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05-12-2017 08:58 AM
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  1. ads13's Avatar
    We know that w10 isn't fix their OS issues yet including laggy Store.

    And Win10 S is mostly based on Store Apps for security reasons.

    Will buying a 'W10 S' powered system is a right decision?

    Share your views.
    05-02-2017 04:22 PM
  2. davidhk129's Avatar
    For $999 ?

    Hell, NO.
    But then, I am tightwad.

    OK, all kidding aside. Let me explain my take on this topic.

    I'm in Canada.

    US exchange rate : $1 US = $1.37 CDN

    Surface Laptop = $999 US. That's $1369.68 CDN
    If I decide to switch to Win 10 Po, that's another $49 US = $67.18 CDN
    Total cost for a brand new Surface Laptop after switching to Win 10 Pro = $1436.86 CDN

    I can buy a brand new Surface 4 Pro from Microsoft Store (Canada) for $999 CDN.

    Mind you, MS Store always is more expensive. I probably can get a SP4 Pro cheaper in retails stores.

    So, why am I sticking my neck out for an uninspiring Surface Laptop ?

    Because it is a new "toy" ?
    Last edited by davidhk129; 05-02-2017 at 07:03 PM.
    05-02-2017 05:27 PM
  3. Kebero's Avatar
    There are other devices. It's not just the Surface Laptop.
    JaimitoFrog likes this.
    05-02-2017 07:52 PM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    Sure, I think this OS will really suite some users and organisations.

    It's faster on some metrics according to the demo speech, more secure, doesn't have options like command, is easier to deploy/maintain.

    I am quite interested in how they have sped it up, and reduced battery drain. I am betting it runs less services.

    Microsoft teams for schools in particular seems quite powerful.

    Libraries also seem like ideal candidates for the OS.

    Depending on ones needs of course.
    Josiah23 likes this.
    05-03-2017 01:26 AM
  5. StevenMcDolly's Avatar
    Just buy device from 3rd manufacturers. It's better. The price is too high for student. At the same price or a little bit more, macbook from Apple is better. IMO.
    05-03-2017 06:38 AM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    Just buy device from 3rd manufacturers. It's better. The price is too high for student. At the same price or a little bit more, macbook from Apple is better. IMO.
    According to the demo, MacBook has less battery life, runs slower, has no touch or pen support, and is heavier and thicker than surface laptop. Being the surface can also be upgraded to pro for free for students*, if the store isn't enough AND it has educational discounts on price I can't really see any area where the MacBook beats it. Not even looks or design quality :P hehe (No offence intended, consider it a playful rib, if you are a MacBook fan)

    Although I'll agree with the rest, for most students , those not wanting to be cool, or have "premium build quality" - some other hybrid or notebook running windows s, would probably be a better choice, if price is a factor.

    There are quite a lot all announced with the reveal, a range of prices and forms from basement prices up to premium, hybrids included if you want that touch and pen action foreground rather than the notebook being primary.

    That would probably be my pick, personally. There's an article on all the others on the front page somewhere if one was interested. May as well look at the options.

    Here:

    http://www.windowscentral.com/micros...ell-and-others

    *Not sure the language being thrown around regarding "upgraded" makes sense. Windows S is supposed to login and load apps quicker (to compete with chromeOS). No one has tested it yet, to see if microsofts claims are true, but if it is actually faster than traditional windows 10 calling it 'upgraded' is IMO an misnomer. More like 'sidegraded' or something. A student can certain benefit by having their apps and system "right there".
    HeyCori and Mach_E like this.
    05-03-2017 06:48 AM
  7. pkcable's Avatar
    GREAT topic! And I heard someone complain about the price of the Surface Laptop, and I get it. It's the same complaint fans of Chrome OS might have of the Pixel Chromebook! HOWEVER with the Chrome OS fortunately you have plenty of other choices that are affordable, from other manufacturer. I'm sure the same thing will happen here, and most likely the same players, Asus, Acer, Samsung, Dell, HP, etc will make more afforable Win 10 S laptops. Heck some might even make a model with an option for Win 10 S OR Chrome OS! lol
    HeyCori and Drael646464 like this.
    05-03-2017 04:04 PM
  8. HeyCori's Avatar
    I don't see a logical reason to buy a Windows 10 S device unless it is being bought for someone else (i.e. a school/department buying it for students). There are already plenty of Windows 10 devices ranging from $199 and up. There's no need to limit yourself to S. The only reason would be if you just really want the Surface Laptop and don't mind unlocking full Windows.
    05-03-2017 05:57 PM
  9. EspHack's Avatar
    has there been a time before? oh, you want to speculate on the future?

