06-06-2015 07:17 AM
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  1. AndyCalling's Avatar
    I have pop-up blocker turned on, all the web safety features that come with Windows, Windows Defender and Windows firewall turned on, and STILL this adware sneaks on to my PC? Have MS gone the Lenovo route? It's this kind of approach, forcing W10 on people, that makes me annoyed about Win10 and the general 'lack of choice' direction it's going in. If you really and truly feel you need to resort to adware to get people to take up W10, Microsoft, then what's the harm in adding a 'No thank you, please bog off and stop pestering me with ads' option, hmmm? Or at least allow Windows Defender to clean it out. It's supposed to be able to remove adware, and it can't even find the stuff Microsoft's written? How poor must Defender be at finding adware that's actually trying to get around it?

    I've uninstalled the darn thing of course. I'm not getting forced into a reservation for anyone. My choice, if you get it right at some point MS. Not before, and looking at it right now not for some time. I don't appreciate your attempts to strong-arm me MS. It feels very Google.
    Yazen likes this.
    06-01-2015 04:03 PM
  2. theefman's Avatar
    Ooooh, you're going to get it now!
    AndyCalling and arjunan like this.
    06-01-2015 04:05 PM
  3. AndyCalling's Avatar
    06-01-2015 04:11 PM
  4. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    I have pop-up blocker turned on, all the web safety features that come with Windows, Windows Defender and Windows firewall turned on, and STILL this adware sneaks on to my PC? Have MS gone the Lenovo route? It's this kind of approach, forcing W10 on people, that makes me annoyed about Win10 and the general 'lack of choice' direction it's going in. If you really and truly feel you need to resort to adware to get people to take up W10, Microsoft, then what's the harm in adding a 'No thank you, please bog off and stop pestering me with ads' option, hmmm? Or at least allow Windows Defender to clean it out. It's supposed to be able to remove adware, and it can't even find the stuff Microsoft's written? How poor must Defender be at finding adware that's actually trying to get around it?

    I've uninstalled the darn thing of course. I'm not getting forced into a reservation for anyone. My choice, if you get it right at some point MS. Not before, and looking at it right now not for some time. I don't appreciate your attempts to strong-arm me MS. It feels very Google.
    Just close the darn box! Surely you have bigger things in life to be concerned about!?!

    For most this will be helpful, most don't frequent tech forums or the like, most simply use the computer and could sure use a simple way to upgrade to the latest most secure software.
    Harrie-S, arjunan, hagjohn and 1 others like this.
    06-01-2015 04:20 PM
  5. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Just close the darn box! Surely you have bigger things in life to be concerned about!?!

    For most this will be helpful, most don't frequent tech forums or the like, most simply use the computer and could sure use a simple way to upgrade to the latest most secure software.
    And the lack of a 'bog off' option? Not simply a charitable turn to help the technologically challenged, I think. There are many ways to advertise, and many ways to make upgrade easy. Adware is not one of them.

    I can be peeved about many things simultaneously, from the pharmaceutical industry's attempts to hold the world to ransom over antibiotics to the lack of sugar in my tea. With the advantage of a human brain, having one thought does not preclude my having another.
    06-01-2015 04:45 PM
  6. mj0's Avatar
    It "sneaked" onto your system because it came disguised as Windows update that was optional first and has now changed status to "recommended", meaning it'll automatically install on all systems that have automatic Windows updates enabled. And I absolutely agree with you on this one from an ethical point of view - I don't think it's right for Microsoft to advertise their new OS via adware no matter whether or not it's a free upgrade.

    The solution is simple: disable automatic Windows updates, uninstall the update named KB3035583, then search for updates and block this one (hide update). Don't forget to reenable automatic updates afterwards.
    Harrie-S and Kevin Rush like this.
    06-02-2015 01:21 AM
  7. Nam3d's Avatar
    I find it the opposite, why do I have to reserve windows 10. I set my settings to automatically update, just update my windows when due, annoying me with the task to reserve it myself.
    Harrie-S and jlzimmerman like this.
    06-02-2015 03:28 AM
  8. lexrsk's Avatar
    I don't appreciate your attempts to strong-arm me MS. It feels very Google.
    You chose to install the update that provides you the option for the free upgrade, either when you set up windows updates on your PC or by manually selecting to install the update. And by doing so you elected to be notified that the free upgrade is available to you.

    If there is anybody at fault here, it is you for not reading the release notes for the update.
    06-02-2015 05:27 AM
  9. Larry Amato's Avatar
    Bill Gates is not going to be Happy...!!!
    AndyCalling likes this.
    06-02-2015 05:41 AM
  10. AndyCalling's Avatar
    You chose to install the update that provides you the option for the free upgrade, either when you set up windows updates on your PC or by manually selecting to install the update. And by doing so you elected to be notified that the free upgrade is available to you.

