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02-19-2015 08:16 AM
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  1. ajst222's Avatar
    I have been trying really hard to like Xbox Music. I force myself to use it because I want to be one of the eight people that support Microsoft and Xbox Music. But is it no Zune! Bring back Zune as a universal app!

    Is there an Xbox Music API? Maybe we should just write a Zune app using their APIs.
    As someone who's never used Zune, why do people like Zune over Xbox Music so much? I'm honestly really interested...what are the differences?
    01-25-2015 10:09 AM
  2. jwpear's Avatar
    There are a lot of people that had no business installing this Tech Preview.
    I'm probably misreading you, but it sounds as though you're suggesting they should only get feedback from desktop loving cheerleaders. This week's event and preview was billed as showing more of the consumer features. I jumped in with physical hardware this time--my Dell XPS 12 2-in-1--so that I could provide meaningful feedback about my experience with the preview. I have done that and will continue to experiment with it.

    Microsoft should get honest feedback about where they're going, even if it upsets some.
    a5cent, sahib lopez and CDanArt like this.
    01-25-2015 10:10 AM
  3. jwpear's Avatar
    Things that bug me about Xbox Music:
    1. It's harder to discover music.
    2. There are no song popularity rankings within an album, which would help some with music discovery.
    3. It duplicates playlists across devices.
    4. It duplicates songs in playlists.
    5. It drops songs from playlists.
    6. Songs go from being on device to only in the cloud collection.
    7. If you delete a song, it deletes everywhere, not just the device or playlist.

    It is so freaking frustrating that I'm about ready to give up on it.

    Keep in mind, I use Xbox Music on both Windows and Windows Phone. And I do have both a personal song collection and an Xbox Music pass.
    01-25-2015 10:21 AM
  4. TheCudder's Avatar
    I'm probably misreading you, but it sounds as though you're suggesting they should only get feedback from desktop loving cheerleaders. This week's event and preview was billed as showing more of the consumer features. I jumped in with physical hardware this time--my Dell XPS 12 2-in-1--so that I could provide meaningful feedback about my experience with the preview. I have done that and will continue to experiment with it.

    Microsoft should get honest feedback about where they're going, even if it upsets some.
    It's plain to see Microsoft hasn't worked much on the tablet side of things thus far. So calm down. Just look, Microsoft intentionally disabled the "Boot to start screen" option and the "Spartan" browser is not packaged yet --- this build is currently still focusing on the Desktop side of things. We're still far from seeing the completed product. And as someone already mentioned, I don't believe Microsoft gave us the latest build like they may have planned to --- haven't you noticed a lot of the screen shots shown at the event gave us a very different looking Windows 10? Spartan, translucent/areo start menu, WP styled "one color" tiles for the system apps.


