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  1. excalibur1814's Avatar
    Sure, yeah, I get that some don't like change but maybe they should have stayed on Windows 7! Heck stay on XP if you like.

    As it stands, as long as they improve the Touch options, I'm liking what's going on.

    Also looking forward to the phone aspect of W10
    DavidinCT, Stormdrunk and Makm like this.
    05-20-2015 09:20 AM
  2. a5cent's Avatar
    Sure, yeah, I get that some don't like change but maybe they should have stayed on Windows 7! Heck stay on XP if you like.
    In that case you don't understand any of what you think you understand. Do some more reading and maybe you'll learn what the whole hubub is really about. 😌
    I think it's fine to like or dislike the direction the W10 UI is heading. None of us have all the information to draw any definitive conclusions, so with the proper amount of speculation, good arguments can be made for both sides.
    The whole "dislikes change" angle is the poorest argument out there, and only made by those unwilling or incapable of understanding the more complicated and nuanced arguments.
    theefman and nohra like this.
    05-20-2015 09:43 AM
  3. micahbrown76's Avatar
    Well, I won't say that the "hate it because of change" argument is invalid - we are a culture that really doesn't like change. I work in IT and whenever we change anything on the client side there's a massive uproar. "Why can't it just be what we've always used?" "I don't understand how this works!" "Why did you have to change this?" It's an endless cacophony of agony over something as simple as the color of a button or a placement of a field in a oft used piece of software.

    People hate change.

    That's not to say that the nuanced arguments aren't also (and more) valid, but the majority of the population is going to be looking at this and saying "Different!" and following that up with "I love it" or "I frelling HATE it" without any thought as to the nuance of why.
    05-20-2015 12:22 PM
  4. a5cent's Avatar
    Well, I won't say that the "hate it because of change" argument is invalid - we are a culture that really doesn't like change. I work in IT and whenever we change anything on the client side there's a massive uproar. "Why can't it just be what we've always used?" "I don't understand how this works!" "Why did you have to change this?" It's an endless cacophony of agony over something as simple as the color of a button or a placement of a field in a oft used piece of software.

    People hate change.
    No. This is true of the average Joe. It's completely invalid for the type of people reading and commenting on this site!

    The evolution of the W10M UI is discussed ONLY by tech enthusiasts. So far I have never met a tech enthusiast who'd prefer the evolution of tech to stagnate. In fact, AFAIK, everyone on this site who has ever expressed dislike for the W10M UI has also expressed the need for Metro to evolve. They just want Metro to evolve in a DIFFERENT DIRECTION. In contrast, people who DISLIKE CHANGE don't want any evolution at all!

    So, in summary, we now have three ways to mistakenly assume the "dislikes change" argument carries any weight in this context:

    a) not KNOWING the arguments being made for or against W10M's UI (and which of them are speculative).

    b) not UNDERSTANDING the arguments being made for or against W10M's UI

    c) incorrectly drawing parallels between the enthusiasts on this site and the general population (because the later tends to be averse to most change in the tech industry). The exact opposite statement would be a lot more correct, namely that nobody on the planet is as interested in changes being made to WP, than the people on this site and sites like it.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-20-2015 at 06:39 PM.
    theefman likes this.
    05-20-2015 06:19 PM
  5. astondg's Avatar
    No. This is true of the average Joe. It's completely invalid for the type of people reading and commenting on this site!
    I can't comment on the people who use this site but I can say that I work in IT, I'm a software developer, and it always blows my mind that in this industry there are a huge number of people who hate change. Plenty of the poor feedback I heard, in my job, about Windows 8's Modern interface came from network admins and other software devs.
    05-20-2015 07:05 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    ^ I'm also a software engineer, and I agree that people who work in IT related fields aren't necessarily enthusiasts. Few people on this site have technical degrees, but almost all are enthusiasts regardless. The two aren't related.

    People who rely on specific products to get a job done tend to want those products to remain stable and familiar (less change). Whether a person works in IT or not is secondary.

    All humans tend to generally value stability and familiarity, we just don't all seek it in the same places.

