What do you think about the CShell?

[mikosoft]

I'm still wondering though, wouldn't you say that my view of what constitutes an OS is a lot closer to how the average consumer views and understands it?

I'm not sure if I would really go the "two OSes in one" route with an average consumer. Such a person doesn't even know what exactly an OS is and what it does and what it doesn't - I've experienced people equaling applications with OS such as "my Windows doesn't work - how so? - It won't load internet". In that case it's best to stay with "that is Windows and it can run your old apps and then these new ones that can use these tiles and notifications - see? And you can use that app on a windows phone as well, see? And it saves your data across windows devices, see?" - yeah, that would go out off hand pretty quickly for some but still it's better to keep it this way.

Probably the bigger issue for the user in this scenario is how can a common user tell the apps apart. If they don't install the apps themselves (which they rarely do, everybody has their PC guru) they don't really know if the app came from the store or not. Difference between one or 1,5 or 2-in-1 OS in that case is pretty useless. They view Windows as "that desktop with icons and start menu on my computer" and they often equal OS with computer or apps.

I'd probably see it useful for a particular group of users who don't view themselves as completely clueless but don't go any further than "OS is a software that runs on my computer".

 

[a5cent]

I'm not sure if I would really go the "two OSes in one" route with an average consumer. Such a person doesn't even know what exactly an OS is and what it does and what it doesn't - I've experienced people equaling applications with OS such as "my Windows doesn't work - how so? - It won't load internet". In that case it's best to stay with "that is Windows and it can run your old apps and then these new ones that can use these tiles and notifications - see? And you can use that app on a windows phone as well, see? And it saves your data across windows devices, see?" - yeah, that would go out off hand pretty quickly for some but still it's better to keep it this way.

Probably the bigger issue for the user in this scenario is how can a common user tell the apps apart. If they don't install the apps themselves (which they rarely do, everybody has their PC guru) they don't really know if the app came from the store or not. Difference between one or 1,5 or 2-in-1 OS in that case is pretty useless. They view Windows as "that desktop with icons and start menu on my computer" and they often equal OS with computer or apps.

I'd probably see it useful for a particular group of users who don't view themselves as completely clueless but don't go any further than "OS is a software that runs on my computer".

Yeah, Agreed.

I understand you wanting to explain that W10 can run Win32 and UWP apps, but that's not what I'm trying to explain here. I'm trying to explain how those two environments and their capabilities affect the OS (security, performance, reliability, ease-of-use) and how that makes W10 and W10M different.

For people who have no idea what an OS is, the whole concept of wanting to explain the difference makes no sense. So, the way I described my target audience (the average consumer) is waaaay off. *cough* ;-)

What I should have said is that it's meant for people who would visit a site like this, meaning enthusiasts or even the writers here at WCentral who are themselves often confused. Basically, people who are not developers but still want to understand the technology they are using.

 

[monterxz]

Well CShell is just leaked as a build and it looks pretty stable. How will this take Windows Mobile to the next level?:grin:

I think there is no place for smartphones any more in our world. Just remember, first there were Pocket PCs. Then someone added cellular module to them, and they became Communicators. After some time people started calling them Smartphones. But in their core they still are Pocket PCs with a cellular module inside.
Now we have lots of small PCs like Compustick and others, but without a screen and input device. I think it's time to merge them together. Actually I was waiting for this for ages. Why do we need to have several devices when we can have only one always nearby: in the pocket on the street, on the table connected to a large screen and keyboard at our desks.
I use my "phone" mostly not for calls but for internet access on the go. I don't want a Surface Phone, I want a Surface Mini with LTE.
I hope I'm not the only one, because in our democratic society majority decided that OneDrive placeholders were confusing

 

[vEEP pEEP]

What does this mean for my Nokia 930?

 

[sweatshopking]

cshell is too little too late. if it launched in 2015, great. 2018 is too little too late, and the industry has moved past MS again.

 

[hlov]

My question is why they are doing this? and what I mean is what do they want to achieve with it?
At the moment what it means for windows mobile is that they are killing it: The few current users won't be able to get it, none of MS managers use a windows phone anymore so how can they convinced a normal user to pay big money for another experiment when they will do the reboot thing again when their products don't sell.

On the business side is worst why a company will invest of pricey devices if is not supported. e.g companies who adopted the 950 XL or Elite who know not for sure that they devices are obsoleted now.

For me this is some "executive" decision where someone said make me a phone where I don't have to spend too much money in supporting it, the answer was windows on arm and cshell but apparently they ignore the issue of who is going to buy this? They are expecting to work as a Surface did but the main reason of the surface success was because most of the OEM devices on the 1k price range were crap while a MacBook air just worked and also looked nice, Surface filled up that gap. In mobility, at the moment, There's no appetite for being able to run photoshop or autocad on a phone. People use a mobile device for emails, browsing and entertainment and companies just need a safe way to access to their resources.


It's the first time I'm really pissed of and disappointed of the windows mobile reboot thing, I managed to sell my HD2, Omnia 7, Titan HD and 920 but who on the world is going to buy my 950 XL for a fair price (400) when they can get at least an iPhone 5s that provides access to all MS services and also to every mobile app in the world.

MS should commit to support properly the current windows mobile and not replace it with cshell, then at least they will have a chance for people to bet on the next upgrade but that's not going to happen.

 

[ndouni]

Hope they allow insiders to preview this ASAP

 

[KomakhidzeJaba]

Cshell is future of Windows Phone and it will be successful I think

 

[anon(5337086)]

Microsoft has to confirm their commitment to their Mobile OS first, since several news discussed that Windows Mobile won't move to Redstone 3, which includes CShell.
The odd thing that Windows OneCore was refined to adapt to any upgrades and improvements done to the OS, with no technical issues that prevent new upgrades.

