09-12-2017 07:03 PM
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  1. Sargon Aelther's Avatar
    Seeing all these news about NYPD switching from Windows Phone to iPhones reminded me of my own work place and its clients (I work for a Managed Services Provider so I know what many businesses are using).
    We've been using Windows Phones (Mostly Lumia 650s /735s) and now they're all being replaced either with Samsung Js or iPhone 6Ss. The main reason is that Microsoft has simply stopped producing and selling phones, but there are many other reasons such as them simply being laggy, buggy and (as most users would complain) lacking apps & having terrible UIs.

    I think at this point consumers and even businesses have lost all faith in Microsoft's Mobile efforts.
    How Many times has Microsoft rebooted Windows Phone?
    1) WM6.5.3 Pro to WP7
    2) WP7.8 to WP8
    3) WP8.1 to W10M (Yeah yeah a handful of devices were able to upgrade, but they're no longer supported and they used to say that all WP8.1 devices would get upgraded.)
    Why? Why so many reboots? There could have easily been just ONE reboot. They could have changed the kernel at the same time they abandoned 90% of WM Pro features for the sake of live tiles. And if they actually wanted to keep the market share and apps, they should have just built WP7 Tile UI on top of WM6.5.3 Professional, the same way they built the Start Screen on top of Desktop in Windows 8. VERY POOR PLANNING!

    Now while I don't believe them, some rumours say that Microsoft is thinking about (or is already in progress of) rebooting again (Full Windows with C-Shell)?
    It's not gonna work! You can't keep abandoning your users over and over and expect results!
    This late into the Smartphone world NOBODY is going buy a yet another new OS with no apps (and no market share to warrant the development of apps) from a company that has had 3 failed attempts at modern Mobile OS (old School WM was decent for its time).

    Some may say "Oh but if you care about apps, then you're not the target audience for the magical "Surface Phone"".
    Yeah? And who is? Enterprise? Which company is going to buy a ~$1000 device that has no mobile apps and can MAYBE run desktop apps when docked or whatever from a company with a history of mobile failure? CEOs? Ha! CEOs of all people will definitely be using iPhones and iPad Pros, even if other employees use cheap Lenovo laptops.
    What's left then? Windows Logo worshipers? How many of them are there? A thousand at most? Apple has an infinite legion. Maybe a few rich masochists (including myself, not that I'm rich lol) would buy such a device, but nobody else. Not enough to support such a device.

    Windows Phone is dead. Not only as Windows 10 Mobile, but as a concept and an idea in general. The name has been dragged through mud BY MICROSOFT so much that it stinks way worse than the love child of Internet Explorer and Bing (I actually liked IE11, but that's not the point). Even if Microsoft paid billions to Google and Silly-Millennial-Social-Media-App-Companies to support a new Windows Phone, nobody would buy it due to terrible reputation.

    Microsoft's options are, as I see them:
    1) Support Android and iOS with Microsoft apps while abandoning all plans for their own OS and focusing their attention on post-smartphone technology (I bet this is what they're doing at this point. I do not believe in the so called "Surface Phone").
    2) Release an Android Device with a Microsoft skin and a tile-based launcher, while still supporting iOS obviously. It should also include Google Play store no matter what, instead of being some forked droid that nobody will use due to an app gap. Whatever this Microsoft Android device might be called, it should not have the word "Windows" ANYWHERE NEAR IT!

    I've been using NOTHING but Windows Phones since Windows Mobile 6. If I wasn't so masochistic and optimistic I would have jumped ship to Droid as soon as Microsoft unveiled that Featureless-iOS-Wannabe-WP7 as a replacement for Windows Mobile 6.5.3 Professional. You even had to sync WP7 via Zune! If that, combined with lack of basic features and walled garden, is not copying apple of its time then I don't know what is!

    Now I must say that I still love full Windows and other Microsoft products, just not Windows Phones. Not anymore… Waiting for my pre-ordered Note 8 to arrive now and not looking back.

