  2. techiez's Avatar
    If that happens it has to be with an accompanying hardware. But all the ms experts have said its unlikely to see new hardware(especially) mobile. So it may just be about windows cloud and may be a cheap surface hardware for schools.
    Though i hope what u say comes true but not keeping my hopes up for it.
    05-01-2017 01:30 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    If that happens it has to be with an accompanying hardware. But all the ms experts have said its unlikely to see new hardware(especially) mobile. So it may just be about windows cloud and may be a cheap surface hardware for schools.
    Though i hope what u say comes true but not keeping my hopes up for it.
    I don't think a demo needs hardware. But I've heard people say there's another HP in the works that would probably fit the bit of a unit sold. It is an advance on continuum after all.

    Plus hardware manufacurers would be more interested _after_ something like this was revealed to them rather than before.

    Cshell was supposed to come with the CU. So it must be at least ready for demo by now.

    Dan seems to have suddenly switched from being cynical to saying windows 10 mobile isn't dead. Suspicious. And I just have a feeling.

    The spring event (may 6) is where they are expected to announce windows cloud.

    I think the build conference will have a few interesting titbits, given what a busy year this is for MS (cloud, on arm, project scorpio, Cortana skills api, invoke), even if I am wrong. Maybe some of these will be pushed back to early next year, but still it'll be big this year.

    They will have quite a bit to get developers on board for, mobile aside.
    05-01-2017 01:54 AM
  4. Iain_S's Avatar
    I think BUILD this year will focus on regular win32 applications and porting them to the store for use with windows 10s, I really cant see much news coming in the way of phones at all. We will also probably see some windows 10 on arm stuff for cellular pc's.
    Krystianpants likes this.
    05-02-2017 05:34 PM
  5. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think BUILD this year will focus on regular win32 applications and porting them to the store for use with windows 10s, I really cant see much news coming in the way of phones at all. We will also probably see some windows 10 on arm stuff for cellular pc's.
    We already know that power applications being ported to UWAs is a priority for MS, from dan.

    Windows on arms only specific coding requirements would be LTE, gps and cellular functions (which would be kinda relevant to phones).

    Cortana api, and cshell are relevant to coding. Cshell isn't phone specific.

    I'd be disappointed if they just roiled out Cortana api, and cshell with redstone 3, without any fanfair. Someone HAS to market the invoke, and cshell shouldn't be brought about with a whimper.

    MS should be making a big deal out of these things.
    05-02-2017 06:48 PM
  6. kaktus1389's Avatar
    Well since Dan mentioned that they got some new info about CShell, this might be true. He also said they are going to write about it in the following weeks, if not at the time of Build.
    Timbre70 and Drael646464 like this.
    05-02-2017 11:55 PM
  7. milkyway's Avatar
    Mark my words: they won't even mention W10M at Build
    Timbre70 likes this.
    05-03-2017 01:16 AM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well since Dan mentioned that they got some new info about CShell, this might be true. He also said they are going to write about it in the following weeks, if not at the time of Build.
    Oh oh, that's something. Where did he mention he has some new info about cshell?
    05-03-2017 01:40 AM
  9. Drael646464's Avatar
    Mark my words: they won't even mention W10M at Build
    They don't have to. Cshell is for every windows. But you know what I could be wrong about it being at build. They may want to roll our Cortana skills api, neon, and cshell at the same time, perhaps with redstone 3.
    05-03-2017 01:42 AM
  10. milkyway's Avatar
    They don't have to. Cshell is for every windows. But you know what I could be wrong about it being at build. They may want to roll our Cortana skills api, neon, and cshell at the same time, perhaps with redstone 3.
    "That's my prediction, MS will demo cshell running on windows 10 mobile and other devices at build in a few weeks."

    Maybe they will show CShell (but I don't think so, it's probably slated now for RS4) - but you said they will show it on W10M. W10M won't even get RS3
    05-03-2017 02:56 AM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    "That's my prediction, MS will demo cshell running on windows 10 mobile and other devices at build in a few weeks."

