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03-04-2015 12:41 AM
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  1. fatclue_98's Avatar
    BlackBerry cancelled BB10 as a platform, they don't have resources to compete, BB10 is alive only as an app launcher.
    That is about as absurd a comment as I've read in quite some time. Please provide a link to back up your claim that BB OS10 has been cancelled. I'll need it to forward to John Chen for some late afternoon chuckles.
    03-02-2015 05:07 PM
  2. tiziano27's Avatar
    Besides iTunes, Safari and some fairly nondescript apps, what native apps does Apple have? The iPhone is truly an app launcher in its purest form. At least Microsoft and BlackBerry have desirable services to port, iOS has nothing anybody could possibly want.

    Your supposition that Microsoft will break the bank by abandoning WP and relying on Android borders on the ridiculous considering Microsoft makes royalties from Android/Google. That would be akin to the proverbial biting off your nose to spite your face.
    iOS has the best apps by far. Many apps are exclusive for iOS because devs make more money on that platform and they develop first or in some cases only for it. iOS apps can't run in other OSs, so third party iOS apps are a big asset for Apple. However, Apple develop their own services too, like Siri, iCloud, iTunes, Beats music, Maps, iMessage and iWork.
    BlackBerry is not a platform, is an OS that emulate other OS to run its apps, in other words, a very inefficient Android launcher. How could a very inefficient Android launcher even be compared to iOS?

    I don't think Microsoft should abandon WP. I haven't said that.

    That is about as absurd a comment as I've read in quite some time. Please provide a link to back up your claim that BB OS10 has been cancelled. I'll need it to forward to John Chen for some late afternoon chuckles.
    They cancelled the platform, not the OS. They were still promoting native development for enterprise apps, but if that's still alive I don't think they got any traction.
    nmco9 likes this.
    03-02-2015 06:32 PM
  3. fatclue_98's Avatar
    iOS has the best apps by far. Many apps are exclusive for iOS because devs make more money on that platform and they develop first or in some cases only for it. iOS apps can't run in other OSs, so third party iOS apps are a big asset for Apple. However, Apple develop their own services like Siri, iCloud, iTunes, Beats music, Maps, iMessage and iWork.
    BlackBerry is not a platform, It's an OS that emulate other OS to run its apps, in other words, an very inefficient Android launcher. How could an very inefficient Android launcher even be compared to iOS?
    Considering that Siri uses Bing as their backend service, I wouldn't make such a blanket endorsement of Apple's "home grown" services.

    Siri Cozies Up To Bing

    As for BlackBerry, Android apps aren't the sole providers for the platform. Yes, platform. They have their own browser, the best email client in the business, BB maps, BBM and so forth. Apple relies on 3rd party apps more than any other mobile platform. At least Google does have more native services than iOS. BlackBerry World continues to be up and running so I'm still waiting for that announcement that the platform has been cancelled.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-02-2015 06:44 PM
  4. Alain_A's Avatar
    The BlackBerry browser is based on Apple's webkit
    source???? never heard of that
    03-02-2015 07:16 PM
  5. zhris's Avatar
    Many of us are still gunshy after heavily investing into this little guy:
    120gb-zune.jpg

    After the Zune fiasco, most people seem to think twice about any MSFT hardware that isn't named XBox.
    nmco9 likes this.
    03-02-2015 09:58 PM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    They cancelled the platform, not the OS.
    The platform and the OS are one and the same. BlackBerry OS 10.3.1 has just been released. BlackBerry OS 10.3.1 rollout has officially begun | CrackBerry.com
    fatclue_98 and ajst222 like this.
    03-02-2015 10:38 PM
  7. fatclue_98's Avatar
    Many of us are still gunshy after heavily investing into this little guy:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	120gb-zune.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	17.6 KB 
ID:	98788



    After the Zune fiasco, most people seem to think twice about any MSFT hardware that isn't named XBox.

