01-11-2018 01:05 PM
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  1. Dusteater's Avatar
    The other thing missing is any way to use your phone in the car. This was the number 1 reason I left for iPhone. Apple CarPlay is great. Since I drive a lot for work, this is important functionality. Microsoft could and should have supported MirrorLink, but they chose to ignore people who drive cars. Even now, their Groove app on iOS doesn't support CarPlay, while Amazon Music does. That's why I didn't renew my Groove subscription. They simply don't get cars. I suppose it's because no one on campus knows how to drive, they all take the Microsoft shuttles to work. Until they have Continuum in the car, I would never consider buying a Microsoft device. Apple is just light years ahead.
    06-07-2017 01:09 PM
  2. Mark Ahmadea's Avatar
    I'm still a bit confused by the CShell, hopefully Dan or Jason can clarify. They're mentioning that it will only run UWP, does that mean that it's just a shape-changing version of Windows 10 S, without the ability to run .exe/x86 programs when connected to a laptop or docked, that is also not upgradeable to Windows 10 Pro? And what happens to the x86 desktop apps that were ported to the store using the desktop bridge but don't resize well for a device with a small screen. How does CShell work with these ported programs?
    06-07-2017 01:21 PM
  3. remmo's Avatar
    You may be wondering what happened to Microsoft's ambitions in the mobile space. The company has been creating a lot of hardware lately, but it's focused on its Surface-branded line of devices running 'full' Windows. A new Windows Mobile handset hasn't been in the rumors for quite some time now.

    That changes today, because a new unconfirmed report now claims that Microsoft is testing just such a device. The revelation apparently comes from two different sources inside the company, so it may be accurate. The bad news? The phone is said to be running a "different" branch of Windows Mobile.

    This has a UI that is different from what we're used to seeing in Windows 10 Mobile, but it's not set in stone yet because it's still "early days" for the development of this new interface. Yes, you read that correctly. Once again, Microsoft may be looking to "reinvent" the mobile experience, in yet another desperate attempt to set its OS apart from its rivals.

    And yes, this could in fact mean a new 'cut' in support for older Windows Mobile apps, which aren't going to work with this new UI. Silverlight apps in particular seem doomed.

    Even if all of this is true now, keep in mind that plans change, and they may be altered significantly in the coming months, before that phone that's currently in testing sees the light of day. Speaking of which, it's very unclear when the new handset might become available - it could be as much as a year from now, or "less if it receives good reviews internally and gets fast tracked".

    Microsoft is reportedly testing a new phone running a new branch of Windows Mobile - GSMArena.com news
    Reboot to what?
    Another iteration of Windows?

    Since the introduction of the iOS, the rise of Android and the fall of Windows Mobile/Phone, the message is clear: nobody wants Windows on a mobile device.
    If MS is planning to reboot its mobile OS platform, it should go to something non-Windows related.
    And when I say "non-Windows", I mean MS should not use the NT kernel at all.
    But if there's no choice, then at least don't call it Windows, and not make it look like Windows, otherwise, it will fail miserably again and again and again.
    ZantReve and libra89 like this.
    06-07-2017 01:36 PM
  4. Mars2003's Avatar
    It's too late for me, I've switched to Android
    ZantReve likes this.
    06-07-2017 01:40 PM
  5. Williaml99's Avatar
    I don't care if they reboot, punt pass or re-invent the game. Just as long as they do something before I have to change platforms for my wife and I.

    Thanks
    Bill
    Last edited by Williaml99; 06-07-2017 at 01:42 PM. Reason: spelling
    kingtigre likes this.
    06-07-2017 01:41 PM
  6. Ismail Mohd's Avatar
    The reboot is not a bad option. However, Microsoft needs to make high-end phones which could compete with iPhone, Samsung Galaxy and Pixel. Windows Store requires some more enhancements with more apps. A section with only Microsoft apps needs to be added to the store.
    ZantReve likes this.
    06-07-2017 01:55 PM
  7. eddlang's Avatar
    As long as they don't reboot the app platform, they would most probably be ok. Keep UWP and simply improve it.

