What do you think about the CShell?

[Hoangboy]

i think its too complicated for a device that we can hand hold

 

[Gregory Newman]

Like a lot of folks i wish Microsoft had done this earlier if "Continuum had had this when it came out WOW it would have been a super hit neat thing to have. Unfortunately to get it on smart phones it will take NEW more powerful CPU's. the Snapdragon 800 may have the stuff to do it but the new snapdragon 835 can do it. so that means us Windows smart phone USERS/FANS have to buy "NEW HARDWARE" That can hurt Windows smart phone fans and make others shy away from buying Windows smart phones. the big question is how many of Microsoft OEM partners will make windows smart phones. Microsoft itself i think is no hurry to make them but instead will make a mini tablet smart phone hybrid. i will buy one if Microsoft can get Verizon to sell them on their network. Folks if too few of Microsoft's OEM partners are willing to make Windows smart phones then Microsoft will have to make them or be out the Smart phone mobile world

 

[a5cent]

Qualcomm only make 64bit chips now.

So what? That doesn't mean every existing 32 bit Atom, on which W10 is expected to run, will vanish into thin air, right? CShell is not optional. It will replace the current shell on all W10 systems, so it was always obvious CShell would run on both 32 and 64 bit systems. That is my main point.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms973190.aspx
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee418798(v=vs.85).aspx

Absolutely. Those 10 and 12 year old documents explain that programs built explicitly for 32 bit systems, with no regard for platform independence, will have to be looked at closely. Some may run natively on 64 bit systems without doing anything at all. Some will require recompilation and then work just fine on a 64 bit system. Most will require porting. No surprises there. That's fully expected.

More importantly, they have absolutely nothing to do with the situation being discussed here, as Windows is built with platform independence in mind! That has been the case for decades, and as CShell is part of the OS, must also apply to it.

"hey have other options for that. HP's proto x3 refresh, and their own proto they used for making win10m 64 bit.

As previously alluded to, if a developer can at all avoid using prototype hardware and go with a more stable choice, then he/she will. Since CShell is just a user interface, and therefore doesn't directly interact with the hardware in any way, there is absolutely no need to go with a prototype. That would be counter productive. Any hardware that supports Continuum is just as good. If it's more stable it's better.

Well in the state we saw it, it isn't, it doesn't run on the Lumia 950/xl. So it isn't yet platform agnostic.
<snipped>
If that's true, they haven't fixed it yet, because it doesn't run on all current hardware.

How do you know what CShell does and doesn't run on? Just because it's been demonstrated only on the x3 doesn't mean it doesn't run on anything else, right? We're just not privy to more. I'd be very surprised if CShell didn't already run on any old desktop PC.

Don't get me wrong. Although I doubt the x3 will ever receive CShell, I'm not saying it won't. I don't know whether it will or won't. All I'm saying is that your 32 bit vs 64 bit train of thought is meaningless in this context. That's all.

If you still want to agree to disagree, then okay. I tried.

 

[PerfectReign]

Most importantly-

Will CShell run Minecraft?

 

[Drael646464]

How do you know what CShell does and doesn't run on? Just because it's been demonstrated only on the x3 doesn't mean it doesn't run on anything else, right? We're just not privy to more. I'd be very surprised if CShell didn't already run on any old desktop PC.

The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.

 

[jimmyclarke1]

Well CShell is just leaked as a build and it looks pretty stable. How will this take Windows Mobile to the next level?:grin:

Hopefully CShell will open up accessibility to all apps, which are required to woo back customers. In which case I would move directly back to windows.

 

[LightenSkies]

The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.

You could be very well right on that. With that said it may not come to the Lumia 950/XL seeing that at the moment Feature2 is the next update that will come out to Current phones and may be the last for Lumia 950/XL. Though in regards of your statement. Anything can change from this point on. Once again its a internal build that was not meant to be pushed out that got pushed out. One day it could run on the current phones that Microsoft are supporting. We don't know for sure what Microsoft has plan. I see your reasoning behind on your thoughts. Though anything can change from this point on.

 

[Drael646464]

You could be very well right on that. With that said it may not come to the Lumia 950/XL seeing that at the moment Feature2 is the next update that will come out to Current phones and may be the last for Lumia 950/XL. Though in regards of your statement. Anything can change from this point on. Once again its a internal build that was not meant to be pushed out that got pushed out. One day it could run on the current phones that Microsoft are supporting. We don't know for sure what Microsoft has plan. I see your reasoning behind on your thoughts. Though anything can change from this point on.

