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06-06-2015 11:12 PM
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  1. cool8man's Avatar
    I'm cognizant of the fact that I don't want to come across as one of those people who hates something just because it's changing. I'll use a specific example (one of many I could provide) where the continuing direction of the OS makes things more difficult and has no reasonable justification. In Windows 8 controls like power and search were hidden in charms. Users complained gestures/hot-corners were not discoverable so for Windows 8.1 they built these buttons directly into the start screen so everyone could easily find them and they enabled mouse users to turn off hot corners if they wanted. In Windows 10 they have now taken the power, account, and apps list buttons that were directly on the Windows 8.1 start screen and buried them under a hamburger menu at the top of the start menu. In addition they removed the gestures and hot corners option for everyone, even if they enjoyed using them in Windows 8. There is no way to defend these types of decisions as improvements or as making the OS easier to use.

    It seems to me like the designers on the Windows team believe the answer to every problem is a hamburger menu. Power and apps list buttons are cluttering the start menu = put it in a hamburger menu. We don't know where to put the charms controls for old Windows 8 apps = put it in a tiny hidden hamburger button (that's like 3 levels of obfuscation). Users aren't discovering the app commands bar in Windows 8 apps = design all new apps with a hamburger menu. Windows 10 isn't just forcing frustratingly hard to hit menu buttons on users, but it's also actively hostile against any gesture usage. As unattractive as it might be I could potentially learn to live with the overabundance of hamburger menus in every crevice and corner of the OS if there was actually support for gestures to open every one of these dumb mystery meat menus. Mind you there is no actual study that supports the idea that hiding functionality inside of hamburger menus actually increases discoverability.
    Last edited by cool8man; 05-31-2015 at 12:39 PM.
    05-31-2015 12:15 PM
  2. Brandon Tobias's Avatar
    I'm cognizant of the fact that I don't want to come across as one of those people who hates something just because it's changing. I'll use a specific example (one of many I could provide) where the continuing direction of the OS makes things more difficult and has no reasonable justification. In Windows 8 controls like power and search were hidden in charms. Users complained gestures/hot-corners were not discoverable so for Windows 8.1 they built these buttons directly into the start screen so everyone could easily find them and they enabled mouse users to turn off hot corners if they wanted. In Windows 10 they have now taken the power, account, and apps list buttons that were directly on the Windows 8.1 start screen and buried them under a hamburger menu at the top of the start menu. In addition they removed the gestures and hot corners option for everyone, even if they enjoyed using them in Windows 8. There is no way to defend these types of decisions as improvements or as making the OS easier to use.

    It seems to me like the designers on the Windows team believe the answer to every problem is a hamburger menu. Power and apps list buttons are cluttering the start menu = put it in a hamburger menu. We don't know where to put the charms controls for old Windows 8 apps = put it in a tiny hidden hamburger button (that's like 3 levels of obfuscation). Users aren't discovering the app commands bar in Windows 8 apps = design all new apps with a hamburger menu. Windows 10 isn't just forcing frustratingly hard to hit menu buttons on users, but it's also actively hostile against any gesture usage. As unattractive as it might be I could potentially learn to live with the overabundance of hamburger menus in every crevice and corner of the OS if there was actually support for gestures to open every one of these dumb mystery meat menus. Mind you there is no actual study that supports the idea that hiding functionality inside of hamburger menus actually increases discoverability.
    Well i like W10 but im using it on a non touch PC so for that it works well ....
    For touch users not so much, the hot corners and start should be different and more touch oriented.
    I find MS should be more consistent with the UI like the explorer window and different prompts have different designs / icons everything needs to be in modern 2.0 design language MS really needs to break the users need familiarity they already broke that with windows 8 make windows 10 the rest of the change they started and be done with it.

    The hamburger keeps the start screen clean in my opinion but things like power options, user name / picture should always be on the start screen.
    the start screen also should scroll the way it did in windows 8 but i guess they want to keep it in line with windows mobile so it scrolls up and down like that ... it should be more like windows 8 for touch mode.

    The gesture to switch apps was natural in windows 8 i agree with but the charms i don't miss.

