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07-26-2017 04:43 PM
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  1. jjinal's Avatar
    People!! Quit torturing yourselves. Give it up and get a high end android. Your loyalty to WP or WM10 is not appreciated or reciprocated. Free yourself from this trainwreck.
    11B1P and agaskew like this.
    07-19-2017 04:49 PM
  2. Microsloth's Avatar
    I just embrace change ;)
    07-19-2017 05:01 PM
  3. TgeekB's Avatar
    So, in other words, still nothing for consumers to replace their dying W10M phones with?

    How does this so-called device help anything?

    This all sounds like the "just wait, next device/patch will be AWESOME!!!!" that us W10M users have been hearing for years.
    Exactly this. Maybe someday far in the future many people will be walking around with a device like this but not soon. It doesn't help anyone's current needs.
    libra89, dgr_874 and aximtreo like this.
    07-19-2017 05:30 PM
  4. Joe920's Avatar
    My poison is the iPhone 6S+, and it's slowly killing me..
    libra89 and fatclue_98 like this.
    07-19-2017 11:56 PM
  5. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    People!! Quit torturing yourselves. Give it up and get a high end android. Your loyalty to WP or WM10 is not appreciated or reciprocated. Free yourself from this trainwreck.
    But if we give up on W10M, how can we post in this forum and proclaim it's dead and that people need to move on?....












    ........oh, wait.... I get it now....
    aximtreo likes this.
    07-20-2017 12:37 PM
  6. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    Yep, it's the usual routine for Microsoft fans. Assume the position folks, and remember to Think of England...
    Did you ever get back to us with a source of Microsoft saying what you say it did?
    07-20-2017 12:38 PM
  7. AndyCalling's Avatar
    07-21-2017 06:01 AM
  8. etphoto's Avatar
    I am not sure what "new" features mobile really needs right now. I'd be happy with MS doing bug fixes for awhile so this platform gets very solid.

    Besides, IF Windows on Arm on a new mobile device is really in the works I'd rather MS put all their efforts into getting that solid before it's release.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    fin11 and mattiasnyc like this.
    07-21-2017 11:01 AM
  9. TgeekB's Avatar
    I am not sure what "new" features mobile really needs right now. I'd be happy with MS doing bug fixes for awhile so this platform gets very solid.

    Besides, IF Windows on Arm on a new mobile device is really in the works I'd rather MS put all their efforts into getting that solid before it's release.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    But it's not a mobile phone, it's a mobile device with telephony, or a large telephone that's a computer, or maybe a pocket-sized telephone booth, or perhaps a phone that can be a computer and a magic carpet....

    Whatever it is it will be a niche product. If reasonably priced it might be fun to play around with. If expensive I'll let others throw their money at it and see if it develops over the next 10 years or so. I don't see it pulling customers away from their current ecosystems.
    07-21-2017 04:50 PM
  10. PerfectReign's Avatar
    Yes. If you read what both Dona Sarkar and Sataylq Nadella have stated, our five- or six-inch slabs are not where they are focusing.

    http://www.afr.com/technology/techno...0161118-gssfb1

    As I've stated, they want the cloud and the Microsoft services on a subscription model. That's where the money is for them.
    07-21-2017 06:33 PM
  11. sinime's Avatar
    I'm fine playing the wait and see game. My 950 is 18 months old and still working, so no need to switch to a new platform... I'm fine with it not being upgraded to whatever is next. Now, when whatever is next comes out, that will be another story. I probably won't jump right on it, unless it really blows my mind. So, I'm fine waiting to see what they came up with. Then I'll decide if I want to upgrade to the MS mobile device or jump ship.
    fin11, Guytronic and Drael646464 like this.
    07-21-2017 10:42 PM
  12. Drael646464's Avatar
    So, in other words, still nothing for consumers to replace their dying W10M phones with?

    How does this so-called device help anything?

    This all sounds like the "just wait, next device/patch will be AWESOME!!!!" that us W10M users have been hearing for years.
    136788d1500488544-smartselectimage_2017-07-19-19-15-01.png

    This showed up recently the azure developer twitter feed.

    I think its the new "phone". Which TBH, it barely is, its more of a phone-tablet.

    It follows the exact design of the patent, and the exact form of the windows code on Andromeda that's been found (dual screens, detachable magnetic hinge). In fact, if this isn't the new device, I'd be quite surprised.

    Looks like its gone past proto too - its been spotted on campus, and here it is - implying its maybe a year off, but not that far. There is clearly more than one of these devices currently in existence.

    Its a lot bigger than I thought it would be. With two detachable screens, it makes a phablet look like a babies toy.

    Its a WILD amount of screen space (considering the other screen is folded under) on what looks like a barely pocketable device.
    07-22-2017 04:41 AM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This showed up recently the azure developer twitter feed.

