06-06-2015 11:12 PM
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  1. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    I am not getting in a trolling battle with you, slamming people because of their choice here.
    That's not trolling.
    With this being said, why do you need someone to "convince" you ?
    Because this is the last version of Windows EVER so it seems somewhat inevitable that I will have to live with it for many years. I'd rather be happy about that, instead of constantly fighting with it for the rest of my working life.
    If you don't like it, fine, understand it's a unfinished beta product.
    I understand that completely, probably better than you do. That's why now is the perfect time to be having these kinds of discussions. I'll be doing exactly the same at the Build event in Sydney next week.
    When it's released to RTM, try it again, if you STILL don't like it then stick with Windows 8.1.
    Unfortunately, I am unable to roll back to 8.1 so I am stuck with it on my tablet for the foreseeable future (or until I go and buy a boxed version of Win8 on DVD so I can do a clean install from scratch).
    Windows 10 looks like the MERGE of the best of Windows 7 with the Best of 8.1, now if they can get the tablet mode fixed up a bit, then it just might be.
    Where is the impetus to do that when everyone is saying how wonderful it all is? Nothing will get fixed if people don't speak up about how unspeakably bad it all is at the moment. I'd also suggest your description of the best of 7 & 8 is way off the mark, as the W10 desktop is very different to W7, whereas the W8 desktop is almost exactly the same. I see it as taking all the worst features of W7 and getting rid of what made W8 so much better.
    I can see how 8.1 LOVERS would be a little disappointed in it.
    Interestingly, I think 8.1 is also deeply flawed. The best version of W8 was right after the first update, when they put the Start button back. Everything they have done since then has been one step forward, two steps back. e.g. Several times a day I go to open the ellipsis menu in IE and the stupid taskbar pops up and blocks my access for several seconds. It is infuriating when you are in a hurry because you are forced to be really precise.
    920Walker likes this.
    05-27-2015 09:20 PM
  2. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    It is broken, and the new features are overshadowed by major rollbacks of inspired Windows 8 features. All these aged users wanted was the damned start menu. not a rollback o the entire feature set. The same happened to Windows Phone. Horrendous.
    Actually, I really like what they are doing with W10 Mobile, hamburger menus aside. In fact, as of today W10 mobile is on my daily driver (Lumia 925). I love the changes to the Start Screen, I am impressed with the way they have cleaned up the Settings app (search is a very clever addition), I'm OK with the smaller fonts and I really like how they have beefed up apps like Alarms and Calculator. Stability is not the best right now, but as everyone knows, it's still in beta and it is solid enough for general use (I'm not a big phone user so I can live with occasional crashes).
    05-27-2015 09:29 PM
  3. mj0's Avatar
    Well, mine definitely doesn't. What build are you on? (I'm on the one that was released last week.)
    I'm rather conservative when it comes to software so I'm not a fan of the fast ring. Therefore, I'm running build 10074.

    But I don't want my tablet to never go to sleep, I need it to conserve battery life. It's just that when I wake it up, I don't want to have to re-enter my password. In fact, I don't know how I ever let it trick me into using a password at all.
    This setting isn't for when your tablet goes to sleep, that's a completely different thing. This one is for how long it'll wait to ask you for your password again. You can set it to "Never", meaning it'll never ask for your password upon wakeup from sleep.
    05-28-2015 12:58 AM
  4. Protocol Rahul's Avatar
    Wow. This is amazing. You just complain for the sake of complaining without even thinking about the usability of features. Using Charms to go back to start screen is worst way of doing it. Why?

    When you use charms to go back to start screen, you use a swipe and a click. Which is two actions to accomplish a simple task.

    Solution
    1) For laptop use the windows button on the keyboard and with a single click/press you are on the start screen
    2) For tablet also click on windows hardware button on the tablet and with a single click/press you are on the start screen.
    I wasn't complaining, I was just stating my displeasure. Read my post again. Using Touch Enable Laptop, not convertible, not the one where screen pops out/or flips. My point being, having tablet mode doesn't mean you need to have a tablet to use it. Thus, I was using in my lap, using touch to navigate, it feels awkward having to use smaller windows logo(even smaller because of the resolution) to access start screen, where once in win 8 I was able to access start screen with a swipe. (and you may come up with some other "solution", but no thanks.)
    05-28-2015 01:08 AM
  5. excalibur1814's Avatar
    If we all stop posting this thread will eventually vanish! There are valid points from the OP but, you know, having this at the top of the darn forum each day is hurting the image of Windows 10. Good or bad it doesn't, yet, deserve it.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-28-2015 05:06 AM
  6. Yazen's Avatar
    If we all stop posting this thread will eventually vanish! There are valid points from the OP but, you know, having this at the top of the darn forum each day is hurting the image of Windows 10. Good or bad it doesn't, yet, deserve it.
    So as Microsoft fanboys we are supposed to be consistently biased and support their products regardless of any concerns we may have? :^)

