06-06-2015 11:12 PM
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  1. avchdman55's Avatar
    smh everytime someone complains about bugs in alpha software.
    Jazmac and DavidinCT like this.
    05-18-2015 12:45 PM
  2. someone2639's Avatar
    smh everytime someone complains about bugs in alpha software.
    It's like complaining about air in bread.
    xandros9, aximtreo, LennH and 1 others like this.
    05-18-2015 12:58 PM
  3. ashram's Avatar
    It's like complaining about air in bread.
    there's air in bread?!?!

    But seriously, no reason to complain about hating windows 10 right now. It's still not representative of the final release.
    05-18-2015 01:10 PM
  4. KhawarNadeem's Avatar
    Win10forMobileOnaReallyBigScreenEditionWithEnterpriseFeaturesForPeopleWithPhonesAndTabletsButNotPCs Preview
    The accuracy...

    Also, for the record, I love the direction Windows 10 is heading. It remains to be seen how the RTM release will fare on touchscreen devices, but MS is making some good decisions.

    For instance, high resolution screens are becoming the norm. This is why smaller fonts make a lot more sense now than they did at the time of WP7. On 720/768/1080/1440p displays there is absolutely no reason the font used in the Hubs has to be so large; it's a waste of space.

    I'm divided on the hamburger menus being on top of the display, I'd much rather they be at the bottom so the phone doesn't need to be readjusted all the time in the hand, but it's not the worst decision ever.

    On PCs I like the new start menu. The smaller live tiles on the start menu are FINE. A tile doesn't have to take over half the screen to be called a tile. Maximizing screen space for hi-dpi displays is good; it's more efficient.

    It's a Preview, OP. This is why there is a feedback app. Tell them what you don't like instead of complaining here on the forums. Even if they don't include it by W10 RTM, they might in 10.1 or whatever is the next major upgrade. Complaining never solved anything.
    05-18-2015 01:44 PM
  5. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Why do you hate Windows 8?

    Most people's "hatred" can be fixed in 60 seconds with "ClassicShell" or "start8"
    Windows is very flexible, I often tweak it to my liking.

    Install one of those utilities and voila. A more efficient, speedier, improved Windows 7 with a different theme.
    As an IT professional, I have showed Windows 8 to a bunch of people over the last year or so and I am going to say about 70% of them didn't like it at all, found it not very user friendly, and was difficult to navigate. And it was a common complaint on it, MOST people.

    Ok, you say BS, I use it and it is easy to use but, we are talking about a little older people, 40-60 yea olds and use Windows XP or 7 all the time. And I will agree with them for the most part. It's ok on a tablet (a lot better than Windows 7 on a tablet) but, on a desktop with a keyboard and mouse it sucks, even with the 8.1 updates.

    And adding a 3rd party option to put a start menu back is just like hacking the system for something Microsoft should of had in place alone. Even though I tried it, it always felt like a addon and didn't like that. Why do that when I can use Windows 7 and it works just as well ?

    Let's just say, I was triple booting my primary drive with Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10, so I moved to a smaller SSD (480gb from a 1tb 7200rpm drive), so 1 OS had to go, and after about 5 min, the OS I used the least was Windows 8.1, that got demoted to a VM, and I think over a month now, I have booted that VM up once.

    How usable it is on a tablet is one thing but, Windows 10 is everything Windows 8.1 SHOULD of been. Microsoft learned their lesion, sales did not do good for 8.1, the global numbers prove that.

    Anyway about it, Windows 10 is looking pretty good so far, just wishing Windows Media Center came back with it but, my twitter slams against Microsoft on this subject is not even close to being done on this subject...

    At least 2-3 machines in my home will be sticking with Windows 7.....if no WMC... the ONLY reason I will put it on my gaming machine is because of DirectX 12, if not I would stick with Win 10 due to WMC...
    05-18-2015 02:01 PM
  6. Bubblefat's Avatar
    This is why I've made no complaints about how buggy it seems, and it seems much more buggy than any preview version of Win8 I used, or things like colour schemes, which I know are up for improvement down the line. I'm really only talking about the core functionality, which I feel is unlikely to get any drastic overhaul before release. e.g. I can't see them reverting to the Charms Bar at this stage, can you? To me it feels fundamentally flawed and I can't see any of what I hate about it being fixed before release.