    my prediction: most people wont notice as soon as google ports chrome to store, that wont take long

    and then on the long run, unlike RT, this is full windows being capped, easily reversible, jailbreaks incoming...
    05-03-2017 05:59 PM
  10. davidhk129's Avatar
    If you don't mind being restricted to using " apps from Windows Store ONLY".

    If you don't mind being restricted to using Edge as default browser and nobody else.

    If you don't mind being restricted to using Bing as your one and only search provider.

    If you don't mind spending hard earned money on something which dictates what you can or cannot use.

    Go right ahead, buy one and enjoy.
    Last edited by davidhk129; 05-04-2017 at 11:24 AM.
    05-04-2017 08:43 AM
  11. SL2's Avatar
    If you don't mind being restricted to using " apps from Windows Store ONLY".

    If you don't mind being restricted to using Edge as default browser and nobody else.

    If you don't mind being restricted to using Bing as your one and only search provider.

    If you don't mind spending hard earned money on something which dictates what you can or cannot use.

    Go right ahead, buy one and enjoy.
    You can't just focus on the OS when the Pro version is only $50 more. The big question is how the hardware is.

    If this laptop was sold with Pro for $1050 no one would have questioned the price like this, now we're presented with this cheaper S version and people are complaining. FYI, I wouldn't stay with S either. ;)

    Besides, the Pro version is a free upgrade for the Surface Laptop for the rest of the year so no need to complain yet.
    v.png

    On the other hand, this doesn't look like a product that MS should sell with 10S, it makes it look cheaper than it is..
    10 S makes more sense on a HP Stream and similar budget models.
    05-04-2017 01:29 PM
  12. davidhk129's Avatar
    If this laptop was sold with Pro for $1050 no one would have questioned the price like this,
    I would. See my post #2.
    I can buy a Surface 4 Pro running Win 10 Pro for $999 CDN.
    Why should I pay for extra $50 U.S to switch a $999 US Surface Laptop to Pro ?

    How much does it cost to buy a Surface Pro 4 in your country, may I ask ?
    Last edited by davidhk129; 05-04-2017 at 02:06 PM.
    05-04-2017 01:49 PM
  13. davidhk129's Avatar
    Please note that my "objection" is directed at Surface Laptop.

    If one buys a cheap $189 computer ( even a $300 device ) running Win 10 S, it is a great deal to spend another $50 to switch to Pro version.
    For sure !
    05-04-2017 02:28 PM
  14. kaktus1389's Avatar
    There aren't many Windows 10 S devices out there so I don't think that people are widely aware of Windows 10 S' existence, but if the people are aware of it and have enough money to buy the Surface Laptop and they need that kind of device, then why not.

    As already pointed out several times by Daniel Rubino and members of this forum, Surface devices are premium products, made of premium materials and as expected they have a premium price. If you can't afford to spend 999$ on a laptop like that, when you can probably get a better laptop for the same amount of money if you're tight on budget, then simply don't buy it. Other OEMs will eventually start making similar devices soon so if you're tight on budget or don't want to spend as much money for a premium device like Surface Laptop you shouldn't and no one expects you to do so as Microsoft is pricing the products so high just to give the OEMs more space.
    05-04-2017 04:22 PM
  15. davidhk129's Avatar
    ............... but if the people are aware of it and have enough money to buy the Surface Laptop and they need that kind of device, then why not.....................

    It is not about if one can afford it. It's about the stupidity of spending $999US for Surface Laptop running Windows 10 S and then having to pay another $50 US to switch to Windows 10 Pro.
    All this time, Surface Pro 4 cost less and runs Window 10 Pro.
    Tell me what Surface Laptop does that Surface Pro 4 cannot do ?

    .......... As already pointed out several times by Daniel Rubino and members of this forum, Surface devices are premium products, made of premium materials and as expected they have a premium price...............