    Microsoft is too far in development to rethink it's UI paradigm... OPs reasons to hate W10 will likely hold valid even after RTM is shipped
    ScubaDog and 920Walker like this.
    05-28-2015 01:10 PM
  7. AndyCalling's Avatar
    It is clear that, currently, things are not quite going to plan for MS so we need to speak up. For example, we were told that W10 with Continuum would seamlessly sense whether we were using mouse and keyboard or touch and switch from Metro mode to desktop mode and back without the need for user intervention. Very key, since W8 is completely seamless in this regard. What do we see today? We have to delve into the settings every time we want to launch (or even switch to!) a desktop app in desktop mode then do the same fannying around if we want to launch/switch to a Metro app in Metro touch mode. But wait it's worse than that because, astonishingly, if we want to switch from a desktop app in desktop mode back to the start screen in Metro touch mode we have to delve into the settings to switch over yet again! They couldn't make it more painful unless they came round to your house and installed pins on your keyboard. Clearly the MS Continuum vision is not panning out. They desperately need some help from someone, who better than WC members? (Good grief, that sounds more like 'Lavatory Cocks' every time... How have we ended up with such a laughable forum name? It makes us sound like a society for cottaging enthusiasts. Is there going to be a sister tech site called 'IP Daily'?).
    Last edited by AndyCalling; 05-28-2015 at 01:59 PM.
    05-28-2015 01:23 PM
  8. ScubaDog's Avatar
    And you DO realize that we're talking more about the DESIGN, FEATURES and USER EXPERIENCE than the bugs, right? Call it "beta" all you want. That doesn't change the fact that their design choices suck compared to Windows 8.
    05-28-2015 03:56 PM
  9. ScubaDog's Avatar
    Actually, I'm doing everything I can to hurt the image of Windows 10. Heaven knows all the lamebrains who hated on Windows 8 did the same. Turnabout is fair play.
    05-28-2015 04:01 PM
  10. Otto Gunter's Avatar
    I absolutely HATE clickbait posts
    05-28-2015 06:17 PM
  11. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    The policy setting still exists right where it was in Windows 8.1 as well: PC settings - Accounts - Sign-in options. I've had mine set to 15 minutes automatically after creating the local user, no idea what went wrong in your case.
    The only options here are to change password, add a PIN or use a picture password. There is a link at the bottom to lock screen settings, then from there to timeout settings but nowhere is there an option about passwords. The "Password Policy" setting from W8.1 is gone in Build 10122.
    05-28-2015 07:40 PM
  12. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    If we all stop posting this thread will eventually vanish! There are valid points from the OP but, you know, having this at the top of the darn forum each day is hurting the image of Windows 10. Good or bad it doesn't, yet, deserve it.
    Here's an even better idea - show us why we are wrong. Every time I have asked for specifics on what makes this or that good/bad, I've got nothing back. That tells me that nobody has any specifics to share, they just like Windows 10 because it isn't Windows 8, which is the way two-year-olds think.
    Kram Sacul and 920Walker like this.
    05-28-2015 08:07 PM
  13. KyleOsborne148's Avatar
    Honestly it feels a step backwards for me as well, using it in tablet mode and trying to use desktop applications is a non-existent nightmare AT THE MOMENT, I stress that so people dont jump on me and tell me it's unfinished. I know that... Other than that I agree with you the vertical scrolling app draw I dont like either. I miss the charms bar as this was very handy on windows 8.1, it seems awkward to get to the individual settings of each app now but I prefer the way notifications are handled. And wtf there is no brightness slider anymore I get 3 options to my brightness level that seems stupid imo
    920Walker likes this.
    05-29-2015 11:12 AM
  14. theefman's Avatar
    So as Microsoft fanboys we are supposed to be consistently biased and support their products regardless of any concerns we may have? :^)

    Kind of puts that whole "isheep" thing in perspective, at least they are supporting a company that's actually successful in the mobile market......
    Yazen and DavidinCT like this.
    05-29-2015 11:39 AM
  15. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Kind of puts that whole "isheep" thing in perspective, at least they are supporting a company that's actually successful in the mobile market......
    That sounds like a US comment to me. It sounds odd to hear that stuff whilst surrounded by Windows phones here in the UK. :)~
    920Walker likes this.
    05-29-2015 11:50 AM
  16. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Here's an even better idea - show us why we are wrong. Every time I have asked for specifics on what makes this or that good/bad, I've got nothing back. That tells me that nobody has any specifics to share, they just like Windows 10 because it isn't Windows 8, which is the way two-year-olds think.
    That's easy, just few things: Start menu, windowed apps, vertical scrolling, the charm-bar-non-sense is dead, app controls directly on the app. Notifications. Cortana. Hello. Universal store.

