01-27-2018 11:41 AM
29 12
tools
  1. WPuser2012's Avatar
    Is there any future left for us who are using Windows phones ?,

    Windows Phone internals gave some little hope but do you guys think can

    we survive with this O.S ? I am still using 950XL. But the O.S future looks

    questionable. what are your thoughts ? Is it worth to hang on with existing phones until Surface phone comes out ? do anyone think Microsoft is going to support mobile ?
    01-23-2018 11:27 AM
  2. dustkicka's Avatar
    Is there any future left for us who are using Windows phones ?,

    Windows Phone internals gave some little hope but do you guys think can

    we survive with this O.S ? I am still using 950XL. But the O.S future looks

    questionable. what are your thoughts ? Is it worth to hang on with existing phones until Surface phone comes out ? do anyone think Microsoft is going to support mobile ?
    Their dev tools suggest wm10 has some future. Exactly what. Who knows
    01-23-2018 11:34 AM
  3. rollindice's Avatar
    I love the UI, best mobile platform in my opinion in terms of ecosystem, it's just the CEO's head is too much in the clouds to see it, there's no reason to stop development of W10M,let alone leave markets where there was good numbers of iPhone because you're not hitting home (USA) with those same numbers, put effort into your own OS and you'll come out great no doubt. There's talk of win 10 on ARM for smaller devices but it's no excuse to totally pull plug on w10m , mobile is crucial for development of your own ecosystem. Time will tell
    Old_Mil likes this.
    01-23-2018 01:21 PM
  4. Elky64's Avatar
    Personally, these kind of questions don't even cross my mind any more. You know the old adage "actions speak louder than words". Well due to MSFT's actions, or lack thereof, over the past few years I've lost all confidence in their abilities, Mobile AND PC. Even if they came out with something earth-shattering that looked to be the be-all and end-all on the mobility front it would take several years before they'd regain my trust/confidence again (if ever).

    The thing is, there is a lot of talk and speculation on this subject floating around but it means absolutely nothing in the REAL sense if MSFT continues their wayward ways. I'm pretty confident in saying the only assured thing right now (today) is that it will only get worse. Another apps demise is all it takes for that to be true.

    Worth hanging on? Only "YOU" as an individual can answer that question. Does it suffice for your needs at the present time, are you happy enough using it? If you are hanging on based on talk and speculation then IMHO you are cheating yourself because nobody actually knows, doubting MSFT does either. So do whatever feels right for YOU and not because of what others think.
    Guytronic likes this.
    01-23-2018 04:59 PM
  5. Krystianpants's Avatar
    I love the UI, best mobile platform in my opinion in terms of ecosystem, it's just the CEO's head is too much in the clouds to see it, there's no reason to stop development of W10M,let alone leave markets where there was good numbers of iPhone because you're not hitting home (USA) with those same numbers, put effort into your own OS and you'll come out great no doubt. There's talk of win 10 on ARM for smaller devices but it's no excuse to totally pull plug on w10m , mobile is crucial for development of your own ecosystem. Time will tell
    Windows 10 mobile is closed source and has no api to create great themes and UI. Android on the other hand is open source and lets you do anything. So when you look at some of the android UI's out there, including windows themes that change everything even settings and add live tiles, you realize that windows 10 just can't win based on UI alone.

    original.jpg
    Guytronic and jmshub like this.
    01-24-2018 08:00 AM
  6. mggm100's Avatar
    I'm still using 950 XL, but as far as my future goes, I am researching iOS and Android options and trying to find a phone with a good camera. I don't need a "flagship," just a good camera. I also want something that will integrate with my PC as much as possible. I'm beginning to think Android with the Windows launcher is currently my best bet.
    nwnjjim likes this.
    01-24-2018 08:02 AM
  7. Nate W's Avatar
    Windows 10 mobile is closed source and has no api to create great themes and UI. Android on the other hand is open source and lets you do anything. So when you look at some of the android UI's out there, including windows themes that change everything even settings and add live tiles, you realize that windows 10 just can't win based on UI alone.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What is interesting is that Windows 10 is not trying to compete. There is no need to win when the UI/UX is their creation. So much so that even it is popular in the Android store and devices...
    If iOS had this theme availble to install, it too would get some love. So in my opinion Windows 10 Mobile won that aspect long ago. No need to re-compete in the UI department...
    @WPuser2012, Windows phones have a future if you have a future with them, plain and simple. Still using one and will so until the OS is complete eradicated, which could be a while.
    mtf1380 and fin11 like this.
    01-24-2018 12:31 PM
  8. TechFreak1's Avatar
    No, other than bug fixes and security patches for devices that are on the creators update, fall creators update or anniversay update there will be no more features.