    __________________________________________________________________________
    TL;DNR
    Microsoft has rebooted WP so many times without success that the reputation of a Windows Phone as a brand is dead.
    Nobody is going to buy one no matter how many times they reboot it. The market is lost and it is too late.
    They need to either move on to other upcoming technologies or release an Android Phone without Windows Branding anywhere on it.

    /Rant
    08-29-2017 04:15 PM
  2. Extremevl's Avatar
    Seeing all these news about NYPD switching from Windows Phone to iPhones reminded me of my own work place and its clients (I work for a Managed Services Provider so I know what many businesses are using).
    We've been using Windows Phones (Mostly Lumia 650s /735s) and now they're all being replaced either with Samsung Js or iPhone 6Ss. The main reason is that Microsoft has simply stopped producing and selling phones, but there are many other reasons such as them simply being laggy, buggy and (as most users would complain) lacking apps & having terrible UIs.

    I think at this point consumers and even businesses have lost all faith in Microsoft's Mobile efforts.
    How Many times has Microsoft rebooted Windows Phone?
    1) WM6.5.3 Pro to WP7
    2) WP7.8 to WP8
    3) WP8.1 to W10M (Yeah yeah a handful of devices were able to upgrade, but they're no longer supported and they used to say that all WP8.1 devices would get upgraded.)
    Why? Why so many reboots? There could have easily been just ONE reboot. They could have changed the kernel at the same time they abandoned 90% of WM Pro features for the sake of live tiles. And if they actually wanted to keep the market share and apps, they should have just built WP7 Tile UI on top of WM6.5.3 Professional, the same way they built the Start Screen on top of Desktop in Windows 8. VERY POOR PLANNING!

    Now while I don't believe them, some rumours say that Microsoft is thinking about (or is already in progress of) rebooting again (Full Windows with C-Shell)?
    It's not gonna work! You can't keep abandoning your users over and over and expect results!
    This late into the Smartphone world NOBODY is going buy a yet another new OS with no apps (and no market share to warrant the development of apps) from a company that has had 3 failed attempts at modern Mobile OS (old School WM was decent for its time).

    Some may say "Oh but if you care about apps, then you're not the target audience for the magical "Surface Phone"".
    Yeah? And who is? Enterprise? Which company is going to buy a ~$1000 device that has no mobile apps and can MAYBE run desktop apps when docked or whatever from a company with a history of mobile failure? CEOs? Ha! CEOs of all people will definitely be using iPhones and iPad Pros, even if other employees use cheap Lenovo laptops.
    What's left then? Windows Logo worshipers? How many of them are there? A thousand at most? Apple has an infinite legion. Maybe a few rich masochists (including myself, not that I'm rich lol) would buy such a device, but nobody else. Not enough to support such a device.

    Windows Phone is dead. Not only as Windows 10 Mobile, but as a concept and an idea in general. The name has been dragged through mud BY MICROSOFT so much that it stinks way worse than the love child of Internet Explorer and Bing (I actually liked IE11, but that's not the point). Even if Microsoft paid billions to Google and Silly-Millennial-Social-Media-App-Companies to support a new Windows Phone, nobody would buy it due to terrible reputation.

    Microsoft's options are, as I see them:
    1) Support Android and iOS with Microsoft apps while abandoning all plans for their own OS and focusing their attention on post-smartphone technology (I bet this is what they're doing at this point. I do not believe in the so called "Surface Phone").
    2) Release an Android Device with a Microsoft skin and a tile-based launcher, while still supporting iOS obviously. It should also include Google Play store no matter what, instead of being some forked droid that nobody will use due to an app gap. Whatever this Microsoft Android device might be called, it should not have the word "Windows" ANYWHERE NEAR IT!