    The same person can also harbor different views of change at the same time, e.g. a mobile app developer may be a Windows OS enthusiast and be very welcoming of new features and UI changes, whereas that same person may be very averse to changes made to MS' project management and source code change tracking tools.

    None of the regulars on this site want the evolution of WP to slow down however... this is clearly evidenced by how often people here mock MS whenever something is "coming soon". For people on this site, change "coming soon" is never soon enough....

    Plenty of the poor feedback I heard, in my job, about Windows 8's Modern interface came from network admins and other software devs.
    Let's also be honest that change isn't unconditionally a good thing.

    W8 really did have a lot of UI problems. It was an unfinished product that didn't get fixed until W8.1, at which point W8's reputation was irreparably damaged.

    Change can be both bad and good. It must be good to overcome the resistance humans can be counted on to put up.
    Last edited by a5cent; 05-20-2015 at 11:42 PM.
    Guytronic likes this.
    05-20-2015 07:27 PM
  7. cool8man's Avatar
    I love change. I hate Windows 10. Windows 8 was a huge change from 7 and I liked it a lot. Android would be a huge change from Windows 8.1, but I could probably use it just fine on my tablet since it was designed first and foremost for touch screen. Windows 10 is a keyboard and mouse OS that doesn't work well at all on touch screens. That is why I hate it. The new MSN burger-fied apps are not designed to be read on tablets like a digital magazine, they're designed for keyboard and mouse and act like a web browser page. That's not about hating change. I can get a web browser experience by loading a web browser page, I can't get the Windows 8.1 app experience from anything other than those apps that were originally designed for tablets.
    Motor_Mouth and Kram Sacul like this.
    05-20-2015 09:16 PM
  8. HoosierDaddy's Avatar
    People hate change.
    You've obviously never paid for that pizza with what fell between the cushions.
    Guytronic, nohra and a5cent like this.
    05-21-2015 09:13 AM
  9. nohra's Avatar
    The whole "dislikes change" angle is the poorest argument out there, and only made by those unwilling or incapable of understanding the more complicated and nuanced arguments.
    Glad I'm not the only one who is tired of the old "anyone who doesn't like the new version just hates change and is unable to adapt" argument. We had to hear that all through Windows 8 and I'm sure it won't stop (although I'm hoping W10 will blend enough features from W7 and W8 to make both groups more-or-less satisfied on some level).

    Like you said, it is not as simple as someone not liking change. Users like change when it is clear how a change will benefit them. Otherwise, adoption is going to take a lot longer as people feel forced to relearn things that were just natural habit.

    I am looking forward to being able to go from W7 to W10 at work and being able to skip 8 there. Having W8.1 on my home 2-in-1 is nice, but I can't imagine having to work on it.
    a5cent likes this.
    05-21-2015 03:20 PM
  10. Pierre Blackwell's Avatar
    I would surmise that people are going to gravitate to what they're familiar with and comfortable with. What attracted you to Windows phone in the first place, and are those things still existent to keep you using it? That's the real question. I know for me it was all about the live tiles, first and foremost. They look aesthetically better then iOS or any rendition of Android. It's cleaner, and has a more complete presentation. Windows 10 still embraces that. I like the fact they allow you to choose your background instead of infusing the tiles into your background. The swipe, pivot, panoramic with the big letters were all nice compliments but weren't elements of the OS that I needed. Until Windows 10 anything is launched, we can't truly evaluate the extent of the OS as a fully functioning OS. Understanding the one OS concept is a big hurdle. I like how MSFT is replicating the PC/tablet/phone desktops. I like the look of the new Office suite, and the MSN apps. If you noticed they already made changes to the Outlook app, and moved some navigation buttons to the bottom of the screen. I see that continuing to happen. I like the addition of the voice recorder. Continuum is an amazing concept, and will truly merge the PC and mobile world, however we still need to see a full display of that. Whether you like Windows 10 or not isn't the problem, because MSFT is going to bank it's existence on it, so if you're not onboard you might want to start looking at moving to another OS.
    05-21-2015 07:04 PM
  11. Rohn59's Avatar
    Well said! I concur.
    05-21-2015 07:18 PM
  12. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    Sure, yeah, I get that some don't like change but maybe they should have stayed on Windows 7! Heck stay on XP if you like.
    Assuming that is aimed at me, as the author of the I hate Windows 10 thread, I'd point out that I installed Win8 on the very first day the first public preview was available and absolutely loved it from the first minute I used it. It fixed pretty much every issue I had with W7 in the best, most comprehensive way possible, whilst adding a whole heap of new functionality that was surprisingly handy, whilst also being beautiful, both to look at and interact with.