    Also, WTF!?! Why is anyone here talking about ******* phones? Seriously, how hard is it for you to go and talk about that on the W10 for phones forum?
    But you did complain. You pointed out the maximize/minimize feature being unreachable. That's a bug. Stop being entitled.
    Jazmac likes this.
    05-18-2015 02:37 PM
  7. Jakoh's Avatar
    The biggest problem with Win 8 is the disconnect between Start menu and desktop. I feel "Trapped" in the new start menu.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-18-2015 02:51 PM
  8. tgp's Avatar
    I'm divided on the hamburger menus being on top of the display, I'd much rather they be at the bottom so the phone doesn't need to be readjusted all the time in the hand, but it's not the worst decision ever.
    Just a comment on this particular item: I don't know why on WP the hamburger menu has to be tapped. On Android, you can swipe in from anywhere on the side it's on to open it. It doesn't make any difference if the hamburger is at the top or the bottom of the screen. I would think that WP could do the same, or is there a limitation somewhere?

    Swipe to open isn't a perfect solution though; you still need to reach up if the menu item you want is towards the top. But, it certainly helps!
    05-18-2015 02:58 PM
  9. KhawarNadeem's Avatar
    Just a comment on this particular item: I don't know why on WP the hamburger menu has to be tapped. On Android, you can swipe in from anywhere on the side it's on to open it. It doesn't make any difference if the hamburger is at the top or the bottom of the screen. I would think that WP could do the same, or is there a limitation somewhere?

    Swipe to open isn't a perfect solution though; you still need to reach up if the menu item you want is towards the top. But, it certainly helps!
    I agree. But it's either swipe to expand menu or swipe to navigate between tabs (see the new Onedrive app for example). Otherwise there would be a lot of accidental openings/swipes and no one would be happy. While I do think they should have just shrunk down Modern UI to have a larger appeal to people who don't like the WP8 style. I think swiping from top or bottom to open the menu is much more convenient for one hand use, while side swipes can be used to change music tracks and navigate tabs.

    But I'm not a design expert. Just stating what feels better to me. MS knows better, I guess.
    tgp likes this.
    05-18-2015 03:12 PM
  10. theolympusguy's Avatar
    Loved windows 7, hated windows 8, loved windows 8.1 and now I love windows 10. I love the way it runs and feels on my surface pro and most of all I love how we have a desktop and a tablet version. Both seem and feel right to me. Not everyone will always be happy and that is fine but it is beta and more will still change I am sure. I hope they don't change to much as far as UI because I have really become adjusted to it.
    05-18-2015 03:26 PM
  11. tgp's Avatar
    I agree. But it's either swipe to expand menu or swipe to navigate between tabs (see the new Onedrive app for example). Otherwise there would be a lot of accidental openings/swipes and no one would be happy. While I do think they should have just shrunk down Modern UI to have a larger appeal to people who don't like the WP8 style. I think swiping from top or bottom to open the menu is much more convenient for one hand use, while side swipes can be used to change music tracks and navigate tabs.

    But I'm not a design expert. Just stating what feels better to me. MS knows better, I guess.
    Valid points on accidental swipes. But even that can be overcome. As an example from Android, on the Google Now screen you can swipe away individual cards. You do that by swiping when your thumb/finger is pretty much anywhere on the card. But if you go to the very edge of the screen and swipe in (from the bezel), it opens the hamburger menu. The distinction is very natural once you know how it works.

    I would think that something like this could be implemented on WP; swiping from the screen vs. from the bezel.
    KhawarNadeem likes this.
    05-18-2015 03:33 PM
  12. KhawarNadeem's Avatar
    Valid points on accidental swipes. But even that can be overcome. As an example from Android, on the Google Now screen you can swipe away individual cards. You do that by swiping when your thumb/finger is pretty much anywhere on the card. But if you go to the very edge of the screen and swipe in (from the bezel), it opens the hamburger menu. The distinction is very natural once you know how it works.

