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  1. x I'm tc's Avatar
    Let me get this out of the way, I personally am a huge fan of Metro.

    I suspect most people on this site are, too, or they wouldn't be here.

    But we are undeniably in the minority.

    We can argue all we want about how people who don't like it just don't get it but, at the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it is incredibly clear that the overwhelming opinion of Metro is extremely negative. Everything it it has touched has been a disaster.

    Windows Phone is, thus far, an almost total failure, stuck at rounding-error levels of the smartphone market and is nevertheless managing to lose share.
    Windows 8 has been a worse-than-Vista disaster, and is nevertheless managing to lose share.
    The XBone has been getting absolutely crushed by the PS4 since day one, and is nevertheless managing to lose share.

    The one thing they have in common? Metro.

    Amazingly, MS has bet the farm on Metro by spreading it everywhere. And they've left no way back for themselves by declaring Windows 10 their ultimate OS.

    Might Metro actually kill MS? I don't think it's impossible.
    10-03-2014 01:50 PM
  2. Nicholas Maguire's Avatar
    I don't think that it's because of Metro. At all. Windows Phone has low market share because of apps and bad marketing. Also that everyone is already on Android and iOS. Xbox One lost to PS4 because of all the DRM before it even came out. Windows 8's problem was that it went FULL SCREEN metro. I've already showed people my Windows 10 tech preview and they love the new start menu.
    10-03-2014 01:56 PM
  3. jmshub's Avatar
    I don't think it's easy enough to break down to one unlikable UI. There are a lot of other factors to it. For instance, in the game market, The Xbox was $100 more and available in significantly fewer markets than the PS4.

    In the PC market, it is many things. First, the market is shrinking as fewer people need traditional PCs when a tablet or smartphone will do, and some people who wanted a PC simply did not want the duality of the two separate UIs in Windows 8. Not to mention there is a group of people who silently use and even like Windows 8. I am one of them, I use a tablet and a non-touch laptop with Windows 8 and like it.

    Of the three, Windows Phone is the hardest to figure out for me. I think it is a fine operating system and certainly deserves more market share than it has gotten. And as I look at it, it appears me to be a lot of little things, but namely, it's lack of presence to many users. Smartphone buyers are coming from many places, and there are a lot of them without a technical background, and I think that they honestly in this day and age, still aren't aware of Windows Phone. They already have an iPhone, and they are going to get another. Or their son or niece or whatever tells them to get an Android phone so they do.
    Nicholas Maguire and luxnws like this.
    10-03-2014 02:06 PM
  4. Nicholas Maguire's Avatar
    The fact is, the majority of people already have iPhones and Androids. The people who hadn't gotten phones yet, were recommended to get an iPhone or Android by the people who already got them. Windows Phone WILL grow. I am sure of that. However, because of the masses using the other two OS's, it'll be a slow growth. I for one, have switched 10 or more people to Windows Phone in less than a year. People don't hate metro. Like I said, in Windows 8's case, it was the fact that it felt like two completely different operating systems in one. Windows 10 won't have that failure. On the Xbox, I'm pretty sure people like the metro.
    10-03-2014 02:21 PM
  5. x I'm tc's Avatar
    I don't think it's easy enough to break down to one unlikable UI. There are a lot of other factors to it. For instance, in the game market, The Xbox was $100 more and available in significantly fewer markets than the PS4.
    There is no market, to my knowledge, in which the Xbone is competitive even following the price cut. Not even the USA. It is getting crushed everywhere and neither availability nor price are the issue. It is the technologically inferior console (from a videogame perspective) and that may have something to do with it. Last gen, the PS3 was the more powerful console, but only in the right hands (i.e., Naughty Dog); in most cases, the Xbox held its own or produced superior graphics/frame-rates due to its simplicity and memory flexibility, so maybe that's it.

