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02-11-2015 01:44 PM
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  1. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Following what rhapdog said; here is a publication from Infoworld: Microsoft backs Java for cross-platform mobile apps Microsoft backs Java for cross-platform mobile apps | InfoWorld
    Developers can write in their favorite Java IDE, and JUniversal will translate it to the appropriate language for the platform
    realwarder likes this.
    02-09-2015 08:54 AM
  2. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Development of consumer apps in Desktop PCs has been dead since 10 years ago. The web browser is the platform in the PC, and Google already dominates with their services. They don't need apps, in fact Chrome OS is just a web browser.

    If Microsoft sells 100 million Windows 10 devices that are used primarily as tablets, that would make a difference, but It's highly unlikely. Surface 3 must be the bestseller Windows "tablet" but It's more commonly used as a laptop.
    Windows 10 is a Desktop OS adapted for the tablet form factor. Windows 8 was a tablet OS adapted for the Desktop and It failed, because nobody wants a Windows tablet.
    Again this is another area where MS was late to enter but comparing yr to yr W8 tablets have grown. Tablets growth is declining overall there are many factors as: people don't feel the need to get a new tablet because most of the tablets are the same coming from Android, Apple or MS.. What has change is the software. And I am sorry to say this but W8 tablet weren't ready for prime time MS put all this together in really short time without testing the software. That is why we have W8 RT and W8, that were awful when released.

    I do agree the web is very important to MS and that is why the are building a new browser 'Spartan' that is supposedly support Chrome extensions.
    02-09-2015 09:09 AM
  3. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    I find that documentation is the leading factor to whether I use a certain dev tool. Currently when working with eclipse I love the built in javadoc feature. Visual studio has intelisense with C# and etc, but eclipse senses a lot of this stuff too with Java, I just don't know the name they give this feature in eclipse. I like msdn's documentation, but I wish it were built in more with visual studio, rather than me getting errors and having to go "Bing search" it..., also I don't want to code in VB so msdn needs to provide more examples of C# and C++ in msdn, but at least msdn gives examples, Javadoc doesn't give coding examples. So this makes me think that devs may feel like it is easier to develop for iOS or Android due to the massive library of help by other users on third party websites such as tutorials and forums that they can easily get to by doing a "google search".
    Microsoft backs Java for cross-platform mobile apps | InfoWorld
    02-09-2015 09:11 AM
  4. dkediger's Avatar
    I truly think that while Google may justify ignoring WP/Modern/Store apps based on market share, Google has actually institutionalized Eric Schmidt's animosity towards Microsoft based in his failings at Novell. Misdirected as they are; they were mostly his mismanagement and not any nefarious doing of Microsoft. Windows 10 won't change that....
    Last edited by dkediger; 02-09-2015 at 09:59 AM.
    a5cent likes this.
    02-09-2015 09:25 AM
  5. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    One more thing: I do not believe Google's cash-cow search will keep its dominance 5 yrs from now. I know Google is untouchable right now but history has shown nobody is safe from competition specially in the tech word. Stiff competition from other search engines specially Bing and Yahoo will take lots of that power from Google making hard for them to keep those freebies to bring down competition. The only continent Google did not lose search users was Europe.
    02-09-2015 09:37 AM
  6. rhapdog's Avatar
    Startpage and DuckDuckGo have drawn quite a few users away from Google, promising more privacy and no tracking what you do, with no records of where you've been, where you're going, or what you've searched for.

    Bing is the best search tool out there with the highest accuracy rating of them all, and always giving the most relevant results every time I've used it compared to anything else. Google is better recognized name, where people use the word "google" to actually mean "web search" using any search engine. I've seen people in office setting say, "Let me google that," and they turn around and do a DuckDuckGo search. Personally, I'd like to see the word removed from everyday speech like that.

    Instead of having a "Let Me Google That for You", we need to have a "Bing it on, Baby!"

