05-21-2015 11:49 PM
133 1234 ...
tools
  1. Harrie-S's Avatar
    What I still miss here is the "sandboxing strategy" windows has.
    One of the most asked app is for example an app locker like android but even if the android code can be easy "translated" to "windows" code the sandboxing is still a bottleneck. (I am bye the way not against sandboxing).
    04-30-2015 02:03 PM
  2. stephen_az's Avatar
    I guess you don't use Cortana? It was a featured Microsoft article this morning and people are openly quoted - nothing mysterious or conspiratorial about it at all. Actually there is more than one article but I believe the one in question is: How developers really feel about Microsoft welcoming iOS and Android. Opinions ranged from curiosity to mild interest to no interest, and a few they will be live it when they see it, with no one expressing any the excitement you see here or (ironically) among the people who are already Windows developers. Those are also very much the common themes in the comments.

    As for people getting their hands on the tools, they point is they have no great interest. I expect some will give it a try out of curiosity but success presupposes that people want their apps on Windows and there was an impediment. The impediment, however, was not the tools - it was/is simply they don't see the point. Nothing has changed. Microsoft has simply made it easier to do something people have no interest in doing because of the reasons noted above, and a few others as well. Do your own homework before simply attacking something you do not like....
    04-30-2015 02:35 PM
  3. stephen_az's Avatar
    He is probably just trying to start a flame war or something. Pathetic beyond measure
    The only persons attempting to start a flame war would appear to those throwing around negatives because the original post doesn't say what they want to hear. I have linked to one of the articles for the person since they do not have enough posts to do it. Did you miss that part of their post? BTW, as I noted I my other post, anyone who uses Cortana should have seen it in either the tech news or Microsoft news this morning. Ironically, Microsoft has made no effort to filter dissenting opinions whereas some people around here certainly seem to want to try....
    hokto and Tareq27 like this.
    04-30-2015 02:39 PM
  4. jojoe42's Avatar
    Surely the costs of support and maintenance would be outweighed by the potential market of 1 billion devices. I mean like of course some apps would be useless on the xbone but it's the opportunity to reach a wider audience on different form factors. I think having settled in on other platforms some of the big companies are pretty content with their user base already (*cough* Snapchat *cough*)
    04-30-2015 02:55 PM
  5. Jazmac's Avatar
    Some devs were interviewed about this, and they say that its not worth it, mainly because:

    • it is already easy to port, the problem is the manteinance and support
    • the low market share don't woth the effort


    Sorry, not allowed yet to post links because i'm new

    LINK tip: mashable com TITLE How developers really feel about Microsoft welcoming iOS and Android
    "Some devs" are not the development community so I would dismiss this claim out of hand completely. Anyway, not really surprizing to see a thread like this one here from the low post count pimps after the recent announcement from google's biggest fear, The Microsoft Juggernaut. Beyond that, Mashable is weak. They only post whatever gets them post clicks. That is how they have always been.
    k72, rhapdog, 920Walker and 7 others like this.
    04-30-2015 03:17 PM
  6. coip's Avatar
    If it is now almost effortless to port the entire app, wouldn't it also be just as effortless to maintain it (i.e. update it)? If so, their point about not wanting to port because it still takes a bunch of time to "maintain" the app will no longer be true, no?
    04-30-2015 04:07 PM
  7. jleebiker's Avatar
    I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture. It's not just about WP and handsets, it's about Universal apps. Writing it once and running on a multitude of platforms. Microsoft, via Windows 10, is going to be the leader in allowing one app to run on any device it is thrown at; handset, tablet, laptop/desktop.

    People have to look at the bigger picture.
    Jazmac, rhapdog, raycpl and 8 others like this.
    04-30-2015 04:16 PM
  8. Jazmac's Avatar
    I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture. It's not just about WP and handsets, it's about Universal apps. Writing it once and running on a multitude of platforms. Microsoft, via Windows 10, is going to be the leader in allowing one app to run on any device it is thrown at; handset, tablet, laptop/desktop.

    People have to look at the bigger picture.
    Agreed.
    04-30-2015 04:33 PM
  9. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture. It's not just about WP and handsets, it's about Universal apps. Writing it once and running on a multitude of platforms. Microsoft, via Windows 10, is going to be the leader in allowing one app to run on any device it is thrown at; handset, tablet, laptop/desktop.