    The problem with past reboots was coming up with new app platforms every time, which were not directly and fully compatible with the old ones:

    WP7 -> WP8 -> WP8.1/W8 universal (WinRT) -> UWP

    Developers hate repeating things, even if they don't have to redo the whole code. This is one of the reasons that iOS and android succeeded with apps. Their app platforms were never rebooted, IINM.
    nate0, ZantReve and Blomsternisse like this.
    06-07-2017 01:58 PM
  8. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    Unfortunately, they have put themselves in a position where they have to do a reboot. And those of us who have been with WPs for a while are all too familiar with what's going on. Without high quality, big name apps and a massive influx of developers, a reboot will most likely lead to nowhere. I work with young people every day for a living, and from my experience, I can tell you that apps are where it's at. Whenever we go to our computer lab to work on actual PCs, the math or reading programs that we use are designed and function just like apps because that's what young people are used to seeing. All of our "teacher tools" that we sit through hours of professional development learning about are all app-based and are only found on iOS and Android. The app mindset is real, and if MS doesn't solve that problem, nothing will change. Now, all of the above is from the standpoint of everyday consumers, which, regardless of what has been said, I think should be a target demographic for MS.
    nate0, ZantReve and libra89 like this.
    06-07-2017 02:12 PM
  9. jazman_777's Avatar
    Microsoft's failure at marketing is part of its DNA. It's not just a matter of Microsoft "getting it together" or "figuring it out", it can't any more than a pig can fly.
    nate0 likes this.
    06-07-2017 02:23 PM
  10. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Didn't they just launch Windows 10 Mobile... What's the point of sticking around if they will reboot every other year and cut phone
    Exactly
    They are continually shooting themselves in the foot by doing all these reboots.

    Now thinking about buying an iPaq and loading it on my NT 4 Workstation.
    libra89 and Blomsternisse like this.
    06-07-2017 03:56 PM
  11. Random DS's Avatar
    I don't think it's a reboot, just a transition. UWP apps, which will be the ones that'll work on the new version are a thing for like two years now, and we have many UWP apps already. Other than that, Silverlight apps really need to go. They're not modern by any means. Lastly, there is not a single reason why Microsoft couldn't push this new version to existing devices. And even if, for whatever reason they don't do it, UWP apps will continue to function on older versions (alongside Silverlight apps). Not getting OS updates for your phone isn't the end of the world, for example, android users don't seem to be bothered at all because of It 😁
    nate0 likes this.
    06-07-2017 04:37 PM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    Dont get your hopes up. I love the Windows 10 mobile OS, even as I liked Windows Phone 7+ but, Microsoft NEEDS to get a clue on how to run a business and marketing sometimes. Really clueless if they wanted a CHANCE to succeed in the mobile market.

    It's a joke. "We are not going after the consumer market anymore", then, support is dead, no new models, No promition, no new apps or promition for Devs. Only models are that carriers have are older models that are not even supported any more (for the most part). Apps are falling off by the hour, never mind day. Marketshare goes from about 5% down to 0.5 and where is Microsoft ? Hello ?

    They just give up and they want to come back ? Sure maybe they can build up some marketshare but, it's going to cost them 2X of the billions they spent before to even HAVE A CHANCE.

    Never mind they need to have Anroid apps or iOS apps with a store that can be used directly, so the app gap is not an issue.

    I'll tell you this, if Microsoft came up with a new device that supported Android or iOS device (for the app selection) plus their selection of their own (for tiles, and other WM features), I would jump back in a second...

    It really seems like Microsoft is just so out of touch with the consumer...
    While I agree that MS has not done well in the mobile market, they are far from clueless on how to run a business. That's a bit of an exaggeration.
    Also, what is promition?

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    06-07-2017 04:52 PM
  13. mobilejk's Avatar
    All you can do is laugh. Microsoft always with the head fake. "iPhone will never catch on...", "Mobile first...", ect, ect, ect...
    Truly, I don't think even the top of the food chain at Microsoft even knows what they want to do. All they know is their mindshare keeps falling while Googles and Apples' keeps growing. Why? Um, they actually INVEST in their mobile platforms. Until Microsoft actually does that with actions instead of just empty words they will continue their decent into obscurity.
    Awhispersecho likes this.
    06-07-2017 05:09 PM
  14. TgeekB's Avatar
    I'm pessimistic. I think Microsoft has completely, totally, utterly lost in the mobile space. Nothing can change this course now as the Android-Apple duopoly is cemented. They had momentum with WP7 but IMO squandered a good thing.

