10-13-2017 10:14 AM
152 ... 4567
tools
  1. jimmyclarke1's Avatar
    Well CShell is just leaked as a build and it looks pretty stable. How will this take Windows Mobile to the next level?
    Hopefully CShell will open up accessibility to all apps, which are required to woo back customers. In which case I would move directly back to windows.
    06-19-2017 12:37 AM
  2. GhostEchelon's Avatar
    The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

    It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

    This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

    It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.
    You could be very well right on that. With that said it may not come to the Lumia 950/XL seeing that at the moment Feature2 is the next update that will come out to Current phones and may be the last for Lumia 950/XL. Though in regards of your statement. Anything can change from this point on. Once again its a internal build that was not meant to be pushed out that got pushed out. One day it could run on the current phones that Microsoft are supporting. We don't know for sure what Microsoft has plan. I see your reasoning behind on your thoughts. Though anything can change from this point on.
    06-19-2017 04:05 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    You could be very well right on that. With that said it may not come to the Lumia 950/XL seeing that at the moment Feature2 is the next update that will come out to Current phones and may be the last for Lumia 950/XL. Though in regards of your statement. Anything can change from this point on. Once again its a internal build that was not meant to be pushed out that got pushed out. One day it could run on the current phones that Microsoft are supporting. We don't know for sure what Microsoft has plan. I see your reasoning behind on your thoughts. Though anything can change from this point on.
    Feature2 doesn't mean we don't get feature updates. There's some coming late US summer for enterprise users, and the new keyboard is confirmed, and we were also promised app based updates like timeline, files on demand, and cloud clipboard.

    Being feature2, doesn't really many anything, except that mobile is a little sidelined.

    That said, at some point, when their are new 64 bit phones out, or if that happens, no doubt the Lumia's will be sunseted. Just depends on when that happens.

    We aren't on the top of the list, but we get things by way of desktop-ish anyway.

    As for cshell, I don't think its coming this year. MSFT has a bi-yearly release schedule, and if the leaked state is any indication it's not near baked. We might see it next year IMO.

    I agree that its hard to guess exactly what msft has planned. They might release a new Lumia this year, the could release a surface type phone next year, they might do neither and rely on OEMs. They could support current Lumia's quite fully until some way through next year OR the update at the end of this year will be the last one (although thinking about the low priority thing, I think that's unlikely, as the updates they are doing will probably run over deadline - the last big update would be more likely to be early next year).

    There's a lot of guessing, at the end of the day, I am happy if the apps keep getting new features, which by virtual of UWP, they will. Win10m is already a beautiful OS.
    06-19-2017 06:03 AM
  4. xela kufner1's Avatar
    Well CShell is just leaked as a build and it looks pretty stable. How will this take Windows Mobile to the next level?
    how do i get it
    06-19-2017 09:03 AM
  5. Neill Baldwin's Avatar
    Hopefully CShell will open up accessibility to all apps, which are required to woo back customers. In which case I would move directly back to windows.
    This would be what I would be interested in. Not being able to watch Amazon Prime or my cable on my phone is a huge drawback for me.
    06-19-2017 09:12 AM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    That said, at some point, when their are new 64 bit phones out, or if that happens, no doubt the Lumia's will be sunseted. Just depends on when that happens.
    And again you're attributing something to "64 bitedness" which is entirely unrelated. Lumias will eventually be sunseted, sure, but the bitedness of the OS will have nothing to do with it. :-(

    Almost every consumer OS under the sun exists in a 32 and a 64 bit version. There is absolutely no reason for one to go away because the other becomes available. These days it's not a huge effort to create both in tandem. It's actually easier that way.

    There isn't much the bitedness of an OS is directly related to. Suggesting otherwise is just misinformation.

    The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

    It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

    This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

    It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.
    Agreed. That's the best argument for CShell eventually being released on the x3. I don't think it's anywhere as reliable an indicator of CShell being relesaed on the x3 as you think it is, but it is at least reasonable.

    That is in contrast to the very unreasonable position that the bitedness of the hardware on which we accidentally caught our first glimpse of CShell means anything (for all the reasons previously mentioned).
    Last edited by a5cent; 06-19-2017 at 07:35 PM.
    xandros9 likes this.
    06-19-2017 01:05 PM
  7. dorelse's Avatar
    Feature2 = WP 7.8. We'll get a little bit of love, but not much.