    Don't forget the Kin!!!!!
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    03-02-2015 11:21 PM
  8. tiziano27's Avatar
    source???? never heard of that
    BlackBerry's browser uses webkit as the layout engine, and Google's V8 as the javascript VM.
    Sources: https://github.com/blackberry/WebKit-BB10
    https://github.com/blackberry/v8


    BlackBerry bought QNX to use it as a base for the kernel.
    History of QNX and its Implementation in BlackBerry 10 | CrackBerry.com


    BlackBerry's native API is based on QT 4, an application framework for Desktop apps that Nokia bought and retargeted for Meego. BlackBerry adopted this open source project, developed some UI components on top and they called it Cascades. The support and a possible upgrade of Cascades to QT 5 were aborted, which is a shame because QT 5 was really designed and optimized for mobile.
    Source: Learning Cascades - BlackBerry Native
    Qt5 Binary overlay : qtlab.blackberry.com didnt an... - Page 2 - BlackBerry Support Community Forums


    The gesture based UI of BB10 is again very similar to Meego.
    Source:


    Those are the origins of BB10, It's like a collage.
    03-02-2015 11:26 PM
  9. Hans Swolfs's Avatar
    Microsoft isn't exactly a cool company and Windows isn't exactly a cool brand.

    Then there's this:
    You can buy one phone. You have a choice between two phones that have any app under the sun. You might not know if you want them, but the games and time wasters are there. Then you have a third option. It isn't much cheaper, and it's lacking in the "can do anything through apps" thing. Which do you think people are going to choose?
    oh really? no offense but I think Microsoft is an awesome company and I care much more for them then I do for Google, Apple or Samsung... I've been a daily Windows user for more than 15 years now and it has ALWAYS served me well. I won't say that it's absolute perfect but NONE of them are. Microsoft's platform (together with awesome 3rd party tools) provides me with the things I need to create websites, edit photographs and more and more other things.

    WP is too different and not in a good way.
    I always love it when people give a good well-documented opinion :p

    "People disagree with me, so I'm going to go make a thread on an Internet forum and ask what's wrong with them because having a different opinion is appalling."

    The problem is with Microsoft. You said it yourself--they won't release a flagship, and it's such a sorry state when an OEM (even one whose hardware services switched hands last year) can't release a flagship on AT&T for 2.5 years. It's downright pitiful. as for the app issue, it's subjective. Sometimes, your job or life requires a set of software Windows Phone can't give you.

    The real question to ask is why you struggle to understand this.
    that's why it's called a discussion. There wouldn't be a discussion if there weren't differences in opinion. That's the entire point of a forum.

    Why is everyone so focussed on that entire flagship thing? As if the market would explode if MS would release a flagship phone now? Not going to happen. And you can't blame MS for not having a flagship in 2,5 years. How long was it since they acquired Nokia? Do you have any idea what such a takeover needs/means for a business even like Microsoft? I actually consider my Lumia 930 a flagship if you really want it. Great battery life, awesomes performance, WHAT A CAMERA :)

    I switched from an HTC One m7 to my Lumia 930 and haven't regretted that a single second.

    My 2 cents :)
    03-03-2015 02:31 AM
  10. Andrea Ghirardini's Avatar
    In US perhaps. In the rest of the world no one knows Zune and its history
    03-03-2015 03:58 AM
  11. Michael Alan Goff's Avatar
    oh really? no offense but I think Microsoft is an awesome company and I care much more for them then I do for Google, Apple or Samsung... I've been a daily Windows user for more than 15 years now and it has ALWAYS served me well. I won't say that it's absolute perfect but NONE of them are. Microsoft's platform (together with awesome 3rd party tools) provides me with the things I need to create websites, edit photographs and more and more other things.

    I always love it when people give a good well-documented opinion :p

    that's why it's called a discussion. There wouldn't be a discussion if there weren't differences in opinion. That's the entire point of a forum.

    Why is everyone so focussed on that entire flagship thing? As if the market would explode if MS would release a flagship phone now? Not going to happen. And you can't blame MS for not having a flagship in 2,5 years. How long was it since they acquired Nokia? Do you have any idea what such a takeover needs/means for a business even like Microsoft? I actually consider my Lumia 930 a flagship if you really want it. Great battery life, awesomes performance, WHAT A CAMERA :)

    I switched from an HTC One m7 to my Lumia 930 and haven't regretted that a single second.