    Abject disregard for quality doesn't help matters, either. I mean, why does WiFi keep disconnecting on my 950? Why does the screen stay black when trying to end a phone call? Why are so many notifications missed? This is BASIC FUNCTIONALITY that they're unwilling or unable to make right. To go off topic briefly, people holler "hard reset, hard reset, hard reset" on these forums like it's a requirement to make W10M function properly. No user should ever have to do that. This software is rotten to the core and deserves to die. Because of this disaster MS has lost my business. I don't care if a Surface Phone craps gold nuggets, I'm NOT interested.
    While I agree that there is currently an Android/Apple duopoly in mobile, I disagree that is cemented. Nothing in tech is forever, it is forever changing. We're just too impatient.
    MS is building for the future, so is Apple and Google. They're just coming from different directions.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    PerfectReign, a5cent and libra89 like this.
    06-07-2017 05:10 PM
  15. nate0's Avatar
    All you can do is laugh. Microsoft always with the head fake. "iPhone will never catch on...", "Mobile first...", ect, ect, ect...
    Truly, I don't think even the top of the food chain at Microsoft even knows what they want to do. All they know is their mindshare keeps falling while Googles and Apples' keeps growing. Why? Um, they actually INVEST in their mobile platforms. Until Microsoft actually does that with actions instead of just empty words they will continue their decent into obscurity.
    What would Microsoft investing in their mobile platform look like to you?
    06-07-2017 06:43 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    I'm still a bit confused by the CShell, hopefully Dan or Jason can clarify. They're mentioning that it will only run UWP, does that mean that it's just a shape-changing version of Windows 10 S, without the ability to run .exe/x86 programs when connected to a laptop or docked, that is also not upgradeable to Windows 10 Pro? And what happens to the x86 desktop apps that were ported to the store using the desktop bridge but don't resize well for a device with a small screen. How does CShell work with these ported programs?
    The best way to think of CShell is as a launcher. You may be familiar with the various launchers on Android (Nova, Arrow, Pixel, etc). CShell is the launcher for Windows. It implements things like the desktop background, the start menu, the task switcher, the task bar and it is tightly integrated with the Windows file explorer.

    Currently, W10M, W10 for IoT, Hololens and W10 have different launchers. CShell will become the common launcher for all of them. On phone sized devices it will shrink down to look something like what we have on W10M today. On desktops it will likely resemble what we already have on W10.

    Currently, phone sized devices supporting continuum give us a very sparse desktop experience when they are hooked up to a larger monitor. With CShell, phones could provide the exact same desktop experience as a real desktop computer. The opposite is also true. MS could install full W10 on a phone sized device and allow CShell to provide the user with a start screen and task switching experience similar to what W10M provides today. CShell will provide a much more similar set of features on any sized screen.

    The article the OP linked to is pretty messed up. The launcher and the UI technology apps use to compose/render/generate their own UI are completely unrelated (or at least they should be). There is no technical reason why existing Silverlight apps couldn't be launched via CShell. MS might strip every OS that ships with CShell of Silverlight support, but then that lack of support isn't directly CShell's fault.

    I suspect the author misunderstood something and is probably conveying things that don't quite line up with what MS actually has planned. IMHO it's unreasonable to conclude anything based solely on what is written in that article.
    nate0, techiez and Player Piano like this.
    06-07-2017 07:28 PM
  17. Mike G's Avatar
    I believe Microsoft decided to halt its own mobile ecosystem (retrenchment) precisely because they knew One Core requires another reboot which would take more than a year to complete. This probably led to the reasonable concern that selling legacy devices and allowing continued development of non-UWP apps right up to the day yet another new and incompatible architecture was ready for release, would alienate customers and developers even more (if you can imagine)! Even though I've been just as traumatized as the next fan, I'm starting to see this big gamble on One Core as a bold and smart move over the long term.
    06-07-2017 08:14 PM
  18. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    What choice do they have?