    I would think that something like this could be implemented on WP; swiping from the screen vs. from the bezel.
    Yes! And it would be a whole lot better too since a lot of WP devices have that curved-at-the-edges glass which is a dream to swipe on. It would be very comfortable, and it's actually surprising Microsoft isn't doing that. Are there any feedbacks/uservoices for it?
    05-18-2015 03:37 PM
  13. Tepid's Avatar
    Win10 is going in the right direction.
    There are some annoyances, but there always are.
    Win10 for Phone is friggin awesome also.

    I like Win8, Win10 is way better.
    Jazmac likes this.
    05-18-2015 04:29 PM
  14. ScrubbyXD's Avatar
    Reasons I hate Windows 10:

    It has an awful lot of bugs for a per-release product. I should be perfect or they will ruin consumer confidence.
    I loved Charms and they should have been increased in size, not removed.
    They are using the number 10 as opposed to the roman numeral X. Windows X would have sounded cooler. And It could have come with Ray Bans.
    While my colors are less faded it does not get my whites as white when it does my laundry.
    Still no snapchat.
    Metro was better, especially with mouse and keyboard.
    They want to update my computer, I want to ignore updates for months because I cannot be bothered to reboot.
    It kicked my dog.
    It's taking too long to come out. Yes I know I do not want it, but still...
    Cortana does not say my name correctly.
    I don't want anyone related to Bill Gates in my office! Ask Cortana she will admit who her father is!
    It runs everquest poorly. I've been playing it for 15 years or more and now it's won't run?! What am I supposed to do? Move on? Is Warhammer Online still around?
    05-18-2015 06:54 PM
  15. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    Well, with windows 10 they have gone back to the desktop and that is really down to enterprise customers. Windows 8 is far too alien in terms of UI for said customers plus 8.1 came a bit to late. Installing programs like classic shell is not an option for most large corps.
    See, that's just completely wrong. Win8 left the Desktop alone, it was almost exactly like Win7, whereas Win10 has tried to hybridise the desktop with the "metro" experience, ruining both.
    The power off menu was hidden inside settings! settings of all places lol....
    No, it wasn't. It was in the Charms Bar, which is where you go to do stuff in Win8. You'd discover it the first time you wanted to connect to Wi-Fi or hook up a second monitor or do anything else. Or, as has been the case for more than a decade, you could simply use the power button on your PC to shut down.
    Wasn't the Charms bar the universally hated aspect of Windows 8? Now that it's going away with 10 now it appears to be universally loved.
    I think it was just something with a stupid name that reviewers could poke fun at. I don't recall reading anyone saying that it was actually bad or useless or anything. As an alternative to the System Tray, I think it is brilliant, whether you are using it on a desktop or not. That's the thing for me, I use Win8 on the desktop probably 80% of the time and I love it. It makes everything so much easier than it has ever been.
    Why do you hate Windows 8?
    Most people's "hatred" can be fixed in 60 seconds with "ClassicShell" or "start8"
    Windows is very flexible, I often tweak it to my liking.
    Install one of those utilities and voila. A more efficient, speedier, improved Windows 7 with a different theme.
    I'm sorry but that is simply ridiculous. Nothing is faster/easier/better than the Windows 8 Start Screen. Everything else requires far more scrolling and clicking to get to what you want. e.g. With the old (and new) Start Menus, you are limited to being able to see 14 pinned applications, at best, and anything else will require endless clicking and scrolling in a tiny window. OTOH, with the Start Screen I can see up to 105 application icons without the need to click or scroll anywhere, either organised to my own liking or in an elegant alphabetical list. Nothing is hidden inside folders, absolutely everything is just a single click away.
    I have the bug where opening an app in landscape mode will have it occupy only the top half of the screen in portrait mode in 8.1. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. So I wouldn't blame that on Windows 10
    Where? I've been using Win8 for more than 3 years now and never encountered that, even once. OTOH, it happens 100% of the time in W10.
    Why wait? Get back to Windows 8 right now and make yourself happy. Sheeesh, how tough can it be to make a simple decision? Why does everybody have to know in every post you do how unsatisfied you are with Windows 10? This complaining about a wholly voluntary process is so infantile I have a good mind to send a note home pinned to your shirt.
    Why have a forum at all, then? What's the good of it if we aren't all free to share our experiences, positive or negative? You need to grow up.
    I think this guy's base problem is he bought a "used tablet" off eBay. Used signifies that it could be anywhere from 1 week old to 3 years old. I hope he doesn't expect older hardware to perform on a completely new OS. But, in all honestly, he probably does.
    It is an as-new 10" Yoga 2 Tablet, someone else's unwanted gift, not some ratty old piece of junk. In any event, have you seen me mention performance at all? No. As you rightly point out, it is not something I can judge on a tablet I've not really used with Win8. Trouble is, W10 won't install on my Thinkpad 8 so this was the next best solution. (I plan on selling it or the Thinkpad 8 once I've decided which I prefer.)
    But seriously, no reason to complain about hating windows 10 right now. It's still not representative of the final release.
    Of course it is, unless you think they are still likely to ditch the Notification Centre and return to the Charms Bar? Or decide that all the work they've done ruining the Start Screen has been wasted and go back to the old one? Those things are set in stone, all they are going to do between now and release is fiddle at the edges. It's the difference between alpha and beta.
    Ok, you say BS, I use it and it is easy to use but, we are talking about a little older people, 40-60 yea olds and use Windows XP or 7 all the time.
    That would be me. I'm 56 and took to the first preview build of Win8 like a duck to water. It was brilliant from the very first session, addressing all the things that bugged me in Vista and Win7. OK, I'll admit the Start button was still there at the time but it went back in with the very first Win8 update, after just a few months. Since that time, everything else they have done to try and placate moronic users has made it progressively worse. 8.1 is measurably more frustrating and annoying than 8.0, with title bars and taskbars popping up when you are trying to access the Charms Bar or an ellipsis menu. It's annoying as hell.
    And I will agree with them for the most part. It's ok on a tablet (a lot better than Windows 7 on a tablet) but, on a desktop with a keyboard and mouse it sucks, even with the 8.1 updates.
    Why? Windows 8 on the desktop is EXACTLY the same as Windows 7. You click with your left button, your right button or your middle button and you scroll with the scroll wheel and you get EXACTLY the same result you would in XP, Vista or W7. Ditto for keyboard use.