    The thing people are missing is that this is the last version of windows so after its about .xx releases so they can fix change add remove and tweak based on our feedback HOPEFULLY.

    I don't hate windows 10 it just needs to be more unified design wise and make some more sense to touch people.
    05-31-2015 05:11 PM
  3. Joseph Avena's Avatar
    There was really nothing wrong with 8.1, the problem was people did't know how to switch from Tablet to Desktop view. I have had no issues since starting with 8.0. I do a lot of tech support especially with seniors, the tablet view is a blessing for then and makes the PC easy!!
    theefman and sketchy9 like this.
    06-01-2015 02:53 PM
  4. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Looks like MS are getting desperate to get people to install W10:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...ml#post3110491

    I think they're a bit worried you know... ;-)
    06-01-2015 04:08 PM
  5. YanivC's Avatar
    You definitely picked the right screen name man!
    06-01-2015 04:49 PM
  6. colinkiama's Avatar
    Yeah, I am in pretty much the same boat. To me it is easily the worst version of Windows I have ever used. It is doing my head in more than Vista did, when they arbitrarily decided to rename and re-order everything in Control Panel.

    Why should anyone have to go to those lengths, just to get a usable experience? That's what I hate about Linux - I don't want to have to faff about getting a usable computer, I just want to switch it on and get to work. An OS should just get the hell out of my way, not build roadblocks at every intersection to stop me from getting anywhere.
    Sounds like you need to get apple products.
    Brandon Tobias likes this.
    06-03-2015 11:08 AM
  7. swanlee's Avatar
    Everyone really should stop complaining. It's windows you can just fiddle with the settings and registries and get the old windows 8 experience back. Except the charms though, they are dead now

    So how do you make the taskbar on/off swipeable in Tablet mode? In Tablet mode you can't even autohide the taskbar anymore. Also how do you enable Edge for full screen web browsing, or enable swipe forward to scroll through apps and how do you import your Metro IE live tile bookmarks into Edge?

    These are my biggest issues with Win 10 and for me are show stoppers.
    920Walker likes this.
    06-03-2015 12:16 PM
  8. Harrie-S's Avatar
    Looks like MS are getting desperate to get people to install W10:

    http://forums.windowscentral.com/win...ml#post3110491

    I think they're a bit worried you know... ;-)
    I think you use your own "storm in a teacup" created post to keep this thread going.

    This thread was already not exceptionally focussed and on topic. But your post, turns this even more into a discussion about discussions rather than the topic at hand.
    06-03-2015 12:32 PM
  9. romo11's Avatar
    So how do you make the taskbar on/off swipeable in Tablet mode? In Tablet mode you can't even autohide the taskbar anymore. Also how do you enable Edge for full screen web browsing, or enable swipe forward to scroll through apps and how do you import your Metro IE live tile bookmarks into Edge?

    These are my biggest issues with Win 10 and for me are show stoppers.

    Why do you need to switch off the taskbar? Sorry, but I was like blind in Win8 tablet menu - no datetime info, no info about running programs etc. it is useful to have something like taskbar.
    06-03-2015 03:21 PM
  10. theefman's Avatar
    Why do you need to switch off the taskbar? Sorry, but I was like blind in Win8 tablet menu - no datetime info, no info about running programs etc. it is useful to have something like taskbar.
    Because it unnecessarily takes away screen real estate from content. You don't need to see the time/date and running programs 100% of the time (if you do probably should be on the desktop) but with a permanent taskbar you get it whether you want it or not. With Windows 8, one gesture from the left or right edge gave you the same info and then you returned to your content.
    920Walker likes this.
    06-03-2015 03:33 PM
  11. swanlee's Avatar
    Why do you need to switch off the taskbar? Sorry, but I was like blind in Win8 tablet menu - no datetime info, no info about running programs etc. it is useful to have something like taskbar.

    In Win 8 I simply swiped the charm bar to see those things. The taskbar on smaller screen tablets take up to much active screen space and does not need to be their at all times. Also with a small swipe from the left it showed me running programs. Tablets have limited screen space and don't need static desktop gui oriented taskbars, address bars, tab bars taking up valuable screen space. Win 8 worked fine allow 100% of your screen to be used for content consumption without taking up screen space using static desktop gui elements.