    Windows 8 was a piece of **. Windows 10 is pretty good.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-29-2015 02:07 PM
  17. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    What does "Start menu" tell anyone? Nothing. Because if you ask me what is the no. one best thing about Windows 8, I'd give precisely the same answer. Therefore, by extrapolation, if you think it's one of the worst things, then Windows 8 must actually be a lot better than even I realise. It says what, not why. So to make it easier, I will ask some more specific questions for you to answer, if you feel up to it.

    1. What do you like or not like about the Start Screen in Windows 8 and how do you feel it is improved in Windows 10?

    2. What is the advantage of windowed apps over full-screen apps?

    3. Why is vertical scrolling preferable to horizontal scrolling, particularly on the desktop where our screens are horizontally oriented?

    4. What do you mean by "app controls directly on the app"? Where were they before?

    5. What is good about "Notifications"? (I've turned them off for everything because they distract/annoy me when I'm working.)

    6. What's so good about Cortana? (I really don't get it at all. I've switched it off on my phone so I can see the Image of the Day again and I am much happier.)

    7. Why would you buy 3rd party software from Microsoft? Surely you'll be able to get it cheaper elsewhere?
    920Walker and Brandon Tobias like this.
    05-29-2015 10:23 PM
  18. colinkiama's Avatar
    What does "Start menu" tell anyone? Nothing. Because if you ask me what is the no. one best thing about Windows 8, I'd give precisely the same answer. Therefore, by extrapolation, if you think it's one of the worst things, then Windows 8 must actually be a lot better than even I realise. It says what, not why. So to make it easier, I will ask some more specific questions for you to answer, if you feel up to it.

    1. What do you like or not like about the Start Screen in Windows 8 and how do you feel it is improved in Windows 10?

    2. What is the advantage of windowed apps over full-screen apps?

    3. Why is vertical scrolling preferable to horizontal scrolling, particularly on the desktop where our screens are horizontally oriented?

    4. What do you mean by "app controls directly on the app"? Where were they before?

    5. What is good about "Notifications"? (I've turned them off for everything because they distract/annoy me when I'm working.)

    6. What's so good about Cortana? (I really don't get it at all. I've switched it off on my phone so I can see the Image of the Day again and I am much happier.)

    7. Why would you buy 3rd party software from Microsoft? Surely you'll be able to get it cheaper elsewhere?
    Everyone really should stop complaining. It's windows you can just fiddle with the settings and registries and get the old windows 8 experience back. Except the charms though, they are dead now
    Harrie-S and Brandon Tobias like this.
    05-30-2015 10:44 AM
  19. mj0's Avatar
    The only options here are to change password, add a PIN or use a picture password. There is a link at the bottom to lock screen settings, then from there to timeout settings but nowhere is there an option about passwords. The "Password Policy" setting from W8.1 is gone in Build 10122.
    That's weird. I have just updated from 10074 to 10130 and the option is still there, although it is now at the very top of that page, not the bottom anymore.
    05-30-2015 10:57 AM
  20. Byrese's Avatar
    Seriously. From everything I'd seen, I didn't think it was going to be much good but I decided to install it and give it a whirl before making my mind up. So I bought a used tablet from eBay and installed it yesterday, only to discover it is so much worse than I thought it would be. OK, it's only been 36 hours or so but I haven't found so much as a single thing about it that feels better than Windows 8. It is all worse. Terrible, even.

    Firstly, they seem to have completely destroyed the tablet experience. And I mean completely destroyed. When you open an app in landscape mode and turn the tablet into a portrait orientation, the app only takes up the top half of the screen and you can't reach the maximise/restore button in the top-right corner. You have to restart the app to get it back to full screen. Interestingly, when you go the other way, you can hit the maximise button and it will go properly full-screen and behave normally from that point on but that is hardly a great UX. I also hate vertical scrolling in the Start Menu and in apps, although that's just a personal preference, I suppose. But what is a real issue is not knowing where the scrolling area on the Start Menu starts. In portrait mode the dead area is almost half the width of the screen. Again, it is extremely poor UX design and frustrating as hell to use.

    Getting rid of the Charms Bar, which was beautifully designed, and replacing it with the ugly and oversized Notification Centre is also a bad choice, especially the way it is connected to items in the new, oversized System Tray.

    Now that we see apps alongside everything else on the Desktop, how are we supposed to know what's an app and what's a proper desktop application? Without the distinction, useless apps like Photoshop Express seem like a complete waste of disk space. To be fair, they probably are but it's not going to help sell the overall experience when you can't tell what is going to have good, responsive UI design and what is only going to work in the traditional desktop way.

