04-11-2015 02:44 AM
43 12
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  1. Sebastianx's Avatar
    We will have to wait a long time before they are more powerful. Win32 Apps can litteraly do whatever they want right now.
    Definitely. I think the answer is never Win32 apps has a broad range of possibilities while Windows Apps itself depends on the limitations set by the SDK.
    04-05-2015 09:05 AM
  2. TheLumaniac's Avatar
    Definitely. I think the answer is never Win32 apps has a broad range of possibilities while Windows Apps itself depends on the limitations set by the SDK.
    That's right, but Windows apps are still quite new. In the next few years they will become much better (and they will greatly increase in quantity, not just quality).
    04-05-2015 09:27 AM
  3. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    Actually I'm not even sure we can compare these. On one side, we have "programs", and on the other we have "applications". They don't even fit in the same category...
    04-05-2015 10:40 AM
  4. jhoff80's Avatar
    Actually I'm not even sure we can compare these. On one side, we have "programs", and on the other we have "applications". They don't even fit in the same category...
    ​The only difference there is in name. And you're also drawing an imaginary line in the sand that doesn't even exist. Right click on an EXE in Windows, choose 'Properties' and what is it described as? "Application (.exe)"
    04-05-2015 11:11 AM
  5. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    ​The only difference there is in name. And you're also drawing an imaginary line in the sand that doesn't even exist. Right click on an EXE in Windows, choose 'Properties' and what is it described as? "Application (.exe)"
    That's a limitation of the English language. In French you have "Des applications" and "Des logiciels". I'il admit it, the line isn't very clear, but you can't say there isn't any.
    04-05-2015 12:53 PM
  6. TheLumaniac's Avatar
    That's a limitation of the English language. In French you have "Des applications" and "Des logiciels". I'il admit it, the line isn't very clear, but you can't say there isn't any.
    Actually a program IS an application...
    04-05-2015 03:59 PM
  7. KarmaEcrivain94's Avatar
    Actually a program IS an application...
    Technically, yes. But then technically a square is a rectangle...
    04-05-2015 04:58 PM
  8. runamuck83's Avatar
    To me if Microsoft continues investing in "Windows Apps" (aka Windows Runtime) there's no reason why it could not one day be as powerful as Win32 based programs.

    I'm sure their goal is to make it the defacto standard for applications / programs for Windows so they make the revenue on the app store. It's the only way their "free" Windows deal is going to pay for itself.
    04-05-2015 05:43 PM
  9. ahumeniy's Avatar
    I see it as an egg and chicken issue. Developers think "They can use exe's anyway, why bother making it as a modern App?". Users expecting to run exe apps on their tablets isn't helping either. Modern apps can improve in capabilities to be in par with traditional exes, but there is still no reason to rebuild an existing App into a modern App if: a) there is still more Windows desktops and laptops than tablets, b) Windows tablets can run exes anyway and c) users actually want to run exes in their tablets despite it not being the most efficient way (no mouse precision, tiny screens)

    Maybe it would be an unpopular opinion but Windows RT was the hope to modern apps to be ever popular. Not having the hability to run traditional exes would be a compelling reason to rewrite existing apps into modern apps if RT was ever successfull. Too bad it was misunderstood, had poor to no publicity and Microsoft insisted it remained a niche product offering it only in their physical stores in the US
    tgp likes this.
    04-07-2015 10:45 AM
  10. tgp's Avatar
    Maybe it would be an unpopular opinion but Windows RT was the hope to modern apps to be ever popular. Not having the hability to run traditional exes would be a compelling reason to rewrite existing apps into modern apps if RT was ever successfull.
    I agree with this. Microsoft just canned their best chance at forcing Modern apps. Now, all tablets are running full Windows, which can run .exe's. The only device left to rely on Modern apps is WP, but at the moment WP is not significant enough to create a must-have situation.
    04-07-2015 10:51 AM
  11. kalinin-ilya's Avatar
    Universal app may well replace classic. Only need to transfer all functions
    04-08-2015 04:30 AM
  12. vlknff's Avatar
    For now don't see it happening. SDK and APIs need to go a long way at best apps could be front end of some win32 apps .Especially when we go into specialized industries with slow development - 3d scanning software for example (from experience) - updates come once a year let alone rewriting software to suit modern apps.
    04-09-2015 08:51 AM
  13. Tsang Fai's Avatar
    Can you imaging Windows itself having nothing but Windows Apps?

    For simple needs, Windows Apps may begin to dominate, but more powerful applications - ones that are very demanding of processors and memory - will probably always be the traditional .exe files.
    I worked as a computer programmer a long time ago and I did write some win32 programs (with Visual Studio at that time). I have zero knowledge on the Windows Apps architecture. Do you mean there is some limitation on Windows Apps? (so that it is technically impossible to have those powerful software like Photoshop as a Windows app?)