    Anything new & exciting will need the SD835. They've already said the W10A requires the SD835, and they're fully invested in making that a reality. They're not going to pull devs away from that effort to keep enhancing our forked & dead ended legacy phones.

    Sure they'll want to support the Elite X3 & Idol 4s as they're still sold today...but this is minimal bug & security fixes. ala feature 4/ feature 5 until it can be sunset as well.

    That's my assessment.
    a5cent likes this.
    06-19-2017 02:35 PM
  8. Drael646464's Avatar
    Almost every consumer OS under the sun exists in a 32 and a 64 bit version. There is absolutely no reason for one to go away because the other becomes available. These days it's not a huge effort to create both in tandem. It's actually easier that way.
    The new iOS no longer supports 32 bit apps. So apparently there is at least some reason.

    Agreed. That's the best argument for CShell eventually being released on the x3. I don't think it's anywhere as reliable an indicator of CShell being relesaed on the x3 as you think it is, but it is at least reasonable.
    Well that was probably a large part of the point I was trying to make, even if I communicated it poorly. Glad we are in agreement about something :)

    Feature2 = WP 7.8. We'll get a little bit of love, but not much.

    Anything new & exciting will need the SD835. They've already said the W10A requires the SD835, and they're fully invested in making that a reality. They're not going to pull devs away from that effort to keep enhancing our forked & dead ended legacy phones.

    Sure they'll want to support the Elite X3 & Idol 4s as they're still sold today...but this is minimal bug & security fixes. ala feature 4/ feature 5 until it can be sunset as well.

    That's my assessment.
    We don't really need OS feature updates of any deep magnitude. We get app based feature updates as desktop trickle down. Stuff like timeline, and files on demand. Sprinkle in a few things like the new keyboard we've been promised and the supposed "enterprise features" late US summer, and its probably a better story that 7.8 IMO. Indeed, I can't think of anything from any version of android that has been as interesting to me, even if it is the result of a low priority branch :P

    Windows on arm will be great for tablets, laptops, and brilliant for the UWP platform (far more powerful than windows s), because native apps will run much aster, and provide a visibly superior UX than emulated non-native apps. Which will also be good for current win10m users. So in a way, work on windows on arm, is work for phones, its work for the whole platform.
    Last edited by xandros9; 06-20-2017 at 11:58 AM.
    06-19-2017 08:00 PM
  9. nate0's Avatar
    Unfortunately they squandered their Continuum opportunity. The only place I cared about using it was in the car. They were a member of the CCC for years but resisted adding MirrorLink into W10M. We can see that Apple and Google already have Continuum like functionality in the car, and it is a game changer in mobile. Microsoft abandoning everyone who drives a car was the nail in the coffin. It's the only reason I left and went to iPhone. It's really frustrating to see they keep ignoring the car. The car is the most critical environment to have great support for. Until they get this, their mobile ambitions will be unsuccessful.
    I see your point only valid if they strictly stuck with a device or devices that are defined as a mobile phone. Plus that is what IoT is for, and is already running in cars.
    06-19-2017 11:46 PM
  10. milkyway's Avatar
    The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

    It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

    This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

    It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.
    They rolled out the IoT build. That's why all the phones (even the x3) ended with a bootloop. What Zac did not state was that what "magic" he did to get it to work on the x3.
    This build even works on a Lumia 635:
    a5cent likes this.
    06-20-2017 01:34 AM
  11. Drael646464's Avatar
    They rolled out the IoT build. That's why all the phones (even the x3) ended with a bootloop. What Zac did not state was that what "magic" he did to get it to work on the x3.
    This build even works on a Lumia 635:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB0wYvVXcAEVERT.jpg
    It must have been IoT enterprise rather than IoT core, if so, as IoT core doesn't have a UI as such, does it?
    06-20-2017 02:39 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    The new iOS no longer supports 32 bit apps. So apparently there is at least some reason.
    Okay, but their reason is one of choice, not necessity.