    I think its the new "phone". Which TBH, it barely is, its more of a phone-tablet.

    It follows the exact design of the patent, and the exact form of the windows code on Andromeda that's been found (dual screens, detachable magnetic hinge). In fact, if this isn't the new device, I'd be quite surprised.

    Looks like its gone past proto too - its been spotted on campus, and here it is - implying its maybe a year off, but not that far. There is clearly more than one of these devices currently in existence.

    Its a lot bigger than I thought it would be. With two detachable screens, it makes a phablet look like a babies toy.

    Its a WILD amount of screen space (considering the other screen is folded under) on what looks like a barely pocketable device.
    Are consumers going to buy something like that? I think that's the point people are trying to make. It's more like a tablet than a phone.
    dgr_874 likes this.
    07-22-2017 07:24 AM
  14. Drael646464's Avatar
    Are consumers going to buy something like that? I think that's the point people are trying to make. It's more like a tablet than a phone.
    For the future of win10m, it only matters if some people buy the new device.

    Whether they are consumers or not, a nice hybrid tablet like catergory creation 5% marketshare would be enough for keep the small screen OS alive.

    But I think consumers might. I mean, they kinda love big phones. A good portion of people buy phablets. This is just the same pocketability, but more screen.

    If they or another OEM make a smaller size, then they'd have a highly portable large screen real estate too. Once the template is created, and the SKU, OEMs can play with the idea.

    And if that device drives development, and features to the platform, it'll feed off into regular slabs too.

    Although I guess we'll have to see how the device works in practice. But its pretty clear win10m isn't 'dead", nor has MSFT given up.

    Whether a person wants to replace their 950 with that particular phone or not? Up to them, but its existence is positive for the app platform, windows on arm is the same - and the OS itself, well this runs a relative of win10m, so features should be pretty cross-compatible (ie if they make them for one, it should be easy as heck to port).

    And if they don't like it, they can get the incoming x3 refresh, or whatever alcatel makes next. Who knows MSFT might make one last regular slab too to keep put a little coal on the fire. It wouldn't surprise me, there have also been rumours of that (a new Lumia).

    As we can see, insider rumours are not just to be ignored! They can be very substaintial. Even if people have been waiting for years for a "surface phone" - they actually have been working on it, they clearly just tried a few different ideas and settled on this as the best.
    Last edited by Drael646464; 07-22-2017 at 08:33 AM.
    07-22-2017 08:22 AM
  15. TgeekB's Avatar
    For the future of win10m, it only matters if some people buy the new device.

    Whether they are consumers or not, a nice hybrid tablet like catergory creation 5% marketshare would be enough for keep the small screen OS alive.

    But I think consumers might. I mean, they kinda love big phones. A good portion of people buy phablets. This is just the same pocketability, but more screen.

    If they or another OEM make a smaller size, then they'd have a highly portable large screen real estate too. Once the template is created, and the SKU, OEMs can play with the idea.
    On your first point, you may be right. Is it eventually replacing the surface lineup? It certainly doesn't look like an easily pocketable device but might be nice for corporate travelers.
    As far as consumers I'm not sure. It still lacks what people demand and use in terms of apps. The "average" consumer will not give up an Android or iPhone for this. Still in all, a small niche is possible. The question is will enough people buy it to make it financially feasible?
    07-22-2017 08:26 AM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    On your first point, you may be right. Is it eventually replacing the surface lineup? It certainly doesn't look like an easily pocketable device but might be nice for corporate travelers.
    As far as consumers I'm not sure. It still lacks what people demand and use in terms of apps. The "average" consumer will not give up an Android or iPhone for this. Still in all, a small niche is possible. The question is will enough people buy it to make it financially feasible?
    I don't really feel that the average consumer buys a phone based on apps. They rarely even know the storage or cpu of the phone. And as far as apps go, win10m has everything for the basic user other than, in some case, banking (it has my bank, and I am in NZ, so even there its not that bad).

    I honestly think that this "apps" thing that phone enthusiasts focus on, isn't the reality. For niche applications it matters. For most people not really. But regardless, I myself have confidence that windows on arm will boost UWP adoption. As will this device. One is released this year, the other likely next year. Combined the effect of that, and the centennial bridge/windows s will all herd developers to new userbases.

    It's a bit of a 1-2-3 punch. They likely have planned the timing all of this, as to give UWP steam. Like they intend each thing to add to the other, in terms of UWP adoption. That explains why they have been quiet - getting all their pieces together to elegantly release with planned timing.

    As for if enough people buy it? Well IDK. The tech news will cover it, even mainstream, because its new. So there will be some buzz. Hopefully (please god) some marketing, lol. From there we will have to see.