    I've been using NOTHING but Windows Phones since Windows Mobile 6. If I wasn't so masochistic and optimistic I would have jumped ship to Droid as soon as Microsoft unveiled that Featureless-iOS-Wannabe-WP7 as a replacement for Windows Mobile 6.5.3 Professional. You even had to sync WP7 via Zune! If that, combined with lack of basic features and walled garden, is not copying apple of its time then I don't know what is!

    Now I must say that I still love full Windows and other Microsoft products, just not Windows Phones. Not anymore… Waiting for my pre-ordered Note 8 to arrive now and not looking back.

    __________________________________________________________________________
    TL;DNR
    Microsoft has rebooted WP so many times without success that the reputation of a Windows Phone as a brand is dead.
    Nobody is going to buy one no matter how many times they reboot it. The market is lost and it is too late.
    They need to either move on to other upcoming technologies or release an Android Phone without Windows Branding anywhere on it.

    /Rant
    Very sad but everything you wrote is totally true...waiting for the Note 8 or Pixel 2
    Iain_S and Elky64 like this.
    08-29-2017 05:24 PM
  3. Ten Four's Avatar
    It's the apps problem, period. I think Microsoft should just close Windows phone efforts at this point and continue to make good apps for Android and iOS.
    kaktus1389, Iain_S, Elky64 and 2 others like this.
    08-29-2017 06:05 PM
  4. Nate W's Avatar
    Probably why Microsoft is so quiet about things...nobody is blind to where they've been and come from. It's been said before but they should just open source W10M after the next reboot, let devs build what should have been for whatever hardware up to SoC 820 and then maybe they'll get some more apps back in there.
    08-29-2017 07:14 PM
  5. Ray Picone's Avatar
    In other words, Microsoft should pack it in and tell Google that they are now the new OS for home users and Microsoft just bow out of the tech business.
    08-29-2017 09:00 PM
  6. fatclue_98's Avatar
    In other words, Microsoft should pack it in and tell Google that they are now the new OS for home users and Microsoft just bow out of the tech business.
    Don't you just love it?

    Sent from my Acer Liquid Jade Primo on mTalk
    editguy likes this.
    08-29-2017 09:34 PM
  7. jlzimmerman's Avatar
    MS thumped the UWP bible all day long and then created an app in-house (LinkedIn was it?) which was just a web wrapper.

    Sums up MS feelings on their own product.
    08-29-2017 10:49 PM
  8. Nate W's Avatar
    MS thumped the UWP bible all day long and then created an app in-house (LinkedIn was it?) which was just a web wrapper.

    Sums up MS feelings on their own product.
    I think that is more of a band aid. Don't you think?
    08-30-2017 03:03 AM
  9. Sargon Aelther's Avatar
    In other words, Microsoft should pack it in and tell Google that they are now the new OS for home users and Microsoft just bow out of the tech business.
    Mobile Hardware / OS business, not tech in general. That's what they've been doing for the past two years. No marketing, no devices. MS apps working better on other platforms.

    Nokia would at least market its phones...
    Iain_S and Tom Snyder like this.
    08-30-2017 04:17 AM
  10. teiva's Avatar
    I've been bitten too many times by Microsoft now as I have a draw full of abandoned tech. They have a great OS in Windows 10 for PC, laptop and even xbox. You can't keep crapping on your consumers and expect loyalty. Windows 10M is dead. Whether they decide to put Win10 itself on a mobile platform, I have no idea. I doubt I'll be buying it if they do.
    08-30-2017 05:35 AM
  11. kaktus1389's Avatar
    I think that is more of a band aid. Don't you think?
    I think that's not how things are supposed to be done and I agree with @jlzimmerman on this. Once you have a philosophy you should stand behind it no matter what. If you found out that it's bad well then you should've thought more about it before you implemented it. Microsoft shot themselves in their feet several times and their stock is up because of Office and Azure and that's exactly what was pushing MS forward under Ballmer too. Except that now they acquired LinkedIn and aren't even capable of developing a proper app for it, Microsoft is a software company and everybody says that to make an excuse why they shouldn't make phones. I disagree, because Windows 10 Mobile IS software, and MS universal apps ARE software. God knows how many capable employees MS has but instead of giving them a job to do they apparently rather see their own software solutions go to hell. But the time will come when Azure and Office won't be carrying MS anymore and if Ballmer would be doing what Nadella is doing now he would probably be fired by now.