Feature2 doesn't mean we don't get feature updates. There's some coming late US summer for enterprise users, and the new keyboard is confirmed, and we were also promised app based updates like timeline, files on demand, and cloud clipboard.

Being feature2, doesn't really many anything, except that mobile is a little sidelined.

That said, at some point, when their are new 64 bit phones out, or if that happens, no doubt the Lumia's will be sunseted. Just depends on when that happens.

We aren't on the top of the list, but we get things by way of desktop-ish anyway.

As for cshell, I don't think its coming this year. MSFT has a bi-yearly release schedule, and if the leaked state is any indication it's not near baked. We might see it next year IMO.

I agree that its hard to guess exactly what msft has planned. They might release a new Lumia this year, the could release a surface type phone next year, they might do neither and rely on OEMs. They could support current Lumia's quite fully until some way through next year OR the update at the end of this year will be the last one (although thinking about the low priority thing, I think that's unlikely, as the updates they are doing will probably run over deadline - the last big update would be more likely to be early next year).

There's a lot of guessing, at the end of the day, I am happy if the apps keep getting new features, which by virtual of UWP, they will. Win10m is already a beautiful OS.

 

[xela kufner1]

Well CShell is just leaked as a build and it looks pretty stable. How will this take Windows Mobile to the next level?:grin:

how do i get it

 

[Neill Baldwin]

Hopefully CShell will open up accessibility to all apps, which are required to woo back customers. In which case I would move directly back to windows.

This would be what I would be interested in. Not being able to watch Amazon Prime or my cable on my phone is a huge drawback for me.

 

[a5cent]

That said, at some point, when their are new 64 bit phones out, or if that happens, no doubt the Lumia's will be sunseted. Just depends on when that happens.

And again you're attributing something to "64 bitedness" which is entirely unrelated. Lumias will eventually be sunseted, sure, but the bitedness of the OS will have nothing to do with it. :-(

Almost every consumer OS under the sun exists in a 32 and a 64 bit version. There is absolutely no reason for one to go away because the other becomes available. These days it's not a huge effort to create both in tandem. It's actually easier that way.

There isn't much the bitedness of an OS is directly related to. Suggesting otherwise is just misinformation.

The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.

Agreed. That's the best argument for CShell eventually being released on the x3. I don't think it's anywhere as reliable an indicator of CShell being relesaed on the x3 as you think it is, but it is at least reasonable.

That is in contrast to the very unreasonable position that the bitedness of the hardware on which we accidentally caught our first glimpse of CShell means anything (for all the reasons previously mentioned).

 

[dorelse]

Feature2 = WP 7.8. We'll get a little bit of love, but not much.

Anything new & exciting will need the SD835. They've already said the W10A requires the SD835, and they're fully invested in making that a reality. They're not going to pull devs away from that effort to keep enhancing our forked & dead ended legacy phones.

Sure they'll want to support the Elite X3 & Idol 4s as they're still sold today...but this is minimal bug & security fixes. ala feature 4/ feature 5 until it can be sunset as well.

That's my assessment.

 

[Drael646464]

Almost every consumer OS under the sun exists in a 32 and a 64 bit version. There is absolutely no reason for one to go away because the other becomes available. These days it's not a huge effort to create both in tandem. It's actually easier that way.

The new iOS no longer supports 32 bit apps. So apparently there is at least some reason.

Agreed. That's the best argument for CShell eventually being released on the x3. I don't think it's anywhere as reliable an indicator of CShell being relesaed on the x3 as you think it is, but it is at least reasonable.

Well that was probably a large part of the point I was trying to make, even if I communicated it poorly. Glad we are in agreement about something

Feature2 = WP 7.8. We'll get a little bit of love, but not much.

Anything new & exciting will need the SD835. They've already said the W10A requires the SD835, and they're fully invested in making that a reality. They're not going to pull devs away from that effort to keep enhancing our forked & dead ended legacy phones.

Sure they'll want to support the Elite X3 & Idol 4s as they're still sold today...but this is minimal bug & security fixes. ala feature 4/ feature 5 until it can be sunset as well.

That's my assessment.