    This is the whole reason Microsoft invested into Cyanogen Mod, was to help wrestle control of Android away from Google and make Google less relevant. The less relevant Google is, the better for Microsoft. If Cyanogen Mod is successful with just this one thing, then it really won't matter if Google rethinks its approach towards MSFT or not, because Google will begin to fade into the background, just a bit at first, but bit-by-bit it will begin to fade. As big as they are, it will take years, but within 7 they will be struggling. First, wrestle Android away from Google. Without Google being the big power behind it, there will be 20 manufacturers all trying to make it their own, and suddenly you will have 20 flavors of Android that aren't cohesive. Apple will take over the major market share at first, with Windows 10 bringing up MSFT close behind. Eventually, given the number of failed ventures Google has undertaken (Google Glass, Google +, etc.) Google itself will eventually become just one, big, failed venture. Why? Because they keep acting like a kid in a candy store that wants to spend their entire allowance on frivolous stuff. Drones? Google Goggles? Google Glass? All wasted capital that should have been invested elsewhere.
    portalfocus likes this.
    02-09-2015 09:59 AM
  7. dkediger's Avatar
    Firefox changed their built in search to Yahoo away from Google; there have been some reports that just that move made a 10% search market share for Google in the US.

    Edit - Actually 20% according to fool.com, although most analysts expect a good portion of that percentage to return to Google as users reset to their preferred search.

    http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...ith-searc.aspx
    Last edited by dkediger; 02-09-2015 at 10:25 AM.
    Jorge Holguin and portalfocus like this.
    02-09-2015 10:14 AM
  8. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Apple and Google contract is ending this year, MS and Yahoo are lobbying tirelessly to become the default search provider for Apple. Many are speculating that Bing has a big shot to get it because Siri uses Bing engine. So as you can see Google has made lots of enemy; they'd become what they denounced and made them so popular.
    02-09-2015 10:24 AM
  9. troylytle's Avatar
    Apple and Google contract is ending this year, MS and Yahoo are lobbying tirelessly to become the default search provider for Apple. Many are speculating that Bing has a big shot to get it because Siri uses Bing engine. So as you can see Google has made lots of enemy; they'd become what they denounced and made them so popular.
    Both are Bing.
    jlzimmerman and portalfocus like this.
    02-09-2015 10:29 AM
  10. I3unny's Avatar
    Which site of google do you guys use more other than YouTube?
    02-09-2015 10:31 AM
  11. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    Both are Bing.
    Yes I know, but Yahoo is looking for all the way to end its contract with MS. Let's remember Marissa is a Google girl so she is not trill with MS and Yahoo relationship.
    02-09-2015 10:32 AM
  12. rhapdog's Avatar
    The only thing I use on Google is YouTube, but only because it's the only place I can subscribe to watch Microsoft videos and stuff. Seriously, MSFT needs to make their own competition for YouTube.
    portalfocus likes this.
    02-09-2015 10:48 AM
  13. Jorge Holguin's Avatar
    The only thing I use on Google is YouTube, but only because it's the only place I can subscribe to watch Microsoft videos and stuff. Seriously, MSFT needs to make their own competition for YouTube.
    I prefer is they buy Vimeo.
    jlzimmerman likes this.
    02-09-2015 10:50 AM
  14. dkediger's Avatar
    I prefer is they buy Vimeo.
    Yeah, this is something I'm surprised hadn't happened...
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    02-09-2015 10:56 AM
  15. dKp1977's Avatar
    Yeah, this is something I'm surprised hadn't happened...
    Vimeo is more about artistical stuff.. Not comparable to YouTube unfortunately. And even if Microsoft acquired it, still wouldn't change a thing about content. YouTube is flipping gigantic. It's literally everywhere.
    etad putta and Dk92 like this.
    02-09-2015 11:55 AM
  16. hagjohn's Avatar
    Well, so far we've seen nothing but screenshots. Even when the preview is released, it won't be what it WILL be later. The real game changing stuff is "write once, compile for anywhere" type of strategy, though.
    U can have universal apps now (phone and Windows. That's not game changing for 10.
    02-09-2015 11:55 AM
  17. troylytle's Avatar
    U can have universal apps now (phone and Windows. That's not game changing for 10.
    It's not about consumer side so much as shared code and time saving for developers.
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    02-09-2015 12:16 PM
  18. Mike Gibson's Avatar
    Microsoft is working on a SDK for it that will allow writing once, and compiling to all three, which will make porting between platforms a cinch. That will attract developers like fleas to a dog. Once they start writing their iOS and Android apps, and discover how easy it is to press a button and make one for WP, Windows Tablets, Windows PCs, XBox One, Surface Hub, and HoloLens, a great number of develpers will begin to do so.
    It definitely won't be as simple as "press a button and out pops Android/iOS/WinRT apps". You can't even do that now on WinRT/WinPRT for 8.1 (the so-called "Universal apps"). Just selecting a filename is drastically different and has app-wide ramifications due to the stupid "AndContinue" requirement for WinPRT81. You can imagine the problems with cross-platform work:

    1) There's the problem of the idiotic Async functionality in the core of both WinRT flavors. If you read Petzold's book for Xamarin you'll have notice how the idiotic Async functionality in WinRT metastasizes throughout his attempt to write once-run anywhere framework for Android/iOS/WinRT.