    I simply want the option for full screen tablet use without all these desktop gui elements hanging around taking up screen space.

    Why can't Win 10 give me a few toggle options in the settings menu for Tablet mode to allow me to have a full screen tablet experience like Win 8.1.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    06-03-2015 03:37 PM
  12. hiya15's Avatar
    OP, you may go to MS with all your issues ,but please dont ask them to change the UI back to Win 8,not that i think they will listen but because I (and maybe some more) love the new design , nope there is no logic in it , we just simply love the design ,you know the feeling when you see something and it catches your attention , no logic at all.
    Harrie-S likes this.
    06-03-2015 04:38 PM
  13. swanlee's Avatar
    Why did MS have to throw the baby out with the bathwater? Win 10 has a desktop AND Tablet mode. Their is no reason they could have just improved desktop like it is now while making Tablet mode work more like Win 8 does, or at least give us options in tablet mode that let us adjust it from default to act more like Win 8 in tablet mode.

    Desktop users could go along their marry way and never enable tablet mode options that would allow tablet users to keep a Win 8 like tablet experience.

    Allow taskbar to be swiped off or on
    Allow full screen web browsing in Edge
    Allow swipe left to scroll through open apps
    Allow metro IE tile bookmarks to be imported in Edge

    These are options that could be given to tablet users that would never affect desktop mode users and even tablet mode users could turn off or on as they wanted.

    At this point Win 8.1 is going to be like Win XP for Tablets, why would I severely downgrade my Tablet experience in Win 10?
    Last edited by swanlee; 06-03-2015 at 05:58 PM.
    06-03-2015 05:28 PM
  14. DWill22's Avatar
    I think Win 10 is good on a desktop but boy does it suck on a tablet. I was hoping they would have got it right but that's not happening.
    06-03-2015 08:24 PM
  15. sbreckbill's Avatar
    I am not to fond of it as well but not so negitive about itI tried windows build on my desktop my first gen surface pro and my phone now i understand bugs and decided to try again so on the phgone on workable and to many things did not work that i use frequent/ So only used it for 3 days and resetmy phone back to windows phone 8.1 and it going to stay that way .Now on desktop i actually had a good experience with it and removed only because i wait til the release of it and will get it on my desktop now on phone it was easy to go back used the system recovery tool and restored my phone from a backup all great desktop just reinstalled windows 8 now the problem is my surface pro as i said first gen surface pro before i did the windows ten preview i had created a recovery image on a usb thumb drive now since the preview unable to boot from that and i have done the hold volumn down get to bios did all kinda things it still goes back to ten i dont want ten on my surface and dont see me using it ever . the funny part is this micrososft soft is trying to gointo the mobile pc market with tablets and phones yet where windows functions the worse is mobile tablits and phones ipersonaly think this windows ten thing is to make the desktop users happy which at least inmy experience with it on a desktop it is great the new browser is awsome on my desktop when it gets to my windows tablet and windows phone where it lacks So is there a recovery like tool that ised my windows phone that zzap it back to where i can restore from my windows 8 recovery image
    06-03-2015 10:05 PM
  16. romo11's Avatar
    Because it unnecessarily takes away screen real estate from content. You don't need to see the time/date and running programs 100% of the time (if you do probably should be on the desktop) but with a permanent taskbar you get it whether you want it or not. With Windows 8, one gesture from the left or right edge gave you the same info and then you returned to your content.
    Yes, I need to see mentioned information 100% of time. Why I have to do gesture to see these kind of important information? Gestures are not native and easy for 90% people. To tap directly on screen is easier. Android's status bar is also always visible and who cares?
    06-04-2015 12:16 AM
  17. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    The hamburger keeps the start screen clean in my opinion but things like power options, user name / picture should always be on the start screen.
    User name/picture? I don't understand why that is there at all. Do you find yourself forgetting who you are and what you look like?
    I don't hate windows 10 it just needs to be more unified design wise and make some more sense to touch people.
    To me that is the problem we have - they are trying to unify the design when the needs of desktop users and touch users don't really allow for that. e.g. The solution to the problems of the Start Menu stuff in Tablet Mode isn't to hide it inside a hamburger menu, it is to find something else that works better. Ditto for leaving the Taskbar exposed in Tablet Mode. The best/worst example, though, is how badly they have screwed the pooch with All Apps. It is so bad now that they have added an extra navigation layer in an attempt to make it work, when the way it works in 8.1 is so much better and requires nothing like that.

