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07-22-2017 08:54 AM
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  1. rakeshkmr's Avatar
    Perhaps, it seems end of as of now. I am big believer of Microsoft tech/tools and was proud owner of many Lumia devices, 2 month back i had problem wth my Lumia 950 and service centered could not fixed it. B2x offered me with a replacement however after couple of weeks they could not arrange a Lumia device for me and finally refunded me. after 3 month of waiting now i am needed with a crap android device which never used. now searching for windows mobile all over world and nothing to found. seems my loyalty is taken for ride and i am only loser in this game, my all leaning for devlopien windows app also gone for toss.
    06-26-2017 02:48 AM
  2. Richard Ryan Dort's Avatar
    My take is I still think that we are heading towards a future where our phones are our computers, and everything else is a dock. MS introduced Continuum and now can run full Windows on an ARM chipset. Samsung has Dex. And Apple continues to push iOS harder to Mac Book replacement status via the iPads, which I feel that once they perfect that, iOS's new 'full computer' abilities will simply be moved over it the iPhone. Microsoft can't afford to be left out. They have the lead, or so it seems. And they cannot leave this mobile space. Even us few guinie pigs are helping them keep their mobile chops close to the competition. It almost lets them refine things as the want as almost nobody is paying attention or being annoyed. Me, I'm almost certain that one of the new things from MS will be a 6" tablet thing running full Windows 10, with Continuum dock functionality, with telephony abilities.

    Who needs Windows 10 Mobile when you have full Windows 10 that looks just like W10M on a 6" screen? Much less knows to work like a desktop when plugged into a dock?

    If, for some reason, there is never a Windows thing I can use as a phone ever again then I will simply get an Android phone and MS the heck out of it. That is the only answer to your question. People will go to iPhones or Android phones. What's the alternative? Flip phones and suicide?
    G4Grandad likes this.
    06-26-2017 03:46 AM
  3. Drael646464's Avatar
    Adding to my original post:

    Let's imagine that Microsoft do indeed leave the mobile market as pertains to their own efforts at a mobile device and only concentrates on providing apps to ios and android

    What would Microsoft lose or gain by not having a native presence in the mobile market?

    1. Would Microsoft share prices drop or would they not be affected?
    2. Would investors move away?
    3. Would support for performing departments increase since there are more resources freed up for that?
    4. Or would Microsoft eventually slow down and start losing customers who have wanted a complete solution for their needs?

    I'd say they'd also lose direction. MS's one OS vision is about windows on multiple devices united by UWP apps. For that to be in any way real, they need IoT, smarthome, wearable, and mobile devices. Otherwise its a cross-platform OS, that has a limited set of form factors.

    Given this is the pitch they are giving to audiences, tech enthusiasts, developers, and their vision as a company, I'd say if they abandoned mobile permenantly, or any of those other areas it would make the market lose faith in them, and the company itself to lose direction and morale.

    It might not be the end for MSFT, but it would be a demoralizing failure of very large proportion, one big enough they'd probably sack the CEO.

    It would be bad. Mobile might seem like this nothing thing to consumers, but for the company their entire direction is cross-platform, cross-form, universal. If they fail in that, they'd not have simply lost to their competition, but lost to themselves.
    Chintan Gohel likes this.
    06-26-2017 03:59 AM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    And Apple continues to push iOS harder to Mac Book replacement status via the iPads, which I feel that once they perfect that, iOS's new 'full computer' abilities will simply be moved over it the iPhone.
    They only introduced the ipad pro in the first place because marketshare was shrinking, whilst windows tablets were growing. Not that an ipad pro has "full computer abilities" but it's 10 to 1, less popular than all their other ipads. I'm not sure apple will measure that as any kind of resounding success. More like a niche product. The MacBook is a great deal bigger marketshare wise.

    Then again, the notebook is also still bigger than the windows hybrid despite its rapid growth. And dex and continuum- pretty much niche enthusiast products.