    Windows Phone code has been merged into the Windows Core, therefore Windows 10 on ARM is an extension of Windows on desktop and Phones - simplest way to look at it.

    So if you want to keep using Windows Phone, you can do so.

    Also HeathCliff74 from XDA has released the updated version of his "Windows Phone internals" tool so you could flash a rom from a supported device on a older phone that is compatible so the use of this tool is at your own risk.

    If you flash an incompatabile rom then you will more than likely will end up with a useless paperweight.


    www.windowscentral.com/windows-phone-internals-23-released-unlocks-bootloader-any-lumia
    jmshub and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-24-2018 02:54 PM
  9. Krystianpants's Avatar
    What is interesting is that Windows 10 is not trying to compete. There is no need to win when the UI/UX is their creation. So much so that even it is popular in the Android store and devices...
    If iOS had this theme availble to install, it too would get some love. So in my opinion Windows 10 Mobile won that aspect long ago. No need to re-compete in the UI department...
    @WPuser2012, Windows phones have a future if you have a future with them, plain and simple. Still using one and will so until the OS is complete eradicated, which could be a while.
    The whole point is that you are stuck with windows tiles for windows phone. In fact, many people I know think they are dull. Even people who use windows 10 desktop complain about them. They are outdated to a lot of people including me. So it's a niche audience. Android on the other hand is so customizable it can fill EVERY NICHE. There is nothing you can't do on android. So this allows for a broader audience vs. just the windows fans.

    OEMs can't even distinguish themselves because MS doesn't have a good themeing implementation.
    Laura Knotek and Guytronic like this.
    01-24-2018 04:38 PM
  10. TechFreak1's Avatar
    The whole point is that you are stuck with windows tiles for windows phone. In fact, many people I know think they are dull. Even people who use windows 10 desktop complain about them. They are outdated to a lot of people including me. So it's a niche audience. Android on the other hand is so customizable it can fill EVERY NICHE. There is nothing you can't do on android. So this allows for a broader audience vs. just the windows fans.

    OEMs can't even distinguish themselves because MS doesn't have a good themeing implementation.
    You're conflating two things, the start screen and interaction method

    Live tiles are not dull, who ever thinks live tiles are dull either has not lived during the 90s or has a very short attention span.

    People do not remember ios did not have copy and paste, did not have the webos card style multi tasking, it had a moronic task manager where double tapping the home button opened up a horizontal list of icons that wiggled.

    As a 29 year old who has lived through the progression of 3210 and monophonic tones to colour screens and polyphonic tones, mp3 players, 64 megabyte usb sticks, floppy disks, 100 mhz pcs and pcs with 1.6 megabytes of ram, crt monitors, push button tvs, wind up radios, dial up and so on.

    Icons are dull.

    Icons have not progressed at all from the original xerox UX.

    The customisations of Android you are refering is the interactions between the user and o/s however the primary base of ios and Android is still icons. That is not my opinion, it's just fact.

    Live tiles are leaps and bounds better than Icons as there is no progression path beyond a snippet of notification and notification indicator + number of notifications.

    Which is why Apple added widgets.

    The only way Google and Apple will over come the limitation of Icons is by embracing a gesture based UX (case in point the gesture based iphone x) and for that to happen AR and VR will have to pick up in a big way.

    What let Live tiles down is messaging towards developers, I recall seeing a developer from Microsoft show casing mix view and he said I quote "with mix view I don't have to bother opening up the app" which is the most idiotic thing to say.

