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02-25-2015 10:23 PM
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  1. paulxxwall's Avatar
    What if they didn't?
    Then things will be perfect but lets be honest that may not happen. W8 was made to attract developers,it wasn't made not to. How about w8.1 that also was redesigned to attract developers but barely did. there was nothing about ms past vision that included not attracting devs.....but were stuck at 3%. So now we have w10 let me guess its supposed to attract devs right? Just like w8 and w8.1 was right?
    This ones "better". many were here singing the same tune when w8 was introduced too. I guess its how it is . If w10 doesn't work out its ok...." W11 will save WP"......no no 12 will be the one devs will run to ...smh
    02-11-2015 10:02 PM
  2. wpcontinue's Avatar
    Windows is doomed
    02-12-2015 02:56 AM
  3. JamesDax's Avatar
    Gotta love the doom & gloom folk. lol
    02-12-2015 08:10 AM
  4. paulxxwall's Avatar
    Gotta love the doom & gloom folk. lol
    And there only exclusive here on wincentral!!
    02-13-2015 12:23 PM
  5. TechAbstract's Avatar
    Biggest thing Microsoft needs is support from the OEMs (Samsung, HTC, LG...) If not they need to release more phones and no exclusive phones.
    02-17-2015 07:44 PM
  6. TheCudder's Avatar
    Biggest thing Microsoft needs is support from the OEMs (Samsung, HTC, LG...) If not they need to release more phones and no exclusive phones.
    I really don't think additional phones from other OEM's will do any good for Windows phones, it'll only create more fragmentation. HTC and Samsung have no reason to show any interest in Windows phones at this point --- and I don't blame them. The only thing that will help is better software, at the OS level and app level.
    a5cent likes this.
    02-18-2015 07:35 AM
  7. TechAbstract's Avatar
    I really don't think additional phones from other OEM's will do any good for Windows phones, it'll only create more fragmentation. HTC and Samsung have no reason to show any interest in Windows phones at this point --- and I don't blame them. The only thing that will help is better software, at the OS level and app level.
    Fragmentation with what? Like on PCs where Windows dominates? It's hard to gain big market share without the OEMs. You need to have devices out there for people to buy from low end to high end on every carrier.
    02-18-2015 02:42 PM
  8. TheCudder's Avatar
    Fragmentation with what? Like on PCs where Windows dominates? It's hard to gain big market share without the OEMs. You need to have devices out there for people to buy from low end to high end on every carrier.
    Fragmentation as in some phones not ever getting updates (See: Lumia 810, HTC 8S) --- due to OEM's not supporting updates, carriers not supporting and/or blocking updates.

    More phones existing isn't going to persuade anyone to buy a Windows phone, it's just a terrible investment for other OEM's. Microsoft (Nokia) provides the best WP experience IMO anyway. HTC & Samsung only gives us Galaxy & HTC One versions...which no one who isn't already using Windows Phone is asking or looking for.
    02-18-2015 04:28 PM
  9. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ I agree with TheCudder, at least as far as the US and Europe are concerned.

    The only benefit would be if these OEMs financed their own world wide marketing campaigns, thereby helping to promote WP. They don't do that. In fact, more often then not, devices are developed only if MS agrees to pay for their marketing. IMHO those marketing dollars would be better spent promoting WP as an OS, rather than a particular OEM's device.

    I don't know where the idea comes from that higher supply generates demand. No market has ever worked that way. WP doesn't need more supply. It needs more demand.
    02-18-2015 04:53 PM
  10. alexander0311's Avatar
    one point, regarding development, is clear. one core for the app, coded one single time, then, design customizations for each OS variation (+ MAYBE specific additions, like phone dialer for phone OS).
    a second point is regarding deployment. i dont believe that every developer or studio will be amazed and app will start to "rain" in our stores. there will, almost surely, be 3 situations:
    1st, developers who have their wp app and always wanted to build a windows app will be more encouraged now, so they will maybe build it. but here is also a catch. i think more apps will come from phone to desktop, bacause of the same os running on tablets.(maybe vice versa too, from desktops to phones, but still because of tablets)
    2nd, one app may be mainly for phone or pc, so even the small, but still needed, tweaks to convert it to universal and deploy it on all stores will be too much of a resource consume,at least in a first w10 era, given the small possible users increase from the other os variation. here is also a catch too: some apps from this category will come universal over time. one day, after several updates, they will see their app so close to universal so that those customizations for mutiple store deploys would be insignificat so they wont see it a lose from a the resource consumed/new users aquired perspective. (also, in this category are the apps which will continue for a period to run multiple apps, each for their store, too)
    3rd, some apps will never be available for every device, even after some big time when they will eventually already had enough updates to the code so they would be almost universal. some apps are for phones and some for pc, period. not all of the apps need to run on every single device. maybe tablets will do something on this category too, but still, there for sure will be one day when some app will be universal at their core but unpublished for every device type.