    If phones in docks is the future, in our currently multi-device world, its a future that's not very close IMO. Personally I think reducing device redundancy won't be as simple as "one device", more like multiple cross-over devices, sitting at the intersection of various form factors. And there is no way phones are going to make serious gaming or VR platforms any time soon, or act as servers to dish up machine learning. Size versus power is a compromise, even when it comes to screen sizes.
    And if you are carrying the screen around- why not have a more powerful device, with larger storage and more ports, keyboard attached?

    No, for me, a phone with docks, is a niche. One which will emerge and be significant, but will not replace everything else. The more powerful machines they can make, or the smaller, the more uses they will find for them. It becomes like that overused word "ecosystem". Different devices for different uses.
    06-26-2017 04:09 AM
  5. Kot Prada's Avatar
    I would love to hear someone who actually believes Microsoft is done with mobile devices explain why CShell, Continuum, and Windows 10 on ARM are being developed. I can't understand how anyone can believe Microsoft is done when so much work is going into making Windows scale down to mobile devices. It's clear that the Lumia brand was killed off to consolidate Microsoft around Surface brand marketing. I believe the company is probably hard at work on a hybrid device that bridges the gaps in a similar way to the Surface tablet. The CEO has even publically said Microsoft is working on the "ultimate mobile device." The hardware and software have to come together for something revolutionary to come to market.
    Sometimes Microsoft reminds me a regular girl - doing something doesn't mean for them, that it has to have a sense.
    06-26-2017 04:43 AM
  6. Kot Prada's Avatar
    I'm in a rather unique position. I love all platforms. I currently have a Lumia 950 that I use sorta as a PC. It's connected to a continuum dock with a monitor and keyboard and mouse. I also have a wireless keyboard/trackpad combo and 55 inch TV at home I can use with it. I can always use that regardless of MS's support, at least until it breaks down, etc. Otherwise I have Apples and Androids to play with, and I generally get a new phone every 2 to 3 months. Right now a One Plus 5 is days away and I JUST got done playing with a BlackBerry KEYone. (passed on to Dad)
    BlackBerry got don't with themselves when switched to Android.
    06-26-2017 04:44 AM
  7. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Perhaps this little story is pretty telling. My friend is a Windows Mobile diehard. He owned 2 Lumia 822s before upgrading to the 928. WELL his 928 got fried recently and all Verizon had to offer him for Windows phone was a 3 year old Lumia 735! He balked at that and went Android.
    This story is pretty telling about Verizon, or about Your friend... but definitely not about MS.
    06-26-2017 04:46 AM
  8. Kot Prada's Avatar
    I think no matter what you believe, reality is its going to be a while until they turn things around on the mobile front. Patience is a virtue.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Believing is very important, actually ;)
    06-26-2017 04:52 AM
  9. Kot Prada's Avatar
    You are going to call that crazy but given how they executed the Nokia acquisition, it makes perfect sense. Why would they pay BILLIONS for a device manufacturer and then shut it down. It makes no sense. But they did it! So, updating an OS that has no target device, while crazy to most of us, isn't out of the realm of what MSFT can do.
    Same. I have a big hopes... simply because I will not accept existing only of iOS and Android on mobile market. But I feel like MS don't know what they are doing.
    Last edited by Kot Prada; 06-29-2017 at 05:55 AM.
    CraigCole likes this.
    06-26-2017 05:03 AM
  10. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Even if completely unrealistic, because it's so cheap to make a W10 smartphone (it's only a matter of deploying an already made software) at least from an OEM (even more from a Chinese one), the answer to the question is quite simple, I'll buy an Android device.
    Luckily this is not gonna happen, new WoA devices will be ready for Xmas 2017, I'll wait for prices to calm down and bugs to be fixed and probably buy in May 2018, with my 950 lasting 2 years and still an up to date device, I'll give it to one of my family members.
    Absolutely same. Not sure about XMas... but I'm pretty sure, that I will be able to get new device for an already relevant price somewhere in mid 2018. My 950 XL and me are more than ready for such terms.
    Last edited by Kot Prada; 06-29-2017 at 05:55 AM.
    06-26-2017 05:09 AM
  11. Kot Prada's Avatar
    I just bought my first Windows 10 phone. It's the HP Elite X3. The phone and OS are top notch. This is my first Windows phone in many years. The state of Microsoft's mobile offerings doesn't look so good right now and I'm not quite sure why. In my opinion, the HP Elite X3 which is a year old now - actually rivals any of the other makers devices recently released or projected to be released this year.
    I already said the same about my 950 XL.
    fin11 likes this.
    06-26-2017 05:11 AM
  12. DarthJay38's Avatar
    I've been with Windows Phones since 2011 (after switching from iPhone) and I've loved just about everything about it. The OS is superior to anything out there, the camera's are top notch, and despite the glaring app gap it never seemed to bother the loyal Windows Phone users - we managed to get a decent 3rd party app for most of what we needed. My most recent Windows Phone upgrade was to the Microsoft 950 back in December of 2015.

