06-19-2017 06:27 PM
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  1. TgeekB's Avatar
    Well you're leaving out a couple of important points. Cobalt's patched Google Play services works great, but is not easy to install for a great many Joe/Jane Average types. And the Android runtime is perma-stuck at what, 4.3?

    So the selection of Android titles are indeed diminishing as many drop support for the older version. I had a Z10, Classic, Z30 and Passport SE (still use a Bold 9900 just for fun). I'm a BB fanboy. But you paint a much brighter picture than reality.
    I agree. For the average person its just not doable. Thus BB10's failure.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    06-18-2017 07:31 AM
  2. TgeekB's Avatar
    Picked up my 950 new in the box from an eBay seller in the US for $200USD. It was locked to ATT but they unlocked it for free (and online, didn't have to call).

    It's funny though because to me that was a bargain yet I find myself hesitating over spending $40-50 for a Mozo back cover that I think I want.
    Excellent deal! The Mozo back cover is a nice addition to the 950. I had one and it really dressed it up.
    Enjoy!

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Doug_M likes this.
    06-18-2017 07:33 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    Well you're leaving out a couple of important points. Cobalt's patched Google Play services works great, but is not easy to install for a great many Joe/Jane Average types. And the Android runtime is perma-stuck at what, 4.3?

    So the selection of Android titles are indeed diminishing as many drop support for the older version. I had a Z10, Classic, Z30 and Passport SE (still use a Bold 9900 just for fun). I'm a BB fanboy. But you paint a much brighter picture than reality.
    Well that and the amazon app store is not only smaller than the windows store, but of a significantly lower quality. Even if amazon store + BBW was about the same size as the windows store, which I think it would still be short on, bbw is terrible and amazon app store is fairly low grade. Most android app writers use google play services. All the good stuff on android apps is higher than 4.3 and uses play services.

    And cobalts apps don't "work great", I mean they are a great enabling software, well written, but its an involved process converting the apps AND many of them don't work.

    When I did this, I found about half of the apps didn't convert. And those that did convert, ran slowly, didn't function as well as they do on android (for example could not access SMS messaging) and scaled poorly to the screen ratios of keyboard phones.

    I eventually got my mi band paired for example, but it has less functionality on bb10, than in windows 10m. The fellow that's writing the apps for 10m, is working on putting the body of the notifications on the band next - something android has, but bb10 could never have.

    WhatsApp - can't run it, without paying money for one of nemory's aweful apps. Facebook - you have to use a particular old version, with the patcher, or use one of nemorys aweful apps. To get the half or so apps I did, with the patcher, I mostly had to look for old versions, that still supported 4.3.

    It was planning for gold and mostly getting mud.

    I enjoyed bb10 but the apps situation was pretty terrible. I like you, just came from bb10 to win10m.

    Mind you, I'm kinda glad I did. I love the HUB, and the keyboards, but the gesture system on win10m is pretty comparable, and the UI is beautiful, even more intuitive in a way. I really only miss the keyboard, the software was definitely a mess.

    The OS will always have a place in my heart. The maps app was golden. The hub was a pleasure to use. Swipe gestures simple. They were the first to do flip to mute etc. But tacking on android was never going to work.

    For one, google doesn't really want other people capitalizing on their products, open source or not. Hence why they have worked so hard on minimising that stuff, whether its MIUI, amazon, or whatever.

    Two, android runtime meant that there was little point in writing for bb itself. You can't build an ecosystem if you provide a competitors alternative app system.


    You can't blame BB. They tried everything they could. They even had some okay computer interopability (before some of it broke with the new updates). They didn't have anything to leverage unlike MSFT, for the ecosystem.

    And of course, they could never really afford to add much as time went on, as heavily in debt as they were. Security updates is about as much as they could do. But they adapted well, leased out their name to TCL, write software for android, and for enterprise. Down but not out, the keyone seems to have been received pretty well, and its probably a good phone if android is your kinda thing...

    I still have my q5 lying around. I thought I would use it for emails occasionally, but without wireless charging, it's not going to happen. If bb10 does ever get a feature update, I might boot it up just to fiddle for a little.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-18-2017 at 09:27 AM.
    Doug_M likes this.
    06-18-2017 09:03 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    Picked up my 950 new in the box from an eBay seller in the US for $200USD. It was locked to ATT but they unlocked it for free (and online, didn't have to call).

