Frustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

xandros9

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re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

Microsoft don't need mindshare, they need MARKETshare which is practically non existent at the moment. Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.

They need mindshare. Plenty of people think my 920 is cool, they've just never seen or heard of it before.

Who's going to buy what they don't know about? And we can't count on reps to inform them.
 

theefman

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

Microsoft don't need mindshare, they need MARKETshare which is practically non existent at the moment. Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.



I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
 

Laura Knotek

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
The US carriers also offer payment plans that allow people to finance the cost of high-end devices monthly without interest. Many customers also choose those plans in lieu of traditional contracts but still choose high-end devices.

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Raj Poladia

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.
Did you consider India and china in poor economies? Where many people still go for low and midrange phones than flagships....
 

tgp

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

Targeting the mid to low end makes sense as that's where the sales are and seems to be where the marketshare is as well.

And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

Total sales for WP have been stagnant for the last 2 years or so, while the the total market has increased. There was a chart going around here a little while ago showing WP sales at around 7 - 10 million per quarter, for the last 8 quarters! One quarter up, the next down, but all pretty much the same. That's why I don't buy the argument that Microsoft is brilliantly using low cost WPs to increase market share; even if that's what they're trying to do, it is not working.

Android outsells WP at a 30 to 1 ratio. If half of Android sales are low end (and it's probably higher than that), that's still 15 to 1 for the low end market. It's a piddly amount, which could mean something if it was going up. Once again, it is not. I cannot see Microsoft patting itself on the back over their success.

No flagships means no big spenders on services for the most part. iPhone users are the most profitable, but every iPhone sold is a flagship. Android, while having its share of affordable sales, still sells plenty of flagships. Again, profitable users. Where are Microsoft's?
 

Laura Knotek

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

Total sales for WP have been stagnant for the last 2 years or so, while the the total market has increased. There was a chart going around here a little while ago showing WP sales at around 7 - 10 million per quarter, for the last 8 quarters! One quarter up, the next down, but all pretty much the same. That's why I don't buy the argument that Microsoft is brilliantly using low cost WPs to increase market share; even if that's what they're trying to do, it is not working.

Android outsells WP at a 30 to 1 ratio. If half of Android sales are low end (and it's probably higher than that), that's still 15 to 1 for the low end market. It's a piddly amount, which could mean something if it was going up. Once again, it is not. I cannot see Microsoft patting itself on the back over their success.

No flagships means no big spenders on services for the most part. iPhone users are the most profitable, but every iPhone sold is a flagship. Android, while having its share of affordable sales, still sells plenty of flagships. Again, profitable users. Where are Microsoft's?
That's the key. Persons who spend money on flagship devices also spend more money on apps.

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fatclue_98

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

In the US this is true. However, there are some countries in Europe where the share has increased. People are leery of buying a flagship phone that they don't know enough about. Even a cheap Xiaomi carries the Android label.
 

neo158

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

That's the key. Persons who spend money on flagship devices also spend more money on apps.

Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk

Apps has nothing to do with it. Look at how many flagship WP devices sell compared to mid-range and low end ones and you might be surprised because more flagship models means less money for Microsoft.

The other point here of course is that WP doesn't need Android like specs to run it so we don't need 3-4 new flagship models per year anyway.
 

neo158

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

I think we need to bury this myth that low end phones are where the users are. The only areas where this is true is in poorer economies where people have no choice but to buy phones outright. In developed countries, much as I hate carrier phones, they do give the option to get the best devices at a lower cost. Spending $199 to get a Galaxy S6 or iPhone 6 negates any appeal low cost devices have at anything above $50 when a little more will net you a bona fide flagship.

This is why WP is not competitive in the US and other advanced countries, for the same or not much more you can get much more for your money so why buy a bottom of the barrel WP device? Lets not forget that Samsung now enjoys sales of millions of its flagship galaxy phones comparable to the iPhone which at one point they were not doing and while they still sell low priced phones those aren't the ones getting the marketing and TV time. Microsoft pushing out a bazillion low end devices gives them nothing to market against the leaders and thus, very little significant growth. Sadly they have shot themselves in the foot yet again and have to wait (again) for the savior Windows 10 to launch and hope the market for WP doesn't completely disappear in the interim.

And what has that strategy done for Microsoft? And where does this idea that Microsoft's stragegy is to "flood the market" with low end devices to get market share up come from? All these affordable Windows Phones have not increased market share; in fact; it's dropping.

Total sales for WP have been stagnant for the last 2 years or so, while the the total market has increased. There was a chart going around here a little while ago showing WP sales at around 7 - 10 million per quarter, for the last 8 quarters! One quarter up, the next down, but all pretty much the same. That's why I don't buy the argument that Microsoft is brilliantly using low cost WPs to increase market share; even if that's what they're trying to do, it is not working.