    In contrast to both Java apps (Android) and .NET apps (W10), both of which are typically CPU architecture neutral, most iOS apps are compiled for a specific CPU architecture. Whenever a 32 bit app is run on 64 iOS, then that mismatch causes some slight overhead whenever a thread of execution passes between OS and app boundaries. This is the exact same situation we've all lived with in the Windows world for over a decade. Most Windows users run a 64 bit OS, but anyone using MS Office typically has the 32 bit version installed. That's the same mismatch. 99.99% of users would never think to care about it.

    Anyway, by cutting off support for 32 bit apps, Apple is eliminating that slight overhead. There is no technical reason they must do it. It's just Apple's (admirable) perfectionism. It might? also be a way to nudge people with very old devices towards upgrading. It's definitely not a technical necessity.

    Well that was probably a large part of the point I was trying to make, even if I communicated it poorly. Glad we are in agreement about something :)
    Yeah. For me this wasn't about the x3 and the chances of it getting CShell. It was about the misunderstandings related to the bitedness of software. There is already so much misinformation out there, often times propagated by the technically illiterate tech press, that I feel we really don't need even more murkying of those waters. ;-)
    06-20-2017 07:34 AM
  13. Fava11's Avatar
    Looking forward to updating the 950 lumia win 10 mobile to Cshell
    06-20-2017 07:56 AM
  14. milkyway's Avatar
    Looking forward to updating the 950 lumia win 10 mobile to Cshell
    You will be disappointed
    06-20-2017 08:05 AM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    It's just Apple's (admirable) perfectionism.
    IDK, I think its more like a way to turn a buck, because apple has its consumers by the janglies, held in a little gilded cage.

    Devs stop making 32 bit apps, everyone HAS to move to the later OSes. Unless, shudder, they leave the apple ecosystem. Where would they go! *chuckles*

    So there is a reason to write bited specific software, and to write your OS to be exclusive. To juice the wallets of your consumers :P

    You will be disappointed
    I'm already disappointed. Where's my fifty virgins?
    Last edited by xandros9; 06-20-2017 at 11:53 AM.
    06-20-2017 08:07 AM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    IDK, I think its more like a way to turn a buck, because apple has its consumers by the janglies, held in a little gilded cage.

    Devs stop making 32 bit apps, everyone HAS to move to the later OSes. Unless, shudder, they leave the apple ecosystem. Where would they go! *chuckles*

    So there is a reason to write bited specific software, and to write your OS to be exclusive. To juice the wallets of your consumers :P
    lol, true. I should have been more specific and said there is no technical reason.

    Note however that devs wouldn't have to stop creating 32 bit apps. Apple is just not listing them in the app store. I'm not sure how that will play out, but if a lack of 32 bit apps in the store forces people to update to newer hardware, then it's definitely about the money. If that's not how it plays out (the less likely scenario IMHO), then forcing the availability of a 64 bit version of every app is just about matching bitedness of the app to the OS.
    Last edited by a5cent; 06-20-2017 at 06:27 PM.
    06-20-2017 08:46 AM
  17. HBLEY's Avatar
    Its "composable shell", a single adaptive shell/UI across all windows devices. So your mobile phone is identical to your desktop when plugged into a monitor, you can change between an entertainment interface and a productivity interface in windows desktop and on gaming consoles, possibly something in between for tablets, and a separate shell for the incoming dual screen Andromeda device.

    It, in addition to UWP, and onecore, is part of the whole "single windows operating system" philosophy Microsoft is working towards long term.

    So you have:

    One core (same across all Microsoft devices)

    The platform specific code/software stack

    Composable shell


    This way, all windows shares everything but the middle layer, which I suppose they may start to unify once the others are unified - eventually leading to a single "windows" that runs on everything, and just behaves differently depending on whats needed.
    Oh I see now. Thanks for the details.
    06-29-2017 04:19 AM
  18. Keith White Jr's Avatar
    They rolled out the IoT build. That's why all the phones (even the x3) ended with a bootloop. What Zac did not state was that what "magic" he did to get it to work on the x3.
    This build even works on a Lumia 635:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB0wYvVXcAEVERT.jpg