    Sounds like you need to get apple products.
    Why? They are even worse. What I am concerned about is that Microsoft are heading in that same direction, arbitrarily deciding how we all should be working and taking out anything that doesn't conform to their view.

    Why do you need to switch off the taskbar? Sorry, but I was like blind in Win8 tablet menu - no datetime info, no info about running programs etc. it is useful to have something like taskbar.
    Because every time I pick my tablet up, I either close something or launch something unintentionally. I tried moving it to one side but it synced that change to my laptop, which is unacceptable. It is in the way all the time on my tablet and I just don't want it there.

    Anyway, I am going to start a new thread tomorrow (I have to make some mock-ups first) with some positive ideas on how to fix things. I will call it "Windows 10 Has Gone Too Far" and in it I will attempt to offer an alternative vision that I think would make the greatest number of people happy. I realise it 's probably too late now but it will make me feel a lot better (which is all I care about, obviously).
    Last edited by Motor_Mouth; 06-04-2015 at 12:59 AM.
    920Walker likes this.
    06-04-2015 12:46 AM
  18. Loc Ngo's Avatar
    I absolutely love the charm bar. It is elegant and convenient to use in tablet mode. But then having separate app settings (swipe down or up from the bottom corners and from the app's own charm bar) might be confusing to some people. Anyway, it took me 1 minute to get used to it but I don't know about others. And also, it's meaningless in desktop mode. I think what MS needs to do is to decide which features are good for each mode, then separate them by making them only functional for the respective mode (for instance: charmbar for tablet, taskbar for desktop), while still provide a smooth and seamless way to switch between the two modes.
    I think the problem with MS is that the designers are trying so hard to unify the user experience on every Windows device out there, hence the taskbar in tablet mode, which I think is ugly and does not provide any mandatory function other than a place to harbour Cortana. Like someone mentioned before, an always visible taskbar in tablet mode takes up the screen's real estate and distracts people from contents. Just because on a Windows phone, we have three buttons which are back, windows and search (Cortana) doesn't mean on a Windows tablet, we have to have the same thing. They are different devices and used in different scenarios. That's why a phone is called a phone and a tablet is called a tablet. Providing a seamless experience between devices, imho, is to make them work well together not make every single thing of them akin. They seem to be trying hard to imitate Apple, thinking that because an iPad and iPhone have the same OS, function in the same way, they have to do it too. But really, what make Apple's user experience deceptively great is that their devices work excellently with each other within the eco-system.
    P/s: It's a bit sad for me to see that even in Windows 8.1, which is a legible MS operating system, the word Cortana is recognised as a spelling mistake.
    06-04-2015 01:14 AM
  19. VARUNGUPTA16061992's Avatar
    For desktop also I liked charms and right side pane for options.. It was unique n one pane for all. Full screen start and apps.. Multitasking with snap. Problem is ppl are not ready to leave desktop n traditional way to create shortcuts. Today also desktop is dumping ground... Everything on desktop...u Can desktop filled up. With Windows 8 desktop n modern two lands which don't interact with each other... Win10 is blend of two with desktop preference
    06-04-2015 02:36 AM
  20. emperor_skull's Avatar
    I love windows 10
    06-04-2015 02:53 AM
  21. TechFreak1's Avatar

    No, it wasn't. It was in the Charms Bar, which is where you go to do stuff in Win8. You'd discover it the first time you wanted to connect to Wi-Fi or hook up a second monitor or do anything else. Or, as has been the case for more than a decade, you could simply use the power button on your PC to shut down.
    Yes, it was - To detail what you conveniently dismissed as "in the charms bar" - Charms -> Settings Charm -> Power -> Shut Down.