    Are you saying that Surface Pro 4 is not a premium product ?
    05-04-2017 04:45 PM
  16. SL2's Avatar
    I can buy a Surface 4 Pro running Win 10 Pro for $999 CDN.
    Why should I pay for extra $50 U.S to switch a $999 US Surface Laptop to Pro ?
    I'm not sure that comparing MSRP for a just launched product with the actual price of an older product really tells us much.
    How much does it cost to buy a Surface Pro 4 in your country, may I ask ?
    The cheapest one, Surface Pro 4 M3 4GB 128GB, cost 906 USD (including 25 % value added taxes).
    It started at about the same price as the Surface Laptop does today though, that's why I questioned the price comparison. Besides, the type cover isn't included with this SP 4, and an i5 7200 CPU is much faster than an M3 6Y30, we're talking 4 threads running at 2.5/3.1 GHz versus 2 threads at 0.9/2.2 GHz. They're listed with the same price at Intel, but that's not the point, I'm just saying they're not comparable in terms of performance.

    A person who needs an SP 4 would probably not buy an SL (Surface Laptop), a person who needs a laptop would not buy an SP 4, at least that's what I think. I think the SL should be compared to similar laptops.

    I have no need for touch input at all, and I'd hate the need for the added physical support for a SP when using the type cover.
    kaktus1389 and JaimitoFrog like this.
    05-04-2017 04:59 PM
  17. kaktus1389's Avatar
    Are you saying that Surface Pro 4 is not a premium product ?
    I never said that, so I do not know where you got that from. I said SURFACE DEVICES, which is plural so I really really can't see where did you get that from. Not everyone is responding to your comments only ;)


    Tell me what Surface Laptop does that Surface Pro 4 cannot do ?
    It's not about can't or cannot, but how well. Surface Laptop has newer generation processors which include newer generation integrated graphics. It has different speaker system and it's lighter. You don't need to purchase a type cover separately and here I'd like to point out that in Europe Surface Pro 4 is more expensive than in the US and Canada. Some people don't need the Pro version of the system, because with the office available through the Store they can get a lot of applications.

    This is not a gaming machine and not intended to be used with pen (it can be used with pen, but it's not included like with the Surface Pro 4), so any apps for artists like Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw are not intended to be used on this - MS made Surface Book and Studio specifically for people who need more power for their work, especially with pen.

    What I wanted to say is that MS was targeting different groups of people with their products. Yes, Surface Pro 4 is used by students too, but I guess some don't need any apps outside the Windows Store, mainly do just browsing and use Office, don't want to use type cover or don't need a pen, even if I almost can't imagine not using a pen if it's available for notes.

    It's simple - want a traditional laptop and don't need any apps outside Windows Store (but can upgrade to pro anyway) with latest generation of Intel processor that is also good looking and you have money?

    Go buy Surface Laptop. Do you want a device with 2 year old processor that is mainly meant to be used as tablet but can also function as a laptop with the type cover and you are a big pen user & also need apps outside Windows Store and is also good looking? Go buy Surface Pro 4.
    SL2 likes this.
    05-04-2017 05:08 PM
  18. SL2's Avatar
    It is not about if one can afford it. It's about the stupidity of spending $999US for Surface Laptop running Windows 10 S and then having to pay another $50 US to switch to Windows 10 Pro
    But it's for free for the rest of the year, I've already told you that.
    kaktus1389 likes this.
    05-04-2017 05:10 PM
  19. Drael646464's Avatar
    ............... but if the people are aware of it and have enough money to buy the Surface Laptop and they need that kind of device, then why not.....................

    It is not about if one can afford it. It's about the stupidity of spending $999US for Surface Laptop running Windows 10 S and then having to pay another $50 US to switch to Windows 10 Pro.
    All this time, Surface Pro 4 cost less and runs Window 10 Pro.
    Tell me what Surface Laptop does that Surface Pro 4 cannot do ?

    .......... As already pointed out several times by Daniel Rubino and members of this forum, Surface devices are premium products, made of premium materials and as expected they have a premium price...............