    My 2 cents :)
    To most people, though, Microsoft is the company that makes the things you use for work. Businesses use Windows, Office. Schools do as well. When I say they aren't cool, I meant that they're no Apple or Google. They're both seen as energetic companies that aren't just "I use that at work". I'm not saying they're not a good company, or that Windows isn't good, but they're work brands.

    Heck, when most people think of photo editing they probably think of OS X.
    03-03-2015 05:42 AM
  12. RHoudek's Avatar
    I think that most people don't see the 930 as a real flag ship...
    because it was never released on anything but Verizon.

    Hard to gain traction when your best phone is on the carrier that supports it the least. (aside from Sprint)
    03-03-2015 10:03 AM
  13. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    that's why it's called a discussion. There wouldn't be a discussion if there weren't differences in opinion. That's the entire point of a forum.

    Why is everyone so focussed on that entire flagship thing? As if the market would explode if MS would release a flagship phone now? Not going to happen. And you can't blame MS for not having a flagship in 2,5 years. How long was it since they acquired Nokia? Do you have any idea what such a takeover needs/means for a business even like Microsoft? I actually consider my Lumia 930 a flagship if you really want it. Great battery life, awesomes performance, WHAT A CAMERA :)

    I switched from an HTC One m7 to my Lumia 930 and haven't regretted that a single second.

    My 2 cents :)
    The OP didn't put this out there as a discussion. He put it out there as an insult to dissenters. Read the title of the thread, where he says something is wrong with the world for not buying into Windows Phone. The point of a forum does not coincide with the point of his thread. It is a whiny troll thread, like so many others on this site.

    You're WAY off-base with the desire for a flagship as well. You think we're saying a flagship should be out to save Windows Phone and make it the top OS on the market. What we want is an upgrade path. I don't want a Lumia 940 to save the world from Android, I just want to upgrade from my Lumia 920. While I can't blame Microsoft for the lack of an AT&T 920 successor, I can absolutely blame them for the fact that they've had the hardware manufacturing for almost a year, yet they've released 0 flagships and about a dozen different budget device. Nokia made weird exclusivity deals, but they produced high-end devices. Microsoft just makes mid-range phones and worse.

    My 2-year agreement for my 920 ended 5 months ago. I could have upgraded from my 920 via AT&T Next almost a year ago, maybe even more (I don't know when the option started, but I know I could do it last May). Had Microsoft been anything close to upfront with their plans, I'd have gotten a Lumia 1520 on Next 12 or 18 10 months ago. I'd be ready to upgrade again by the time Windows 10 came around, or shortly after. Because of Microsoft's negligence, they lost that device sale (and I'm sure others from those waiting). Instead of carrying a 1520 with Denim today, I'm carrying a 920 with Cyan.