    If there is anybody at fault here, it is you for not reading the release notes for the update.
    The description for KB3035583 doesn't even sound like the adware it is. MS make it sound like an essential patch to keep Windows Update working correctly. It doesn't (or certainly didn't) mention W10 at all and never stated it was designed to pester customers until they capitulate and pre-register. It's well shady. Good job we have WC to keep us informed. Without it this would have been a pita to track down. Blaming the customer for Microsoft's obfuscation is not, in my opinion, a constructive approach.
    theefman likes this.
    06-02-2015 05:49 AM
  11. coolqf's Avatar
    They're taking the direction of Apple and Chrome OS. While their may be hiccups, in the long-run this is showing to be more beneficial. Such as for security reasons. As an example, OS X's most used OS right now is the latest, 10.10. The same with iOS. There's a great adoption rate to newer OSes. In contrast, for Windows, the most used OS is still Win7.

    Considering that Win7 mainstream support already end it... This is a bit serious. Win8.1, without Update 1, also has limited update until you get Update 1... Etc. This is more of an industry trend and consumer demand than an MS trend (they're just playing catch up). As an example, ChromeOS already makes 25% of laptop sales. Yikes for MS!
    06-02-2015 06:24 AM
  12. areithropos's Avatar
    By my understanding: This "adware" is simply a subtle reminder than Microsoft is serious with focusing their workforce on projects that are not outdated or too old to get maintained much longer.

    It would have been nice to have an easier way to remove this program or to announce it more clearly but that are mistakes many companies are doing.
    06-02-2015 06:55 AM
  13. AndyCalling's Avatar
    They're taking the direction of Apple and Chrome OS. While their may be hiccups, in the long-run this is showing to be more beneficial. Such as for security reasons. As an example, OS X's most used OS right now is the latest, 10.10. The same with iOS. There's a great adoption rate to newer OSes. In contrast, for Windows, the most used OS is still Win7.

    Considering that Win7 mainstream support already end it... This is a bit serious. Win8.1, without Update 1, also has limited update until you get Update 1... Etc. This is more of an industry trend and consumer demand than an MS trend (they're just playing catch up). As an example, ChromeOS already makes 25% of laptop sales. Yikes for MS!
    Choice is not a problem, it is a solution.
    06-02-2015 06:56 AM
  14. AndyCalling's Avatar
    By my understanding: This "adware" is simply a subtle reminder than Microsoft is serious with focusing their workforce on projects that are not outdated or too old to get maintained much longer.

    It would have been nice to have an easier way to remove this program or to announce it more clearly but that are mistakes many companies are doing.
    It's not subtle, not subtle in the slightest. Subtle would be fine. These are not 'mistakes' as it is obvious that people don't enjoy adware. This is a tactic for the benefit of the company over the customers. A remove option was obviously a requisite in a non-adware approach. These adware techniques are hardly new and are well understood, this was an intentional move by MS. As I say, very Google. The fact that other companies are doing this does not make it more acceptable.

    I remember Win7 being advertised as 'Your Windows' because it was designed based on user input and requirements. With Win10, MS appears to be serious about staging a fight back.
    06-02-2015 07:03 AM
  15. tgp's Avatar
    Judging from what I've experienced working with PC-using consumers, most will ignore the notification. I sit down at customers' computers a lot, and 9 times out of 10 there's a big list of updates waiting, and also updates outside of Windows Updates such as Java and Adobe Flash.

    I agree that this one shouldn't be veiled as a regular Windows Update. Yes, it's technically our fault for choosing to install it, but who reads the changelog of each update in the long list? Microsoft knows that! They take advantage of it. And the automatic 3GB download when W10 is available? It doesn't seem quite right to me.

    I removed KB3035583 from my laptop. I plan to install Windows 10 as soon as it's available, but I plan to make an image of my hard drive before I do. I do not want the extra 3GB on it.
    theefman likes this.
    06-02-2015 07:08 AM
  16. AndyCalling's Avatar
    I read the update description before installing. No mention of W10 or the 'upgrade' pre-load. Certainly no mention of pestering pop-ups.

    More good reasons NEVER to turn on auto-update in Windows. Oh, but in W10 they want to move the option to block Windows Update from forcing future updates off to router level so making it a right pain to access. I'm supposed to control Windows Update by blocking addresses on the router? How convenient. And I suppose when we pick up a nasty from MS folk on WC will point out we gave it permission by setting our routers to allow Windows Update through, so the user's to blame? Seems like a lot to ask.