    In the PC market, it is many things. First, the market is shrinking as fewer people need traditional PCs when a tablet or smartphone will do, and some people who wanted a PC simply did not want the duality of the two separate UIs in Windows 8. Not to mention there is a group of people who silently use and even like Windows 8. I am one of them, I use a tablet and a non-touch laptop with Windows 8 and like it.
    The PC market is actually growing again. And that is even when you don't include the ThinkPad 10 or MS Surface and similar devices as PCs. If you include all those things as PCs, too (which you really should) then I think the market is actually doing just fine. But W8.x certainly isn't.

    Of the three, Windows Phone is the hardest to figure out for me. I think it is a fine operating system and certainly deserves more market share than it has gotten. And as I look at it, it appears me to be a lot of little things, but namely, it's lack of presence to many users. Smartphone buyers are coming from many places, and there are a lot of them without a technical background, and I think that they honestly in this day and age, still aren't aware of Windows Phone. They already have an iPhone, and they are going to get another. Or their son or niece or whatever tells them to get an Android phone so they do.
    For me this is actually the easiest. WP really isn't good compared to Android. It used to have some key advantages, notably running smoothly and stably and being not ugly, but Android has made tremendous improvements in those regards and now feels much "peppier" on the same or similar hardware, and it's done so while maintaining its healthy functionality advantages. I just don't think WP is particularly competitive, TBH. But the limitations of the RT environment that underpin Metro is a big reason for that: 3rd parties simply can't add important functionality or fix major oversights like than can on Android. Thus, Metro is, in a sense, a big part of the WP problem. The lack of usefullness of Metro apps on W8.x is similarly because MS forced developers to use the crippling RT APIs.
    10-03-2014 02:46 PM
  6. jmshub's Avatar
    The PC market is actually growing again. And that is even when you don't include the ThinkPad 10 or MS Surface and similar devices as PCs. If you include all those things as PCs, too (which you really should) then I think the market is actually doing just fine. But W8.x certainly isn't.
    But Microsoft isn't losing significant market share to Apple or Linux. Windows is still 90-91% of the market. So, 8 is losing market to 7, which is difficult (but admittedly not impossible) for consumers to buy. So, it is mostly enterprise keeping Windows 7 over switching to Win8. My company is one example, we have 450 PCs all running Windows 7, we aren't using Windows 8 at all. This isn't necessarily a failure of Windows 8, particularly metro is the eyes of a consumer.

    For me this is actually the easiest. WP really isn't good compared to Android. It used to have some key advantages, notably running smoothly and stably and being not ugly, but Android has made tremendous improvements in those regards and now feels much "peppier" on the same or similar hardware, and it's done so while maintaining its healthy functionality advantages. I just don't think WP is particularly competitive, TBH. But the limitations of the RT environment that underpin Metro is a big reason for that: 3rd parties simply can't add important functionality or fix major oversights like than can on Android. Thus, Metro is, in a sense, a big part of the WP problem. The lack of usefullness of Metro apps on W8.x is similarly because MS forced developers to use the crippling RT APIs.
    A lot of that is subjective. I'll grant you that I find Android to be much more palatable than it was even a year or two ago. But it isn't as good as it's massive worldwide market share suggests. Android gained it's position by a perfect storm of being the alternative smartphone platform to Apple when Apple was very exclusive (Verizon pushing Droid heavily before they would sell an iphone) and being free to install and free to modify when the smartphone market was really blossoming.
    10-03-2014 03:13 PM
  7. boltman2013's Avatar
    Personally Metro is AWESOME on Widows Phone and now that its TAMED on Windows 10 its awesome also. I found myself playing with the New start menu and just going all in with Metro. Instead of Start list or folders on desktop... I re-organized everything I needed to Metro on my Vaio...it is double wide now but amazing for my productivity. If they add in eventually the live folders of windows phone It'll be perfect.

    I think the soved the issue with Metro on Desktops/laptops with the latest UI changes.

    Also LOVE the new keybord shortcuts for snapping.... Win + Arrows makes it super easy to snap four windows.
    10-03-2014 05:18 PM
  8. x I'm tc's Avatar
    Personally Metro is AWESOME on Widows Phone and now that its TAMED on Windows 10 its awesome also. I found myself playing with the New start menu and just going all in with Metro. Instead of Start list or folders on desktop... I re-organized everything I needed to Metro on my Vaio...it is double wide now but amazing for my productivity. If they add in eventually the live folders of windows phone It'll be perfect.