    sorry vor typos and bad english :)
    02-18-2015 05:27 PM
  11. TechAbstract's Avatar
    Fragmentation as in some phones not ever getting updates (See: Lumia 810, HTC 8S) --- due to OEM's not supporting updates, carriers not supporting and/or blocking updates.

    More phones existing isn't going to persuade anyone to buy a Windows phone, it's just a terrible investment for other OEM's. Microsoft (Nokia) provides the best WP experience IMO anyway. HTC & Samsung only gives us Galaxy & HTC One versions...which no one who isn't already using Windows Phone is asking or looking for.
    Like I said they need support from the OEMs. Currently, the OEMs don't advertise Windows Phone, they only promote Android phones. That is the issue Microsoft has to fix. If no one is promoting Windows Phone then it won't grow in market share.
    02-19-2015 10:27 PM
  12. ajayden's Avatar
    Like I said they need support from the OEMs. Currently, the OEMs don't advertise Windows Phone, they only promote Android phones. That is the issue Microsoft has to fix. If no one is promoting Windows Phone then it won't grow in market share.
    Lumia Phones are the fore front devices for Windows Mobile.
    Surface Pro is the fore front device for Windows
    Xbox One is the fore front device for Windows Gaming Family.

    Moving forward, I feel Lumia, Surface and Xbox running Windows 10 and future upgrades will hold the key for further success. This completes the One Windows Family.

    As for the OEMs, they have been promoting android, and the right strategy would be to have Microsoft services on these OEM phones or devices.

    So the strategy would be right to promote Microsoft devices for Phones, Computers/Tablet and Microsoft services on the OEMs.
    TechAbstract likes this.
    02-20-2015 05:23 AM
  13. TheCudder's Avatar
    Like I said they need support from the OEMs. Currently, the OEMs don't advertise Windows Phone, they only promote Android phones. That is the issue Microsoft has to fix. If no one is promoting Windows Phone then it won't grow in market share.
    I find it amazing that you think the reason WP is stuck at 3% market because OEM's don't advertise it or market it. No marketing push, no matter how big is going to boost Windows phone market share until the app situation truly becomes less of an issue. Because as it s stands, it's still a significant one -- users aren't exactly looking forward to a lack luster Instagram BETA app, next to no mobile banking apps & a YouTube app called "myTube" or "MetroTube".