    Are you saying that Surface Pro 4 is not a premium product ?
    Have a normal laptop form factor?
    SL2 likes this.
    05-04-2017 10:47 PM
  20. JaimitoFrog's Avatar
    This is Win10S thread, not sure why people are arguing about SL. Yes, they showcased it to demonstrate that Win10S can run on a premium laptop, not just the $189 crap that schools use. The question is, will Win10S be on the next SP or SB? One thing i noticed with SL though, is that it wakes from standby really fast. I hope someone will test it with W10S v W10Pro on the same machine, and compare boot times, battery standby life, etc.
    05-09-2017 12:22 AM
  21. Drael646464's Avatar
    This is Win10S thread, not sure why people are arguing about SL. Yes, they showcased it to demonstrate that Win10S can run on a premium laptop, not just the $189 crap that schools use. The question is, will Win10S be on the next SP or SB? One thing i noticed with SL though, is that it wakes from standby really fast. I hope someone will test it with W10S v W10Pro on the same machine, and compare boot times, battery standby life, etc.
    We've been told not to expect a SP. They said specifically something like "the hardware in sp4 is good for years to come, and we don't want to make another unless we are adding something new to it".

    They might make a sb2, if they can add to it. But I expect the next surface device of this kind will be windows on arm, late this year. A regular 'surface', not pro, running on the latest QUALCOMM chip, with a focus on its LTE/telephony, gps etc. It might even be a little smaller, given the focus on mobility.

    The next surface device won't be windows s. However we are getting something new announced this may, from the surface team. I expect its a HoloLens ready for the consumer public. Or a mixed reality device.

    The demo speech said of windows s "15 seconds to login and open an app on windows s, 40 seconds for pro." They also said fast to wake.

    I suspect these are features of S, not the surface laptop. Thats certainly the impression MS gave. But of course, everyone being fixated on the store element, no one has timed the thing yet, or run windows store based benchmarks (antutu is on there I am pretty sure).
    05-09-2017 08:22 AM
  22. SL2's Avatar
    One thing i noticed with SL though, is that it wakes from standby really fast.
    That usually happens instantly on modern computers.
    05-10-2017 07:07 AM
  23. Drael646464's Avatar
    That usually happens instantly on modern computers.
    I guess it depends on whether he meant "sleep" or "hibernate". Sleep resumes fast because it doesn't actually turn off, it just suspends the software. Hibernate still takes time, although its faster than it used to be.

    Seriously though, someone needs to test this. Get a windows s, and a pro device, and power them up from hibernation. Power them up cold, and autologin. Time it. Try some app loading times as well.

    I actually would like to see an antutu score for windows s versus pro too. If they have cut back on services or similar, it might impact gaming or browsing speeds.

    I guess we are waiting for someone to actually fully hands-on this stuff...
    05-10-2017 07:16 AM
  24. tgp's Avatar
    Seriously though, someone needs to test this. Get a windows s, and a pro device, and power them up from hibernation. Power them up cold, and autologin. Time it. Try some app loading times as well.
    That would be interesting.

    Our PC Sales & Repair department at work has been selling SSD retrofits for a couple years now, since SSD drives became low cost enough to be viable. They take a normal PC, replace the hard drive with an SSD, and install Windows fresh, without OEM bloat. Cold to logged in is usually 10 seconds for the fastest machines (that we sell anyway), and 15 for the slowest.

    The speed varies a bit, depending on the machines' other specs, such as CPU and RAM, but it is very quick. It was even faster with Windows 8/8.1. Windows 10 is slower, more like Windows 7.
    05-10-2017 08:02 AM
  25. SL2's Avatar
    I guess it depends on whether he meant "sleep" or "hibernate". Sleep resumes fast because it doesn't actually turn off, it just suspends the software. Hibernate still takes time, although its faster than it used to be.
    I dunno, I've never hard anyone say standby when they mean hibernate.
    Seriously though, someone needs to test this. Get a windows s, and a pro device, and power them up from hibernation. Power them up cold, and autologin. Time it. Try some app loading times as well.
    I fail to see why this is interesting, unless you're prepared to run 10 S just for the shorter load times. :)

    I know just as little about 10 S as most other people, but I don't expect it to be much different from the regular version in terms of load speed. The only reason is that if you upgrade to Pro, will it suddenly become slower? I find that hard to believe.

    "I upgraded my Surface Laptop to 10 Pro and now it's slower, thanks Microsoft!" - I think they want to avoid that kind of cuwstomer reviews..

    It may be snappier than some other laptops, but the reason is more likely that it's an all MS product rather that it's running 10S, better optimized drivers for instance. Purely speculating.
    05-11-2017 06:25 AM
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