    If the Windows apps architecture does not have any limitation, then I think in the long run (maybe very long of course) Windows apps will replace win32 programs. Although I am not a computer programmer (I was, a long time ago), I believe the Windows apps architecture is cleaner and easier for coding.

    If that happens, then virtually Windows Apps have become a mobile + desktop platform. This is indeed a good news to users as they can browse for useful "desktop apps" on the store.
    04-09-2015 09:21 AM
  14. TheCudder's Avatar
    Maybe it would be an unpopular opinion but Windows RT was the hope to modern apps to be ever popular. Not having the hability to run traditional exes would be a compelling reason to rewrite existing apps into modern apps if RT was ever successfull. Too bad it was misunderstood, had poor to no publicity and Microsoft insisted it remained a niche product offering it only in their physical stores in the US
    I agree with this. Microsoft just canned their best chance at forcing Modern apps. Now, all tablets are running full Windows, which can run .exe's. The only device left to rely on Modern apps is WP, but at the moment WP is not significant enough to create a must-have situation.
    Keeping Windows RT alive was NEVER going to make Windows Apps successful --- OEM's didn't even support it, Dell killed their RT tablet very early on and only Microsoft/Nokia supported it since. If anything, Windows 8 is the reason for RT's failure. The "metro" app design language it adopted from WP was terrible and was unusable as a Desktop Application replacement due to it's excessive touch/gesture based and panoramic navigation properties. And that's ironic being that Microsoft was using it's position in the Desktop market to try and boost it's mobile presence. It's not like the loss of RT causes Windows to lose any functionality, Windows 8.1/10 can do anything RT did + legacy functions --- which is the way it should have been all along to allow for a transition period (Win32 applications >> WinRT apps). Did you expect everyone to just dump their x86 applications in favor of a severely limited WinRT app? WinRT has a long way to go, but Microsoft is doing a great job with the new Outlook, Word & Project Spartan apps to show developers how effective an app can be on both a tablet & desktop device. Something Windows 8 failed to do....actually it's like they didn't even attempt to showcase that ability.
    04-09-2015 11:32 AM
  15. illidanx's Avatar
    I worked as a computer programmer a long time ago and I did write some win32 programs (with Visual Studio at that time). I have zero knowledge on the Windows Apps architecture. Do you mean there is some limitation on Windows Apps? (so that it is technically impossible to have those powerful software like Photoshop as a Windows app?)

    If the Windows apps architecture does not have any limitation, then I think in the long run (maybe very long of course) Windows apps will replace win32 programs. Although I am not a computer programmer (I was, a long time ago), I believe the Windows apps architecture is cleaner and easier for coding.

    If that happens, then virtually Windows Apps have become a mobile + desktop platform. This is indeed a good news to users as they can browse for useful "desktop apps" on the store.
    It has a tons of limitations. Also worse performance on modern app.
    04-09-2015 01:29 PM
  16. Cleavitt76's Avatar
    I think it's important to point out that the "limitations" of the WinRT framework are mostly intentional and part of the design. The WinRT framework was created to cater to the least common denominator so that it could run on nearly any device (Rasberry Pi 2 for example). It is basically a subset of the more common Windows APIs. Win32 on the other hand has always been designed to do anything and everything that the full Windows OS is capable of doing.

    The point is that WinRT apps really can't fully replace the capabilities of Win32 programs until such time as the most limited devices have much more capable hardware. If a developer is creating software that can operate within the intentional limits of WinRT then they can do without Win32. Otherwise, Win32 (and an underlying full OS + related hardware) is still needed. As mobile hardware and OSes become more capable I'm sure the gap between WinRT and Win32 will shrink, but for now that gap is required.
    Laura Knotek and Tsang Fai like this.
    04-09-2015 09:15 PM
  17. illidanx's Avatar
    I think it's important to point out that the "limitations" of the WinRT framework are mostly intentional and part of the design. The WinRT framework was created to cater to the least common denominator so that it could run on nearly any device (Rasberry Pi 2 for example). It is basically a subset of the more common Windows APIs. Win32 on the other hand has always been designed to do anything and everything that the full Windows OS is capable of doing.

    The point is that WinRT apps really can't fully replace the capabilities of Win32 programs until such time as the most limited devices have much more capable hardware. If a developer is creating software that can operate within the intentional limits of WinRT then they can do without Win32. Otherwise, Win32 (and an underlying full OS + related hardware) is still needed. As mobile hardware and OSes become more capable I'm sure the gap between WinRT and Win32 will shrink, but for now that gap is required.
    I don't think it's because of hardware capability, it's mostly because of security. WinRT app does not have access to API that can mess with system. Take JIT for exampe, it has always been there since windows 8 but only the default browser can use it.
    04-10-2015 08:50 AM
  18. anon(5445874)'s Avatar
    Before I would ever use a Windows App over a Win32 app, there needs to be Drag and Drop. All day, I work on my PC and drag & drop is a huge thing that saves time. Until then, Windows Apps will be nice toys for fun, but not for work.
    04-11-2015 02:44 AM
43 12

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