    Maybe they will show CShell (but I don't think so, it's probably slated now for RS4) - but you said they will show it on W10M. W10M won't even get RS3
    Say whut? of course w10 mobile gets redstone 3. MS announced that they planned to give cshell to win10m in the CU, they just didn't get it finished on time like the people feature. Both people and cshell are still coming to mobile. Why would they bother doing insider updates and saying they were still developing publically if they weren't developing? Is it all some complicated conspiracy to fool mobile users? :P

    I've never even heard the worst of winmobile doomsdayers saying win10m won't get redstone 3!

    Anyway, it seems to me, that mobile would be involved in a cshell demo. Logically. Just consider -

    Why? Because its a scaling UI.

    You'd want to show the UI scale over IoT core, mobile, tablet, desktop and console.

    There's little point in showing a scaling UI, if you don't get to see it scale.

    And what shows that scaling best? A smaller devices, displayed on progressively bigger screens.

    So you might show a watch or smart device scaling, a phone and a tablet. Or at minimum the actual UIs themselves, and what device sizes they represent. Although knowing demo's unless they are going low key, having hardware is usually preferred.

    The new HP might make a good candidate to show it off.
    DennisvdG likes this.
    05-03-2017 03:21 AM
  12. milkyway's Avatar
    Say whut? of course w10 mobile gets redstone 3. MS announced that they planned to give cshell to win10m in the CU, they just didn't get it finished on time like the people feature. Both people and cshell are still coming to mobile. Why would they bother doing insider updates and saying they were still developing publically if they weren't developing? Is it all some complicated conspiracy to fool mobile users? :P

    I've never even heard the worst of winmobile doomsdayers saying win10m won't get redstone 3!

    Anyway, it seems to me, that mobile would be involved in a cshell demo. Logically. Just consider -

    Why? Because its a scaling UI.

    You'd want to show the UI scale over IoT core, mobile, tablet, desktop and console.

    There's little point in showing a scaling UI, if you don't get to see it scale.

    And what shows that scaling best? A smaller devices, displayed on progressively bigger screens.

    So you might show a watch or smart device scaling, a phone and a tablet. Or at minimum the actual UIs themselves, and what device sizes they represent. Although knowing demo's unless they are going low key, having hardware is usually preferred.

    The new HP might make a good candidate to show it off.
    No, they never said anything about CShell. All we know about that is hearsay. We actually don't know if W10M will get RS3 - but the feature2 branch is a sign that W10 is now in maintenance mode and that all future work will go to W10oA.
    05-03-2017 03:27 AM
  13. Drael646464's Avatar
    No, they never said anything about CShell. All we know about that is hearsay. We actually don't know if W10M will get RS3 - but the feature2 branch is a sign that W10 is now in maintenance mode and that all future work will go to W10oA.
    Oh wow, turns out you are right about that. That's a lot of rumours from many people about it though.

    The feature2 thing has been addressed by the insiders dan knows, dans mentioined that on the front page many times. According to him, its not a deadend, just a temporary fork. He's not really incentivised to lie about something like that, as the runner of this site either.

    Someone from Microsoft tweeted 'of course work is ongoing on windows mobile' or something similar.

    I can see no reason why MS would abandon its "one OS to rule them all" vision in the form of mobile now, unless they had a replacement OS to roll out nearly ready for later this year. And they had windows on arm for proto ready last year. So why would they have rolled out the CU, if that was their plan?

    Windows on arm, would require a lot of work to get on a smartphone platform.

    Windows on arm is quite tricky as a mobile smartphone OS. You see no mobile OSes are real time multi-taskers. Not ios, not android not win10m. (Well bb10 is, but it runs little services and is limited to max 8 apps).

    While its no big deal if you burn through a tablet in a few hours, its a major deal on a phone. The level of modification to energy consumption for windows proper is quite severe. Windows 10 as a platform was not designed for low battery consumption. Its been engineered in that direction because of tablets and desktops, and they are surely working on it, but its big work. You have to throttle cpu, you have to hibernate apps. Windows 10 proper, does not hibernate or cap apps, or services. Its not sufficient as is for a smartphone platform. Android has been refinining its ram management services for a long time too.

    On a tablet this is no issue - bigger batteries, less reliance on battery life. On a smartphone its very important you get maximum life.