    JamesDax likes this.
    01-25-2015 10:26 AM
  5. jdawgnoonan's Avatar
    I am also fearful of how the tablet functionality on my Surface Pro 3 might be impacted. I have the preview installed in Parallels on my Mac and I really hope that this is less desktop centric than it seems. I also agree that 8.1 is great on a tablet and I too no longer use my iPad and I gave my Note 10.1 2014 away as the experience on my Surface is far superior. Yes, the Surface is closer hardware wise to being a laptop, but I have an awesome laptop (15 Retina MBP) already, and I did not buy the Surface to use primarily as a laptop. Actually, I use it mainly as a tablet and as a desktop when docked. Hopefully tablet focused updates are still coming. Also, I hope that you can hide the taskbar in tablet mode and also that title bars are not there.
    01-25-2015 10:28 AM
  6. missionsparta's Avatar
    I am also fearful of how the tablet functionality on my Surface Pro 3 might be impacted. I have the preview installed in Parallels on my Mac and I really hope that this is less desktop centric than it seems. I also agree that 8.1 is great on a tablet and I too no longer use my iPad and I gave my Note 10.1 2014 away as the experience on my Surface is far superior. Yes, the Surface is closer hardware wise to being a laptop, but I have an awesome laptop (15 Retina MBP) already, and I did not buy the Surface to use primarily as a laptop. Actually, I use it mainly as a tablet and as a desktop when docked. Hopefully tablet focused updates are still coming. Also, I hope that you can hide the taskbar in tablet mode and also that title bars are not there.
    Yeah, for some reason the task bar in tablet seems to bothers me also. Should just make it an option and make everyone happy.
    01-25-2015 11:17 AM
  7. JamesDax's Avatar
    I hope everyone here are actually reporting their bugs and things they do and don't like to MS. That is the whole point of this tech preview.
    01-25-2015 11:21 AM
  8. GreenScrew's Avatar
    I agree completely, REALLY hoping Microsoft has lots of work left on the touch side. I too expected way more progress on touch. It might be enough that I won't need to uninstall like I did with the first preview (clearly meant only for desktop experience) but its not good and has a long ways to go....
    01-25-2015 11:42 AM
  9. missionsparta's Avatar
    I agree completely, REALLY hoping Microsoft has lots of work left on the touch side. I too expected way more progress on touch. It might be enough that I won't need to uninstall like I did with the first preview (clearly meant only for desktop experience) but its not good and has a long ways to go....
    So many people hung up on the un-needed start button, that they are praising this tossed together mess. 8.1 had a purpose. The direction 10 is headed, it seems they are just trying to make the loudest group ('I NEED A START BUTTON!') happy, at the cost of bastardizing the whole vision they originally had.
    CDanArt and Andrew Gordon like this.
    01-25-2015 12:14 PM
  10. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    To a better place and future.
    01-25-2015 01:45 PM
  11. JamesDax's Avatar
    To a better place and future.
    With less crying I hope.
    01-25-2015 02:30 PM
  12. missionsparta's Avatar
    With less crying I hope.
    Nope. The 'Start Button People' cried loud and long until they bastardized this thing.... I'm crying loud and long until they put this train back on the tracks.
    sahib lopez likes this.
    01-25-2015 03:54 PM
  13. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    Nope. The 'Start Button People' cried loud and long until they bastardized this thing.... I'm crying loud and long until they put this train back on the tracks.
    You're goin to be crying for a long time, then.
    01-25-2015 04:13 PM
  14. TheCudder's Avatar
    So many people hung up on the un-needed start button, that they are praising this tossed together mess. 8.1 had a purpose. The direction 10 is headed, it seems they are just trying to make the loudest group ('I NEED A START BUTTON!') happy, at the cost of bastardizing the whole vision they originally had.
    While you're not alone in feeling this way, you're part of the minority. With that being said, don't get stuck on the functionality of the current build as it's not final. I'm one of the many who wanted the start menu back, but I also realize it's current design is a step backwards compared to the Windows 8.1 start screen for touch devices. Instead of ranting, try to look at what Microsoft's goal is for Windows 10 (an OS that is friendly for mobile and desktop devices) and come up with an intuitive and innovative way to create and design a start menu and screen that will work for both user bases. And submit those ideas to Microsoft through the feedback app. Windows Central would be a great place for you you all to brain storm as a community, but the ranting and crying isn't going to help the quality of the final product.
    Last edited by TheCudder; 01-25-2015 at 08:30 PM.
    JamesDax likes this.
    01-25-2015 04:34 PM
  15. Tyler Swindell's Avatar
    I definitely gave feedback to Microsoft that the tablet experience looks and sounds terrible. I have a Surface 2 but from seeing it running on the tablets, I feel like the tablet experience is turning really bad. The taskbar should not have a start button when a physical hardware key is present, it also should ditch the notification area and place the time in the top right hand corner of the screen. The action center should be swiped in. And Cortana could be moved to the right hand of the taskbar, to make room for the apps. The taskbar should only be visible on the Continuum start screen, and when swiped in.


    Now back to desktops, that experience is utter crap lol. First of all I loved the Longhorn vision for WPF applications and WinRT obviously builds on that for phones and tablets, but now with desktops, the UI elements need A LOT of work...The settings app looks huge. That new date/time display that was hidden in 9926 looks huge, it takes up half the height of the display. The universal apps in general are too huge and this knocks productivity and usability with having to maximize all the windows because they are too oversized to be in small windows or even medium sized windows. They should only be that big once you switch to tablet mode. And I'm on a 1080p monitor, which is the norm.
    Andrew Gordon likes this.
    01-25-2015 09:22 PM
  16. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    I definitely gave feedback to Microsoft that the tablet experience looks and sounds terrible. I have a Surface 2 but from seeing it running on the tablets, I feel like the tablet experience is turning really bad. The taskbar should not have a start button when a physical hardware key is present, it also should ditch the notification area and place the time in the top right hand corner of the screen. The action center should be swiped in. And Cortana could be moved to the right hand of the taskbar, to make room for the apps. The taskbar should only be visible on the Continuum start screen, and when swiped in.