    I'm going to persevere until after the next build, because that seems to have some good features, but if the overall experience doesn't start to gel for me, I'll be back on Windows 8 for good.
    I haven't checked it a lot of stuff about W10 other than a few videos. One thing I agree with you on is the discontinuation of the charm bar. Big mistake. I love that thing... It's so intuitive.
    05-30-2015 11:03 AM
  21. Joe920's Avatar
    Firstly, they seem to have completely destroyed the tablet experience.
    In my quest to save Windows 10 I made a mockup of the settings panel that would fix my main niggles with the UI in general and tablet mode specifically. Not sure if there's a chance they'd add something like this, but who knows. See this poll.
    05-30-2015 06:33 PM
  22. Kazekage1981's Avatar
    This may be an odd question, but when will there be a Windows 10 Consumer Preview? Windows 8 had a technical preview and then a consumer preview. We are still in technical Previews and Windows 10 is going to be released soon in late July, or maybe mid August. For the OP, well at least you got the start menu back, don't forget a new browser 'ms edge', under the hood improvements, continuum, direct x 12, cortona integration, and pretty soon an option to switch on aero/transparency from windows 7. You should voice your opinion in MS Suggestion/Feedback website. Also, how much OS footprint does MS 10 use? I heard Windows 8.1 uses less than 256MB of RAM for basic functions while Windows 7 used 512MB or more.

    Also if you guys don't mind, please go to MS Suggestion Website and ask for the following suggestions:

    -DIGITAL PEN to be standard in Windows 10 tablets, Windows 10 Mobile, All in one touch screen desktop PCs, touch laptops with 2048 levels of pressure and 1:1 touch with NO lag.

    -Blu-Ray R/RW ultraslim disk drives in desktops, laptops. I am still baffled in OEMs still putting in these useless DVD R/RW drives. Yes I know most people do streaming like Xbox Video, Netflix, HuluPlus, but most people have really low connections and at best can get 720p. 1080p Blu-Ray is simply gorgeous.

    -USB 3.0 Type C for Mobile Phones/Tablets for power source and connectivity instead of Micro-USB.

    -A mini Kinect technology implemented in Desktops/Laptops/Tablets/Mobile Phone. Kinect technology working with the built in camera in some way shape or form. Its like combining xbox one Kinect with playstation camera/eye

    -USB 2.0 or 3.0 port for mini windows tablets that are competing with IPAD and Android tablets. IPAD and Android Tablets do not have that except for miniusb for power usage. Current windows tablets do no have that either except the winbook brand. Seriously? No USB? Come on, make it a standard!

    920Walker likes this.
    05-30-2015 06:54 PM
  23. cool8man's Avatar
    I've tried and tried and tried in good faith to get Windows 10 to be useable on my tablets and there's just no way to pretend this is an improvement over Windows 8.1 on any level. Windows 10 right now is more than just "so bad I can't use it," it's at a level of "So bad I can't let anyone I care about use it." I'm literally here in May planning which Windows 8 tablets I'm going to give to friends and family for Christmas that will get them past having to use Windows 10 for the next few years.
    920Walker and theefman like this.
    05-30-2015 07:25 PM
  24. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    Yeah, I am in pretty much the same boat. To me it is easily the worst version of Windows I have ever used. It is doing my head in more than Vista did, when they arbitrarily decided to rename and re-order everything in Control Panel.
    Everyone really should stop complaining. It's windows you can just fiddle with the settings and registries and get the old windows 8 experience back. Except the charms though, they are dead now
    Why should anyone have to go to those lengths, just to get a usable experience? That's what I hate about Linux - I don't want to have to faff about getting a usable computer, I just want to switch it on and get to work. An OS should just get the hell out of my way, not build roadblocks at every intersection to stop me from getting anywhere.
    05-30-2015 08:43 PM
  25. 920Walker's Avatar
    I've been following this thread and have mixed emotions about 8, 8.1 and 10, which are all used strictly at home. 7 gets used at work. 8.1 is used 90% of the time at home and would be my preferred OS at work. 10 is used for dabbling with the fast ring. The reason for sticking with 8.1: it is the future, an elegant one, yet soon to be the past. Hold on to those you endear.

    I hope 10 grows on me eventually to become the future, because using the past as the final Windows OS for eternity will be mediocre. It will be an ah ha moment. It's just not there yet.

    The OP has posted legitimate reasons in full detail for not preferring 10 and I applaud his attitude in response to the other variety of haters.
    Laura Knotek and Kram Sacul like this.
    05-30-2015 10:54 PM
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