    /rant
    Nokia would at least market its phones...
    Ballmer did try to market them. Apparently shareholders who only care about money knew what a proper strategy would be so they fired him.
    08-30-2017 06:51 AM
  12. Jakoh's Avatar
    Its an app problem...in many ways Win 10 is better than Android.
    mtf1380 likes this.
    08-30-2017 01:06 PM
  13. etphoto's Avatar
    I read an article a year or so ago that outlined a cancer patients treatment. When the cancer was found his doctors were giving him a 5% chance of making it. After a few years battling his illness the guy made it. My point, I think WP has a better than 5% chance. Just sayin.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    Last edited by etphoto; 08-30-2017 at 02:55 PM.
    mtf1380 and Bronislav Klofac like this.
    08-30-2017 02:18 PM
  14. Sargon Aelther's Avatar
    I read an article a year or so ago that outlined a cancer patients treatment. When the cancer was found his doctors were giving him a 5% chance of making it. After a few years battling his illness the guy made it. My point, I think WP has a better than 5% chance. Just sayin.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    "Battling" being the key word. Windows Phone was "Battling" under Ballmer. Nadella gave up immediately, and there is no makreting whatsoever, nor any new devices for almost 2 years.

    One must be insane to still think that this has any future.
    08-30-2017 03:06 PM
  15. Nate W's Avatar
    "Battling" being the key word. Windows Phone was "Battling" under Ballmer. Nadella gave up immediately, and there is no makreting whatsoever, nor any new devices for almost 2 years.

    One must be insane to still think that this has any future.
    The thing that gets me, is if none of this had future, then they wasted a whole heck of lot of time on the Insiders, New build releases quarterly/semi anually, and all the other poured in effort from teams all over Micrososft. Are they just going to flip a switch...no, but it definately would have been easier to swallow...
    08-30-2017 03:24 PM
  16. TgeekB's Avatar
    I read an article a year or so ago that outlined a cancer patients treatment. When the cancer was found his doctors were giving him a 5% chance of making it. After a few years battling his illness the guy made it. My point, I think WP has a better than 5% chance. Just sayin.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    Well, since < 1% of people use WP, I'm not sure I'd take your bet.
    Elky64 likes this.
    08-30-2017 04:22 PM
  17. Bobvfr's Avatar
    Sorry to say but the OP's message is pretty much on the mark.

    I have a 950XL, a SP4, desktop and Xbox One my family all use MS products, but without a mobile option, the story for MS and Windows will be affected.

    MS have abandoned too many people with dead ends like the Band, RT, Skype users on older systems and the amount of reboots of WP, if I am forced to use Android or IOS then the pull to keep an integrated system would be too strong, even though I use a Samsung for work, I hate it, but I do really want that one system across all form factors and even if Android had a skin, sorry it would be living a lie.

    I think MS really need to come up with something very soon and have a proper road map in place.
    Mandymoo11, dgr_874 and Tom Snyder like this.
    08-30-2017 05:41 PM
  18. etphoto's Avatar
    Well, since < 1% of people use WP, I'm not sure I'd take your bet.
    I didn't offer a bet and the number of people using WP has nothing to do with a 5% chance of survival. However, I will say Sargon made a good point.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    08-30-2017 06:09 PM
  19. TgeekB's Avatar
    I didn't offer a bet and the number of people using WP has nothing to do with a 5% chance of survival. However, I will say Sargon made a good point.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    The number of people using it has everything to do with its survival.
    We have data to predict cancer survival. I just didn't see where the two were related.
    08-30-2017 06:13 PM
  20. realwarder's Avatar
    It's not dead until the support lifecycle ends. This could be as long as 2019:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ter=FilterNO#;

    Microsoft will continue to provide security updates until these dates.