We don't really need OS feature updates of any deep magnitude. We get app based feature updates as desktop trickle down. Stuff like timeline, and files on demand. Sprinkle in a few things like the new keyboard we've been promised and the supposed "enterprise features" late US summer, and its probably a better story that 7.8 IMO. Indeed, I can't think of anything from any version of android that has been as interesting to me, even if it is the result of a low priority branch

Windows on arm will be great for tablets, laptops, and brilliant for the UWP platform (far more powerful than windows s), because native apps will run much aster, and provide a visibly superior UX than emulated non-native apps. Which will also be good for current win10m users. So in a way, work on windows on arm, is work for phones, its work for the whole platform.

 

[nate0]

Unfortunately they squandered their Continuum opportunity. The only place I cared about using it was in the car. They were a member of the CCC for years but resisted adding MirrorLink into W10M. We can see that Apple and Google already have Continuum like functionality in the car, and it is a game changer in mobile. Microsoft abandoning everyone who drives a car was the nail in the coffin. It's the only reason I left and went to iPhone. It's really frustrating to see they keep ignoring the car. The car is the most critical environment to have great support for. Until they get this, their mobile ambitions will be unsuccessful.

I see your point only valid if they strictly stuck with a device or devices that are defined as a mobile phone. Plus that is what IoT is for, and is already running in cars.

 

[milkyway]

The leaked build they rolled out, caused a failure to boot on most devices. It only ran on the x3, and something weird like the 850/840.

It wasn't demonstrated. It wasn't an intentional demo. It was a mistakenly uploaded build of win10m. It didn't work on most hardware, and it wasn't hardware agnostic. It caused catastrophic failure on the vast majority of phones.

This leaked win10m build, ran next to flawlessly on the x3. This implies that the win10m build, they have been working on, was built and tested on something like the x3, if not the x3.

It's also rumoured to be rolling out to mobile first, before desktop gets it. Whatever state its presently in, its a work in progress.

They rolled out the IoT build. That's why all the phones (even the x3) ended with a bootloop. What Zac did not state was that what "magic" he did to get it to work on the x3.
This build even works on a Lumia 635:

 

[Drael646464]

They rolled out the IoT build. That's why all the phones (even the x3) ended with a bootloop. What Zac did not state was that what "magic" he did to get it to work on the x3.
This build even works on a Lumia 635:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DB0wYvVXcAEVERT.jpg

It must have been IoT enterprise rather than IoT core, if so, as IoT core doesn't have a UI as such, does it?

 

[a5cent]

The new iOS no longer supports 32 bit apps. So apparently there is at least some reason.

Okay, but their reason is one of choice, not necessity.

In contrast to both Java apps (Android) and .NET apps (W10), both of which are typically CPU architecture neutral, most iOS apps are compiled for a specific CPU architecture. Whenever a 32 bit app is run on 64 iOS, then that mismatch causes some slight overhead whenever a thread of execution passes between OS and app boundaries. This is the exact same situation we've all lived with in the Windows world for over a decade. Most Windows users run a 64 bit OS, but anyone using MS Office typically has the 32 bit version installed. That's the same mismatch. 99.99% of users would never think to care about it.

Anyway, by cutting off support for 32 bit apps, Apple is eliminating that slight overhead. There is no technical reason they must do it. It's just Apple's (admirable) perfectionism. It might? also be a way to nudge people with very old devices towards upgrading. It's definitely not a technical necessity.

Well that was probably a large part of the point I was trying to make, even if I communicated it poorly. Glad we are in agreement about something

Yeah. For me this wasn't about the x3 and the chances of it getting CShell. It was about the misunderstandings related to the bitedness of software. There is already so much misinformation out there, often times propagated by the technically illiterate tech press, that I feel we really don't need even more murkying of those waters. ;-)

 

[Fava11]

Looking forward to updating the 950 lumia win 10 mobile to Cshell

 

[milkyway]

Looking forward to updating the 950 lumia win 10 mobile to Cshell

You will be disappointed

 

[Drael646464]

It's just Apple's (admirable) perfectionism.

IDK, I think its more like a way to turn a buck, because apple has its consumers by the janglies, held in a little gilded cage.

Devs stop making 32 bit apps, everyone HAS to move to the later OSes. Unless, shudder, they leave the apple ecosystem. Where would they go! *chuckles*

So there is a reason to write bited specific software, and to write your OS to be exclusive. To juice the wallets of your consumers

You will be disappointed

I'm already disappointed. Where's my fifty virgins?