    The last point, that just shows you're not paying attention to what you're commenting on. I stated that there hasn't been an AT&T flagship in 2 years. You can argue the 1520, but it's a very niche device, due to size. The 930 has never been on AT&T. Plus, I've heard many complaints about battery life on the 930, so I don't know where you get that point about "[great] battery life," but that's often a subjective matter with phones anymore. My sister's got an Icon herself, so I know what the phone is. It was never that impressive in the first place, given Nokia went with an inferior display and SoC when they launched it. It was a 2014 release with a 2013 SoC.
    03-03-2015 11:23 AM
  14. JP8296's Avatar
    The OP didn't put this out there as a discussion. He put it out there as an insult to dissenters. Read the title of the thread, where he says something is wrong with the world for not buying into Windows Phone. The point of a forum does not coincide with the point of his thread. It is a whiny troll thread, like so many others on this site.
    That's your opinion and you got me very wrong...You see I have been doing a lot of reading thru the forum and the WC and I more and more I realise that most people buy their phones without any research about the phone or the OS and that applies to Iphone and Android users as well, I saw multiple times people misjudging WP and when I read their comments I got the feeling that they never spend a day with a WP device and yet they say a lot of nonsense and that annoys me, so yeah 'What the hell is wrong with the world...'
    03-03-2015 12:16 PM
  15. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    That's your opinion and you got me very wrong...You see I have been doing a lot of reading thru the forum and the WC and I more and more I realise that most people buy their phones without any research about the phone or the OS and that applies to Iphone and Android users as well, I saw multiple times people misjudging WP and when I read their comments I got the feeling that they never spend a day with a WP device and yet they say a lot of nonsense and that annoys me, so yeah 'What the hell is wrong with the world...'
    Sounds like I got it exactly right, then. You made a claim about people who disagree, offered no evidence, and complained that something was wrong with them. Your first post doesn't really line up with what you're saying now, though. You say people don't research Windows Phone, then say they know that there is a lack of high-end phones (definitely true) and a lack of applications (also true). I don't need to spend a day with a phone to know what it is. Whether the issues presented affect your or not, they're not falsehoods. I've had my 920 for almost 2.5 years, and those allegedly ignorant complaints are basically the same ones longtime WP owners have, so calling them uninformed is counter to what they actually are.
    03-03-2015 12:29 PM
  16. a5cent's Avatar
    I'm sure there's a study or survey regarding "most people" you can link to in order to support that, right?
    Can you link to a study proving he's not right? I have nothing to do with marketing, so I have no links, but I think Facebook is a perfect example of a successful business model built almost entirely around the idea that "most people are heavily influenced by what their friends like". Facebook's "like" button, and all the stealth advertising associated with it, is successful only because most people take recommendations by friends (a like), much more seriously than they take company sponsored ads. I can't provide numbers or proof, but I think there are more than enough examples showing the sgt. is right.
    03-03-2015 12:33 PM
  17. AndyCalling's Avatar
    The 930 is clearly the flagship Lumia phone (the 1520 being the flagship phablet). I really don't understand how people can consider the 920 was a flagship and the 930 isn't. If one service provider refuses to sell it then go to another, or buy it independently. Virgin Media don't offer the 930 so I went with EE. I don't think VM ever offered the 920, so does that mean the 920 was never a flagship? Clearly a load of toot. Sometimes I also wonder what's wrong with people around here...
    03-03-2015 12:41 PM
  18. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Can you link to a study proving he's not right?
    Um, you ask him to prove a negative and think yourself reasonable? That's clearly classic trolling technique. Please don't.
    03-03-2015 12:44 PM
  19. Grimlock's Avatar
    The 930 is clearly the flagship Lumia phone (the 1520 being the flagship phablet). I really don't understand how people can consider the 920 was a flagship and the 930 isn't. If one service provider refuses to sell it then go to another, or buy it independently. Virgin Media don't offer the 930 so I went with EE. I don't think VM ever offered the 920, so does that mean the 920 was never a flagship? Clearly a load of toot. Sometimes I also wonder what's wrong with people around here...
    Many of us live in the US and we can't get a Lumia 930 that will work on LTE. But thats not MS fault, we should be making our own LTE network thats compatible with the intl version.
    03-03-2015 12:48 PM
  20. JP8296's Avatar
    Sounds like I got it exactly right, then. You made a claim about people who disagree, offered no evidence, and complained that something was wrong with them. Your first post doesn't really line up with what you're saying now, though. You say people don't research Windows Phone, then say they know that there is a lack of high-end phones (definitely true) and a lack of applications (also true). I don't need to spend a day with a phone to know what it is. Whether the issues presented affect your or not, they're not falsehoods. I've had my 920 for almost 2.5 years, and those allegedly ignorant complaints are basically the same ones longtime WP owners have, so calling them uninformed is counter to what they actually are.
    I am complaining about the fact that people many times make a state of mind about something without some knowledge about the subject and seems to me that are other users here that find this a valid thread so if you don't agree with it why are you sharing your opinion?
    About the lack of flag ship you have the M8, htc 1520 and the 930 so plenty of options and just because you don't see it as a flag ship that's not others people opinion, apple launches a phone every 2 years and people do not complain about the lack of flagship devices. About the apps, you can say that are some apps missing in WP but there are some WP exclusive apps that are worth it and you don't have it on others OS and there are reasons to stay with WP.
    I didn't' call anyone ignorant, I said that there are a lot of users that don't know their phone and OS and thats true its not my fault is some people find that an insult.
    IndyJG likes this.
    03-03-2015 01:01 PM
  21. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Many of us live in the US and we can't get a Lumia 930 that will work on LTE. But thats not MS fault, we should be making our own LTE network thats compatible with the intl version.
    I am aware that in the US the 930 is called an Icon. Why not just switch to a service provider that sells the Icon? The fact that not every provider stocks it does not mean it is suddenly not a flagship.