    It's not to replace the surface line, its like a mi max sized phablet with two screens and a hinge - so far as what I am seeing - 6.4 inches maybe?

    Just small enough to hold and pocket, but a bit unwieldy. Its for those people who's pockets and hand sizes are just annoying limitations getting in the way of more screen XD

    And yeah, with the other screen as a keyboard I could see it being pretty ideal for business travellers. Like a mini-laptop.

    Actually if the hinge/crease is low visibility, and you can full screen across both screens, I'd buy it. Beats travelling with a 9.7 inch tablet, you can flip it out anywhere. People on the bus and train might even be jelly. Fold it out and look at "maps". Show people pictures. IDK, guess we'll have to see more about how it works in practice. At minimum it would be excellent for reading, even with a crease - you'd actually have essentially a book.
    07-22-2017 08:41 AM
  17. TgeekB's Avatar
    I don't really feel that the average consumer buys a phone based on apps. They rarely even know the storage or cpu of the phone. And as far as apps go, win10m has everything for the basic user other than, in some case, banking (it has my bank, and I am in NZ, so even there its not that bad).

    I honestly think that this "apps" thing that phone enthusiasts focus on, isn't the reality. For niche applications it matters. For most people not really. But regardless, I myself have confidence that windows on arm will boost UWP adoption. As will this device. One is released this year, the other likely next year. Combined the effect of that, and the centennial bridge/windows s will all herd developers to new userbases.

    It's a bit of a 1-2-3 punch. They likely have planned the timing all of this, as to give UWP steam. Like they intend each thing to add to the other, in terms of UWP adoption. That explains why they have been quiet - getting all their pieces together to elegantly release with planned timing.

    As for if enough people buy it? Well IDK. The tech news will cover it, even mainstream, because its new. So there will be some buzz. Hopefully (please god) some marketing, lol. From there we will have to see.

    It's not to replace the surface line, its like a mi max sized phablet with two screens and a hinge - so far as what I am seeing - 6.4 inches maybe?

    Just small enough to hold and pocket, but a bit unwieldy. Its for those people who's pockets and hand sizes are just annoying limitations getting in the way of more screen XD

    And yeah, with the other screen as a keyboard I could see it being pretty ideal for business travellers. Like a mini-laptop.

    Actually if the hinge/crease is low visibility, and you can full screen across both screens, I'd buy it. Beats travelling with a 9.7 inch tablet, you can flip it out anywhere. People on the bus and train might even be jelly. Fold it out and look at "maps". Show people pictures. IDK, guess we'll have to see more about how it works in practice. At minimum it would be excellent for reading, even with a crease - you'd actually have essentially a book.
    As far as your point about apps, I think you're deeply mistaken.
    07-22-2017 08:59 AM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    As far as your point about apps, I think you're deeply mistaken.
    My experience of using win10m, is that I am missing nothing. I actually use a lot of apps and games. Studies have show that people only use 4-6 apps on the regular. I think my mum uses about 3. I don't really see regular users as people who hoard apps, and given my own experience, and where the weak spots lie - things like wearables, travel apps etc. I just cant really imagine joe the builder being like "damn it doesn't have snapchat, or I'd buy this if only it could operate my Samsung watch".

    I can't really picture it. Especially when if you buy a phone, they only display minimal details like camera megapixles and OS version. I actually sell tablets, and most people don't have a clue what the numbers mean, or much about what they are buying.

    Consumers seem to use basic functions, and know little about OSes, or functions, in my experience. You might get a different impression I think, if your peer group is quite technically oriented.

    Buuut, well they are both valid perspectives. There's no evidence to know for sure either way. You can't prove that apps is what stops people buying windows phones, and I can't prove it isn't. But to me it seems like everything normal, the every day task is pretty well covered. The only real exception being some banks lack apps on win10m. But its not that hard to use a website for that. It's not exactly a deal breaker unless you rely heavily on banking apps for some reason.
    07-22-2017 09:06 AM
  19. TgeekB's Avatar
    My experience of using win10m, is that I am missing nothing. I actually use a lot of apps and games. Studies have show that people only use 4-6 apps on the regular. I think my mum uses about 3. I don't really see regular users as people who hoard apps, and given my own experience, and where the weak spots lie - things like wearables, travel apps etc. I just cant really imagine joe the builder being like "damn it doesn't have snapchat, or I'd buy this if only it could operate my Samsung watch".

    I can't really picture it. Especially when if you buy a phone, they only display minimal details like camera megapixles and OS version. I actually sell tablets, and most people don't have a clue what the numbers mean, or much about what they are buying.

    Consumers seem to use basic functions, and know little about OSes, or functions, in my experience. You might get a different impression I think, if your peer group is quite technically oriented.