Android outsells WP at a 30 to 1 ratio. If half of Android sales are low end (and it's probably higher than that), that's still 15 to 1 for the low end market. It's a piddly amount, which could mean something if it was going up. Once again, it is not. I cannot see Microsoft patting itself on the back over their success.

No flagships means no big spenders on services for the most part. iPhone users are the most profitable, but every iPhone sold is a flagship. Android, while having its share of affordable sales, still sells plenty of flagships. Again, profitable users. Where are Microsoft's?

None of this applies outside the US though and you guys need to bury the myth that only the US matters.
 

tgp

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

None of this applies outside the US though and you guys need to bury the myth that only the US matters.
Could be true, but overall market share is dropping, not just the US or any other hand-picked country.

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bijak_riyandi

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

None of this applies outside the US though and you guys need to bury the myth that only the US matters.

People (or at least US Americans) forgot that China, India, and the whole South East Asia is more populated than the rest of the world combined

And in this market, a Denim 930 (which is the current flagship) is largely available
 

Dadstar0410

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Honestly, I've been delved into WP for so long that I wouldn't mind dropping from flagship (M8) to a mid-range/budget for my next device. For me, it's more about the experience/software, not the phone itself. Only issue for me would be storage, for I'm not willing to spend extra money for SD cards.
 

Richard Culverhouse

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Honestly, I've been delved into WP for so long that I wouldn't mind dropping from flagship (M8) to a mid-range/budget for my next device. For me, it's more about the experience/software, not the phone itself. Only issue for me would be storage, for I'm not willing to spend extra money for SD cards.
I've already done it lol
930 to 640XL. Loving it so far
 

theefman

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

None of this applies outside the US though and you guys need to bury the myth that only the US matters.



I clearly included non US sales in my post so clearly I don't think "only the US matters" but even outside the US, flagships sell. But as has already been mentioned, years of focusing on low end devices hasn't moved the needle for WP so at some point the strategy has to change.

Could be true, but overall market share is dropping, not just the US or any other hand-picked country.

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And this fact is completely ignored in these discussions.
 

fatclue_98

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

I clearly included non US sales in my post so clearly I don't think "only the US matters" but even outside the US, flagships sell. But as has already been mentioned, years of focusing on low end devices hasn't moved the needle for WP so at some point the strategy has to change.



And this fact is completely ignored in these discussions.

The only problem is that WP has sold flagships and they haven't moved the needle either. That renders the low-end argument a moot point. The fact is, iPhone and Android are the recognized "leaders" in the public eye and only a game changing feature is going to change this perception.
 

boxa72

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

The only problem is that WP has sold flagships and they haven't moved the needle either. That renders the low-end argument a moot point. The fact is, iPhone and Android are the recognized "leaders" in the public eye and only a game changing feature is going to change this perception.

Like I said before, if they don't knock their next flagship right out of the freaking park even that might not save WP. It's now becoming a niche market for WP where only dedicated fans are buying them or someone who can't afford a flagship experience. You are dead wrong about it not being about apps. It's ALL about apps!!!
 

Laura Knotek

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

Apps has nothing to do with it. Look at how many flagship WP devices sell compared to mid-range and low end ones and you might be surprised because more flagship models means less money for Microsoft.

The other point here of course is that WP doesn't need Android like specs to run it so we don't need 3-4 new flagship models per year anyway.
It does. The person who can afford an iPhone can afford to buy apps for it. That is why iOS is so profitable for developers. The person who buys a cheap phone is less likely to be able to afford to pay for apps for it.

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Hesham Fouad

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I bought a flag ship last year 1520 now I regret many design faults sold 920 which was one of the best Lumia phones except battery life
Imagining if I went to note 3 how's much big different, windows still good in many things too but even free application not there all web site says download our app, icon for ios and one for Android, even if they make one for Windows it's the worst one
 

Ebuka Allison

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

The only problem is that WP has sold flagships and they haven't moved the needle either. That renders the low-end argument a moot point. The fact is, iPhone and Android are the recognized "leaders" in the public eye and only a game changing feature is going to change this perception.

The Lumia 925 + 920 combined have the third largest WP installed base
 

boxa72

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Re: Fustrated with "No Flagship" complaints

Like I said before, if they don't knock their next flagship right out of the freaking park even that might not save WP. It's now becoming a niche market for WP where only dedicated fans are buying them or someone who can't afford a flagship experience. You are dead wrong about it not being about apps. It's ALL about apps!!!


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