    People have to look at the bigger picture.
    I think people also need to be realistic as well. The universal apps we've already had, this is conceding defeat but trying to make it look pretty at the same time. :)
    Spectrum90 and prasath1234 like this.
    04-30-2015 05:48 PM
  10. neo158's Avatar
    If it is now almost effortless to port the entire app, wouldn't it also be just as effortless to maintain it (i.e. update it)? If so, their point about not wanting to port because it still takes a bunch of time to "maintain" the app will no longer be true, no?
    Exactly, King manage to maintain Candy Crush Saga on WP despite it being an iOS port.
    rhapdog likes this.
    04-30-2015 06:05 PM
  11. rhapdog's Avatar
    I think people also need to be realistic as well. The universal apps we've already had, this is conceding defeat but trying to make it look pretty at the same time. :)
    Completely different type of universal app. Currently, universal apps have separately maintained code bases for each device type, but have an "own on other devices" type of sales effort. The core of the program may have been the same, but the UI had to be different for each device. A pain to maintain. The new universal apps will be virtually identical in code with very few exceptions. Easy to maintain.

    The terminology used ay be the same, but with vastly different meanings. It's been redefined in a big way here.
    Last edited by rhapdog; 04-30-2015 at 06:57 PM.
    04-30-2015 06:24 PM
  12. wokaz80's Avatar
    This is good for free & ad based apps, but the problem is the iOS & Android devs, after having seen big bucks at the other stores, feel there isn't much to be made from WP, cause majority here are on budget sets & are cheapskates (I plead guilty).
    Now this is another reason as to why a flagship is required. Not just to show off the OS in all its glory, but also to prove that it can cater to all strata of users from the lowest of the low to the premium class.
    "big bucks" is a debatable terms. Tbh average developers dont make much in mobile world, but the "big" developers always make a lot of money (basically the gap between the successful and the average is too big). In that mashable link, i think some of the app developers there are just making average amount of money, not "big bucks", hence why some of them said it's not worth it to put resource to work and update on windows platform, simply because they dont make a lot of money so their budget is limited. ofc im not saying big developers wouldn't ignore W10, some of them would definitely do, but I think in the end we can't really make assumption based on what some developers say, especially when these developers are just average developers
    prasath1234 likes this.
    04-30-2015 10:51 PM
  13. wokaz80's Avatar
    If it is now almost effortless to port the entire app, wouldn't it also be just as effortless to maintain it (i.e. update it)? If so, their point about not wanting to port because it still takes a bunch of time to "maintain" the app will no longer be true, no?
    yes i dont get the reason behind the app developer who said this. after porting an app, if let's say you update your android app, you can easily update your windows app as well (to add the features that you added previously to the android app). you dont have to re-edit the parts that you edited earlier for the windows app launch, only the parts that you updated for the android app. basically just copy+paste it, or am I wrong?

    I am not a coder but this is how I see it:
    1. let's say the game name is fun marathon. I port it from android to windows 10 by editing some codes, let's say the last 10 lines of codes in 5 different files.
    2. let's say I add new feature in fun marathon for android, for stage 12-20. For doing this, i add 100 lines of code in 10 different files. I can just copy paste the scripts of those stage 12-20 and add it to my fun marathon windows 10 project folder by editing the exact line of codes in the same files, right? because how I see it, the "part" that I needed to edit to port to Windows 10, i have done it previously when i release the game to Windows 10.
    04-30-2015 11:01 PM
  14. oviedofreak82's Avatar
    The way I see it, these devs are being ignorant and lazy. They're also many that don't see the fact that Windows 10 is a universal OS, so if you screw the phone user base thinking that there's no incentive for them, then they're not seeing the big picture the PC/laptop, Xbox and tablet communities. There are far more users there than on phones. To those devs who don't want to adopt, I wish them well; eventually they'll come to and realize the profit margin they're missing because they fail to adopt. This is truly remarkable; no other software company is going full scale like Microsoft has. This is the new Microsoft, not the domineering company of the 1990s and early 2000s.
    bo_woods, Jazmac and prasath1234 like this.
    04-30-2015 11:39 PM
  15. PepperdotNet's Avatar
    Sure, some "phone apps" wouldn't be necessarily useful on "desktop machines" - but I would definitely say if there's a game that's fun to play on a tiny phone, it would be a much better experience on a Windows tablet with bigger screen and more resources.
    05-01-2015 12:11 AM
  16. Owen Dugmore's Avatar
    They're also many that don't see the fact that Windows 10 is a universal OS, so if you screw the phone user base thinking that there's no incentive for them, then they're not seeing the big picture the PC/laptop, Xbox and tablet communities.
    Exactly. They're still seeing it as Windows Phone, not Windows 10. And this is why Microsoft needs to do a better job getting the word out about this one. Not everyone was watching //build. Some people still won't care but at least it will attract more attention.
    05-01-2015 12:15 AM
  17. anthonyng's Avatar
    Sure, some "phone apps" wouldn't be necessarily useful on "desktop machines" - but I would definitely say if there's a game that's fun to play on a tiny phone, it would be a much better experience on a Windows tablet with bigger screen and more resources.
    A game I'm into right now is Pocket Tanks

    There is a Windows 8.1 app but it's not the same as the phone... no online multiplayer! I so want to play this and destroy my buddies in full screen SP3 glory! :D And also access to other friends to destroy who don't use windows phone but have windows computers!!
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-01-2015 12:28 AM
  18. ajayden's Avatar
    Just to explain the maintenance of apps (even if it is generated from iOS or Android code).