    2) No OpenGL ES support in WinRT/WinPRT. That kills games right there unless software library providers start including a D3D abstraction layer in their unified engines.

    3) VS2015 currently only supports NDK/C++ on Android. There's lots of talk but little action from MSFT on the cross-platform development in VS2015.
    02-09-2015 12:17 PM
  19. Elitis's Avatar
    You've obviously never seen and used any dev tools at all. Wow.
    Definitely not true about the dev tools. Visual Studio 2012+ is *far* superior to the iOS and Android tools.

    It's all about marketshare.
    Well, for one, I did say "apparently". That's just what other developers have been saying. Hence, the "apparently". I've used Eclipse (for Android app dev), VS, as well as Android Studio a bit, (and others, but I'll focus on these) and from my own experience, they are all just fine. Each has its purpose, so comparing them and saying one is "superior" than the other is ridiculous.

    Also, I think it's worth noting that although I said "dev tools", I'm including SDKs/APIs and their various features in that as well. For instance, there are things you can do in Silverlight apps that cannot be done otherwise. WinPRT (and WinRT) are not up to par with Silverlight, let alone iOS and Android. Their respective SDKs and APIs are simply better than WinRT at this point. There is no disputing that. Let's leave the fanboyism away from this discussion.
    02-09-2015 02:57 PM
  20. Witness's Avatar
    Very interesting points of views here. I offer my $0.02:

    Since their Glass has failed and Hololens is in the horizon, would Google want to do something with that? I mean, Google Earth on the Hololens could have a lot of potential as well as their StreetView. It would be nice to have those Gassholes on board, but part of me would like to see them miss the boat if MS products really take off with W10.
    Jorge Holguin likes this.
    02-09-2015 04:26 PM
  21. vEEP pEEP's Avatar
    Just my $0.02.

    I don't think MS wants Google Services on their platforms. People will default to MS services - like OneDrive, OneNote, Outlook mail, Bing, Bing maps etc.

    I don't think Google will change course much because of Windows10 - because they dominate the phone market. When WP gets more than 20% of market share, they might care.

    Mr. V
    02-09-2015 08:06 PM
  22. psudotechzealot's Avatar
    Apple is rumored to be create their own search engine. Also, I thought we did not need nor want Google apps besides youtube?
    Jorge Holguin and portalfocus like this.
    02-10-2015 06:36 AM
  23. envio's Avatar
    That Google have largely ignored Windows Phone since its birth is one thing but I do think it's confusing things to suggest that they have ignored Windows 8/8.1 or any other desktop Windows OS previous to it. We need to separate the two positions.

    On Windows Phone, the primary input is touch. Therefore, in order to best experience Google's services on WP and take advantage of the features of Windows Phone OS, a native app is more or less essential and Google is ignoring that right now. On Windows desktop, the primary input is a mouse and keyboard and there are enough choices in web browsers to get the best of all of Google's services without the need for a separate metro app. Yes, the growing use of touch-enabled Windows devices might be somewhat enhanced with a native Google app but it's not essential or necessary IMHO. Just look at Google's Chromebooks, the browser is the platform.
    02-10-2015 06:56 AM
  24. hyperthermia's Avatar
    i think google can create apps for win 10 for laptop and tablets then can opt to not create one for the phone component. i know its suppose to be universal but i think they just share the same code and additional work should be done for each screen. if google would go this way , then that would be a very clever and evil way to counter Microsoft's universal apps.
    02-10-2015 06:58 AM
  25. typhon62_1's Avatar
    That attitude can be really dangerous for Google. And i don't believe Google will ignore more than 100/200 million users just because they hate MS. Xbox has a YouTube app, why? Because, Google main business are ads. And judging by the good reviews of W10 and the one code [universal app] I believe WP adoption will be really good.
    Win8 has 100's of millions of users and Google is writing nothing for them. They will continue to ignore Win10 for some time.
    02-10-2015 07:15 AM
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