W10 will force Google to rethink its approach towards MS

[Mike Gibson]

Dev tools for Windows Store Apps are, apparently, still not up to par with Android and iOS. There's also the market share issue (which leads to higher potential revenue), and WinRT limitations.

Definitely not true about the dev tools. Visual Studio 2012+ is *far* superior to the iOS and Android tools.

It's all about marketshare.

 

[dKp1977]

Dev tools for Windows Store Apps are, apparently, still not up to par with Android and iOS. There's also the market share issue (which leads to higher potential revenue), and WinRT limitations.

You've obviously never seen and used any dev tools at all. Wow.

 

[portalfocus]

Actually, what was one of the first thing that came into my mind when watching the Windows 10 Technical Preview: The Next Chapter event. Google just cannot ignore Windows 10 and they know that pretty well. Google Chrome became something just because of the Window's users, otherwise it just would be outthere without anyone to even use it.

 

[3acres]

I find that documentation is the leading factor to whether I use a certain dev tool. Currently when working with eclipse I love the built in javadoc feature. Visual studio has intelisense with C# and etc, but eclipse senses a lot of this stuff too with Java, I just don't know the name they give this feature in eclipse. I like msdn's documentation, but I wish it were built in more with visual studio, rather than me getting errors and having to go "Bing search" it..., also I don't want to code in VB so msdn needs to provide more examples of C# and C++ in msdn, but at least msdn gives examples, Javadoc doesn't give coding examples. So this makes me think that devs may feel like it is easier to develop for iOS or Android due to the massive library of help by other users on third party websites such as tutorials and forums that they can easily get to by doing a "google search".

 

[rhapdog]

I see nothing, so far, in Windows Phone 10 that is a game changer.

Well, so far we've seen nothing but screenshots. Even when the preview is released, it won't be what it WILL be later. The real game changing stuff is "write once, compile for anywhere" type of strategy, though.

Definitely not true about the dev tools. Visual Studio 2012+ is *far* superior to the iOS and Android tools.

It's all about marketshare.

Yes, you are absolutely correct here. The issue with VS 2012+ is that it currently doesn't create apps for iOS and Android, so this brings up 2 problems.
1. You have to use ONE IDE to create for iOS and Android, then use a DIFFERENT IDE to create for WP. As a retired developer, I always wanted to do everything in one IDE. Remembering functionality quirks across different IDEs just makes you less efficient with both.
2. The marketshare does not currently make it worthwhile to deal with the pains of using different IDEs, and having to do a complete port to another OS where most of the code has to be re-written.

Microsoft will be releasing a new version of Visual Studio most likely by Summer. Once released, this version will write and compile for iOS and Android, as well as Windows 10 Universal Apps. While this will help developers that don't want to use multiple IDEs, there still remains the issue of having to port and change a lot of code from iOS/Android to Windows 10.

Microsoft is working on a SDK for it that will allow writing once, and compiling to all three, which will make porting between platforms a cinch. That will attract developers like fleas to a dog. Once they start writing their iOS and Android apps, and discover how easy it is to press a button and make one for WP, Windows Tablets, Windows PCs, XBox One, Surface Hub, and HoloLens, a great number of develpers will begin to do so.

Don't expect Google to develop anything for us, though. They think WP will fail without their services, but in the end, Google is going to hurt themselves with this approach.

The developers who will take longer to convince are the ones that are being "silently strong-armed by Apple and/or Google", where I personally believe that Apple and/or Google may be convincing businesses and developers not to develop for WP recently, because they are afraid of Windows 10. How do they convince? "If you make an app for WP, we'll pull your app from our store, and you'll lose the biggest market share of customers." Is this going on? I don't know, but I think with the way Chase has scolded employees for wanting to talk to customers about why the app was removed/cancelled, because it violated a non-disclosure agreement. I'll bet that agreement was with Google or Apple, because both are unscrupulous enough to try something like that, as illegal as it is. Do illegal things go on in business? If you believe it doesn't, then you're just naive. I'm not saying this happened, I'm just saying that in at least one parallel universe, it could have.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

Following what rhapdog said; here is a publication from Infoworld: Microsoft backs Java for cross-platform mobile apps Microsoft backs Java for cross-platform mobile apps | InfoWorld

Developers can write in their favorite Java IDE, and JUniversal will translate it to the appropriate language for the platform

 

[Jorge Holguin]

Development of consumer apps in Desktop PCs has been dead since 10 years ago. The web browser is the platform in the PC, and Google already dominates with their services. They don't need apps, in fact Chrome OS is just a web browser.

If Microsoft sells 100 million Windows 10 devices that are used primarily as tablets, that would make a difference, but It's highly unlikely. Surface 3 must be the bestseller Windows "tablet" but It's more commonly used as a laptop.
Windows 10 is a Desktop OS adapted for the tablet form factor. Windows 8 was a tablet OS adapted for the Desktop and It failed, because nobody wants a Windows tablet.

Again this is another area where MS was late to enter but comparing yr to yr W8 tablets have grown. Tablets growth is declining overall there are many factors as: people don't feel the need to get a new tablet because most of the tablets are the same coming from Android, Apple or MS.. What has change is the software. And I am sorry to say this but W8 tablet weren't ready for prime time MS put all this together in really short time without testing the software. That is why we have W8 RT and W8, that were awful when released.