    Why would you want to develop an app if people aren't going to bother opening up the app?

    Either way to assert Live tiles are dull as fact is simply does not take in to fact there has no shift or progression from icons from 1973 or so.

    Let that sink in, 1973.

    45 years and there has been no change.

    So yes, Icons are outdated by almost 50 years.
    jmshub, fin11 and anon(10324754) like this.
    01-24-2018 08:31 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    The whole point is that you are stuck with windows tiles for windows phone. In fact, many people I know think they are dull. Even people who use windows 10 desktop complain about them. They are outdated to a lot of people including me. So it's a niche audience.
    This was me. I had reasons for liking and using Windows Phone, but I used it in spite of the Live Tiles. I didn't really like them. I felt like they were an inefficient use of valuable limited real estate. However, had they worked better, and were interactive like Android widgets, that would have helped immensely.
    jmshub, Krystianpants and libra89 like this.
    01-24-2018 09:00 PM
  12. Old_Mil's Avatar
    I honestly think that the longer that Nadella controls the company the less usable Microsoft product you will see for business or consumers. He simply isn't interested in competing in the device or operating system space.

    With every passing year, Windows is losing market share and it's naïve to believe that a generation raised on android/chrome/iOS will suddenly adopt the Windows platform when they are decision makers in the workforce.

    But the stock options are doing well, who cares about the future... i
    01-24-2018 09:33 PM
  13. Nate W's Avatar
    The whole point is that you are stuck with windows tiles for windows phone. In fact, many people I know think they are dull. Even people who use windows 10 desktop complain about them. They are outdated to a lot of people including me. So it's a niche audience. Android on the other hand is so customizable it can fill EVERY NICHE. There is nothing you can't do on android. So this allows for a broader audience vs. just the windows fans.

    OEMs can't even distinguish themselves because MS doesn't have a good themeing implementation.
    Yet theming is only one aspect of what makes a device a smartphone
    01-24-2018 10:39 PM
  14. Nate W's Avatar
    This was me. I had reasons for liking and using Windows Phone, but I used it in spite of the Live Tiles. I didn't really like them. I felt like they were an inefficient use of valuable limited real estate. However, had they worked better, and were interactive like Android widgets, that would have helped immensely.
    That is a good point. They almost had something going with the McLaren and chasing tiles. But of course like the path Windows 10 mobile is heading towards, there is not enough room to invest in those features. W10M has served most of its purpose I assume, now we just wait to see if Microsoft challenges themselves to go at it again...
    01-24-2018 10:43 PM
  15. Krystianpants's Avatar
    You're conflating two things, the start screen and interaction method

    Live tiles are not dull, who ever thinks live tiles are dull either has not lived during the 90s or has a very short attention span.

    People do not remember ios did not have copy and paste, did not have the webos card style multi tasking, it had a moronic task manager where double tapping the home button opened up a horizontal list of icons that wiggled.

    As a 29 year old who has lived through the progression of 3210 and monophonic tones to colour screens and polyphonic tones, mp3 players, 64 megabyte usb sticks, floppy disks, 100 mhz pcs and pcs with 1.6 megabytes of ram, crt monitors, push button tvs, wind up radios, dial up and so on.

    Icons are dull.

    Icons have not progressed at all from the original xerox UX.

    The customisations of Android you are refering is the interactions between the user and o/s however the primary base of ios and Android is still icons. That is not my opinion, it's just fact.

    Live tiles are leaps and bounds better than Icons as there is no progression path beyond a snippet of notification and notification indicator + number of notifications.

    Which is why Apple added widgets.

    The only way Google and Apple will over come the limitation of Icons is by embracing a gesture based UX (case in point the gesture based iphone x) and for that to happen AR and VR will have to pick up in a big way.

    What let Live tiles down is messaging towards developers, I recall seeing a developer from Microsoft show casing mix view and he said I quote "with mix view I don't have to bother opening up the app" which is the most idiotic thing to say.

    Why would you want to develop an app if people aren't going to bother opening up the app?

    Either way to assert Live tiles are dull as fact is simply does not take in to fact there has no shift or progression from icons from 1973 or so.