    I live for change but change needs to make sense and, in the case of something like an operating system, it needs to be an improvement. What concerns me is that too much in W10 seems to be for the sake of placating those with a fear of change and, in so doing, it makes the OS itself measurably worse. e.g. There is no metric whereby anyone can say that the way you interact with "All Apps" in W10 is not considerably worse than it is in W8. Why? Simply because scrolling endlessly through a single column of installed application icons is nowhere near as efficient as seeing them all laid out on a single page (in the same order they are in W10).
    As it stands, as long as they improve the Touch options, I'm liking what's going on.
    What do you like about it? In what ways do you think it is an improvement over Windows 8/8.1? There is no point at all in telling anyone how you feel about it if you can't tell us all why you feel that way. It just makes you look like a vacuous, pathetic fanboi.
    Also looking forward to the phone aspect of W10
    Agreed. W10 for phones is looking like it will actually be a big improvement because, as Win8 did on PCs, it is addressing the real issues of the OS, not of the marketing dept.
    Last edited by Motor_Mouth; 05-21-2015 at 07:37 PM.
    05-21-2015 07:21 PM
  13. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    I know for me it was all about the live tiles, first and foremost. They look aesthetically better then iOS or any rendition of Android. It's cleaner, and has a more complete presentation.... The swipe, pivot, panoramic with the big letters were all nice compliments but weren't elements of the OS that I needed.
    I'm the complete opposite. I don't get much from Live Tiles but I find the "swipe, pivot, panoramic thing to be far more elegant, intuitive and inviting than any other OS paradigm I have ever used (and I have used some pretty out there Linux window managers).

    To be fair, though, I don't think it all translates to large screens but things like horizontal scrolling were a revelation to me when I installed the first Win8 Preview build, simply because they make so much better use of a landscape oriented display.
    920Walker likes this.
    05-21-2015 07:49 PM
  14. Spectrum90's Avatar
    I like Windows 10.
    DavidinCT likes this.
    05-21-2015 10:04 PM
  15. Alfa Kapa's Avatar
    Sure, yeah, I get that some don't like change but maybe they should have stayed on Windows 7! Heck stay on XP if you like.

    As it stands, as long as they improve the Touch options, I'm liking what's going on.

    Also looking forward to the phone aspect of W10
    I absolutely agree !
    The desktop UI is turning out to be really slick and timeless. Windows 8 should feel immature after W10 hits consumers.
    And in my opinion moving to appx browser (Edge) and still being able to outperform almost every already established browser out there, is a bold move nobody even thought of untill now.
    I feel like W10 is destined to be a winner OS for almost everyone (exept the once that hate changes).

    Also W10 mobile gains huge advantages by all this, no one ever thought it would, like apps, consistancy, even greater communication with our desktops (or should I say W10 devices in general), speed and cleanliness.
    Just download the new UAP MSN apps and you will see all the above mentioned and on top of that, in a prereleased OS without optimizations!!

    For the people judging the mobile UI being all over the place, take a look at the preview releases of XP, vista, W7 and W8 and you will see that the final design changes on rtm.

    I never thought I would say that for MS, but GREAT JOB this far !!
    05-22-2015 02:56 AM
  16. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    No. This is true of the average Joe. It's completely invalid for the type of people reading and commenting on this site!

    The evolution of the W10M UI is discussed ONLY by tech enthusiasts. So far I have never met a tech enthusiast who'd prefer the evolution of tech to stagnate. In fact, AFAIK, everyone on this site who has ever expressed dislike for the W10M UI has also expressed the need for Metro to evolve. They just want Metro to evolve in a DIFFERENT DIRECTION. In contrast, people who DISLIKE CHANGE don't want any evolution at all!