    It's funny though because to me that was a bargain yet I find myself hesitating over spending $40-50 for a Mozo back cover that I think I want.
    I got a Chinese cover called IMAK. I think its boss. But the mozo's get a lot of love, so I don't think you can go wrong there :)
    06-18-2017 09:24 AM
  5. Scienceguy Labs's Avatar
    I can vouch for IMAK covers. As soon as I buy a new phone, I always look to see if IMAK makes a cover for it.
    Drael646464 and libra89 like this.
    06-18-2017 09:36 AM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Well you're leaving out a couple of important points. Cobalt's patched Google Play services works great, but is not easy to install for a great many Joe/Jane Average types. And the Android runtime is perma-stuck at what, 4.3?

    So the selection of Android titles are indeed diminishing as many drop support for the older version. I had a Z10, Classic, Z30 and Passport SE (still use a Bold 9900 just for fun). I'm a BB fanboy. But you paint a much brighter picture than reality.

    Your points are mostly on the money but you forget we're not average users, we're enthusiasts and most of us have the capability to go beyond the norm. That's why I left the Cobalt option as more of an afterthought in my post. I should've mentioned that you can download pre-API 18 apps and sideload them. They're older, uglier versions but they work nonetheless. Most, if not all, the Microsoft apps require Lollipop or later but I had Cortana, Remote Desktop and the Office trio on my Passport and all worked. It takes a little digging but if you're a diehard webOS, BB or Windows fan, workarounds are almost a requirement so it's not a big deal.

    The reality is there, but you gotta really work for it. It's a one and done situation so once you set your phone up, there's no maintenance involved. There are no updates to worry about. What you get is what you get so you're either happy with the results or you move on. What I do know is that there are quite a few apps a BlackBerry user can have access to that you simply cannot on Windows and there's no way to spin that.
    06-18-2017 10:11 AM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Your points are mostly on the money but you forget we're not average users, we're enthusiasts and most of us have the capability to go beyond the norm. That's why I left the Cobalt option as more of an afterthought in my post. I should've mentioned that you can download pre-API 18 apps and sideload them. They're older, uglier versions but they work nonetheless. Most, if not all, the Microsoft apps require Lollipop or later but I had Cortana, Remote Desktop and the Office trio on my Passport and all worked. It takes a little digging but if you're a diehard webOS, BB or Windows fan, workarounds are almost a requirement so it's not a big deal.

    The reality is there, but you gotta really work for it. It's a one and done situation so once you set your phone up, there's no maintenance involved. There are no updates to worry about. What you get is what you get so you're either happy with the results or you move on. What I do know is that there are quite a few apps a BlackBerry user can have access to that you simply cannot on Windows and there's no way to spin that.
    I have one workaround on my windows phone. Lastpass instead of my banking app.

    Versus on bb10, where everything was a workaround almost. I found messing with cobalt really was a big deal, most of the things I wanted to work didn't, or took a great deal of effort to find a working version. In some cases that's not even an option, such as with WhatsApp. In some cases, like Instagram, there are good choices, native choices - which IMO is preferable (android runtime apps just don't work quite as well as native apps).

    I spent many days trying to get the right apps set up on my bb10 phone.

    I'm very relieved to simply go to the windows store, and get what I want. Like a weight off.

    The time I spent on that, was just downloading this massive list of apps and games I wanted. I think the only thing that took any time, was finding an arsenal of quality bus stop games, most of which I'll probably never play. Mostly actually because I detest freemium and have demanding expectations. It would have been slightly easier on iOS or Android.

    I think the passport is a beautiful device btw. I can see why one would be motivated to set up such a device. I think it might be the best blackberry of all time. It would be great to have such a device set up mostly native, which I think is doable. Nemory is a bit of a pain in the backside, but if you fork over the cash, it covers some of the basics. Its nice to have that proper OS integration.

    Ultimately the apps one needs is a personal thing. If someone gets everything they want, without hassle on bb10, I'm happy for that. I'd rather there was more diversity in the mobile OS market. The two player situation is kind of dull and lacklustre. Lack of competition is bad for treatment of consumers too.

    If people don't get enough on bb10 or windows 10m, I can respect that too. Android and iOS both do have their merits, at the software level. But I'd like, ideally, for people to be as demanding of the respect they get as consumers, as people, from their companies, as they are of their features and apps. To not feel tied to a system, desktop, or mobile, but to use it, out of freewheeling choice.