    Now back to desktops, that experience is utter crap lol. First of all I loved the Longhorn vision for WPF applications and WinRT obviously builds on that for phones and tablets, but now with desktops, the UI elements need A LOT of work...The settings app looks huge. That new date/time display that was hidden in 9926 looks huge, it takes up half the height of the display. The universal apps in general are too huge and this knocks productivity and usability with having to maximize all the windows because they are too oversized to be in small windows or even medium sized windows. They should only be that big once you switch to tablet mode. And I'm on a 1080p monitor, which is the norm.
    ​Didn't Microsoft do some telematics thing for Windows 8 that showed the most common resolution is 1366x768?
    01-26-2015 02:19 AM
  17. StudentoflifeUSMC's Avatar
    The problem with your statement is that those people who want their start menu back - are the people who keep Microsoft in business.

    They're the multinational companies who buy 10s of thousands of copies at a time. Or universities. Or the government. They don't want to waste employee productivity and profits retraining their employees on how to function with Windows 8.

    Coincidentally, a lot of the decision-making people in those companies are ALSO the shareholders in Microsoft. So they're getting double the vote. One for "we're not going to upgrade if you don't give us what we want." and two for "We're going to dump our shares if you don't give us the profits that we want by giving the other major stakeholders in the company.

    A lot of you seem to forget, that Microsoft wasn't built to satisfy consumers. It's bread and butter is professional products to companies and large entities. That's the mentality that's kept them alive throughout the decades, and as one of those shareholders (albeit a VERY small one) I don't see them moving away from it.

    Consumers are fickle. They like trends. But businesses like reliability. And it's big businesses that keep Microsoft IN business.
    01-26-2015 12:31 PM
  18. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Yeah, for some reason the task bar in tablet seems to bothers me also. Should just make it an option and make everyone happy.
    Have you tried the "Auto hide the taskbar" option?
    01-26-2015 12:59 PM
  19. missionsparta's Avatar
    And there is the official ' we've dropped the ball again' moment from Microsoft.

    http://www.windowscentral.com/8-inch...l-have-desktop app link: wpcentral:show?article=8-inch-and-larger-windows-10-tablets-only-will-have-desktop
    01-26-2015 05:40 PM
  20. JamesDax's Avatar
    And there is the official ' we've dropped the ball again' moment from Microsoft.

    8-inch and larger Windows 10 tablets only will have the desktop | Windows Central app link: wpcentral:show?article=8-inch-and-larger-windows-10-tablets-only-will-have-desktop
    They didn't drop the ball. They were quite clear. Just there are a lot stupid people running around and they need to repeat themselves for them.
    rhapdog likes this.
    01-26-2015 06:16 PM
  21. JamesDax's Avatar
    I'm probably misreading you, but it sounds as though you're suggesting they should only get feedback from desktop loving cheerleaders. This week's event and preview was billed as showing more of the consumer features. I jumped in with physical hardware this time--my Dell XPS 12 2-in-1--so that I could provide meaningful feedback about my experience with the preview. I have done that and will continue to experiment with it.

    Microsoft should get honest feedback about where they're going, even if it upsets some.
    Yes they should. I agree. So give the feedback and stop crying on the forums.
    rhapdog likes this.
    01-26-2015 06:16 PM
  22. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    And there is the official ' we've dropped the ball again' moment from Microsoft.

    8-inch and larger Windows 10 tablets only will have the desktop | Windows Central app link: wpcentral:show?article=8-inch-and-larger-windows-10-tablets-only-will-have-desktop
    ​How is a good policy them dropping th ball?
    01-26-2015 06:57 PM
  23. John Steffes's Avatar
    Ok here is what I do not get, the Windows RT (Windows on Arm)….
    A lot of people say it can’t run Windows x86 apps, well it could if Microsoft built in an emulator (like the jail broken Win RT 8 with WINE).
    A lot of people say the Desktop is dump, get rid of it….
    A lot of people say Touch is dumb I want the Start Menu and Desktop Mouse and Keyboard back…

    Ok, perfect vision:

    If Windows 10 had two modes Tablet mode and Non-Tablet mode:
    Tablet mode, acted just like Windows 8.1 Start Screen/No Start Menu, Live Tiles Full, Charms Bar, all apps full screen, no Desktop mode, etc….
    Non-Tablet mode, acted just like Windows 7 SP1, Start Menu, no live tiles, no Charms Bar, Desktop mode, no full screen apps all Windowed…

    Now here's where the perfect part comes in, all settings configurable, so someone can create a hybrid Tablet mode, which does what they want it to do, maybe a start menu in tablet mode, maybe live tiles in Non-Tablet mode…

    Why can't we have x86 apps emulated on the Phones, Tablets, etc.. virtualization is all around us...

    Why can't we have a small Phone when connected to a big screen TV, run a full Desktop?

    It is not like the Phones of today are not powerful enough, they run circles around my Commodore 64...