 

[Richard Toft]

C she'll is the continuation of what Microsoft started with the 950, in truth its probably the continuation of what Microsoft started with the one windows. It does look great, very exciting but again Microsoft will really need to advertise this and ms is really good at not advertising great software and devices.

 

[Jazmac]

"We're particularly excited about CShell, if for no other reason than it's a definite step in the right direction for Windows 10 Mobile,"
Agreed and I say, its about time.

 

[Dusteater]

Unfortunately they squandered their Continuum opportunity. The only place I cared about using it was in the car. They were a member of the CCC for years but resisted adding MirrorLink into W10M. We can see that Apple and Google already have Continuum like functionality in the car, and it is a game changer in mobile. Microsoft abandoning everyone who drives a car was the nail in the coffin. It's the only reason I left and went to iPhone. It's really frustrating to see they keep ignoring the car. The car is the most critical environment to have great support for. Until they get this, their mobile ambitions will be unsuccessful.

 

[Asybuhari Hakim Mohamed Johari]

For us simpleton, the killer feature for then Windows Mobile was an efficient OS that have the same basic experience whether on SD2xx to the Giant-Slaying behemoth of a SD8xx series


Comes W10M kinda quashed every average user that wants a secure and smooth mobile experience that any Android (basic phone tends to lag on security updates) and iOS (dem price tho!)


After reading this thread, is it safe to assure that W10M or on-ARM will not be attainable by the average joe? If so, when will the tentative cut-off for the great Windows Mobile reboot gonna happened?


Curious because I've just bought a preloved Lumia 640 (non-LTE dual sim) to replace my asmatic Lumia 430. Was hoping it gonna last me a while because its the cheapest W10M phone that supported in the last Creator's Update

 

[Stephen Townsley]

C-Shell to the current generation of Windows 10 Mobile users is pointless. It's really for some future device.

With a future device being (apparently) focussed on enterprise and not even being a phone it will consequently have no effect.

 

[Drael646464]

My question is why they are doing this? and what I mean is what do they want to achieve with it?
At the moment what it means for windows mobile is that they are killing it: The few current users won't be able to get it, none of MS managers use a windows phone anymore so how can they convinced a normal user to pay big money for another experiment when they will do the reboot thing again when their products don't sell.

On the business side is worst why a company will invest of pricey devices if is not supported. e.g companies who adopted the 950 XL or Elite who know not for sure that they devices are obsoleted now.

For me this is some "executive" decision where someone said make me a phone where I don't have to spend too much money in supporting it, the answer was windows on arm and cshell but apparently they ignore the issue of who is going to buy this? They are expecting to work as a Surface did but the main reason of the surface success was because most of the OEM devices on the 1k price range were crap while a MacBook air just worked and also looked nice, Surface filled up that gap. In mobility, at the moment, There's no appetite for being able to run photoshop or autocad on a phone. People use a mobile device for emails, browsing and entertainment and companies just need a safe way to access to their resources.


It's the first time I'm really pissed of and disappointed of the windows mobile reboot thing, I managed to sell my HD2, Omnia 7, Titan HD and 920 but who on the world is going to buy my 950 XL for a fair price (400) when they can get at least an iPhone 5s that provides access to all MS services and also to every mobile app in the world.

MS should commit to support properly the current windows mobile and not replace it with cshell, then at least they will have a chance for people to bet on the next upgrade but that's not going to happen.

There is literally no genuine official confirmation there will be any "reboot". That's fan speculation. Cshell is seen running on a 32 bit machine (ie current chipsets), and there's no reason IMO why it couldn't be made to run on any current supported phone. The higher demands should be able to be met by the phones requiring it (ie those running continuum).

Don't listen to the old wives tales of the usually less than accurate windows blogger rumour mill, and wait and see what happens.

The current focus on bugfixes is really good. Some enterprise features are promised, and the new keyboard. Some app based updates will likely come (timeline and skills via Cortana, files on demand via one drive).

Probably next year support may wane, if MSFT can get some 64 bit phones out. But I think everything will remain backwards compatible - the whole UWP library for win10 is 32 bit.

 

[Drael646464]

Microsoft has to confirm their commitment to their Mobile OS first, since several news discussed that Windows Mobile won't move to Redstone 3, which includes CShell.
The odd thing that Windows OneCore was refined to adapt to any upgrades and improvements done to the OS, with no technical issues that prevent new upgrades.

"News" outlets. Nothing official from MSFT says anything of the sort. We've no indication that cshell has any relationship with r3, or when its planned for released. We have no idea whether fall will bring feature updates or not.

 

[Drael646464]

C-Shell to the current generation of Windows 10 Mobile users is pointless. It's really for some future device.

With a future device being (apparently) focussed on enterprise and not even being a phone it will consequently have no effect.

Why is it written in 32 bit then, when new chipsets are all 64 bit?

 

[eryker]

Composable Shell could fart pink unicorns and spread gold pixie dust and it still won't make a dent unless someone builds GREAT HARDWARE for it. Honestly, Nutella has his head up his ***. NO ONE will buy Windows Phone if there is no GREAT HARDWARE. Tens of millions of users are using crap Android software because there are GREAT PHONES for it. The same goes for the slightly less crap but still ugly iOS.

 

[Pierre Blackwell]

You could build the best phone in the world and it wouldn't matter unless you tell people about it. Marketing has always been an achilles heal for MSFT. The 650XL, HP Elite X3, are great phones, that no one knows about.

 

[froi francisco]

its huge. cshell is huge specially with mobile. we saw a better continuum with cshell. Lumia 950XL in example should benifit with cshell alot. i just hope microsoft sends that update to Lumia 950/XL. i mean these people who invested with Lumia 950/xl has to be given HUGE consideration for providing Microsoft insight on what todo in the mobile section.