    Now, fan-boy sentiment aside, if I had known how little support the platform was going to get over the course of the next year and a half - I never would have done it. I think we can all agree that not just the lack of apps, but the constant pulling of the few good ones out there, has been disheartening. Not to mention the utter lack of mentions and attention the platform gets by Microsoft at all, kind of like the family that tries to ignore the crazy drunk uncle sitting at the back of the table muttering to himself at Thanksgiving. Yeah, we all know he's there - but best to not acknowledge him and maybe he'll just go away. That is very much how Microsoft has been treating Windows Phone this past year.

    My 950 still has about 6 months left on the AT&T Next Plan, but it became so unusable that I switched back over to an old iPhone 5s I had lying around...and I HAAAATE it. And that right there is a true shame and a familiar story to a lot of WP users. I think anyone who would give the platform a chance would see that it is far superior in just about every way - but what little chance Microsoft had to become a viable contender has been squandered away. Blame it on whatever reason you want (Nadella, Lack of Developer Support, etc), but - to this author's point - I think it's going to be next to impossible for Microsoft to overcome where they currently are in the mobile space no matter how good their next phone is. Frankly, short of releasing a phone that promises eternal life and endless supplies of cash to the user, I don't see them ever being successful in the market. It's really, really too bad.
    Last edited by DarthJay38; 06-26-2017 at 09:09 AM. Reason: spelling mistake
    NYCMetsPDX, TgeekB and Kestas AK like this.
    06-26-2017 08:54 AM
  13. paragoneer's Avatar
    Then we all march and gather outside Microsoft offices across the globe and demand for Nutella to come out and address us.
    We don't let him back in until he commits to a new phone.
    Haha this reminds me of what some dedicated Half Life fans did back in 2011 to try and raise awareness of Half Life 3 :)
    06-27-2017 03:19 AM
  14. Chintan Gohel's Avatar
    But surely we can get more than just 2 supporters, right? And spread across so many countries, it could work if we were to organize it well and make it a concerted effort
    06-27-2017 10:54 AM
  15. pkcable's Avatar
    This story is pretty telling about Verizon, or about Your friend... but definitely not about MS.
    Well really all three! Verizon sells what is selling, IF Windows phones were selling don't you think Verizon would have more of them? IS Microsoft releasing and promoting Windows phones at a pace you are comfortable with? And my friend? Can you really blame him for going Android?
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    06-27-2017 12:22 PM
  16. LCeSaRadv's Avatar
    Bom, realmente o cshell deu uma esperança para os usuários, mas a questão dos aplicativos ainda não está sendo abordada de maneira satisfatória pela Microsoft. Isso é realmente preocupante, mas estou tentando manter as esperanças, pois gosto muito da plataforma
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-27-2017 01:46 PM
  17. pkcable's Avatar
    Bom, realmente o cshell deu uma esperança para os usuários, mas a questão dos aplicativos ainda não está sendo abordada de maneira satisfatória pela Microsoft. Isso é realmente preocupante, mas estou tentando manter as esperanças, pois gosto muito da plataforma
    Amen brother! It's all about the apps, that is what spelled doom for BB10 too!
    Laura Knotek and TgeekB like this.
    06-27-2017 01:59 PM
  18. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Amen brother! It's all about the apps, that is what spelled doom for BB10 too!
    Apps? Not marketing (it's absence actually)?
    06-27-2017 05:28 PM
  19. TgeekB's Avatar
    Amen brother! It's all about the apps, that is what spelled doom for BB10 too!
    Some people just refuse to accept the obvious, even when history repeats itself.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-27-2017 05:35 PM
  20. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Apps? Not marketing (it's absence actually)?
    Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.
    Guytronic, TgeekB and tgp like this.
    06-27-2017 05:45 PM
  21. TgeekB's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.
    Exactly. This is not an argument about whether apps are necessary or not for an OS to work, its about the necessity of apps for an operating system to flourish under the current market.