    Let that sink in, 1973.

    45 years and there has been no change.

    So yes, Icons are outdated by almost 50 years.
    I think that material design icons of newer Android versions look great. They add some depth to the icons and make them easy to find. Tiles are like looking at an advertisement page in a newspaper. I find it hard to find things sometimes and am forced to turn off live tiles and try to keep things monotone. And when you keep things monotone you are simply seeing white icons with white text. Why do you think people love the transparency feature on the windows phones? It adds a bit of depth to the flat design. Tiles could be made better and have a lot of room for customization from icon sets to even different shaped tiles. Ms could create something that allows real themes to be applied with one click from the store. And there could be paid licensed themes and user themes.

    See the problem is that windows actually has an amazing notification center it makes live tiles completely useless. I pull down the action center and have all my information nicely categorized by app. Widgets aren't even that popular in android and my own anectodal experience is that people on ios that i know don't care for them. Again this is my own experience. Just like you have your own views on tiles.

    I remember tiles very well from those days of free AOL discs.

    untitled.png
    Guytronic and Laura Knotek like this.
    01-25-2018 09:13 AM
  16. ManofGod1000's Avatar
    I think that material design icons of newer Android versions look great. They add some depth to the icons and make them easy to find. Tiles are like looking at an advertisement page in a newspaper. I find it hard to find things sometimes and am forced to turn off live tiles and try to keep things monotone. And when you keep things monotone you are simply seeing white icons with white text. Why do you think people love the transparency feature on the windows phones? It adds a bit of depth to the flat design. Tiles could be made better and have a lot of room for customization from icon sets to even different shaped tiles. Ms could create something that allows real themes to be applied with one click from the store. And there could be paid licensed themes and user themes.

    See the problem is that windows actually has an amazing notification center it makes live tiles completely useless. I pull down the action center and have all my information nicely categorized by app. Widgets aren't even that popular in android and my own anectodal experience is that people on ios that i know don't care for them. Again this is my own experience. Just like you have your own views on tiles.

    I remember tiles very well from those days of free AOL discs.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Strange, I look at my Windows 10 Mobile screens and they look nothing like that. Neither does any of my Windows 10 Pro computers. Guess you must be mistaken.
    01-25-2018 04:23 PM
  17. G4Grandad's Avatar
    "it makes live tiles completely useless"??????????
    Live tiles are unique, functional, beautiful and mesmerizing. My grandchildren love their iPhones but always ask to look my L830 screen to watch the tiles change. Especially the News, Photos and Weather tiles which give the most vivid examples of that uniqueness. And always say they wish their iPhones and iPads could do that. If a 4 year old Lumia phone can do that Live Tiles must surely be something very special.
    fin11 likes this.
    01-25-2018 05:28 PM
  18. TgeekB's Avatar
    Live tiles to me always looked too busy. I don’t want my screen flipping this way and that. Just my personal opinion.
    Guytronic likes this.
    01-25-2018 07:08 PM
  19. Guytronic's Avatar
    Live tiles to me always looked too busy. I don’t want my screen flipping this way and that. Just my personal opinion.
    I was going to reply here with similar words.
    Got tired of flipping and flopping tile's myself.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-25-2018 08:07 PM
  20. tgp's Avatar
    Got tired of flipping and flopping tile's myself.
    I had a bigger issue with them not being interactive. They are actually quite dumb. They don't show relevant data much. And when you tap a Live Tile to open the app, they do just that; open the app. They should open the app directly to what is showing on the tile.

    I guess I was spoiled by Android widgets.
    Laura Knotek and Guytronic like this.
    01-25-2018 10:20 PM
  21. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I had a bigger issue with them not being interactive. They are actually quite dumb. They don't show relevant data much. And when you tap a Live Tile to open the app, they do just that; open the app. They should open the app directly to what is showing on the tile.