I do agree the web is very important to MS and that is why the are building a new browser 'Spartan' that is supposedly support Chrome extensions.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

I find that documentation is the leading factor to whether I use a certain dev tool. Currently when working with eclipse I love the built in javadoc feature. Visual studio has intelisense with C# and etc, but eclipse senses a lot of this stuff too with Java, I just don't know the name they give this feature in eclipse. I like msdn's documentation, but I wish it were built in more with visual studio, rather than me getting errors and having to go "Bing search" it..., also I don't want to code in VB so msdn needs to provide more examples of C# and C++ in msdn, but at least msdn gives examples, Javadoc doesn't give coding examples. So this makes me think that devs may feel like it is easier to develop for iOS or Android due to the massive library of help by other users on third party websites such as tutorials and forums that they can easily get to by doing a "google search".

Microsoft backs Java for cross-platform mobile apps | InfoWorld

 

[dkediger]

I truly think that while Google may justify ignoring WP/Modern/Store apps based on market share, Google has actually institutionalized Eric Schmidt's animosity towards Microsoft based in his failings at Novell. Misdirected as they are; they were mostly his mismanagement and not any nefarious doing of Microsoft. Windows 10 won't change that....

 

[Jorge Holguin]

One more thing: I do not believe Google's cash-cow search will keep its dominance 5 yrs from now. I know Google is untouchable right now but history has shown nobody is safe from competition specially in the tech word. Stiff competition from other search engines specially Bing and Yahoo will take lots of that power from Google making hard for them to keep those freebies to bring down competition. The only continent Google did not lose search users was Europe.

 

[rhapdog]

Startpage and DuckDuckGo have drawn quite a few users away from Google, promising more privacy and no tracking what you do, with no records of where you've been, where you're going, or what you've searched for.

Bing is the best search tool out there with the highest accuracy rating of them all, and always giving the most relevant results every time I've used it compared to anything else. Google is better recognized name, where people use the word "google" to actually mean "web search" using any search engine. I've seen people in office setting say, "Let me google that," and they turn around and do a DuckDuckGo search. Personally, I'd like to see the word removed from everyday speech like that.

Instead of having a "Let Me Google That for You", we need to have a "Bing it on, Baby!"

This is the whole reason Microsoft invested into Cyanogen Mod, was to help wrestle control of Android away from Google and make Google less relevant. The less relevant Google is, the better for Microsoft. If Cyanogen Mod is successful with just this one thing, then it really won't matter if Google rethinks its approach towards MSFT or not, because Google will begin to fade into the background, just a bit at first, but bit-by-bit it will begin to fade. As big as they are, it will take years, but within 7 they will be struggling. First, wrestle Android away from Google. Without Google being the big power behind it, there will be 20 manufacturers all trying to make it their own, and suddenly you will have 20 flavors of Android that aren't cohesive. Apple will take over the major market share at first, with Windows 10 bringing up MSFT close behind. Eventually, given the number of failed ventures Google has undertaken (Google Glass, Google +, etc.) Google itself will eventually become just one, big, failed venture. Why? Because they keep acting like a kid in a candy store that wants to spend their entire allowance on frivolous stuff. Drones? Google Goggles? Google Glass? All wasted capital that should have been invested elsewhere.

 

[dkediger]

Firefox changed their built in search to Yahoo away from Google; there have been some reports that just that move made a 10% search market share for Google in the US.

Edit - Actually 20% according to fool.com, although most analysts expect a good portion of that percentage to return to Google as users reset to their preferred search.

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...-unfazed-after-firefox-elopes-with-searc.aspx

 

[Jorge Holguin]

Apple and Google contract is ending this year, MS and Yahoo are lobbying tirelessly to become the default search provider for Apple. Many are speculating that Bing has a big shot to get it because Siri uses Bing engine. So as you can see Google has made lots of enemy; they'd become what they denounced and made them so popular.

 

[troylytle]

Apple and Google contract is ending this year, MS and Yahoo are lobbying tirelessly to become the default search provider for Apple. Many are speculating that Bing has a big shot to get it because Siri uses Bing engine. So as you can see Google has made lots of enemy; they'd become what they denounced and made them so popular.

Both are Bing.

 

[I3unny]

Which site of google do you guys use more other than YouTube?

 

[Jorge Holguin]

Both are Bing.

Yes I know, but Yahoo is looking for all the way to end its contract with MS. Let's remember Marissa is a Google girl so she is not trill with MS and Yahoo relationship.

 

[rhapdog]

The only thing I use on Google is YouTube, but only because it's the only place I can subscribe to watch Microsoft videos and stuff. Seriously, MSFT needs to make their own competition for YouTube.

 

[Jorge Holguin]

The only thing I use on Google is YouTube, but only because it's the only place I can subscribe to watch Microsoft videos and stuff. Seriously, MSFT needs to make their own competition for YouTube.

I prefer is they buy Vimeo.

 

[dkediger]

I prefer is they buy Vimeo.

Yeah, this is something I'm surprised hadn't happened...

 

[dKp1977]

Yeah, this is something I'm surprised hadn't happened...

Vimeo is more about artistical stuff.. Not comparable to YouTube unfortunately. And even if Microsoft acquired it, still wouldn't change a thing about content. YouTube is flipping gigantic. It's literally everywhere.