    Thing is, in the US Windows phones are not what the public want. This will mean fewer service providers carry them, but you can always switch. Also, you can buy an Icon on ebay I'm sure.

    I still don't understand why a phone suddenly ceases to be a flagship because one or two service providers don't sell it. Weird logic.
    03-03-2015 01:46 PM
  22. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I am complaining about the fact that people many times make a state of mind about something without some knowledge about the subject and seems to me that are other users here that find this a valid thread so if you don't agree with it why are you sharing your opinion?
    About the lack of flag ship you have the M8, htc 1520 and the 930 so plenty of options and just because you don't see it as a flag ship that's not others people opinion, apple launches a phone every 2 years and people do not complain about the lack of flagship devices. About the apps, you can say that are some apps missing in WP but there are some WP exclusive apps that are worth it and you don't have it on others OS and there are reasons to stay with WP.
    I didn't' call anyone ignorant, I said that there are a lot of users that don't know their phone and OS and thats true its not my fault is some people find that an insult.
    /facepalm

    I have to ask: Can you read? I said that there hasn't been a Microsoft/Nokia flagship on AT&T. HTC isn't Microsoft/Nokia. The 930 isn't on AT&T. Why do you keep trying to bring it up?

    "if you don't agree with it why are you sharing your opinion?"

    The epitome of my complaint: You're basically looking for a bunch of like-minded sheep to come stroke your ego. You don't want a discussion, you want blind agreement.
    03-03-2015 02:08 PM
  23. MikeX74's Avatar
    Can you link to a study proving he's not right? I have nothing to do with marketing, so I have no links, but I think Facebook is a perfect example of a successful business model built almost entirely around the idea that "most people are heavily influenced by what their friends like". Facebook's "like" button, and all the stealth advertising associated with it, is successful only because most people take recommendations by friends (a like), much more seriously than they take company sponsored ads. I can't provide numbers or proof, but I think there are more than enough examples showing the sgt. is right.
    No, I can't, but I'm not the one making wholesale generalizations about smartphone buyers and the reasons why they buy what they buy.
    03-03-2015 02:57 PM
  24. a5cent's Avatar
    Um, you ask him to prove a negative and think yourself reasonable? That's clearly classic trolling technique. Please don't.
    lol. Can you prove that? (hint: your claim is also a negative) You can't prove that something doesn't exist. True. That's just completely besides the point here. It is absolutely possible to show how much of an affect acquaintances/friends have on purchasing decisions, whether large, small, or none matters not. This issue isn't within the domain of pure logic. It's a statistical issue, solved by sampling and interpolation. If it's reasonable to ask for a study showing that friends HAVE a measurable affect on purchasing decisions, it's just as reasonable to ask for a study showing that NO SUCH AFFECT could be measured!

    Why go ballistic? Why not just acknowledge the point that Facebook earns a lot of money through advertising and claims this affect as one of their strategic advantages?

    P.S. Calling anybody a troll is considered worthy of an infraction, and usually also gets your post deleted. I'm going to give you a pass since I'm not a normal member. Just don't make a habit of it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 03-03-2015 at 03:44 PM.
    03-03-2015 03:07 PM
  25. a5cent's Avatar
    No, I can't, but I'm not the one making wholesale generalizations about smartphone buyers and the reasons why they buy what they buy.
    That's fine. I looked and couldn't find anything for either point of view either. However, I still think Facebook provides us with a very strong argument that acquaintances/friends do have a rather large affect on peoples purchasing decisions. That's basically what Facebook claims their strategic advantage to be over more generic advertising distribution channels like Google.
    03-03-2015 03:18 PM
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