    I still miss the PKB of my bb device. Even on the lower priced phones, the call quality was always stellar. Speaker quality too.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-18-2017 at 11:07 AM.
    06-18-2017 10:51 AM
  8. Elky64's Avatar
    The Lumia 650 can be had for around $50 locally for me. That is a big difference from my stand point.
    Not so sure I'd recommend a 650 at this point, beautiful phone to hold IMO yet performance is definitely lacking. Actually, now finding my 830 has a slight edge over it performance wise, that's a little unexpected.
    In the end, suppose if you can grab a 650 for $50 then you're not investing a whole lot either so it may be worth a go.
    libra89 and Nate W like this.
    06-18-2017 11:07 AM
  9. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Picked up my 950 new in the box from an eBay seller in the US for $200USD. It was locked to ATT but they unlocked it for free (and online, didn't have to call).

    It's funny though because to me that was a bargain yet I find myself hesitating over spending $40-50 for a Mozo back cover that I think I want.
    Well, it's 25% of the cost going to a back cover.... I'd hesitate as well.

    Personally I find the 950 looks fine the way it is. I see pretty much every single person rocking (for example) an iPhone with pretty ugly cases. My phone without a case is 900% better looking than theirs with one.
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    06-18-2017 02:30 PM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Ultimately the apps one needs is a personal thing. If someone gets everything they want, without hassle on bb10, I'm happy for that.
    You should've just said that from the get go. Your needs are obviously much different than mine because I've never, let me repeat that - never, had any issues getting patched apps to work. I've gotten spoiled with smartwatches and unfortunately neither Pebble, Fitbit or Vector are my cup of tea and they're the ones that work reliably on OS10 without any hacking.

    I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with Android apps on your BlackBerry. Did you know there was an update to the Android Runtime in BBW that was never announced? It's a sea change in functionality that few got to know about unless you follow the platform closely.
    libra89 and Drael646464 like this.
    06-18-2017 04:18 PM
  11. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Well, it's 25% of the cost going to a back cover.... I'd hesitate as well.

    Personally I find the 950 looks fine the way it is. I see pretty much every single person rocking (for example) an iPhone with pretty ugly cases. My phone without a case is 900% better looking than theirs with one.

    I'd have to agree, $50 for a chrome band is pretty stiff when compared to the OEM covers. Unless Doug is looking at the Walnut back, that look may be worth it to some.
    06-18-2017 04:21 PM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    I'd have to agree, $50 for a chrome band is pretty stiff when compared to the OEM covers. Unless Doug is looking at the Walnut back, that look may be worth it to some.
    That is steep. I got mine on eBay for a discount, can't remember exactly. Maybe $30 or so.
    06-18-2017 05:19 PM
  13. Nate W's Avatar
    Oh, didn't see it that cheap. Maybe that's carrier locked by one of your local carriers?
    Usually private sale online (craigslist/swappa) single sim Cricket. But it can be unlocked for less. The dual sim can sell a little higher used. 80-100 dollars maybe
    06-18-2017 05:36 PM
  14. Byrese's Avatar
    I still keep coming back from iOS and Android. There's JUST enough of my apps left to keep me here still and using my 950xl. I just enjoy it whilst it lasts knowing some of my essential apps could be pulled at any time and if I need to jump again then so be it
    You're like me. I left, have an android, but came back briefly last year for a period. I'm always keep my eye out for a lumia to buy. Why? I really ENJOY using WP! But the it doesn't work a the time for my daily needs so I stay Android for now.

    The Skype integration with PC is really useful and attractive to me. How has that been working?
    06-18-2017 09:26 PM
  15. Nate W's Avatar
    @Byrese
    Skype PC works fluidly. They did a good job with it making into UWP app. W10M works well too, I just find it less responsive and to busy to use over the Messaging app. I never do calls on it though so I cannot answer it from that perspective. The options/settings section is decked out with almost every setting one can think of. Seems like they add a new setting option every time they update it. It has live tile now and notification badge.
    06-19-2017 12:10 AM
  16. Doug_M's Avatar
    I can vouch for IMAK covers. As soon as I buy a new phone, I always look to see if IMAK makes a cover for it.
    I had an IMAK for my BB Passport. Great case for that thin minimalist look.
    06-19-2017 05:56 AM
  17. Doug_M's Avatar
    You should've just said that from the get go. Your needs are obviously much different than mine because I've never, let me repeat that - never, had any issues getting patched apps to work. I've gotten spoiled with smartwatches and unfortunately neither Pebble, Fitbit or Vector are my cup of tea and they're the ones that work reliably on OS10 without any hacking.