    Actually, that's not completely fair because there are a lot of things that are MUCH BETTER in W8 than they were in previous builds. e.g. More keyboard shortcuts, like WIN+X, better Task Manager and far deeper integration of search. But if you want to keep using W8 like you do W7, you can because everything that was in W7 is still there in W8, in exactly the same place. Once they put the Start Button back, everything was easy again.
    How usable it is on a tablet is one thing but
    But the thing is, it is far better with keyboard and mouse than it is with touch, yet everyone seems to assume it is the other way around. You can't point to one thing that is harder on the W8 desktop than it was on XP, Vista or W7. Everything is the same or easier. Go on, try and find one thing that was easier on W7. You can't because there isn't anything.
    But you did complain. You pointed out the maximize/minimize feature being unreachable. That's a bug. Stop being entitled.
    That's not a bug, it's a usability issue. I mentioned it to point out the stupidity of treating metro apps the same as desktop applications.
    Loved windows 7, hated windows 8, loved windows 8.1 and now I love windows 10. I love the way it runs and feels on my surface pro and most of all I love how we have a desktop and a tablet version. Both seem and feel right to me. Not everyone will always be happy and that is fine but it is beta and more will still change I am sure. I hope they don't change to much as far as UI because I have really become adjusted to it.
    So do apps transition from portrait to landscape properly for you? If not, then you are full of **** because that is completely broken. As for the desktop, I'd love to hear your explanation as to how it is much better to have to scroll through a list of all your installed software, rather than have it displayed full screen so you can go straight to the app/application you want. Because I really can't see how click-click-scroll-scroll-scroll-click is better than click-click-click.
    I like Win8, Win10 is way better.
    How? Give me a few examples because I'm just not seeing it. Every change I see makes things worse.
    SirThoreth likes this.
    05-18-2015 09:43 PM
  16. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    OK, the post above is really long but I just want to ask you guys what it is that you like about W10 and, most importantly, WHY. What is it that I am not seeing here? e.g. Why is the W10 Start Menu better than the W8 Start Screen? Please be specific, as I have tried to be. I just want to understand why Microsoft would be doing all of this because, from what I've experienced myself, it all seems to be getting worse and worse, both for touch and for desktop use.
    Yazen, Joshwin, SirThoreth and 1 others like this.
    05-18-2015 09:48 PM
  17. Yazen's Avatar
    +1520
    Everything the OP said. Ironically, every qualm with Windows 10 is what the average consumer / biased reviewer demanded...