    Buuut, well they are both valid perspectives. There's no evidence to know for sure either way. You can't prove that apps is what stops people buying windows phones, and I can't prove it isn't. But to me it seems like everything normal, the every day task is pretty well covered. The only real exception being some banks lack apps on win10m. But its not that hard to use a website for that. It's not exactly a deal breaker unless you rely heavily on banking apps for some reason.
    The evidence shows that when the 2 current leading ecosystems took hold, both of which are app-centric, the other ecosystems failed. Look at Blackberry. These exact same arguments were made back then and the same thing happened, market share plummeted.
    As far as the argument that "people only use 4-6 apps regularly", that was proven to mean nothing also because if those particular apps are not available or work poorly, people will leave, which they did.
    The world is a large place and we can't use our individual experiences to explain what happens or will happen as a whole. We only have the past to learn from. I support MS's efforts to build for the future, whatever that future date is. It will surely come and people will be using some non-current-smartphone device in their everyday lives. I would be shocked if it was anytime soon.
    dgr_874 likes this.
    07-22-2017 09:27 AM
  20. mattiasnyc's Avatar
    That isn't Microsoft confirming something though, it's just some to me random person saying something about what Microsoft supposedly said. It does not equate to officially confirming that MS "will no longer add features to W10 Mobile."
    07-22-2017 12:05 PM
  21. PerfectReign's Avatar
    I don't really feel that the average consumer buys a phone based on apps. They rarely even know the storage or cpu of the phone. And as far as apps go, win10m has everything for the basic user other than, in some case, banking.
    Oh they do.

    I gave my younger son my 950xl after his Android phone was smashed during a basketball game. He liked it but missed snapchat, a valid FB messenger that did video, several games, and Chrome. He did have Oovoo and Skype but they were slower.

    Eventually I relented and got him an Iphone SE. It is small but he's been happy because all his apps work. When he and my wife were visiting family in England last month, the only way we got video chat working was through FaceTime. Skype kept blowing up on my wife's 640. (She could care less about apps.)

    My older son won't have an Iphone for the same reason. He's currently sporting a rooted LG V20 with multiple side loaded apps he uses for "research" in networks and such.

    Yes, for the moment, apps matter.
    TgeekB, libra89 and 11B1P like this.
    07-22-2017 04:04 PM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    Oh they do.

    I gave my younger son my 950xl after his Android phone was smashed during a basketball game. He liked it but missed snapchat, a valid FB messenger that did video, several games, and Chrome. He did have Oovoo and Skype but they were slower.

    Eventually I relented and got him an Iphone SE. It is small but he's been happy because all his apps work. When he and my wife were visiting family in England last month, the only way we got video chat working was through FaceTime. Skype kept blowing up on my wife's 640. (She could care less about apps.)

    My older son won't have an Iphone for the same reason. He's currently sporting a rooted LG V20 with multiple side loaded apps he uses for "research" in networks and such.

    Yes, for the moment, apps matter.
    Absolutely. Now someday I'm sure it will be different and we will have moved on to an appless (?) world, but I don't see the current ecosystems being uprooted anytime soon.
    07-22-2017 05:11 PM
  23. FXi2's Avatar
    Sadly iPhone 7s plus or 8 depending.
    07-22-2017 05:11 PM
  24. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Apps schmapps. If you like Windows on a phone just use it. We're all reasonably well informed people here. If not we wouldn't be on a tech site. We all know what a Windows phone can and cannot do, so let's stop pretending this is news. If people keep proclaiming that the end is near and do so long enough, it will eventually become true. Even a broken clock is right twice everyday. At some point people need to realize that their phones aren't going to self destruct. There are no Jim Phelps Lumia special edition phones out there so let's cut the Chicken Little talk. Someone asked for a link earlier and the reply was from another tech site. Someone produce a link from Microsoft and I'll be convinced "Windows is dead".
    Drael646464 likes this.
    07-22-2017 07:09 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    Apps schmapps. If you like Windows on a phone just use it. We're all reasonably well informed people here. If not we wouldn't be on a tech site. We all know what a Windows phone can and cannot do, so let's stop pretending this is news. If people keep proclaiming that the end is near and do so long enough, it will eventually become true. Even a broken clock is right twice everyday. At some point people need to realize that their phones aren't going to self destruct. There are no Jim Phelps Lumia special edition phones out there so let's cut the Chicken Little talk. Someone asked for a link earlier and the reply was from another tech site. Someone produce a link from Microsoft and I'll be convinced "Windows is dead".
    OK, it's extremely old, living in a nursing home and suffering from multiple chronic diseases. Better? 🤣
    07-22-2017 08:10 PM
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