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-27-2017 06:52 PM
  22. Kot Prada's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.
    Marketing (Product Positioning/Targeting; Researching on level of demand on future product; Market Research etc.) > Apps Development (Cooperating with developers; Setting gaming rules; App Store development) > Consumers (Release; Selling; Support etc.)
    06-27-2017 07:13 PM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.
    Source?

    Most people use 6 apps on the regular (according to a study referenced on the front page here), so "many" even if this is true, seems unlikely. There aren't even "many" bb10 or windows phone users, but if any large proportion of them returned their phones due to apps, I'd like to here some proof of that.

    From what I can tell the app situation is not as dire as people often make out. In early 7/8 days there was quite a lot of interest generated in Silverlight apps, xap. Then as that faded, and those people fell off, devs have started to get interested in UWP.

    It's never been as bad as bb10, and it's better overall than amazon app store, both of which I have tried to use. Sure, there is some noteable absences, the most mainstream of which is banking apps, but for the average user, its really not this dire situation that has been painted IMO.

    It's actually pretty nice coming from bb10, to windows 10 mobile. And its not bad having been over on android either (Still constantly use this for my job)- there's a lot of app redundancy, less prominent indie devs doing good work, and a truckload of ads and in-app purchases over there.

    It's really only niche users that feel this app-gap, for the most part IMO. You can uber, and airbnb on a windows phone. All the major social networks, photo editing, all the typical phone functions. You can bank via phone/text/web, or use lastpass like me for quite entry to the page.

    The average person doesn't use the sort of things that aren't there IMO. I've got easily 7 times the number of app/games on my windows 10 phone than I did my bb10, and actually more than I've ever bothered to install on an android device (partly because I love the cross compatibility with my tablet and PC).

    Likely not as many as _some_ android or ios users, but a lot more than most ios or android users.

    Sometimes I feel what happens with this, is people with niche needs, like smart home enthusiast, or professional photographers, or constant business travellers, start to feel like their experience is typical of everyone elses. There are certainly people for whom win10 is a bad fit, and there are things missing, but for the average person, I don't think that's true.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-27-2017 at 10:34 PM.
    fin11 and Kot Prada like this.
    06-27-2017 10:23 PM
  24. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    06-28-2017 12:03 AM
  25. Drael646464's Avatar
    I agree that apps help market devices, and MSFT needs to, via other platforms like windows on arm, grow the still nascent UWA platform - but what I asked for was a source confirming your claim that "many people returned their phones due to lack of apps". I highly doubt there is any truth to that myself.

    However a lesser number of apps to market devices with, due to the still nascent UWA platform, certainly has inhibited device adoption, and made it harder for windows on pocket devices to ever break through into the mainstream.

    Does it prevent the average user from doing what they want to do? Not as far as I can tell. But it may make the device seem less attractive to them, because they can't do things, they don't actually want or need to do.

    It's a bit like my desire to have fruity loops mobile on my phone so that I CAN write music. I'll probably one day spend money on buying the app. Buy it's doubtful I will EVER use it, rather than write music on my tablet or PC. But I like they idea of being able to. Its the same with things like stylus art, assistants, and a range of other consumer targeted features - some people use them, other people just 'like the idea of them'. Or apps in general, I have about eighty, other people might have hundreds - how many do I use even once, let alone regularly?

    I have junk that I have brought from aliexpress. Some is awesome, and I use all the time. Others I have never used once. Consumerism isn't always about functionality. Often its about the idea of it.

    Think about all those people with ab crunchers under their beds :P
    Last edited by Drael646464; 06-28-2017 at 02:06 AM.
    Kot Prada and Laura Knotek like this.
    06-28-2017 01:16 AM
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