    What we have now (yes it is preview), is nothing like this, the new Start Menu, is ruff, not usable, I do not want my apps in the Start Menu in an ABC order, who thought that up, how about folders, preview/recent list, come on… This is not where I thought they were going to go…

    I have several Non-Tablets, and several 2-1 Tablets (Surfaces), I hope Microsoft does listen to insider feedback, as I have left a mouth full….

    I do not know much about XBOX Music or Zune, but something needs to be done Windows Media Player in Windows 3.1 is better…
    01-26-2015 08:19 PM
  24. missionsparta's Avatar
    Ok here is what I do not get, the Windows RT (Windows on Arm).
    A lot of people say it cant run Windows x86 apps, well it could if Microsoft built in an emulator (like the jail broken Win RT 8 with WINE).
    A lot of people say the Desktop is dump, get rid of it.
    A lot of people say Touch is dumb I want the Start Menu and Desktop Mouse and Keyboard back

    Ok, perfect vision:

    If Windows 10 had two modes Tablet mode and Non-Tablet mode:
    Tablet mode, acted just like Windows 8.1 Start Screen/No Start Menu, Live Tiles Full, Charms Bar, all apps full screen, no Desktop mode, etc.
    Non-Tablet mode, acted just like Windows 7 SP1, Start Menu, no live tiles, no Charms Bar, Desktop mode, no full screen apps all Windowed

    Now here's where the perfect part comes in, all settings configurable, so someone can create a hybrid Tablet mode, which does what they want it to do, maybe a start menu in tablet mode, maybe live tiles in Non-Tablet mode

    Why can't we have x86 apps emulated on the Phones, Tablets, etc.. virtualization is all around us...

    Why can't we have a small Phone when connected to a big screen TV, run a full Desktop?

    It is not like the Phones of today are not powerful enough, they run circles around my Commodore 64...

    What we have now (yes it is preview), is nothing like this, the new Start Menu, is ruff, not usable, I do not want my apps in the Start Menu in an ABC order, who thought that up, how about folders, preview/recent list, come on This is not where I thought they were going to go

    I have several Non-Tablets, and several 2-1 Tablets (Surfaces), I hope Microsoft does listen to insider feedback, as I have left a mouth full.

    I do not know much about XBOX Music or Zune, but something needs to be done Windows Media Player in Windows 3.1 is better

    This is exactly how it should be, but the Start Button people will cry if it is even an option. Same as the non-RT people cry about RT. Neither will use it or have to use it, but will cry the blues until both are killed off even though it doesn't affect them at all.
    01-26-2015 08:37 PM
  25. ajst222's Avatar
    Ok here is what I do not get, the Windows RT (Windows on Arm).
    A lot of people say it cant run Windows x86 apps, well it could if Microsoft built in an emulator (like the jail broken Win RT 8 with WINE).
    A lot of people say the Desktop is dump, get rid of it.
    A lot of people say Touch is dumb I want the Start Menu and Desktop Mouse and Keyboard back

    Ok, perfect vision:

    If Windows 10 had two modes Tablet mode and Non-Tablet mode:
    Tablet mode, acted just like Windows 8.1 Start Screen/No Start Menu, Live Tiles Full, Charms Bar, all apps full screen, no Desktop mode, etc.
    Non-Tablet mode, acted just like Windows 7 SP1, Start Menu, no live tiles, no Charms Bar, Desktop mode, no full screen apps all Windowed

    Now here's where the perfect part comes in, all settings configurable, so someone can create a hybrid Tablet mode, which does what they want it to do, maybe a start menu in tablet mode, maybe live tiles in Non-Tablet mode

    Why can't we have x86 apps emulated on the Phones, Tablets, etc.. virtualization is all around us...

    Why can't we have a small Phone when connected to a big screen TV, run a full Desktop?

    It is not like the Phones of today are not powerful enough, they run circles around my Commodore 64...

    What we have now (yes it is preview), is nothing like this, the new Start Menu, is ruff, not usable, I do not want my apps in the Start Menu in an ABC order, who thought that up, how about folders, preview/recent list, come on This is not where I thought they were going to go

    I have several Non-Tablets, and several 2-1 Tablets (Surfaces), I hope Microsoft does listen to insider feedback, as I have left a mouth full.

    I do not know much about XBOX Music or Zune, but something needs to be done Windows Media Player in Windows 3.1 is better

    That sounds far too complicated and there's way too much going on. That's not what most consumers want. They don't want to d!ck around with their machine. They just want it to work. And Windows 10 addresses that while still making folks happy.

    I think it's fair to say that we will see even more development on the touch side of things.
    01-26-2015 10:44 PM
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