    I guess I was spoiled by Android widgets.
    I agree. More often than not, Live Tiles were dead and failed to update. 😞 I don't have that problem with Android widgets.
    Guytronic and tgp like this.
    01-26-2018 03:18 AM
  22. TechFreak1's Avatar
    I think that material design icons of newer Android versions look great. They add some depth to the icons and make them easy to find. Tiles are like looking at an advertisement page in a newspaper. I find it hard to find things sometimes and am forced to turn off live tiles and try to keep things monotone. And when you keep things monotone you are simply seeing white icons with white text. Why do you think people love the transparency feature on the windows phones? It adds a bit of depth to the flat design. Tiles could be made better and have a lot of room for customization from icon sets to even different shaped tiles. Ms could create something that allows real themes to be applied with one click from the store. And there could be paid licensed themes and user themes.

    See the problem is that windows actually has an amazing notification center it makes live tiles completely useless. I pull down the action center and have all my information nicely categorized by app. Widgets aren't even that popular in android and my own anectodal experience is that people on ios that i know don't care for them. Again this is my own experience. Just like you have your own views on tiles.

    I remember tiles very well from those days of free AOL discs.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	untitled.png 
Views:	73 
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    I remember the AOL disks... used to get a stack of them every single week along with freeserve and compuserve cds. At one point they even shipped out floppy disks... .

    The reason why we are having this debate about live tiles stems from the fact live tiles along with iconography have not evolved much since Wp7. Other than addition of a tile size, the move of the arrow from the side of the screen to the bottom of the screen, tile transparency and tile folders in terms of start screen changes.

    The material design of Android is whether you like or not is based on similiar design concepts of the Metro design language, bar the use of tiles.

    Tiles do have some customisable options albeit added a little late they are still there, however one option that would have gone a long away is giving the user choice in pinning a transparent tile or not as opposed to leaving it upto developers.

    In regards to shapes, there were different shapes in the early preview builds but they were removed unfortunately.

    The icon sets, true that would have given alot more customisability and user freedom. Microsoft at that time was very stringent on having base experience across the board hence why some WM6.x phones couldn't update to Wp7 - the reason why they didn't have the three dedicated buttons thus there would be no base line experience across the board. However they over reacted and lapsed the restrictions too much hence why OEM's just chucked out phones with nonsenical buttons or using the same buttons as on their android phones.

    In regards to tile placement, if you find information hard to find then you have the option to pin less tiles or use large tiles and increase the display scaling should wish. Or have no tiles at all and just have app list and the notification centre. No one is making anyone to pin apps on the start screen, it's your phone, customise it how you want.

    Lastly that AOL image, I see what you're doing lol - you are using base iconography to shape your argument whilst ignoring key multiple facts - some of which have been outlined above.

    However when discussing design, you need to understand your own bias otherwise any design discussion based on biased principles will have fundamental flaws.

    I have one question for you, have you used windows phone 24/7 as a sole device for work - writing contracts, conducting financial transactions and personal usage - listening to music, social apps etc?
    Nate W and fin11 like this.
    01-26-2018 08:49 AM
  23. kbagrows's Avatar
    I'm beginning to think Android with the Windows launcher is currently my best bet.
    That's what I use (also moved on from my 950XL) and it really works well. Take your time with your search.... I am using a LG V20, and the camera is not as good as the XL. IMO, that is the only downgrade. I really love the MS Launcher!
    01-26-2018 10:35 AM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    That's what I use (also moved on from my 950XL) and it really works well. Take your time with your search.... I am using a LG V20, and the camera is not as good as the XL. IMO, that is the only downgrade. I really love the MS Launcher!
    Seems like a lot of people have moved to this and enjoy the experience.
    01-27-2018 08:55 AM
  25. ManofGod1000's Avatar
    Seems like a lot of people have moved to this and enjoy the experience.
    I personally cannot stand adding a launcher on top of another launcher. It just slows the phone down and forces you to do things a specific way. (At least that was my experience.) It took me months to finally settle on a setup that would work for my on my Android phone and I have not bothered with trying other launchers since.

    Single page of icons, reddit's and scripture of the day. Calendar to the left, email to the right and that is it. If I need anything else, swipe up to go to the all apps list and open what I need, which is rare and why I put my most used stuff on a single page.
    01-27-2018 09:08 AM
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