    I think the soved the issue with Metro on Desktops/laptops with the latest UI changes.

    Also LOVE the new keybord shortcuts for snapping.... Win + Arrows makes it super easy to snap four windows.
    I really like metro. But as I said, we "likers" are in the minority. So far, everything that has run Metro has been a spectacular failure in the marketplace. The rest of the world (i.e., not WPCentral readers) hates Metro, rightly or wrongly. I rather think that, by keeping Metro alive and well in Windows 10, MS may be putting the nail in the Windows coffin. I am heartened by the rumors that say regular apps may be available in the store. Maybe MS is giving themselves an out, if they need it (and they may well!).
    10-06-2014 02:28 PM
  9. colinkiama's Avatar
    Lol it's more to do with people aren't using metro and people who are find it confusing. Windows 8 was terrible and that's what influenced people not to buy windows phones either. If windows 8 was good then it would be a different story. No one actually hates the interface on windows phones. It's just that windows 8 gave users such a bad experience. Basically if windows 10 is amazing. Windows phone sales will improve. Windows pc success = windows phone sales. That's why making operating systems with the same ui may not always be a good idea.
    10-06-2014 02:44 PM
  10. jmshub's Avatar
    I still think your basic thesis that Metro is poison is a flawed one. I'm sure there are people out there that absolutely hate Metro, but I don't think that is everyone who is not an enthusiast and Microsoft cheerleader.

    Ed Bott at ZDNet has an article called "Just how much do people hate Windows 8". Just looking at his chart of reviews from Amazon, 50% of Windows 8 reviewers are 4 or 5 stars (36% for five stars, 14% for 4 stars). The results aren't as positive overall as Windows 7, but much better than Vista. I just think that overall, Metro may be polarizing for some people, but not the complete shutdown for consumers that you do.
    Laura Knotek and a5cent like this.
    10-06-2014 02:47 PM
  11. colinkiama's Avatar
    I really like metro. But as I said, we "likers" are in the minority. So far, everything that has run Metro has been a spectacular failure in the marketplace. The rest of the world (i.e., not WPCentral readers) hates Metro, rightly or wrongly. I rather think that, by keeping Metro alive and well in Windows 10, MS may be putting the nail in the Windows coffin. I am heartened by the rumors that say regular apps may be available in the store. Maybe MS is giving themselves an out, if they need it (and they may well!).
    metro is still there in the preview. You can change to the default 8.1 start screen from the task bar properties. Metro is not dead. It's better then ever and is actually an option. If you unpin all tiles from the start menu, you will only have a menu left. Windows 8 was for touch only. Windows 10 is for everyone. Calm down, windows phone and RT will still exist. Metro will still exist. Look how after windows 8, EVERYONE is going flat. iOS, Android L, even websites on the Internet are now flat. All after windows 8.
    10-06-2014 02:51 PM
  12. T Moore's Avatar
    Your phone is metro without the desktop. Like my phone.
    10-06-2014 02:53 PM
  13. awilliams1701's Avatar
    Personally I love windows phone. I love windows 8.1 on my lenovo yoga 2, but I hate windows 8.x on everything else. Metro in its current form is best on touch screens and highly inefficient on desktops. Fortunately windows 10 fixes this.
    10-06-2014 03:58 PM
  14. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    it's because the metro look is ugly and sloppy looking.

    Win8 Desktop is doing terribly because of Metro. They have 2 separate screens which is the dumbest idea for desktop users. You should be able to mix programs and apps on 1 screen. Some tiles need to be interactive like widgets. All apps including inhouse (MSOFT) apps are all made for touch screen which is stupid as hell (I have a touch screen ultrabook, only one I have ever seen in public).