    So, in summary, we now have three ways to mistakenly assume the "dislikes change" argument carries any weight in this context:

    a) not KNOWING the arguments being made for or against W10M's UI (and which of them are speculative).

    b) not UNDERSTANDING the arguments being made for or against W10M's UI

    c) incorrectly drawing parallels between the enthusiasts on this site and the general population (because the later tends to be averse to most change in the tech industry). The exact opposite statement would be a lot more correct, namely that nobody on the planet is as interested in changes being made to WP, than the people on this site and sites like it.
    You are aware that the average techie is considerably higher on the autistic spectrum, and thus naturally less tolerant of change?

    People hate change, and as I've lurked around the net ESPECIALLY techies! See windows 8 as an example, or iOS 7.....and I could go on.
    05-22-2015 07:04 AM
  17. Motor_Mouth's Avatar
    I like Windows 10.
    Who cares? If you can't tell us what you like about it, please don't waste our time and yours with useless posts like that.
    05-24-2015 01:30 AM
  18. hiya15's Avatar
    Well, I won't say that the "hate it because of change" argument is invalid - we are a culture that really doesn't like change. I work in IT and whenever we change anything on the client side there's a massive uproar. "Why can't it just be what we've always used?" "I don't understand how this works!" "Why did you have to change this?" It's an endless cacophony of agony over something as simple as the color of a button or a placement of a field in a oft used piece of software.

    People hate change.

    That's not to say that the nuanced arguments aren't also (and more) valid, but the majority of the population is going to be looking at this and saying "Different!" and following that up with "I love it" or "I frelling HATE it" without any thought as to the nuance of why.

    And MS isn't going to change anything . Some people hate some people love they already must have considered it before making these changes.

    I love changes though :)
    05-24-2015 07:08 AM
  19. excalibur1814's Avatar
    Yes this was ONLY created to present the positive angle for Windows 10. We DO have a 'I Absolutely HATE Windows 10' thread so I created the opposite.

    Either way it's FAR too early to even make a decision on whether you HATE or LOVE Win10. I like balance and even if you DO hate something surely, being rational, you can at least admit that others might like it.

    After all, when all is said and done, it's not ALL about ME, YOU, OR one single person.


    P.s. I prefer to be positive about things where possible.

    P.P.s A LOT of people don't know if they like something until they're TOLD that it's good.
    Last edited by excalibur1814; 05-27-2015 at 05:29 AM.
    05-27-2015 05:12 AM
  20. excalibur1814's Avatar
    Short story:

    Many years back, while working at Dixons over here in the U.K. (Electrical retail store), we had a great BIG DVD display as that was starting to push into the mainstream. It featured video from the latest blockbuster movies, the usual demonstrations etc, with MANY people stating that it looked glorious, clear, much better than VHS tape etc.

    The demo was running from a VHS tape hidden under the display.

    The general public are oblivious to things and, at the drop of a hat, WILL accept change and work with it. Example: Mobile phone operating systems... they soon get to grips with their shiny new toy. When Windows 8 arrived for testing I, honestly, HATED it. It was stupid, idiotic, silly, until I actually sat there with an open mind trying to see what improvements it could bring to MY working day. Others within the company had already read negative reviews and their opinions were forming BEFORE even using the software.

    I realised that I really should, as it's my job, approach new things with an open mind. I'm not saying that people aren't doing that, I'm actually trying to say that there's nothing to actually HATE about Windows 10 especially seeing as it's not even finished yet.

    Windows 10, to me, equals Windows 7 with the Touch elements reduced a little. Anyway the SCREAMERS and haters will always have a louder voice. Always.


    P.s. I really do like Windows 8.1. After getting to grips, which took literally a few minutes of trying, I realised that it's sensible with the Modern UI being a simple place to slap shortcuts.
    920Walker likes this.
    05-27-2015 05:37 AM
  21. excalibur1814's Avatar
    I like Windows 10.
    So do I. Thanks for letting us know dude.
    05-27-2015 05:38 AM

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