    I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with Android apps on your BlackBerry. Did you know there was an update to the Android Runtime in BBW that was never announced? It's a sea change in functionality that few got to know about unless you follow the platform closely.
    My experience was about 75% of the apps I tried to patch worked. When was the runtime update in BBW and what did it bump it up to?
    fatclue_98 likes this.
    06-19-2017 05:58 AM
  18. Doug_M's Avatar
    I'd have to agree, $50 for a chrome band is pretty stiff when compared to the OEM covers. Unless Doug is looking at the Walnut back, that look may be worth it to some.
    lol...I ended up buying it for $40 despite the steep price. And yes, to me $40 for a case is highway robbery. But it wasn't for the chrome band, I actually wanted the black rubber paint version but that was $60 (the walnut was $70). No, I wanted it because it isn't a case. Like many, I find the plastic backing of the 950 to be cheap looking and cheap feeling. Just wanted an "upgrade". I'll find out if I wasted my money or not soon enough I suppose.
    libra89 and TgeekB like this.
    06-19-2017 06:01 AM
  19. fatclue_98's Avatar
    My experience was about 75% of the apps I tried to patch worked. When was the runtime update in BBW and what did it bump it up to?
    Here's the article. Very obscure coverage for such an important component of the Android experience on BlackBerry.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/crackbe...vailable%3famp
    06-19-2017 10:40 AM
  20. Doug_M's Avatar
    Here's the article. Very obscure coverage for such an important component of the Android experience on BlackBerry.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/crackbe...vailable%3famp
    Ah right, thanks. I remember that now. It wasn't actually a big runtime update. It was essentially a fix for when BB broke the runtime for many users. I don't think it even bumped up the runtime version.

    The problem BB faced was a change in the licensing of Android by Google. Essentially the licensing meant that BB would forever be stuck on Jelly Bean, never to progress beyond that.
    06-19-2017 11:31 AM
  21. DrChucky's Avatar
    Picked up my 950 new in the box from an eBay seller in the US for $200USD. It was locked to ATT but they unlocked it for free (and online, didn't have to call).

    It's funny though because to me that was a bargain yet I find myself hesitating over spending $40-50 for a Mozo back cover that I think I want.
    Spend the money on the Mozo cover, you will be happy that you did!
    libra89 and Kevin Rush like this.
    06-19-2017 02:18 PM
  22. KomakhidzeJaba's Avatar
    Having Windows Phone is very exciting, because you never know what kind of information you will hear about this OS , it will reborn or die , new apps will come or not , older apps will get update or cancel existing, on Android and iOS it's boring, because you know only one information , every apps and games you will have and OS is not gonna die any time soon, that's why the small good information about wp is more exciting than big good information about Android and iOS , just because there no big information about them that you didn't know
    tgp and Drael646464 like this.
    06-19-2017 02:41 PM
  23. tgp's Avatar
    Having Windows Phone is very exciting, because you never know what kind of information you will hear about this OS , it will reborn or die , new apps will come or not , older apps will get update or cancel existing
    Plus, on Windows phone you don't know what will happen while you're actually using it.

    "So when I tap this shortcut, will the app open, will it crash, or will my phone reboot?"
    TgeekB, libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    06-19-2017 02:47 PM
  24. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Plus, on Windows phone you don't know what will happen while you're actually using it.

    "So when I tap this shortcut, will the app open, will it crash, or will my phone reboot?"
    lol, so true...

    Except it's just more nonsense. The apps I tap open. They don't crash. And my phone never reboots.

    But fine, keep spreading that nonsense. It's what keeps this stellar section alive. The whining. The endless whining. About a dead platform.
    Drael646464 and fatclue_98 like this.
    06-19-2017 03:15 PM
  25. libra89's Avatar
    Spend the money on the Mozo cover, you will be happy that you did!
    +1

    They just make the phone feel so different. Can't get over how much the Mozo changed how I see my Lumia.
    06-19-2017 03:23 PM
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