    As I am a developer, I would see it from the following stand point.
    I can develop an app for iOS and Android and easily port it to WP and Windows.
    So when I have an update for Android and iOS, I can port the updated code to WP and Windows, easily with the current announcements.

    So update and maintenance wouldnt be an issue.
    05-01-2015 12:35 AM
  19. Spectrum90's Avatar
    If you ask desktop developers about porting their apps to Linux the answers would be similar.
    WP is just too small and insignificant, It's the Linux of mobile. Even if the port is automatic, just one click, many developers won't do it.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-01-2015 12:37 AM
  20. plotsucker's Avatar
    I think devs who make good money with their apps on Droid and/or IOS will take a look on this 4 sure. Devs who make crappy apps and actually dont earn much would argue like those ppl behind the "why should i" comments.
    05-01-2015 01:08 AM
  21. juanitoriv's Avatar
    Agreed.
    Double agreed
    05-01-2015 01:51 AM
  22. neo158's Avatar
    If you ask desktop developers about porting their apps to Linux the answers would be similar.
    WP is just too small and insignificant, It's the Linux of mobile. Even if the port is automatic, just one click, many developers won't do it.
    Not the same thing, you're only looking at Phones and not the entire Windows 10 ecosystem. With a potential billion extra customers then developers would have to be deaf, dumb and blind NOT to port their apps and games across to Windows.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-01-2015 05:00 AM
  23. Giddora's Avatar
    Some devs were interviewed about this, and they say that its not worth it, mainly because:

    • it is already easy to port, the problem is the manteinance and support
    • the low market share don't woth the effort


    Sorry, not allowed yet to post links because i'm new

    LINK tip: mashable com TITLE How developers really feel about Microsoft welcoming iOS and Android
    1 billion devices is far from low marketshare.
    Legoboyii likes this.
    05-01-2015 06:13 AM
  24. Nogitsune Micah's Avatar
    I will admit I am not a developer but how is that any different than what is coming for Windows 10. On Windows 8/phone 8, I can buy the same app and it relatively has the same UI as it does on my lumia 1520 as it does on my surface pro 3. There may be some changes in the layout yes, but it works and looks the same overall.

    In fact according to the Windows blog post

    "Universal Windows apps are there to allow the same app to be written for Windows 8.1 Store and Windows Phone 8.1 with little code changes. Note that it’s not the same as linking a Windows and Phone app in the Store – this can be done in the non-Universal model as well; here I’m referring to actual code sharing, whether the apps will be linked in the Store or not. Almost everything can be shared, and obviously some things will have to change, such as UI layout, or usage of special features of one platform or the other. But, as it turns out, most code, and even XAML can actually be shared; and that’s a real advantage we didn’t have before."

    So it having a 'separately maintained code" isn't true at all. Unless I am missing something. How is this really any different from Windows 8 universal apps for phone/desktop except now you can convert Android/IOS apps to do the same thing...that is if developers decide to make the apps natively.

    From Windows Central Post:
    "Android apps on Windows 10 won't be handled in such a way. Microsoft is making it so that Android developers can reuse their existing Java and C++ code to create a Windows 10 Universal App. The result will be a Windows app that behaves like a Windows app. It can use live tiles, Cortana and Xbox Live, for example. It'll require a little work on developers part, Google services will be substituted for Microsoft services, and all apps will integrate with the standard Windows navigation."

    Which we will then see a bunch of crap ports with no native aspects and complaints in the future about app quality. Calling it :D

    They may have done it differently the blackberry but I imagine the same complaints about app quality blackberry gets now will ring true for windows.
    Completely different type of universal app. Currently, universal apps have separately maintained code bases for each device type, but have an "own on other devices" type of sales effort. The core of the program may have been the same, but the UI had to be different for each device. A pain to maintain. The new universal apps will be virtually identical in code with very few exceptions. Easy to maintain.

    The terminology used ay be the same, but with vastly different meanings. It's been redefined in a big way here.
    prasath1234 likes this.
    05-01-2015 07:14 AM
  25. Robert Mauk1's Avatar
    Probably An APPLE FANBOY!
    05-01-2015 07:48 AM
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