    I don't think this issue is a one off. It is full of the Windows 10 spirit, I fear. I don't want to be constantly wondering what MS are trying to sneak past me, that's the problem Google developed.
    06-02-2015 07:18 AM
  17. Harrie-S's Avatar
    And the lack of a 'bog off' option? Not simply a charitable turn to help the technologically challenged, I think. There are many ways to advertise, and many ways to make upgrade easy. Adware is not one of them.
    .
    Indeed there are many ways.
    If Microsoft (or who ever) used another way there still would be people who would not agree with that other way.
    But it is very good that people can and do disagree.
    However the way how to express it is a separate issue.
    Using nearly only (far fetched / overdone) arguments to voice a different opinion provokes (often) only similar opposite opinions.
    And before you known it the point is lost but the (non) arguments keep on going.
    06-02-2015 07:21 AM
  18. Spectrum90's Avatar
    It's the right thing to do. Windows has to inform its users that the update is coming and make the process as easy as possible.
    Harrie-S likes this.
    06-02-2015 07:24 AM
  19. AndyCalling's Avatar
    Indeed there are many ways.
    If Microsoft (or who ever) used another way there still would be people who would not agree with that other way.
    But it is very good that people can and do disagree.
    However the way how to express it is a separate issue.
    Using nearly only (far fetched / overdone) arguments to voice a different opinion provokes (often) only similar opposite opinions.
    And before you known it the point is lost but the (non) arguments keep on going.
    These arguments are not far fetched, the issues are demonstrably happening now. This is exactly the path Google went down and the result is the need to constantly consider what the company is trying to sneak past the customer. Not something I appreciate. You think I should?

    This thread has been exceptionally focussed and on topic. Until your post, attempting to turn this into a discussion about discussions rather than the topic at hand.
    Kram Sacul likes this.
    06-02-2015 07:27 AM
  20. AndyCalling's Avatar
    It's the right thing to do. Windows has to inform its users that the update is coming and make the process as easy as possible.
    Inform, yes. Force, no. There is a line between these two positions and it is not a particularly fine one. I'm not saying don't tell anyone about W10, I'm not saying it should be made tough to install. I'm just saying don't fight customers for making up their own minds.
    06-02-2015 07:31 AM
  21. areithropos's Avatar
    It's not subtle, not subtle in the slightest. Subtle would be fine. These are not 'mistakes' as it is obvious that people don't enjoy adware. This is a tactic for the benefit of the company over the customers. ... The fact that other companies are doing this does not make it more acceptable.

    I remember Win7 being advertised as 'Your Windows' because it was designed based on user input and requirements. With Win10, MS appears to be serious about staging a fight back.
    A clarification: I called it subtle because they could have blatantly said: Upgrade or be gone, we will not much longer support this old thing you use as OS.

    I called it a mistake because their doing was not wise as much as I can understand that they want to keep some things hidden as to prevent some users from meddling too much with the system.

    And lastly, there was plenty of opportunity to give some input for the new Windows; but there is the global wish to make Windows more plain and clean and to keep every symbol simple and I think that is the point where Microsoft wants to make their own thing to distinguish their product from others in a way they want to. (But still they took user feedback into their consideration to a certain degree.)
    Harrie-S likes this.
    06-02-2015 07:32 AM
  22. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Inform, yes. Force, no. There is a line between these two positions and it is not a particularly fine one. I'm not saying don't tell anyone about W10, I'm not saying it should be made tough to install. I'm just saying don't fight customers for making up their own minds.
    It's not being forced. The user has to consent to pre-download the update and then again to install it.
    06-02-2015 07:39 AM
  23. AndyCalling's Avatar
    A clarification: I called it subtle because they could have blatantly said: Upgrade or be gone, we will not much longer support this old thing you use as OS.

    I called it a mistake because their doing was not wise as much as I can understand that they want to keep some things hidden as to prevent some users from meddling too much with the system.

    And lastly, there was plenty of opportunity to give some input for the new Windows; but there is the global wish to make Windows more plain and clean and to keep every symbol simple and I think that is the point where Microsoft wants to make their own thing to distinguish their product from others in a way they want to. (But still they took user feedback into their consideration to a certain degree.)
    It was subtle on the way that a punch in the face is more subtle that a revolver to the guts. Still not welcome.

    I see your meaning. I agree, it is a big mistake for MS to go the Google route.

    They may be seeking feedback, but my point is that they are trying to remove control from the end user and pull it back towards Redmond. This issue is an example, the new W10 forced Windows Updates system is another. The intentional obfuscation in this process says it all.
    06-02-2015 07:43 AM
  24. AndyCalling's Avatar
    It's not being forced. The user has to consent to pre-download the update and then again to install it.
    But if you don't pre-register you get hassled adware style until you do, or until you find a way to remove the offending adware with helpful third-party assistance from people like WC. That is a degree of force that I find offensive.
    06-02-2015 07:45 AM
  25. hiya15's Avatar
    You can remove this particular update , so its not kinda forcing ,you know.
    tgp and 920Walker like this.
    06-02-2015 07:47 AM
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