    That being said, do you really expect Samsung and HTC to push WP at the moment? They're not going to invest big into a struggling OS that stands to do no real good for them. This is why they only ship WP on recycled hardware --- Galaxy S & One hardware. There is no money in WP because the software is holding it back. Microsoft has to figure out a way to fix that before it gets any hardware partner support. Do you really think Dell, HP & Lenovo would bother shipping & marketing multiple Windows based PC's if just 3% of the market was interested?
    02-20-2015 11:13 AM
  14. TechAbstract's Avatar
    Basically it comes down to Microsoft. We all should blame Microsoft for doing such a poor job on promoting Windows Phone and holding back the OS. Microsoft has to do whatever it takes for the OEMs to jump on board.
    02-20-2015 04:52 PM
  15. a5cent's Avatar
    Basically it comes down to Microsoft. We all should blame Microsoft for doing such a poor job on promoting Windows Phone and holding back the OS. Microsoft has to do whatever it takes for the OEMs to jump on board.
    There is only one thing MS can do. Achieve a larger market share. That must come first, then the OEMs will come too. The other way around will never work. If OEMs are motivated only by the opportunity to cache a check from MS, rather than by the opportunity to grab a larger chunk of the WP market, then they might as well not be participating in the WP ecosystem at all. It won't make a difference.
    mary beth hale likes this.
    02-20-2015 06:08 PM
  16. TechAbstract's Avatar
    How do you know it won't work other way around? Android is similar to Windows on PC. Google and Microsoft release the OS, the OEMs do their job of selling and promoting their hardware. Lumia 520/521 and Lumia 635 sell decently not because they lack apps or anything else but because they are cheap and available on more carriers. Microsoft will have to get more phones out to the carriers if they want to gain market share either by releasing those phones themselves or with the help of the OEMs. Almost all new phones coming out are Android with so much options to choose from for the consumers. Not so much for Windows Phone users. Microsoft will have to promote the platform better if no OEM is doing it.
    02-21-2015 02:31 AM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    How do you know it won't work other way around?
    Because history has proven over a dozen times that a centrally managed/controlled economy never works. In your example you can replace MS with any eastern European country, the USSR, or a dozen other failed communist states that tried to control their economy and have it successfully compete with capitalism. That is doomed to fail.
    Is it not obvious that such OEMs would never view it as their goal to sell WP devices? Their actual goal would be to exert the least amount of effort possible while still being able to cash MS' (in case of communism the government's) check! That is what any such effort would be about.
    Given that these same OEMs would simultaneously be competing tooth&nail with each other over a larger chunk of the Android pie, people just won't be stupid enough to not notice where those companies are truly invested.
    This not theoretical. The WP ecosystem already perfectly demonstrates this, or why do you think HTC and Samsung don't do very well in the WP space? You're asking/hoping for that same ineffective model to be effective in an even more competitive Android space. It's a pipedream. As long as there are alternatives, the markets will reject those devices in the same way HTC and Samsung devices are largely ignored.
    Governments couldn't do it. Neither can corporations. Neither can MS. It always fails. It never works. It's just not possible to force companies to effectively compete and innovate over scraps that are not worth competing over.
    The only reason some Indian brands are trying WP is because MS is allowing them to slap a case and their branding on a reference hardware design, with a free OS, and also promising freedom from IP licensing costs. If those OEMs had to design the phone themselves none of them would be releasing WP devices. That won't win against Android where devices are designed and built to compete and stand out.
    Economics 101. Demand must come first. Only then will a competitive and viable supply chain follow.
    02-21-2015 07:47 AM
  18. TechAbstract's Avatar
    Economics 101. Demand must come first. Only then will a competitive and viable supply chain follow.
    There is no demand if no one is promoting Windows Phone.
    paulxxwall likes this.
    02-24-2015 12:28 AM
  19. grantpwarren's Avatar
    What is Microsoft planning to do with non-universal apps, maybe wipe apps off if developers don't comply to be universal?
    02-24-2015 12:49 AM
  20. a5cent's Avatar
    There is no demand if no one is promoting Windows Phone.
    And like I said, no OEM besides MS promotes them. Either MS pays for HTC's or Samsung's WP marketing, or they aren't marketed at all.

    Without special deals, those phones are not even built. I can only repeat myself, by saying those phones are not built to sell phones in large numbers. Those devices are built to get special deals from MS. Based on low sales expectations, no OEM is willing to spend large on marketing that they figure has no chance of being recouped through device sales.
    If the assumption of more OEMs = more advertising dollars for WP were true, then I'd agree. It's not. Never was, and won't be anytime soon.

    Remove that misconception, and it becomes hard to explain exactly what benefit HTC, Samsung, etc bring to the table. They are not even competitive in the WP space. There is zero reason to believe they will succeed at selling WP devices to Android and iOS shoppers, when they can barely sell their WP devices to WP fans.
    Last edited by a5cent; 02-24-2015 at 02:33 AM.
    02-24-2015 02:21 AM
  21. a5cent's Avatar
    What is Microsoft planning to do with non-universal apps, maybe wipe apps off if developers don't comply to be universal?
    Absolutely not. MS is not planning to do anything with them. Non-universal apps will continue to run as they always have.
    Developers will also remain free to create new apps that employ the same universal-app technologies, but run only on one or the other form factor.
    02-24-2015 02:28 AM
  22. grantpwarren's Avatar
    Absolutely not. MS is not planning to do anything with them. Non-universal apps will continue to run as they always have.
    Developers will also remain free to create new apps that employ the same universal-app technologies, but run only on one or the other form factor.
    Ah right okay. Shame about some good apps that are probably not going universal then.
    02-24-2015 03:17 AM
  23. ajayden's Avatar
    Below is the theory behind the push for universal apps :

    Currently Microsoft has bigger market share in the PC/Tablet industry. Mobile is at 2% plus.

    Developers on either platform (PC/Tablet or Mobile) do not need to develop the code again.

    So, a mobile developer whose app does not have much exposure on mobile platform can use the same code (with minor changes) and release the same app in the PC/Tablet platform.

    This will get the developers interested in developing for both the platforms.
    02-25-2015 10:23 PM
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