    Tablets are tablets. Microsoft had it right with Windows RT.
    SirThoreth likes this.
    05-18-2015 10:34 PM
  18. Yazen's Avatar
    OK, the post above is really long but I just want to ask you guys what it is that you like about W10 and, most importantly, WHY. What is it that I am not seeing here? e.g. Why is the W10 Start Menu better than the W8 Start Screen? Please be specific, as I have tried to be. I just want to understand why Microsoft would be doing all of this because, from what I've experienced myself, it all seems to be getting worse and worse, both for touch and for desktop use.
    Imagine WinRT replacements for every desktop app (Win32)...
    Imagine having the Xbox Music app as the default music player loooooool

    Apps are nice for phones and tablets, however desktops require more sophisticated software.
    05-18-2015 10:41 PM
  19. hotphil's Avatar
    There's very little I need desktop applications for these days.
    Yazen likes this.
    05-18-2015 10:46 PM
  20. Yazen's Avatar
    There's very little I need desktop applications for these days.
    So assuming you purchased a relatively expensive desktop, you would prefer to use apps? XD

    I can understand if you own a tablet, but c'mon... People who buy desktops in 2015 are power users!

    Tbh the Zune Desktop player from 2009 works much better than the latest version of Xbox Music... I'm sure there are others who will vouch for me
    DavidinCT and 920Walker like this.
    05-18-2015 10:53 PM
  21. hotphil's Avatar
    Yep... I have nearly all the tools to manage multiple estates servers, workstations etc in browsers or apps. I can do most productivity stuff, analysis etc in Office Preview (other than some complex stuff here and there). There's some stuff I still reach for desktop programs though (SSMS, PowerShell) just out of habit really.
    The modern apps look better. And I like to dogfood them.​
    05-18-2015 11:09 PM
  22. hotphil's Avatar
    But yes, XBM isn't a good example of how to do an app. Anything but. It makes me sadder than when Zayn left.
    05-18-2015 11:15 PM
  23. ntice_521's Avatar
    Just a general comment about Win10...IMHO it's the roughest beta that Microsoft has ever widely released. And given the aggressive release schedule, the "final" version is going to be rough too. Well, I hope not but fear it will be so.
    05-18-2015 11:20 PM
  24. Jazmac's Avatar
    "Why have a forum at all, then? What's the good of it if we aren't all free to share our experiences, positive or negative? You need to grow up."
    I would discuss with you in grown up terms but like Windows 10, it would be over your head like the bridge trolls typically live under. You don't even get the purpose of "the forum". The question is NOT about why have a forum at all but your inane comments about an OS still under development and how you think any of the comments you've made is in any way productive. All you've done is complain like a brat in soiled diapers. This is OS as I mentioned before YOU DON'T even have to use if it is so distasteful. Its is going to do what it does so either get with the program or return to your spot under your bridge and stay there.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-19-2015 12:27 AM
  25. Slovenix's Avatar
    I think it's good, majority of people I know / read on the internet prefer the desktop on W7. Desktop is a desktop for me. I like running "modern" apps on it, but it's a no way to replace desktop programs and their look. Especially people just don't like the tiles and say they look fugly (I'm almost the only one who uses W8.1 apps on my PC), yet to be honest it got really annoying after I started using my PC for work. I rather pin modern apps to the desktop and enjoy their more desktop look now.
    05-19-2015 12:49 AM
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