    MS has openly stated that arm is pitched at tablets, and notebooks. And they have said 'mobile is not a priority'.

    I'd be coloured extremely surprised if they released windows on arm, as a smartphone OS, with little apps to show for it, in some kind of rush.

    That would to me, be very premature. It should release on tablets and notebooks, long before any smartphone, because they can run win32s on their native screen size, thus allowing the growth of the UW platform via more users.

    In a few years it would make sense to retire win10 mobile, maybe scavenge it for parts for IoT core etc, when windows on arm is ready for smartphones. But I doubt that's this year unless MS is a lot better keeping secrets than it appears.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-03-2017 at 04:17 AM.
    05-03-2017 03:56 AM
  14. milkyway's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is NOT dead — but its future is far from guaranteed | Windows Central
    If you are refering to this article then there's no confirmation of any of the possibilities.

    Quote 1:
    "At least one source familiar with the matter claimed that the so-called Feature2 branch is just a temporary move and it will be folded back into "rs_prerelease" or Redstone 3 later."

    Quote 2:
    "But if it's a permanent thing, things get a little trickier.
    If it is a perpetual measure, then the Feature2 branch is looking a lot like a maintenance branch ("sustained engineering," in developer lingo) designed to cater to the remaining users who still want Windows in their pockets."
    05-03-2017 04:15 AM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    Windows 10 Mobile is NOT dead — but its future is far from guaranteed | Windows Central
    If you are refering to this article then there's no confirmation of any of the possibilities.

    Quote 1:
    "At least one source familiar with the matter claimed that the so-called Feature2 branch is just a temporary move and it will be folded back into "rs_prerelease" or Redstone 3 later."

    Quote 2:
    "But if it's a permanent thing, things get a little trickier.
    If it is a perpetual measure, then the Feature2 branch is looking a lot like a maintenance branch ("sustained engineering," in developer lingo) designed to cater to the remaining users who still want Windows in their pockets."
    Perhaps that's so. Last I read he seemed quite confident about that (maybe he's got more than one source saying that now?). On twitter he downright opposed the notion that win10m was in maintanence, argued that it was just temporary. He seems quite confident, maybe that's his misplaced certainty idk....

    But ignoring all that...

    Does it seem plausible to you that they have WoA ready, with smartphone shell made, and battery optimisation good enough to compete with the big boys on phones, and wish to release it on a phone, with shiny new hardware, this year with the level of apps we have now built up to support it, first thing as their first WoA device? (rather than work on tablets and notebooks to create a "bridge" for the UW platform, grow the store, and let that settle before even attempting it)

    And if not, does it seem like anything other than just a wee bit silly to kill your existing platform before the replacement is ready, at least a year or two before your next product is even ready?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to throw w10 mobile users a bone and give them the fringe benefits of other more popular platforms like cshell and Cortana skills api, to keep a small team on the task? When there is already a tie in, in terms of coding hours (especially when those features might actually improve mindshare etc of windows on a mobile device).

    I mean, that's all the CU was, a trickle down. And that's all Cortana skills api and cshell would be if they intend to kill the platform (if its even possible to battery optimise WoA enough without fundamentally making it no longer "windows proper")

    I just can't see any sense in killing the platform yet. It would be an obvious shot in your own foot. I'm not even sure they'll ever do it.

    IoT core runs uwa crossplatform apps only. You can't put 4gb of ram in a dehumifier reasonably for a long time. And it makes no money, only costs. The platform will remain fractured even if they do bring in WoA for phones. There are heat, battery and hardware scaling reasons why "one windows" isn't yet 100 percent viable across all devices, outside of universal crossplatform apps, and onecore.