    Microsoft just played this whole metro thing stupidly, I know I will get my head torn off in these forums about it. It is what it is and the audience has spoken. It's just as bad as what Vista was or maybe worse. Win7 is much more productive (I have a computer with Win7 that has all the same stuff as my Win8.1 ultrabook)

    Apparently Win10 will be about integration which is awesome but It's very needed.
    Anxiously waiting on how MSOFT will implement the Notification Centre.
    But PLEASE let us have the option to put Metro apps on our desktop, move them where ever, let us resize to any size and make them interactive (depending on the app).
    I would love the option to get rid of the metro screen and charm bar.
    You would get my frustration with Charm bar if you have a Win8 laptop.

    Win desktop is like the BlackBerry of phone: they had everything but they just let it go. Yes, I'm a Win8.1 and BB10 user.

    This is coming from a ordinary consumer that is not a disillusioned WP8 fanboy. Don't worry, I was a disillusioned BB10 fanboy until I started looking at all the competition. I love Microsoft like Xbox, desktop and all. But they really need to fix their company of 120,000+ employees which bigger then anyone else in their field. They have so much potential but are half a**ing it like BlackBerry (6000 employees)
    Last edited by khehl; 10-07-2014 at 03:31 PM.
    10-07-2014 03:10 PM
  15. MysticForce's Avatar
    I think that people hate windows phone because of the metro design.
    When I was showing my Nokia Lumia to my friends, they loved camera and speed of the OS, but nobody likes a metro look. They say that metro looks disgusting.

    But I don't see that Microsoft will give up from metro design.
    10-08-2014 06:32 AM
  16. colinkiama's Avatar
    it's because the metro look is ugly and sloppy looking.

    Win8 Desktop is doing terribly because of Metro. They have 2 separate screens which is the dumbest idea for desktop users. You should be able to mix programs and apps on 1 screen. Some tiles need to be interactive like widgets. All apps including inhouse (MSOFT) apps are all made for touch screen which is stupid as hell (I have a touch screen ultrabook, only one I have ever seen in public).

    Microsoft just played this whole metro thing stupidly, I know I will get my head torn off in these forums about it. It is what it is and the audience has spoken. It's just as bad as what Vista was or maybe worse. Win7 is much more productive (I have a computer with Win7 that has all the same stuff as my Win8.1 ultrabook)

    Apparently Win10 will be about integration which is awesome but It's very needed.
    Anxiously waiting on how MSOFT will implement the Notification Centre.
    But PLEASE let us have the option to put Metro apps on our desktop, move them where ever, let us resize to any size and make them interactive (depending on the app).
    I would love the option to get rid of the metro screen and charm bar.
    You would get my frustration with Charm bar if you have a Win8 laptop.

    Win desktop is like the BlackBerry of phone: they had everything but they just let it go. Yes, I'm a Win8.1 and BB10 user.

    This is coming from a ordinary consumer that is not a disillusioned WP8 fanboy. Don't worry, I was a disillusioned BB10 fanboy until I started looking at all the competition. I love Microsoft like Xbox, desktop and all. But they really need to fix their company of 120,000+ employees which bigger then anyone else in their field. They have so much potential but are half a**ing it like BlackBerry (6000 employees)
    Lol Microsoft are doing all those things that you talked about inn windows 10 you should check out the stream on YouTube. But I'm not sure if they will implement the interactive tiles though. But it's very likely that they will since they didn't really talk about the phone or tablet interface much...
    10-09-2014 11:08 AM
  17. vlad0's Avatar
    It ain't going anywhere..



    simonas ksivickas and mikeycl like this.
    10-09-2014 12:14 PM
  18. ronaldme's Avatar
    Short answer: No
    Long answer: No way.
    10-09-2014 03:45 PM
  19. anon(5818411)'s Avatar
    Lol Microsoft are doing all those things that you talked about inn windows 10 you should check out the stream on YouTube. But I'm not sure if they will implement the interactive tiles though. But it's very likely that they will since they didn't really talk about the phone or tablet interface much...
    Instead of putting the tiles in the Start Menu you should also have the option to put them on your Desktop and Mix them up with Programs.
    10-17-2014 11:31 AM

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