    Extract fromHow to Shut Down Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 In Just One Click

    Where Windows 7 displays its power button in a prominent place on its Start Menu, both Windows and the new Windows 8.1 make you perform several actions just to turn your computer off and theyre all buried. To get to the power button in Windows 8, you must pull out the Charms menu, click the Settings charm, click the Power button and then select Shutdown or Restart.
    06-04-2015 03:11 AM
  22. AndyCalling's Avatar
    I like the charms bar, it is universal and gives the same experience for search and share etc. across all apps. I had imagined that possibly in W10 we could move the task bar to the right, increase the icon size to suit touch, remove the running tasks and add third party shortcuts to share and search etc. I had heard it was being made swipeable. Now I hear we can't even hide it? Why ever not?

    I don't know, I keep hearing how the Win8 touch excellence is being brought back and that things are changing, then I find out the reverse is true. Why don't MS just come clean and admit there will be one OS spur for touch (Win8) and one for desktop because that seems to be the developing reality. It's all the instance that they are sorting it followed by the disappointment of discovering it is hollow.

    I wanted to love W10, still do, but it has to be a better experience across all my devices for me to press the upgrade button. Not just for non-touch stuff. Currently W10 seems fine for my old, non-touch netbook but on modern devices it still can't compete with Win8 and the more they mess with it the worse it seems to get.

    Yet we know that MS is going to have to support touch first in future iterations of Windows. We know this must be a temporary dial back to bring legacy device users in to the fold. Why the pretence that this is somehow a sustainable direction to take Windows in? Who do MS think they are fooling?
    VARUNGUPTA16061992 likes this.
    06-04-2015 07:24 AM
  23. DavidinCT's Avatar
    If you HATE Windows 10 then DONT use it. Use the hashtag on twitter #SayNoToWindows10

    I am because of the lack of Windows Media Center....
    06-04-2015 07:57 AM
  24. AndyCalling's Avatar
    If you HATE Windows 10 then DONT use it. Use the hashtag on twitter #SayNoToWindows10

    I am because of the lack of Windows Media Center....
    I'm not much of a twitterer, but of course I won't use it until it offers a better user experience across all devices than W8. That would only make sense for people who only have non-touch devices.

    Loss of WMC will be hard. It is not the deciding factor for me, but it is a thing. Once there is a suitable version of Windows to upgrade to I will be attempting to transfer WMC from my W8 install in a manual fashion. It might work, have you tried it? I would also be interested in transferring some of the older apps to retain horizontal scrolling for use on wide screen devices where portrait oriented vertical scrolling methods aren't so hot. Glad I've not waited for a W10 laptop, they'll look strange if they go back to 5:4 screen dimensions to fit better with W10. They'll be even weirder if they keep to widescreen when W10 is moving to portrait focussed design.
    Harrie-S likes this.
    06-04-2015 11:51 AM
  25. DavidinCT's Avatar
    I'm not much of a twitterer, but of course I won't use it until it offers a better user experience across all devices than W8. That would only make sense for people who only have non-touch devices.

    Loss of WMC will be hard. It is not the deciding factor for me, but it is a thing. Once there is a suitable version of Windows to upgrade to I will be attempting to transfer WMC from my W8 install in a manual fashion. It might work, have you tried it? I would also be interested in transferring some of the older apps to retain horizontal scrolling for use on wide screen devices where portrait oriented vertical scrolling methods aren't so hot. Glad I've not waited for a W10 laptop, they'll look strange if they go back to 5:4 screen dimensions to fit better with W10. They'll be even weirder if they keep to widescreen when W10 is moving to portrait focussed design.
    Actually, I find that I like twitter better that Facebook but, to each their own. If you get on twitter, look me up and re-tweet my tweets on the subject (see my link in my sig)

    I like your thought process to "copy" over to Windows 10 but, I personally tried it, check this thread it out, and if you can help it would be great.

    View topic - Possible to port WMC from Win10 Preview builds to Final?

    WMC cant be just "copied over" when you put in your key, it's done authorized at the kernel level, So if you were to get everything copied over, it will give an error about not being able to run. Believe me, I have been trying (see the thread above with details)

    Trust me, I wish it was that easy...
    06-04-2015 01:33 PM
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