    How did you get a 635 to not go into the endless boot loop?
    07-01-2017 07:30 AM
  19. Keith White Jr's Avatar
    When CShell comes out, what's to stop everyone from just hacking the registry and getting it?
    07-01-2017 07:31 AM
  20. Drael646464's Avatar
    When CShell comes out, what's to stop everyone from just hacking the registry and getting it?
    That's a good question. Not one I have the answer to. Can you use the recovery tool, to push a build to a phone, via spoofing the registry?
    07-01-2017 10:49 AM
  21. milkyway's Avatar
    When CShell comes out, what's to stop everyone from just hacking the registry and getting it?
    Well, it could just not work because of missing drivers. Even a Lumia 520 can run the Creators Update but who knows what will change with the underlaying structure in future W10M builds
    nate0 likes this.
    07-02-2017 12:17 PM
  22. ryankelsey7's Avatar
    I doubt it will do much. Honestly I find the MS Apps have a more fluid experience on my shiny new Iphone than on either my 950xl or X3. (Though I like Outlook on W10M better than on Iphone.)

    I don't know the details yet, but my guess is that devs will need to build to a CShell spec and have compile scripts focused on CShell also. That will probably be as popular as WUP apps are today.
    I hate outlook on iphone. Its no different than iphones stock email app. I love it on w10m.
    nate0 likes this.
    07-21-2017 11:05 PM
  23. PerfectReign's Avatar
    I hate outlook on iphone. Its no different than iphones stock email app. I love it on w10m.
    Really? I've been happy, except for the fact that I can't pin the calendar icon to the home screen.

    I use outlook with my corporate account. Also, we will deprecate ActiveSync in the next year so I will have to use outlook.

    One thing on Outlook I've used heavily the past 20 or so years is the ability to drag an email over to my calendar to create an event. I use it even more now as I have close to 30 direct reports and no intermediate supervisors.

    I should also mention that I get between 400 and 700 emails a day. Most are CC's on things I need to be aware of but do not need further action or reply. Probably close to 100 are items I need to save and require follow up in a given time. These can be vendor information, purchase issues, performance evaluations, stuff my staff are doing that I need to review in a given time, or something I need to remember for my manager later.

    On WM10 I've been asking.for a schedule feature and now have it on Ios.



    I can set a swipe option to create a schedule. I just did this right now with an email I need to follow up on next week.



    I
    TgeekB likes this.
    07-22-2017 08:08 AM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    C-Shell to the current generation of Windows 10 Mobile users is pointless. It's really for some future device.
    Why is it written in 32 bit then, when new chipsets are all 64 bit?
    In summary, whether the device being used to demonstrate CShell integrates a 32 bit or a 64 bit CPU is entirely meaningless.
    We spent a dozen posts arguing over whether or not CShell being demonstrated on a 32 bit device suggested CShell would run on existing Lumias. You thought MS would not develop and demonstrate CShell on a Lumia 950 if they didn't also plan for CShell to eventually run on it. Why otherwise make the extra effort to target 32 bit devices, when all newer SoCs are 64 bit only?

    I told you there is no additional effort involved for targeting 32 bit devices. I told you that CShell being demonstrated on a 32 bit device meant squat in terms of the hardware CShell would eventually officially run on.

    As previously mentioned, the hardware CShell is developed and demonstrated on is pretty irrelevant (as it should be), because being a UI component means it is as far removed from low-level hardware concerns as any part of the OS can be. Since CShell never interacts directly with hardware, it can easily be moved from one hardware platform to another without requiring any modifications at all. More importantly, a Lumia 950 is stable and developers can intermittently and safely ignore all changes other developers make to the W10 branch. That makes the Lumia 950 a good development platform, even if CShell is never intended to run on it.

    Low and behold:

    It is true that for a while, Microsoft did continue compiling Redstone 3 builds of Windows 10 Mobile internally, but only to continue developing CShell on smaller, current engineering devices. However, I'm told that as of last month, that is no longer the case, as CShell is not coming to existing Windows phones.
    source

    CShell won't be coming to exiting 32 bit Lumias, despite the first demonstrations of CShell being on such devices.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-13-2017 at 10:08 AM. Reason: No meaningful changes
    milkyway and nate0 like this.
    08-07-2017 05:35 PM
  25. GhostEchelon's Avatar
    Sad part as many have good points on here. Its a shame to know that Cshell is not coming to Windows 10 Mobile since they will not be any RS3 at least for the Current phones out there right now.
    10-05-2017 04:38 AM
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