    Abandon the market?
    06-07-2017 09:06 PM
  19. Timbre70's Avatar
    It's a titanic.
    06-07-2017 09:55 PM
  20. sd4f's Avatar
    I think there's one easy metric to see whether their new strategy will be a success. I know a lot of people will groan, but it's when snapchat becomes an app. Reason why I say this (i've never used snapchat) is because it's emblematic of a world which doesn't need microsoft. It lives only as apps on two phone OS's.

    Windows on phone will only be a success when a company like snap has no choice but to support the platform. Even with full windows on a mobile device, I really see no compelling reason to go to it. MS is snookered, and they may not have any decent way out of it.
    06-07-2017 10:50 PM
  21. sameersaab's Avatar
    sounds like a sh*tty idea. Windows Phone fans never wanted a desktop like experience on a phone, which is what seems to be happening. The phone experience up until 8.1 was way better than on the PC.
    06-08-2017 12:59 AM
  22. milkyway's Avatar
    sounds like a sh*tty idea. Windows Phone fans never wanted a desktop like experience on a phone, which is what seems to be happening. The phone experience up until 8.1 was way better than on the PC.
    I think you didn't get what CShell is all about. CShell gives an UI which adapts (not only scales) to your screen size. So if you use a phone (4" - 6") you have your mobile UI, if you go beyond that you'll get the desktop UI
    nate0 likes this.
    06-08-2017 01:16 AM
  23. Salen's Avatar
    It's not just about the UI - it's the services. At least for me. After the Lumia 950 getting ****ty reviews, I first switched to BB10 to just experience the death of another good OS there. Now, a Nexus 5x is my electronic assistant, and honestly - Android looks and feels a little bit like patchwork.

    How the front end is solved, I don't really care about. All I want it to be, is to be informative (and the tiles are awesome for that)

    What I really miss on my Android Phone is that uniformity in services, Windows Phone offered to me. Cortana on Android is more like a sad joke, while Google Now just puts everything into the Google Account (I refuse switching to). I often used the feature to my Phone reminding me to topics connected to a certain person or place. Sure, Google certainly offers something like that - but am I able to set these reminders easily on PC and Laptop without needing to start some apps? Natively on both, PC and phone?

    All CShell is giving me is hope, that MS in fact isn't letting Windows on phones die.

    And regarding to the Silverlight issue - I don't like Silverlight, as I dislike Flash. Sure, there are some essential Apps written in Silverlight, but honestly - there are about 10 to 20 essential Apps you need. Why isn't MS just getting in touch with Facebook, telling them to program WhatsApp as a Universal App while covering the expenses?
    06-08-2017 02:47 AM
  24. techiez's Avatar
    I think there's one easy metric to see whether their new strategy will be a success. I know a lot of people will groan, but it's when snapchat becomes an app. Reason why I say this (i've never used snapchat) is because it's emblematic of a world which doesn't need microsoft. It lives only as apps on two phone OS's.

    Windows on phone will only be a success when a company like snap has no choice but to support the platform. Even with full windows on a mobile device, I really see no compelling reason to go to it. MS is snookered, and they may not have any decent way out of it.
    Also to add, their retrenchment is the reason they will struggle capturing consumer market again but probably Ms is not targeting that, they will go after enterprises.
    With Nokia, they inherited solid distribution networks in many countries and MS simply abandoned them, just look at surface devices, despite their popularity their availability is limited outside US. It works for them because they leave the 2in1 markets to OEMs but same strategy will not work with mobiles. They need first party hardware and they need it to be available in most of the regions that formerly embraced WPs
    06-08-2017 04:47 AM
  25. hamphlet's Avatar
    I believe Microsoft decided to halt its own mobile ecosystem (retrenchment) precisely because they knew One Core requires another reboot which would take more than a year to complete. This probably led to the reasonable concern that selling legacy devices and allowing continued development of non-UWP apps right up to the day yet another new and incompatible architecture was ready for release, would alienate customers and developers even more (if you can imagine)! Even though I've been just as traumatized as the next fan, I'm starting to see this big gamble on One Core as a bold and smart move over the long term.
    Erm yes that's fine up to a point but rather than having some alienated mobile customers they no longer have any customers at all and they ain't coming back. Think I know which is worse.
    techiez likes this.
    06-08-2017 07:29 AM
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