    If they could get the battery optimisation good, this year - what would the budget WoA device look like? Could it have 4gb of ram, and the latest snapdragon processor? If such a thing was released it would have minimal impact on the UW platform, because it would be too elite.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-03-2017 at 04:40 AM.
    05-03-2017 04:28 AM
  16. milkyway's Avatar
    Well, it would not be the first time the "strategy" of MS doesn't make any sense
    Truth is: nobody knows what's up with W10M.
    My assumption was that the "strategy" here is that MS fades it out really slowly. That's why they did cut 60% of all their users (again) with the Creators Update, even if there is no real technical argument behind this. They want to diminish their user base so that the outcry is smaller when they end W10M for good.
    But who knows really? Maybe I'm just plain wrong
    05-03-2017 04:55 AM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    This is as good as we'll probably get on microsofts future phone strategy - ie waiting to invent the next category:

    Satya Nadella comments on future Windows phones: 'I'm sure we'll make more' | Windows Central
    05-03-2017 05:17 AM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well, it would not be the first time the "strategy" of MS doesn't make any sense
    Truth is: nobody knows what's up with W10M.
    My assumption was that the "strategy" here is that MS fades it out really slowly. That's why they did cut 60% of all their users (again) with the Creators Update, even if there is no real technical argument behind this. They want to diminish their user base so that the outcry is smaller when they end W10M for good.
    But who knows really? Maybe I'm just plain wrong
    I don't think that's why they cut people from the CU. I think its far more practical than that - they've already been supported _way_ longer than anyone else would have. Old revision phones, on new revision OSes, and so many phones to support compatibility wise does two things MS wouldn't want. A) It makes the OS look bad, by running it poorly, slow and buggy b) it increases the costs of maintaining windows 10m, when essentially they want a minimal crew on this, porting desktop features.
    05-03-2017 05:20 AM
  19. milkyway's Avatar
    Hate to say I told you so, but: no CShell at Build, no W10M at Build and no confirmation that RS3 will come to W10M
    05-12-2017 03:16 AM
  20. faisalbaba's Avatar
    We may will hear cshell at may 23 event and future of windows mobile

    Sent from mTalk
    05-12-2017 03:43 AM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well I was half wrong and half-right. They did mention "fluent design", and they even released Cortana skills in a very limited preview.

    But no cshell yet. I think that's still a good turn out, and Cortana skills does work better on windows devices than other devices, so its a plus for win10 mobile users, especially when its actually released.
    05-12-2017 05:26 AM
  22. Drael646464's Avatar
    We may will hear cshell at may 23 event and future of windows mobile

    Sent from mTalk
    Well that event has me REALLY puzzled now.

    You see it can't be the invoke - that's been announced and demo'd. They've said no new SP or SB, and that's not new anyway. It's not mixed reality - they would have announced that when they announced the others at build.

    Windows on ARM has been stated, doesn't come till the end of the year.

    So what does that leave? It has to forfil the definition of "whats next", which means it must be paradigm breaking, but also nothing we expect.

    I guess it could be they announce cshell BUT what kind of "whats next" hardware?

    Kind of a head scratcher. Really dying to find out now!
    05-12-2017 05:28 AM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    Hate to say I told you so, but: no CShell at Build, no W10M at Build and no confirmation that RS3 will come to W10M
    rs3 has already been said by the insider team to be coming to mobile after its branched back in and they finish work on onecore. Feature2 is only for allowing further work on onecore. We've already had official word on that.

    But your right about cshell. I was on point on Cortana skills, AND "neon", but missed the boat there. Maybe it'll be announced later - would seem silly to reform the base OS design language and not put cshell in at the same time. Its doubling the work.
    05-12-2017 05:33 AM
  24. milkyway's Avatar
    rs3 has already been said by the insider team to be coming to mobile after its branched back in and they finish work on onecore. Feature2 is only for allowing further work on onecore. We've already had official word on that.

    But your right about cshell. I was on point on Cortana skills, AND "neon", but missed the boat there. Maybe it'll be announced later - would seem silly to reform the base OS design language and not put cshell in at the same time. Its doubling the work.
    Do you have an official quote about RS3 coming to W10M?
    Redstone 3 is now the Windows 10 'Fall Creators Update'
    "Instead, currently supported (Redstone 2) smartphones will be getting 'feature2' updates, which does include updates to core security, networking, encryption, Cortana, Edge, and so on...."
    05-12-2017 05:56 AM
  25. faisalbaba's Avatar
    I thinks rs3 will not coming to even support phones and windows 10 arm is the future of windows phone ,Microsoft may show full windows 10 on phone in may 23 event

    Sent from mTalk
    05-12-2017 06:01 AM
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