    I wouldn't expect new features... so it is dead in the way Windows 7 is dead. Still usable and serviced, just no longer being significantly advanced.
    Nate W, editguy and Tom Snyder like this.
    08-30-2017 08:40 PM
  21. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It's not dead until the support lifecycle ends. This could be as long as 2019:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ter=FilterNO#;

    Microsoft will continue to provide security updates until these dates.

    I wouldn't expect new features... so it is dead in the way Windows 7 is dead. Still usable and serviced, just no longer being significantly advanced.
    I would say dead is when the core functions the device came with no longer work, at all. Windows XP has been EOL for how long now? It still works though. As for smartphones, I would put PalmOS and Windows Mobile 6.5 (consumer versions) on the list of dead since neither can fetch any email and their browsers are all but useless. For as dead as webOS is mentioned, Exchange works perfectly and even Skype still works on my Touchpad.

    When people say an OS is missing this feature or that feature and proclaim it dead, then the question becomes "did it ever have it in the first place?" You mentioned Windows 7. It doesn't have Cortana so should we dump a shovel full of dirt on it?

    Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk
    editguy, aximtreo, fin11 and 1 others like this.
    08-30-2017 08:59 PM
  22. TgeekB's Avatar
    I would say dead is when the core functions the device came with no longer work, at all. Windows XP has been EOL for how long now? It still works though. As for smartphones, I would put PalmOS and Windows Mobile 6.5 (consumer versions) on the list of dead since neither can fetch any email and their browsers are all but useless. For as dead as webOS is mentioned, Exchange works perfectly and even Skype still works on my Touchpad.

    When people say an OS is missing this feature or that feature and proclaim it dead, then the question becomes "did it ever have it in the first place?" You mentioned Windows 7. It doesn't have Cortana so should we dump a shovel full of dirt on it?

    Sent from my HP Elite x3 on mTalk
    That's how people look at things like this differently. It certainly is not dead as in it doesn't work, maybe really sick is a better description (and with the right medicine can live with its chronic disease for many more years). For some that's perfectly acceptable, for some it's not.

    It would be like owning a car that still runs but is not being produced any more and it's getting hard to find parts for. For people mechanically inclined, and who like to work on cars, they may be able to keep the car running for another 10 years or so. Most people don't want that hassle though when there are newer cars still being built. Personal preference and neither is right or wrong.
    Elky64, aximtreo, zmancb7 and 1 others like this.
    08-30-2017 09:19 PM
  23. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It would be like owning a car that still runs but is not being produced any more and it's getting hard to find parts for. For people mechanically inclined, and who like to work on cars, they may be able to keep the car running for another 10 years or so.
    My fellow Cubans on the island didn't get that memo. There is a treasure trove of pre-revolution (1959) cars and Harleys still on the road. Granted, most of them have pistons from Russian farm equipment, Skoda clutches and pressure plates, rear ends from a Moskvitch.......
    editguy, aximtreo and Tom Snyder like this.
    08-30-2017 09:39 PM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    My fellow Cubans on the island didn't get that memo. There is a treasure trove of pre-revolution (1959) cars and Harleys still on the road. Granted, most of them have pistons from Russian farm equipment, Skoda clutches and pressure plates, rear ends from a Moskvitch.......
    Thank you for making my point. Unless Cuba is going to buy up all the Windows phones....resourceful people!
    08-30-2017 09:45 PM
  25. TgeekB's Avatar
    BTW, when I was a kid I used to have a shortwave radio and my favorite channel was Radio Havana Cuba. Loved the music and conversation.
    08-30-2017 09:48 PM
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